The myth ''It's only a video game''

[stord 74]

I believe you can tell what side of the divide your on when you kill someone for the first time in this Mod. However I do think maturity (Not Age) plays a higher part

That feeling, though it does not compare with real life it certainly has correlations. Gaming styles are an extension of your lives. Go watch a video on any game with commentary, you can figure out the player pretty well.

I for one believe Karma Is a fact, or let me put it bluntly "what you give, you get back"

But remember belief is personal to each, and I don't want to ram it down anyone's throat.

Anyone who KOS's does so because they believe it is a normal part of the game (Which it is, or the bandits / Zombies would be moot) This I think comes from other games where they are expected to play this way "It's just a game" is where this comes from.

This game is fiction, It creates player styles, and there are rewards in all types of game play based on the player who is experiencing it.

Thanks for bringing something coherent.

[Shaimou 49]

I used to play this one game called EVE Online. Its an mmorpg with spaceships, but it has a lot in common with DayZ. PvP, co-op and a sandbox, you can do whatever you want. You play much, work hard and earn stuff. You die, you lose everything and you will have to start all over.

Usually it takes months to earn enough credits to buy yourself a good ship. Now lets say I've played this game for a year and my friend joined up half a year ago. Since he joined, I started to work and gather money for a new spaceship for myself. 6 months of hard work, and Im starting to feel frustrated and decide to buy more in-game money with real-life money. I pay 15€ to have enough money to get that spaceship I ever wanted. Now I have it, I'll show my new flagship for my friend. My friend is pretty jealous and decides to blow it up. All 6 months of hard work and 15€ gone in a minute, which can never be recovered. Im pretty mad at my friend. My friends response: ''Dude its just a fucking game, get over it.''

Would you not be angry with him? Would you just think its ok for him to act like that? It would have absolutely no impact to your relations?

I made up the story.

---

Anyone here played RuneScape as a kid? Play it for a long time just to grind all day long and level up your character? At my age, all the school kids played it and at that age kids didnt think so far about their actions. Kids played for long periods of time and worked hard ingame just to get stuff and level up. And when you died, you lost everything you had in the game. If you had played it for a long time and you had a character of your dreams and someone in your class stole your account, changed its password, would you not be angry? He just stole your RuneScape account for himself to get all your goodies. ''Dude its just a game.'' And not a single impact on your relations was taken that day? This happened a lot years back and broke a few friendships so I think it has some effect on the players' real life.

---

There was a good thread in the forums here somewhere a few weeks back. The threads OP told that he saved a survivor from a sure death. He bandaged him and gave him a blood transfusion and the survivor was grateful. They played for a long time and they had some great fun together. Could've been a good gamer friend in the future, too if it was me there. Then OP's friend joins their party and they play for some time until they have a little break to think about what to do next. Suddenly his friend just draws out his gun and blasts the saved survivors brains out, leaving OP wonder that why the hell would he do something like that?! ''I was just bored.'' -was his reply if I remember correctly. That counts as a same reply as ''Its just a game.'' if you ask me. OP was stunned by his monstrous actions. He killed an ingame buddy of his, and he never could hear from him again. If the OP was me, it would have had a negative impact on our relations. I would have not quit talking to him, but still I would have had less respect for him as a trustworthy friend.

All of the above stories would have an impact on me in real life. Of course the examples may be more extreme, and I would'nt be jumping off a cliff if I lost my NVGs in DayZ, but still. In real life or not. No matter the location or the circumstances, there is always a person doing the decisions.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Shaimou

[stord 74]

I couldn't agree more Shaimou.

When I was younger, I played one of the first (if not first ever) MMORPG created: Ultima online.

I remember how fun it was was because of the perma loss and death built in it (actually, it's exactly what made Dayz so fun for me).

I remember being a player killer (and a very good one) at that time. I was killing a lot of people for their stuff and the pleasure and excitment I would get from it. I even killed some of my long-term in game friends for their unique stuff... no needs to say I still regret it to this day. But I was so young and unconscious at that time, I couldn't fully comprehend the consequences of my actions. I was also very alone and I think it made me feel more alive.

I guess it relates to the example you gave about the friend of the OP killing their new friend for no reason. Sometimes people feel so empty inside themselves that they need to do this kind of bs to feel some kind of pleasure and intense emotions.

[AzinGaming 60]

How can this be stupid? The way people react in a video game is clearly something to be looked at, and knowing how popular Dayz got you can be damn sure there are already people looking at this game for further studies of human behavior.

