Winchester Sound

[megagoth1702 19]

I dont like it. It's too quiet, its not powerful and raw at all.

I just sat down for a few mins and made this. Not tested in game yet, no idea how its gonna sound there. But probably better than the current sample.

Feel free to get this into the game.

Original winchester.

https://rapidshare.com/files/2855291026/shotgun_1.wav

My version of it.

https://rapidshare.com/files/1342170820/winchester4.mp3

[Szperacz 0]

Upload it on youtube or somewhere else so we can hear it online.

I agree that winchester sound is wrong.

[Krobar 75]

Its not very loud.

[rocket 16567]

I would need to know the source of the sound and licensing before I could use it.

What might shock you is that I actually PAID for the current sound! Can you believe that? It actually cost me a reasonable amount too.

[orbital 10]

Was surprised to hear the sound on the youtube, would have thought it a much more 'aggressive bang'.

Anyway, nice that the community has some audio pro's, the sounds play a huge role in this MOD.

Check out http://www.freesound.org for inspiration, do a seach for 'Zombie' while at it :P

[megagoth1702 19]

I am sorry mate. I didnt think about licencing... :( Unfortunately I used a youtube vid for 30% of the sound. The echo/tail is from g36 (arma2) and the punchy feeling thing is from tank cannon, heavily processed (arma2). Maybe I can find an arma2 sound that I like and try to work with that. Since dayZ is gonna be built into arma2 that should be ok, eh? Or maybe use your winchester sample, process it a bit & add arma2 tail?

The sound you paid for is pretty good mate, it's just that it is RAW and does not fit into a gaming environment well, yet. If you want I can fiddle around with it a bit? :)

Check this screenshot (attachment)

Quiet, heh... NEVER TRUST YOUTUBE VIDEOS, most of the time the camera microphone is not able to pick up the volume properly & uses compression/limiting in order to have a nice, enjoyable level of volume. The Winchester IS loud, it's just a normal rifle and rifles are loud. Only because the camera microphone can't pick up the volume/compresses the levels it does not mean it IS quiet.

It's all about dynamic range.

Check this out. After adjusting the volume to natural levels (be honest to yourself) skip to 0:50 to hear cannon AND machine gun fire from 60m away.

I actually have to crank up windows to 100%, use artificial EQ to boost to even more 12dB to get to the "natural" level... And the cannon sounds blow my ears away while machine gun is still kinda bearable.

Gives you a pretty good idea on how much louder guns are than everything else. In video games we dont have the option to have sounds at 110dB+ so thats why everything is compressed into the upper 30% of volume. That's why footsteps in arma2 are not that quieter than the winchester or m1911. Because we dont have HDR Audio (modern Battefield titles). God damn the arma2 sound engine. But I wont even get started on that. :D

[dead3ye 21]

I would need to know the source of the sound and licensing before I could use it.

What might shock you is that I actually PAID for the current sound! Can you believe that? It actually cost me a reasonable amount too.

If you ask you shall receive. Hold a community competition for gun sounds or something. Im sure the already large mod community will make or give you sound files for the various guns. Also its supposed to be quiet, its much quieter than a typical .45 pistol.

[orbital 10]

Kudos to your work Megagoth. And thanks for the video, 7 minutes of ear-gasm! I was thinking PR all the way through, the link in the end confirmed my suspicions.

[megagoth1702 19]

Too bad most people/sound modders (most most most, not all) who make sound mods don't really know a lot about audio design for games. :( So even if the most popular, most awesome sounding sound wins, it still may be completely unrealistic (how does a gun actually sound/feel like and how do you put that feel into the game? A lot of stuff out there just does not sound right) & not fit into the game environment well (volumes between guns, a pistol FEELING more powerful than a sniper rifle etc). So it would need a LOT of testing. :D Surely it's a very subjective topic but there is a lof of material to read out there on sound design for guns & games and it's a very complex topic. I am not saying I know everything and my judgement is the only one but I've read a lot of stuff and tried a lot of stuff and played a lot of games, battlefield 3 in particular is a big inspiration. So I feel pretty comfy in this area. :)

[dead3ye 21]

Just listened to the custom sound file you made. Sounds like a .308 or something, the echo and reverb leads you to believe a high calibre supersonic round. Should be a flat pop with little bass, the 1866 basically uses a .45 ACP round. Not sure why it uses shotguns rounds in DayZ to be honest.

