Slower zombies will be more fun, less predictable and interact better with survivors.

[Horr1d 7]

Hey again guys, I've been playing this mod solidly now for days, in fact I'm logged in right now camping out my favourite road with a sniper rifle between two popular towns, waiting for my morning beans and Pepsi... but enough of my antics, I will have a stream up soon showing you all my style of play.

I currently see the mod in its present state as a simple puzzle game, I need during the daylight, a set amount of food and water per hour. At night time, I need a heat source too.

I have to balance the inventory space of my character between items that keep me alive, items that protect me, and items that recover my health/condition when I make a mistake. Survival take priority over everything and currently, banditry is the most efficient and fun way I can spend my time in this mod as zombie AI is awful :(

When my victims have no items I need for survival, I go to a nearby town, abusing the zombies basic mechanics to avoid making them "aggro" me, usually by going prone when there are lots of them around, crouching when there are not so many and looting buildings for cool items / ammo and survival items. In cities I usually avoid shooting because the zombies are a major bore to successfully deal with and draw far too much unwanted attention.

"Aggroing" the current zombies I find to be too mathematically predictable, they either hear me from my footsteps or see me and instantly become super fast sprinters who, strangely enough have also been trained in fire and manoeuvre like soldiers have because of the way they zig zag at lightening speed towards you, making shooting them almost impossible unless you can bug out the environment and make them walk again, like running to stairs or a doorway for easy headshots. If abusing the environment is not possible, I just walk backwards, letting them hit me while I fire careful shots into their heads. This happens every time I encounter a zombie, there is no variance.

Anyway, zombie AI currently works as follows and I suggest it is changed to a much more fun and deeper mechanic to allow intelligent manipulation of the zombie to a clever player or for role play purposes.

Zombies will spawn near to buildings and other once populated places. They will stagger around randomly within the boundaries of the town until they hear a noise, the loudness of this noise depends on the type of sound made or weapon fired. A Crossbow makes no noise at all (but is totally useless as accuracy is horrendous, even when prone at short range), a Winchester rifle is very loud and will send zombies into instant attack mode at nearly double the range of firing the default pistol.

This noise from firing or moving will aggro all nearby zombies upto a certain radius, depending on weapon used or noise made.

I was in electro earlier, camping up high with a rifle and all around me the undead. About 300m / 400m away, deeper into the town, I heard pistol shots which instantly made me try and find a visual confirmation. I noticed that the zombies, even ones closer to the gunshot didnt move at all. I clearly heard the shot from much further away than the zombie did, but it didn't react because the sound was outside of the zombies personal radius of hearing. I eventually saw who made the shot, climbing onto a roof. I took aim with my rifle and fired, hitting him with the second shot but not killing him. The zombies around a 150m radius from my gunshot instantly went aggro mode, sprinting and going mental. They had my position locked in instantly.... now look at ANY decent zombie film, this really is not how zombies work at all.

My change would work like this... Zombies have the same range of hearing that human players do, but vastly restricted vision. Zombie attack mode or aggro would only occur when the zombie has a visual confirmation of the human within lets say 50m to 150m, varying from zombie to zombie (more variance = more fun). Until a visual has been confirmed, zombies will slowly move towards the direction of the sound or light source (at night time), regardless of what weapon or movement made the sound, with the same range as human players hearing. When a visual is confirmed, they will move at 2x walking speed towards the human for an infinite period of time until killed or vision is lost. When vision is lost, zombies go back into roaming mode, but will roam the location of its last visual confirmation. Hiding will only keep you safe for so long....

In the same above scenario, but with my changed mechanics it would work as follows. The pistol gunshot I clearly heard from deeper in the town would have been heard by all the zombies around me too, but it would have been impossible for them to gain a visual. The zombies would have faced the direction of the sound and began moving in that direction, scanning for a visual confirmation. Their FoV (field of view) will be reduced to 20/45 with a distance of 50-150meters so they are not eagle eyed, for balance.