No, there's you and a bunch of other butthurt people. Nobody else is ever going to give two damns about how people act in an alpha for a computer game about zombies. I think that I see the problem you have: massive ego. You believe that not only is your game experience important, but that Day Z is somehow important. It's not. How you act in this game is no more important than people playing 'Orcs Must Die 2.'

You didn't quite understand what I was trying to bring here. Just trying to see why people seem to think the choices they make in a video game have no real impacts in the real life.

Aside from annoying people who don't want to lose at a game (and shouldn't be playing a competitive game, given their tender feelings) they do not. In fact, they just don't, at all. There is no real life impact unless you choose for there to be.

I suppose you are kidding right here, bro. Otherwise, you clearly do not understand what killing another human being means.

Not kidding in the slightest. Fully understand it. Would gladly kill people in a post apocalypse zombie situation.

Again however, here's the problem highlighted. You are feeling REAL EMOTION about what is, for me, a very casual, sit down and mess about for 30 minutes experience. For you, there is this great emotional journey because you are a) obsessed and B) cannot understand the difference between games and reality. For me, it's just a silly game about silly zombies, with other people running around to shoot. Which is what it should be to you.

Saying this makes YOU look silly. This is YOUR belief and maybe you should start showing some respect to others'. If you think Karma is complete non-sense, right that's your choice, but don't make me look like a fool for believing in something that is demonstrable with simple logic. Maybe you should do a little research on this concept and realize there is meat around the bone.

I'm afraid not. It makes me look smart. There is no research; there is no evidence; there is nothing to justify a belief in karma other than purely anecdotal nonsense. Nobody should respect stupid 'beliefs' just because someone else says that they have a 'belief.' You believe in it if it makes you happy, and I'll believe in the Loch Ness Monster for the same reason.

Got 2 chars of 11+ day of survival, lonewolf, 0 murder, a lot of passes around and in big cities.

Just saying.

That you think that this is somehow important or relevant reinforces the point that you take this way too seriously, think that playing the game matter or is impressive. Your 11 day old characters could easily just get headshot by a sniper that you never see at any given time. That they have not is just sheer dumb luck.

You urgently need to detach yourself from the game (and maybe gaming as a whole) to realise that for the overwhelming majority there is no more emotional attachment to any action taken in this game than there is in Tetris. And anything more than that is just stupid.

[Sticker704 121]

Dayz releases your inner demon as there are no laws for the land. If you want to be a dick, you can be a dick.

[Zexis 127]

-snip-

Thank you, you covered most of what I wanted to say. Have my beans.

[AGlumSon 43]

That is your opinion, my friend. As far as I can tell, I have already seen the influence of Karma in this game. A matter of beliefs, I guess.

It is true! I too have seen the effects of Karma! Until patch 1.5.8 was done and then I never saw it again, though.

[SGTFledge 43]

Look, this is a mod for a video game, alright? Plain and simple. Yet it has made me run a length of emotions that is breathtaking and that I rarely get while playing games anymore. Mind you, the only experiences that have me run that length are marked by their outstanding narrative and the delivery of that narrative. This game has no narrative unless you make one, which is what I do.

I'm the kind of guy that only opens fire when fired open, which, nowadays, is pretty damn often. Sadly. The way I am translates into the game, and this is often seen with a lot of people, and not just in this game. Games that allow choices often allow a sort of glimpse into the way people react. Of course, some people read far too much into that.

There's always gonna be someone that always murders in DayZ because they're paranoid or they just want to survive through eliminating a potential threat and taking the gear of that person, Makes perfect sense, they're trying to survive.

There's gonna be those that stick to their guns and adhere to some moral code, and that makes perfect sense too because their code or beliefs are being mirrored in game through their actions.

And then there's people who murder because they're bored and want something to shoot.

The problem here, mate, is that you're trying to argue a topic, an issue that is far more complicated because of the people it adheres to. There's people in DayZ who detach themselves and roleplay themselves into some pretty damn convincing characters. There's people in DayZ who play casually and just want the experience. There's people in DayZ who takes things seriously, and some who take it to seriously. Some have codes or morals that carry over, others leave them at the door because they just wanna screw around.

Add in meta-gaming, interaction with the community on the forums, opposing views and beliefs, and the fact of that matter is that the topic you're trying to discuss here is far more complicated and the whole "how someone plays shows this part or that part of them" just doesn't completely apply to everyone.

[Sticky (DayZ) 38]

Dayz releases your inner demon as there are no laws for the land. If you want to be a dick, you can be a dick.

