The Fundamental Problem of DayZ's Survival Gameplay + Suggestions

[TanX 26]

To people who disagree with anything at all, could you perhaps tell me what you disagree with, so I am able to actually defend the suggestions or maybe change them in the main post? This is referring to the OP. :)

[Who cares? 13]

TanX for the most part I don't have a problem with what your suggesting, however there needs to be somewhat easy or 'teaser' level for non hardcore players. The game as it stands right now takes sometime for one to get anywhere, not that I'm saying that's bad mind you. Still I think some less than hardcore players need a chance to be able to start somewhere and figure out, ok how does this all work, and rather they like this pace or that.

The biggest advantage any players have right now is they can just about go anywhere and find suggestions and where EVERYTHING spawns. Which to me has taken alot of the challenge of DayZ away. . (Well and to be honest so has the hacker infestation too. Who for some reason just are not up to the challenge DayZ represents as it stands right now. Which still tells me there are tons of folks out there that are way too attached to loot. Sure some are looking to do things out of spite, pettyness, vengence, laughs, eh the list of reasons here can go on forever. .)

I have read some of the other suggestions as far as stuff spawning out in the woods and have often times wondered why not a pack of wild dogs or other animals. It would seem like dogs / a current and common domesticated animal would go back to it's instinctive ways once all their owners have turned. They wouldn't just hunt humans but probabily the local game too. Plus rabies might be a issue? And no rabies isn't surviviable unless you know how to make the vaccine.

Some of the things in DayZ rather those realize it or not are really not that common in your every common day store. These Iodine tablets ya speak of, light sticks, and even flares; sure you 'might' find them in a local camping store. But in the average supermarket? Eh. . .

I don't have a issue with the pots / pans idea either, boiling water is about the only way an average joe someone will get it for the most part clean. But if they impliment a 'weight' mechanic into the inventory system, there might be the answer to just having a 'pot' on hand. (They might have to still worry about heavy metals but that is another matter.) And chlorine wouldn't work at all, I'm sorry guys but while it is a good germ killer, it also dosen't know the difference between germs and humans either. (Water processing plants use different methods to pull the chlorine back out of the water or neutralize it.)

On the other hand if matches will light a fire, why can't a flare? Both burn rather hot! And yea there are a few different methods to light wood without matches if you know how.

I'm not saying any of the ideas you have are bad, it's just I've seen too many hardcore players ruin games in the past and later on end up leaving because no one wants to play anymore. All I'm saying is there needs to be a easy to hard scale in it. And since everyone is a tad different some are going to need some kind of harder version to play to stay interested. After all isn't being challenged why most of us keep playing?

Take for example the Rainbow Six series that turn into a drag because the hardcore types thought it was too easy to do, well what was UBI Soft's answer to this? Instead of making the AI more realistic or tossing in a hook here or there. They simply reduced the AI's reactions to something way faster than any human could even react to. With there instant kill 'laser' like rifles. So as soon as the AI saw you, you were dead before you even heard the shot go off. And the AI wasn't afraid of anything either, in other words it had no desire to really survive and behaved more like a robot than something worried about survival. Arma is a bit like this too with the AI solders and what not, they can see though a lot of stuff and still instantly kill you. In some ways it's alot worse since if you shot one person in the squad the whole group and other squads instantly knew exactly where you were with out really scanning any area and could 'dispite the travel delay, with laser precision shoot and put a bullet in your bean'.

The development team as far as I know do scan though the various suggestions too so don't think anything you've written isn't at least looked over once. If their being quiet, it's probabily because their busy programming or hashing out issues with the software and ideas their using to bring the game to life.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Who cares?

[nacrom 82]

Nice job OP. I would welcome a greater challenge in day to day survival.

+1

[sgtcuddles 24]

I agree somewhat, food should spawn so much in a supermarket, and even if it does spawn a bunch in a supermarket I believe you should feel so safe while inside the super market. I think they should add a zombie spawn inside the super market, just because once you are inside the super market you usually feel free to take your time and loot it, unless you expect players near by of course. but still you shouldn't feel so comfortable and have such an easy time looting it. maybe you could also give food a shelf life. once it is spawned you could have a certain amount of time to eat it before it goes bad, and once it goes bad you could consume it at the risk of getting sick, I believe this should get implemented because I have found myself hording 20 cans of food in a alice pack, and having no reason to go into a town/city, if we had a shelf life on our food we would be more likely to be forced to raid towns more often for food. putting a higher importance on the food you currently have, and how long you have before it goes bad. It would add another small element to food with a huge impact.