When I fired with a much louder noise, the zombies much closer to me will begin to look in the direction of the shot and those within the 50-150meter range will spot me if there are no walls blocking vision, and enter aggro mode. The ones outside of 150meters will turn to my direction and begin moving to the latest sound.

Yes, this can be considered a more easy zombie to evade with them being so slow, but this is why zombie attacks will be much more deadly when they hit you, causing 1000 to 2000 blood loss with each hit. Every hit will also result in a 50% chance of you becoming infected with the zombie virus and require you to need another survival item to keep the level of infection down, the same way you currently do for food/water/heat. If you get no antidote or die from blood loss resulting from zombie attacks, you will eventually turn into a zombie. Player turned zombies are not controlled by the human, but the new AI with increased FoV and will run at 4x the normal aggro speed of basic NPC zombies, similar to the speed they move at now. This way, we get traditional slow zombies and faster, crimson head zombies.

To stop this being abused, sprinting will be limited and a stamina/fatigue meter introduced. The size of the stamina meter will depend on how many items you are carrying (weight) and the level of food / water you currently are at, giving an incentive to eat and drink before the food/water meter actually flashes in order to gain more maximum stamina or stashing heavy items nearby before beginning a raid. When the meter is depleted, walking or stopping will slowly regenerate the meter, continuing to sprint when its depleted will result in a slower sprint speed, but the rapid burning of the water meter.

Introduction of something like this will result in stray zombies migrating to sounds they hear in the forests, perhaps from wild animals or the faint glow of a fire. Regardless, it make it possible to gather a pack of zombies to a location. It will require intelligent planning and management of stamina, food and water to manipulate the zombies well, as 1 bite could be fatal or a major problem if you become infected.

A system such as this will result in much more interesting interactions with zombies instead of what is now a fight or flight system. If the code for zombie AI is available, I'd be happy to look at it and see if such a system is workable.

TLDR ----- Go watch the original Dawn and Day of the dead movies. Zombies like this please!!!!!!

[dieselhead 1]

Good post IMO. I agree pretty much all you said (yes, I read that wall of text).

Lets hope at least some of those ideas will be seen later on in this mod.

[rocket 16567]

The zombies in this aren't zombies. They are infected people.

Personally I prefer 28 days/months later as I find this more terrifying and believable, hence why it is like this in game.

As I said in an interview, I have a lifecycle developed for the infected people that will result in some of them being slower than others (malnutritioned) but that would be the exception rather than rule.

[Smails 1]

The zombies in this aren't zombies. They are infected people.

Personally I prefer 28 days/months later as I find this more terrifying and believable' date=' hence why it is like this in game.

As I said in an interview, I have a lifecycle developed for the infected people that will result in some of them being slower than others (malnutritioned) but that would be the exception rather than rule.

[/quote']

The ultra fast sprinters though, with the desync or whatever, are just absurd though. My opinion anyways. They essentially teleport very often, which I think its a bit much.

[miqueloz 33]

If anything, add more zombies/make them faster. They are really not all that scary when they can't hit you if you just keep sprinting and then you can run inside any building and take your time killing them.

[bellicosity 0]

Will you be making the infected people more dangerous/lethal to players? As it stands the other players in the game are the real threat, not the infected people.

I would just like to feel in real peril from aggroing zombies for reasons other than I might attract curious bandits.

[Evilsausage 87]

Cool will we in the future get any hints on what caused the infection of all those people?

Im guessing it wasn't from bites, since players can't get infected by them. Not yet anyway.

I think if all zombies where slow the game would just be dull.

But I would really want less predictable zombies. Zombie hordes and a few zombies here and there in forrests.

[Matthais 0]

While I would prefer tweaked zombie AI behaviour as you describe, I really wouldn't want player controlled zombies; just seems to be heading into the realms of a whole other game than what DayZ is currently.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

Will you be making the infected people more dangerous/lethal to players? As it stands the other players in the game are the real threat' date=' not the infected people.

I would just like to feel in real peril from aggroing zombies for reasons other than I might attract curious bandits.