Well said, think the OP doesn't fully grasp human nature. If it weren't for laws, I'd have already exterminated a long list of people I fuckin despise, just for fun. Saying that humans would not kill just because they can is the words of someone still living in Mr.Roger's neighborhood. Humans have and will continue for years to come, kill just to kill....do you not watch current events OP? One man walked into the premiere of the new Batman movie and shot 70 people...What makes you think people would think twice about doing that in a VIDEO GAME? Humans have waged war upon each other since the beginning of time, and given the odds of REAL a zombie apocolypse, it would be more rampant than your little carebear mind would think...

Edited August 5, 2012 by Sticky

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

I used to play this one game called EVE Online. Its an mmorpg with spaceships, but it has a lot in common with DayZ. PvP, co-op and a sandbox, you can do whatever you want. You play much, work hard and earn stuff. You die, you lose everything and you will have to start all over.

Usually it takes months to earn enough credits to buy yourself a good ship. Now lets say I've played this game for a year and my friend joined up half a year ago. Since he joined, I started to work and gather money for a new spaceship for myself. 6 months of hard work, and Im starting to feel frustrated and decide to buy more in-game money with real-life money. I pay 15€ to have enough money to get that spaceship I ever wanted. Now I have it, I'll show my new flagship for my friend. My friend is pretty jealous and decides to blow it up. All 6 months of hard work and 15€ gone in a minute, which can never be recovered. Im pretty mad at my friend. My friends response: ''Dude its just a fucking game, get over it.''

Would you not be angry with him? Would you just think its ok for him to act like that? It would have absolutely no impact to your relations?

I made up the story.

---

Anyone here played RuneScape as a kid? Play it for a long time just to grind all day long and level up your character? At my age, all the school kids played it and at that age kids didnt think so far about their actions. Kids played for long periods of time and worked hard ingame just to get stuff and level up. And when you died, you lost everything you had in the game. If you had played it for a long time and you had a character of your dreams and someone in your class stole your account, changed its password, would you not be angry? He just stole your RuneScape account for himself to get all your goodies. ''Dude its just a game.'' And not a single impact on your relations was taken that day? This happened a lot years back and broke a few friendships so I think it has some effect on the players' real life.

---

There was a good thread in the forums here somewhere a few weeks back. The threads OP told that he saved a survivor from a sure death. He bandaged him and gave him a blood transfusion and the survivor was grateful. They played for a long time and they had some great fun together. Could've been a good gamer friend in the future, too if it was me there. Then OP's friend joins their party and they play for some time until they have a little break to think about what to do next. Suddenly his friend just draws out his gun and blasts the saved survivors brains out, leaving OP wonder that why the hell would he do something like that?! ''I was just bored.'' -was his reply if I remember correctly. That counts as a same reply as ''Its just a game.'' if you ask me. OP was stunned by his monstrous actions. He killed an ingame buddy of his, and he never could hear from him again. If the OP was me, it would have had a negative impact on our relations. I would have not quit talking to him, but still I would have had less respect for him as a trustworthy friend.

All of the above stories would have an impact on me in real life. Of course the examples may be more extreme, and I would'nt be jumping off a cliff if I lost my NVGs in DayZ, but still. In real life or not. No matter the location or the circumstances, there is always a person doing the decisions.

All of those situations should have taught you one very simple lesson that not only DayZ can teach you, but life:

TRUST NO ONE.

[Shaimou 49]

What a mess. Anyway:

Im all in for player killing in DayZ and other sandbox games. In fact, I like being killed in DayZ, fresh start is always ... refreshing. But the point that people dont get is that decisions you make, even in games, have consequences and most of the time an impact on someones mood of the mind. Games are made to create emotions. Without different kinds of emotions, games, music, movies, everything would be pointless.

There are competitive games: The great feel of winning and the disappontment of losing. You can feel good to know if you are better than someone else, or if you are performing better than you did last time.

There are strong emotional games. Mass Effect series is a good example that comes in mind. It is made to create bigger emotions. Sadness, cheerfulness, excitement... It is the damn main point of the game.

Horror games to create chills of fear and excitement ... The list goes on forever.

If you kill someone in DayZ, in a straight-up fight, he will most surely feel the disappointment of losing and a little bit sad for losing all his gear. But not in huge amounts, but still it surely activates some kind of activity in his brain.

You team up with someone, and have a blast playing DayZ! The other person thinks you are the greatest person to play with and is going to ask for your Steam account name before you both log off and go to sleep so that you can play later. Suddenly you just empty your Makarov clip into his face shouting in the Direct Chat: ''Ha-ha! Good night, sucker! Remember, its a game!'' The victim is surely deceived and feels very bad for your actions. ''He never liked to play with me?'' - he thinks.

Backstabbing. This kind of playstyle is in my opinion indescribably mean.