[hotcrossbun 4]

OP is a hero. exactly what needs to be done with this game. Survival is a moot aspect of the game considering how insanely easy it is. In order to bring this game to a new and more interesting direction items must be far harder to acquire. This means that for example if I have an extra map then someone may wish to trade this with me for an extra box of matches that he has. This could also lead to people setting up designated trading areas which would be targeted by bandits and thus require grouping together for protection.

I would also like to see a tent despawn after the user dies with whatever items are in it disapearing. One fundamental flaw of this game is that once you have items, it is so easy to find more at a very quick pace. You then transfer them all to a tent. Now whenever I die it takes me a 5 minute run to my tent in order for me to get all my gear back and then I am forced back to player hunting. The way I see it, tents should be linked to a life. West forest is just flooded with them to the point where I spot 20 tents just running randomly for 15-20 minutes. If a tent despawned this means that tents become temporary storage units linked to one survival attempt rather than them becoming more like a stash. While I admit it is tough for peoples friends, it would make tents a more valuable commodity as everyone would require his own in this case as well. While it is hard to link this to real life as you cannot come back to life the point is if we assume 1 account = 1 player, then a new attempt from that player should not experience the benefits of previous attempts. That is one of the things that this game relies on in my opinion, the fact that there is such a harsh penalty thus making people think twice about how they act. when you have the option to instantly regear however it is a minor inconvenience so your openess to dying shoots up.

TL;dr items too easy to acquire, new spawns should not benefit from old ones, therefore tents should despawn when whoever planted it dies.

[bazbake 456]

@Who Cares?

They may be confusing chlorine tablets with iodine tablets. Chlorine makes a gas which can kill you. Iodine is an antibiotic that makes water taste like Dr. Pepper.

[Who cares? 13]

Eh they must be Baz. *shrugs*

But after seeing someone who had a OCD with cleaning just about kill themselves with the stuff. . (Sorry it was with a prior profession / job I had.) I thought it might be wise to at least say something. Should someone get the 'bright' idea that this might work in real life.

[wolfstriked 143]

I play Dayz by looking at the tremendous amount of canned foods and soda lying around as being empty.I only drink from water sources and I only hunt rabbits(can be hard to shoot at times).Before I find a canteen though I will pick up a soda and when near a water source I will drink it,done because I should be able to drink from a water fountain without a canteen.Same with canned foods eaten as long as I have a raw meat in my pack.Once I am geared I only drink water and only eat rabbits.Adds alot of feeling of survival to me as I never catch enough rabbits to get healthy and so infected are way more dangerous when running around at less than 5K blood.This just goes to show that the game could do away with the food and drink spawns and people would be alright if they were allowed to drink straight from water sources.Gives a post apocalyptic feel when there is nothing around and supermarkets are looted.If Dayz is geared so that players HAVE to visit super markets to gear up so that PVP happens,this can now be at water sources across the map.

And I believe that this could be the cure to the "no real death penalty feel" that Dayz has.We all know that once you know how to game Dayz its soooooooo easy to get geared up.I head to a super market and there are like 4 backpacks laying around.Why is the game made like this though?By a very simple idea of making packs super rare and spread all over the map you just made dying a pain in the ass!!! NM the thought then of starting with no backpack at all and having to endure a long time of struggling with little carry space.Now think of canteens being rare and you will be struggling for awhile by having to stay near water sources upon spawn and having to travel to next town with thought as to where you can drink on the way.Matches should spawn everywhere and be one use,like the bandages.Well I am off to get me a backpack,matches and hopefully a canteen at my local super market. :)

Edited August 10, 2012 by wolfstriked

[Just a Goat 25]

The PvP play-style is the only real play-style which is really supported by the game - in this play-style people seek weapons to kill other players, the survival and zombie aspect of the game is partially ignored, functioning as background noise. People are generally unhappy with the trigger happy nature of the game, the fact that everyone kills everyone.

They're most certainly not unhappy with that, at least not the bulk of them.

The game would be just fine without zombies. Why zombies? It's sort of just like in real life where they're often a code word or a cover for addressing things that are otherwise not normal topics in public. They draw in people who don't understand what the game is, or what any game with mechanics like this will become.

And is has become what any open world combat enabled sandbox will become, and it is awesome.

The only other thing the zombies accomplish here is changing where people set up shop and ensuring that most of the high value targets are a no-mans land.

Tell someone "hey, come play our mod, it's 'The Lord of the Flies'set in Eastern Europe!", and a lot of gamers are like, nooooope. Tell them, "hey, come play our mod, you get to survive in the zombie apocalypse!", and, well, you see the results here.