[/quote']That is because PvP is the game as of right now, if you took the zombies out of the world they would pretty much have the same impact as now; which is really none after you get familiar with the game mechanics.

I see that as a rather large issue and it pisses me off because the game in its current state is basically Arma II with a twist and some nearly harmless infected people thrown in the mix. This whole thing is a great idea but I'm just not feeling it down the road unless there is some kind of large change which will shift the focus away from PvP and more towards the infected.

No one wants PvP to go, they just want the main focus of the game (zombies) to be....you know.....the main focus....

[sprenger5@hotmail.com 2]

The zombies in this aren't zombies. They are infected people.

Personally I prefer 28 days/months later as I find this more terrifying and believable' date=' hence why it is like this in game.

As I said in an interview, I have a lifecycle developed for the infected people that will result in some of them being slower than others (malnutritioned) but that would be the exception rather than rule.

[/quote']

Do you have any backstory as to what happened to cause the events we experience in Day Z?

[Evilsausage 87]

Will you be making the infected people more dangerous/lethal to players? As it stands the other players in the game are the real threat' date=' not the infected people.

I would just like to feel in real peril from aggroing zombies for reasons other than I might attract curious bandits.

[/quote']That is because PvP is the game as of right now, if you took the zombies out of the world they would pretty much have the same impact as now; which is really none after you get familiar with the game mechanics.

I see that as a rather large issue and it pisses me off because the game in its current state is basically Arma II with a twist and some nearly harmless infected people thrown in the mix. This whole thing is a great idea but I'm just not feeling it down the road unless there is some kind of large change which will shift the focus away from PvP and more towards the infected.

No one wants PvP to go, they just want the main focus of the game (zombies) to be....you know.....the main focus....

Totaly agree. The first day or two i thought the zombies where really scary. But now its just very rare they are a big problem. Its normally the players you have to watchout for.

I just hope it becomes a bit more scary to walk around in a forrest in Day Z. Making it hard to survive vs zombies would also require more teamplay.

I also think zombies could be better att detecting during the day. Since Zombies are far less of a problem during the day right now.

[bellicosity 0]

Will you be making the infected people more dangerous/lethal to players? As it stands the other players in the game are the real threat' date=' not the infected people.

I would just like to feel in real peril from aggroing zombies for reasons other than I might attract curious bandits.

[/quote']That is because PvP is the game as of right now, if you took the zombies out of the world they would pretty much have the same impact as now; which is really none after you get familiar with the game mechanics.

I see that as a rather large issue and it pisses me off because the game in its current state is basically Arma II with a twist and some nearly harmless infected people thrown in the mix. This whole thing is a great idea but I'm just not feeling it down the road unless there is some kind of large change which will shift the focus away from PvP and more towards the infected.

No one wants PvP to go, they just want the main focus of the game (zombies) to be....you know.....the main focus....

Totaly agree. The first day or two i thought the zombies where really scary. But now its just very rare they are a big problem. Its normally the players you have to watchout for.

I just hope it becomes a bit more scary to walk around in a forrest in Day Z. Making it hard to survive vs zombies would also require more teamplay.

I also think zombies could be better att detecting during the day. Since Zombies are far less of a problem during the day right now.

I dont really mind what the solution is, I just feel in a game like this the zombies should be the most lethal thing out there. As it is, I took on 50+ zombies by myself in the middle of berezino (outside) with a friggin winny with no problems. That should not be able to happen.

The only reason I DONT go guns blazing into a town is because A) ammo is scarce for a lot of the weapons I like and B) I might attract another survivor who is keen on shooting first, asking questions later

[Pancakes 0]

I think roaming zombie hordes in the wilderness would add a bit of tension, especially at night. You're sitting around a campfire with a couple buddies, staying warm in the cold rain, and you all keep a weary eye out into the darkness, wondering if a zombie horde is coming your way.