[BigMorgan (DayZ) 3]

Hold a community competition for gun sounds or something.

Fuck that' date=' just pay Jarhead to re-do the sounds.

[megagoth1702 19]

Thanks for the input. That 1st sound is crap imo. I did a new one.

Oh, so it's not a shotgun? I didnt do any research...

Re-did the reverb & used rocket's shotgun1 sample. (I guess licencing is no problem now since it's all either arma2 or rocket's property.)

Original winchester.

https://rapidshare.com/files/2855291026/shotgun_1.wav

My 3rd version of it.

https://rapidshare.com/files/2109287819/winchester3.mp3

Heh, jarhead. Good guy, put a lot of work and hours into his sound mod. One of the best out there. But his current "FPS WIP script" video shows a lot of guns that just dont sound right to me. Lack of punch, sound do not sound clean enough sometimes and some of the guns sound like acex_sm ones, that ugly scratching sound... Bah.

[Casey Jones 3]

I love the Winchester sound. Just hearing the "Phwump" gets me all excited.

[dead3ye 21]

Better but still sounds like there is too much bass and low notes. Should be more of a pop, less of a boom. Should sound similar to a 9mm pistol.

[RSF TheCapulet 45]

I could do a far better shotgun sound any time and release it to dayz open source. *shrug*

Shotguns should be booming monsters, specially up close. I'd love to capture that and get it into dayz.

On short hand, I can also do M16 sounds and a .40 pistol generic soundset as well. I'd love to see a .40 in the mod. ;)

[megagoth1702 19]

Thanks for the input.

It uses .45 (a bit bigger than 9mm, also much more powder in there) as you said and it's still a rifle. It's not going to sound like a pistol. Although I totally get your point.

The bass is there to provide the "I'm holding this gun and shooting it" feeling. In the distance the bass will get lost as the sound gets quieter. Also remember that in arma2 we only have 1 sound file per gun. No 1st person/3rd person, no distant/close sound. One must do for everything. So I choose that this is my version of it and I am done for now.

I won't spend much more time on this. I lowered some "body" of the weapon so that it's not as low & bassy but I am done for now. This is as "pistoly" as it gets for me. Thanks a lot for the feedback again, learned something! Winchester uses .45. :)

https://rapidshare.com/files/1342170820/winchester4.mp3

I could do a far better shotgun sound any time and release it to dayz open source. *shrug*

Shotguns should be booming monsters' date=' specially up close. I'd love to capture that and get it into dayz.

On short hand, I can also do M16 sounds and a .40 pistol generic soundset as well. I'd love to see a .40 in the mod. ;)

[/quote']

"FAR better" eh? Welcome to the land of subjective judgement.

I am also not quite sure if you really know what you are talking about. A shotgun is not a booming monster. It's just a gun, like all guns it makes a loud sound. A loud bang. That's it. Then there is characteristics & mechanics but these get lost along the way, especially if heard from more than let's say 50-100m away.

The main sound a gun makes depends on: Calibre used, barrel lengh, materials used, barrel & overall gun weight, and a few more, I cant remembre them all. But yeah, that's it. So all guns sound the same... And not. ;) So you gotta find that thin line, which is super hard.

Also, as stated above, the winchester is not a classic shotgun. Apparently (wikipedia says so too) it uses .45 rounds and a few more.

[dead3ye 21]

EDIT: post withdrawn

[megagoth1702 19]

True that. Thanks for the very good feedback. But I don't really want to spend more time on this.

Also keep in mind that this will sound totally DIFFERENT in the ingame environment. It will be maybe just as loud as the m1911 or maybe even quiter, I did not boost the volume that far above 0dB. Funny, in the beginning all I wanted to do is RAISE the volume of the winchester but then I started fiddeling etc. God damn. :D

@VOLUME:

Looking at volume with the small dynamic range we have in game audio I dont think we should make samples that are THAT MUCH quiter/louder when compared to eachother. When I am able to test all this I will make sure that the winchester is as loud as the m1911 or maybe 2-3dB quiter. But if some custom modders will change the sound of the m1911 I will have to re-balance the volume of the winchester again and I dont feel like spending so much time with that. I will wait for rocket's opinion on newest sample, maybe he will put it in for testing purposes (since the game is still in alpha it's quite possible that it will be thrown out again so whatevs).