Weapons - all guns (& xbow) should "sway". Sway should be affected by body position and heart rate (if you just got done sprinting across a field it should be hard to steady your weapon). You should be able to steady the weapon for a limited time (like "hold breath" in call of duty... arma seems to have something like this too). Typically I only see this sort of mechanic applied to scoped weapons, when imo, they should all behave like this.

They do all of this already. What is up with people who keep asking for things that are already in the game? Yesterday it was someone asking for bullet drop, now this. What the hell. No wonder people can't hit a damn thing.

By a very simple idea of making packs super rare and spread all over the map you just made dying a pain in the ass!!! NM the thought then of starting with no backpack at all and having to endure a long time of struggling with little carry space.

You do realize that backpacks are a stone age technology, right? Unless you're currently surrounded by miles of desert dunes, If you can't walk outside right now and make a half decent one within an hour then you're an idiot. If anything, the rarity we have in-game now is pushing the limits of believability, and is mostly there to serve an important gameplay function.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Uncle Scrotor

[EduardBezer 11]

The Fundamental Problem of DayZ's Survival Gameplay

TL;DR:

Survivors have absolutely no challenges in the game - we need more survivor-focused gameplay, while still retaining the possibility for hardcore PvP'ing.

Well... that i am gonna sayng to you my friend...

This is life. There is a sheeps that trying to survive. And there is a woolfs that trying to survive too... They trying to survive just by different ways.

Edited August 28, 2012 by EduardBezer

[DaGolem 95]

Very nice, TanX! :beans:

Good global summary of DayZ.

I love the survival part of the Game. The PvP part is ok, but because there is no Challenge in survivial part most people turn the Game into a simple Deathmatch Game :(

Zombies are really no challenge, spawning Zombies are a little bit Stupid. If u see no Zombies then u know there is no Player if u see then u know there is a person. To easy for PvP players!

Risk on Land/Forrest

For a Player the only Risk is to getting Shoot by a Bandit Camper.

Attacking Bear and Wolfpacks can bring more fear and Risk for booth the survivial Player and the PvP players.

About the Chlorine Pills (dangerous to acquire - dangerous to ignore)

a other way is to cocking the Water ;)

Hopefully the Standalone Version gets more Fear and more focus on the survivial Part and a little bit less PvP Gameplay.

Well... that i am gonna sayng to you my friend...

This is life. There is a sheeps that trying to survive. And there is a woolfs that trying to survive too... They trying to survive just by different ways.

Yep, there are to species on earth -> the social that helps, building things, and the the asocial that destroy, parasitical ;)

Edited August 28, 2012 by DaGolem

[Lights Out 141]

Another thing in terms of zombies, and I say it again and again. They need to make encounters with them more deadly. Obviously the ARMA II created a plethora of restrictions, however in the standalone this won't be an issue. Theres many ways to make it more difficult as in having more zombies, possibility of becoming infected from a bite or having zombies pack come after you and you're team in a more uniform/relentless way. Currently its kind of a sprint, stop, while another ones ziggin and zagging. Now if they all just came right for you just relentlessly trying to attack, you could find you're self closed in and in a bad spot. This would make the ZOMBIE part of the ZOMBIE survival a much bigger part of the game. As it should have a much larger role.

Just a side note, they need to have some kind of scare factor. As seen in many youtube videos of hackers chasing players down in a Jason skin, there is that "oh shit" factor while your trying to lose him in the woods. Obviously you can't lose a hacker that way but certain tactics would work on zombie AI. The point that I am making is, if I'm not careful in the game around zombies, I want to end up running for my life, maybe held up in a building from all sides wondering, "Am I going to make it out of this one"?

Edited August 28, 2012 by Lights Out

[Derekchrs 0]

I think that there should be a way to live in the woods with the problems that we may have to face like purifying water. One way we could deal with that is pots and pans, we use the pots to collect water then boil it with a cool down time to be able to drink and with canned food we can use the pan to cook it and get extra 'Hunger' and blood.

But everything else I would love to have. You have my Beans.

[CreepySalad 108]

Making rounds and magazines separate, and more rare would also be a good way to make people think twice about wasting a bullet.

That axe thing, I disagree with. Not completely, but a bit of it. There shouldn't be a set amount, and when they get really dull, they shouldn't be completely unusable.

But yeah, having huge zombie hordes travelling through the world would be cool.

Making them stronger and more dangerous would be cool as well.