[IDex (DayZ) 4]

The only reason I DONT go guns blazing into a town is because A) ammo is scarce for a lot of the weapons I like and B) I might attract another survivor who is keen on shooting first

IMO this makes zeds dangerous enough already. Contrary to run-and-gun FPS like L4D survival games are hard because of the survival aspects, the real threats/challenges should be inventory management, navigating, planning safest course of action, player contact etc. and not about killing zeds.

[dead3ye 21]

The zombies in this aren't zombies. They are infected people.

Personally I prefer 28 days/months later as I find this more terrifying and believable' date=' hence why it is like this in game.

As I said in an interview, I have a lifecycle developed for the infected people that will result in some of them being slower than others (malnutritioned) but that would be the exception rather than rule.

[/quote']

The speed isnt the problem, its Arma 2's lag, clunky animations, and horrible AI pathing, there is no real transition from standing to running so they appear to warp all over the place. There needs to be a new running animation for the zombies to slow them down a little bit, at the moment there is no point trying to shoot a zombie on the run, you'll just waste ammo unless you have a shotgun with buckshot.

[radioghost 2]

Is there any reason we can't have zombies like this?

Looks like they've already been coded into Arma2, by someone else.

[miqueloz 33]

Is there any reason we can't have zombies like this?

Looks like they've already been coded into Arma2' date=' by someone else.

[/quote']

Why should there be zombies like that?

[Decoy (DayZ) 0]

I like this idea.

[feriluce 2]

Seems like a great idea. Needs some tweaking ofc, but the basics are sound. The zombies currently are really quite silly. For instance today I fired a single shot from a hunting rifle, then immediately got up and relocated. 30 seconds later a horde of zombies had magically tracked me to my new location and sprinted out of the trees. That is just weird imo.

I really feel they need to be slowed down somewhat as well, or at least have their weird evasion manoeuvers dealt with. I actually think that fightinging zombies indoors feels much better when you've got a lot of them after you. Yes they're slow and you can usually avoid getting hit (unlike outside where its impossible), but you actually feel just as threatened. Outside the zombies just feel annoying and gimicky.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

Is there any reason we can't have zombies like this?

Looks like they've already been coded into Arma2' date=' by someone else.

[/quote']I would actually prefer them like this and have thousands of them on the map free roaming everywhere including through currently 'safe' zones on the map. It would keep you constantly alert and never completely out of danger and your focus would remain more on them rather "oh hey, I have a full inventory and everything I need but there is a guy over here so I'm going to kill him for literally no reason." kind of mentality the game currently has.

[andreamit 2]

slow zombies are powerful and possibly more terrifiying than faster ones if you mix the right elements.

take World War Z. the slow-zombie key is number. Fill cities with zombies, make them do far more damage so that the player actually fears a single blow from them and lastly make them vulnerable ONLY WITH HEADSHOTS. and btw it's true that outrunning slow zombies while not surrounded would be simple enough right now, but the true feature that this game really misses is a FATIGUE system. imagine you are surrounded and exhausted so that you can't sprint out of the city but can only retreat inside a building and make a last stand, maybe adding a feature to FORTIFY buildings with woods and other tools. now that would really be awesome

OP ideas are great imho.

[Jori 2]

Nice idea. But will take time to be implemented as it's more complex that the current system.

BTW, i found that in 1.5.7 zombies were more agressive and when you shoot attract more zombies. In 1.5.7 i really was scary about them, but since 1.5.8.X versions come out i find the zombies killing a child's play. Much less agressive and few of them runing on you when you shoot with your guns.

I prefer 1.5.7 zombies behavious all the way than in 1.5.8 versions.

[BurstFire (DayZ) 1]

Will you be making the infected people more dangerous/lethal to players? As it stands the other players in the game are the real threat' date=' not the infected people.

I would just like to feel in real peril from aggroing zombies for reasons other than I might attract curious bandits.

[/quote']That is because PvP is the game as of right now, if you took the zombies out of the world they would pretty much have the same impact as now; which is really none after you get familiar with the game mechanics.

I see that as a rather large issue and it pisses me off because the game in its current state is basically Arma II with a twist and some nearly harmless infected people thrown in the mix. This whole thing is a great idea but I'm just not feeling it down the road unless there is some kind of large change which will shift the focus away from PvP and more towards the infected.