@rocket: pls PM me and tell me what you think thanks.

[zorg_dk 30]

I like your version better, Megagoth. The current sound sounds unnatural to me.

[dead3ye 21]

I say it would sound similar to a 9mm pistol because think of the difference in barrel length between an M1911 pistol and the W1866. The shorter the barrel is, the louder the bang. The difference in sound from differing barrel lengths is quite significant.

[RSF TheCapulet 45]

"FAR better" eh? Welcome to the land of subjective judgement.

I am also not quite sure if you really know what you are talking about. A shotgun is not a booming monster. It's just a gun' date=' like all guns it makes a loud sound. A loud bang. That's it. Then there is characteristics & mechanics but these get lost along the way, especially if heard from more than let's say 50-100m away.

[/quote']

I didn't mean better than yours goth, I meant better than the game. Could I do better than yours? Maybe we'll see today since I have some free time to go out and record. But I didn't mean to insult you. Just letting you know.

[Deneme 8]

Back home my family has quite a few of the guns present on the game and after hearing the noises of them in game it just sounds weird. I guess next time I am home on leave from base I will take my few guns with me to do some sound tests with the whole lot of them. We will try for multiple samples from the same weapon in a zero noise area for pure sound quality as well.

[megagoth1702 19]

I didn't mean better than yours goth' date=' I meant better than the game. Could I do better than yours? Maybe we'll see today since I have some free time to go out and record. But I didn't mean to insult you. Just letting you know.

[/quote']

Please, call me Mega. ;) Haha.

Alright, thanks for clearing up. I really understood it the wrong way. :)

The winchester from dayZ is actually pretty well recorded. But it does not fit into the game. It's just that the levels of ALL the other sounds SUCK and that'S why it sounds so quiet. BIS didnt really focus on proper sound in arma2... If you would re-do all the samples from the game to have consistent volume (explosions louder than rifles, rifles a bit louder than pistols, SD weapons louder than footsteps, engines not as loud as gun shots etc.) then we would have a much better sounding game to begin with. Unfortunately we can NOT control the volume of a sample from the config file which is why we need to edit the sample itself.

Hey, thats a dev suggestions, make playback volume controllable directly from the config.

@Gun recording:

Dont forget to use the right mic & right preamp. Also enjoy having to position the mic in relation to the guns. Guns are crazy. :(

This video shows 1 burst of PKM recorded from different mics in different positions. Pretty crazy differences, mh?

Good reads:

http://publications.dice.se/publications.asp?show_category=yes&which_category=Audio

[BigMorgan (DayZ) 3]

Thanks for the input. That 1st sound is crap imo. I did a new one.

Oh' date=' so it's not a shotgun? I didnt do any research...

Re-did the reverb & used rocket's shotgun1 sample. (I guess licencing is no problem now since it's all either arma2 or rocket's property.)

Original winchester.

https://rapidshare.com/files/2855291026/shotgun_1.wav

My 3rd version of it.

https://rapidshare.com/files/2109287819/winchester3.mp3

Heh, jarhead. Good guy, put a lot of work and hours into his sound mod. One of the best out there. But his current "FPS WIP script" video shows a lot of guns that just dont sound right to me. Lack of punch, sound do not sound clean enough sometimes and some of the guns sound like acex_sm ones, that ugly scratching sound... Bah.

[/quote']

No doubt there are many skilled sound editors in the Arma community, my post was meant as tongue-in-cheek. :cool:

Arguing about which mod is better than another is pointless as they're all great in their own ways. Unless they're just god-awful (Takko).

[megagoth1702 19]

Rocket brochacho, say something.

Sounds used in current version are your winchester sound that you paid for & a tail from the MP5 from regular arma2. Is licencing still a problem?

https://rapidshare.com/files/1342170820/winchester4.mp3

Come at me bro.