No one wants PvP to go, they just want the main focus of the game (zombies) to be....you know.....the main focus....

Yes to this, all the way

While it's all fun to say 'It's not the zombies you need to watch out, it's the survivors which are the real threat' Walking Dead style, that novelty wears off very quickly. Especially when you're just dealing with thick-headed trigger happy idiots. People are saying this is a PvP mod/game principally because zombies clearly aren't the main focus (not anymore at least), when to be honest, they really should be and the other players a second, but depending on the situation, primary. At the moment, players are ALWAYS primary.

In regards to the Zombie speeds. They shouldn't be sped up at all, their attack pattern is so odd, buggy and annoying, why should it be made even worse? If anything make them slower, harder to down and make their hits a bit stronger too. Maybe make them go down, then get up again after a bit, sometimes crawling, or have them slowly walk then eventually rush towards the player in some sort of bloodlust rage.

If they become just pure actual walkers, there should be LOADS of them, and they should be reasonably difficult to take down, and their hits should be considerably deadly. Think I'm for both walkers and some runners, but having runners as 'special' would be neat. So they would be uncommon. Picture it, confident player walks into town, thinks he can handle the walkers there, attracts too much attention and finds out there's multiple runners in the crowd/nearby and that totally screws him over, as they're like Raptors, quick and veeery hurtful.

[Zhivago 1]

The zombies in this aren't zombies. They are infected people.

Personally I prefer 28 days/months later as I find this more terrifying and believable' date=' hence why it is like this in game.

As I said in an interview, I have a lifecycle developed for the infected people that will result in some of them being slower than others (malnutritioned) but that would be the exception rather than rule.

[/quote']

I agree wholeheartedly with them being fast, but wouldn't it make sense to nerf the speed just a little bit? I'm not talking about shambler speed, I'm just talking 'not usain bolt 24/7' speed. Their speed really is quite ridiculous when you consider their acceleration, the way they zigzag, and their bugginess in general.

Instead of being scared, I'm just frustrated when I have to deal with zombies. I never know when one is going to pop out of a wall and one-shot KO me.

My 2 cents.

And to any rocket fanboys, please save your breath, I know what you're going to say. 'You're just a carebear'. Well, if you weren't parroting that term, maybe you'd know what it actually means and where it came from. You aren't a carebear if you don't like broken game mechanics, and zombies are definitely a broken mechanic right now in the current state of the alpha, and should be fixed accordingly.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

And to any rocket fanboys' date=' please save your breath, I know what you're going to say. 'You're just a carebear'. Well, if you weren't parroting that term, maybe you'd know what it actually means and where it came from. You aren't a carebear if you don't like broken game mechanics, and zombies are definitely a broken mechanic right now in the current state of the alpha, and should be fixed accordingly.

[/quote']I agree with everything you said above but I wanted to highlight this in particular and show my support because I have the same ideology. rocket seems like a cool cat who knows what he is doing for the most part but can I see him delivering an end game that I will actually care about by the time it gets here? I really don't know...

I just don't think the Arma II game base is going to cut it, Arma III who knows but this engine I just don't see it happening. For how free and open ended it seems at first, when you get familiar with it it actually seems extremely rigid and restrictive like not much more can be done with it, there's no real fluidity to the in game mechanics if that makes any sense.

It seems like a good engine for all the options you get like the open ended world, the inventory, items, how you can use items and so on but that is all I see from it. I don't know, this may all be premature speculation or it may not be but I can see an engine such as CryENGINE 2/3 performing all of these same tasks but with so many more available options at the disposal of the developer.

Crysis showed that expansive and large worlds are possible with quite good AI which was much more improved upon in Crysis 2. Both were extremely smooth and beautifully running engines with amazing physics, animation ability and tons of modding potential. Like I said I could be getting a bit ahead of myself but I think this engine is going to be far too restrictive and has too many limitations for what everyone envisions or expects the end product to be.

We'll see.