Those are all my viewpoints of course. You can keep your views but I aint losing mine. Actions in games do create emotions. The End.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Shaimou

[Sticky (DayZ) 38]

What a mess. Anyway:

Im all in for player killing in DayZ and other sandbox games. In fact, I like being killed in DayZ, fresh start is always ... refreshing. But the point that people dont get is that decisions you make, even in games, have consequences and most of the time an impact on someones mood of the mind. Games are made to create emotions. Without different kinds of emotions, games, music, movies, everything would be pointless.

There are competitive games: The great feel of winning and the disappontment of losing. You can feel good to know if you are better than someone else, or if you are performing better than you did last time.

There are strong emotional games. Mass Effect series is a good example that comes in mind. It is made to create bigger emotions. Sadness, cheerfulness, excitement... It is the damn main point of the game.

Horror games to create chills of fear and excitement ... The list goes on forever.

If you kill someone in DayZ, in a straight-up fight, he will most surely feel the disappointment of losing and a little bit sad for losing all his gear. But not in huge amounts, but still it surely activates some kind of activity in his brain.

You team up with someone, and have a blast playing DayZ! The other person thinks you are the greatest person to play with and is going to ask for your Steam account name before you both log off and go to sleep so that you can play later. Suddenly you just empty your Makarov clip into his face shouting in the Direct Chat: ''Ha-ha! Good night, sucker! Remember, its a game!'' The victim is surely deceived and feels very bad for your actions. ''He never liked to play with me?'' - he thinks.

Those are all my viewpoints of course. You can keep your views but I aint losing mine. Actions in games do create emotions. The End.

Of course we play to get that emotion, the adrenaline rush, the fear, the remorse (to a certain extent) but this thread is not going to sway anyone from banditry and senseless murder, its in the game, and its probably not going anywhere.

[Pareidolia 0]

Many videogames have exhibted real life effects. Both mentally strengthening problem solving and also in some cases can be used as a social experiment. To people who play videogames, it is much more than "just a videogame". A lot of time goes into enjoying these games just as much as people like watching movies so much.

[Inception. 9443]

That's why I refrain from killing players.

[stord 74]

To AzinGaming -

I find it rather amusing how many assumptions you make on my case. You talk like you know everything and even more disturbing, like you know me from one single topic.

The more you talk the more I feel sad for you. You seem like a very blind person who only see the world with the mental filter you have built yourself over time.

Claiming that I have a big ego (when you clearly seem to have the biggest one on this topic), that I should stop playing video games because I take them too seriously, or even better, that I have stupid beliefs, it clearly brings to wonder what kind of men you are. To me, you just try to act cool and brilliant when, in fact, you are just a disrespectful immature person.

I started this topic peacefully, not trying to attack anybody, just raising questions, and now you come here attacking me for no fucking reason. What's your problem seriously? Projecting yourself into others, maybe?

Let me 'lol' at your face man. You don't know shit about me. You are wrong on every aspects of your teenager analysis.

[Daldrath 9]

You seemed to turn down the idea that people who play battlefield and halo aren't secretly demented within their own mind because killing is the sole goal, whereas it is not in Dayz. Does this mean that in halo anyone who kills another player in the CTF game type is a demented psychotic? The goal is to get the flag and return it but killing is something you do to ensure your safety as you do it, kinda like in Dayz if I'm approaching a city and I see another player I kill then to ensure my total safety.

[Zexis 127]

-snippy snip-

Oh, of course, I agree! DayZ does and should ellicit emotions from players.

But OP is suggesting that this is some sort of reflection of our inner personalities, which is just ridiculous. That I should feel remorse for saddening another player.

And I don't.

This is a game. A game in which all players know death can come at any time, in any form. If you become too attached to your gear, to the time spent collecting items, that is YOUR fault. It is no different than, say, having a killstreak ended in Call of Duty. The time invested may differ, but the attachment to something that is expected to be lost is unjustified.

you might even have disturbed a whole day or night because, you know, some people take this really seriously

And therein lies the problem. First rule of DayZ is to not become too attached to your gear or your progress. You have to learn to enjoy the journey and experience in and of itself, or you simply won't have a good time. Which is why, again, this mod is not for everyone.

P.S. OP, no one likes an armchair psychologist.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Zexis

[Sinoby 39]

I do understand what OP is saying, my decisions do affect other players. But the thing is - this game is cruel, if you get attached to your character. I mean if a person rages after dying in fire-fight, then probably perma-death sandbox games are not for him.

And actually, my thoughts about dayz that the destination doesn't matter, it's all about the journey. There is no such thing as "I've bit the game". It's not like you are close to completion of the game and get shot. You collect your gear to survive - against the zeds and players. Once you die - you lost the game, try again. But you can't win the game, you can't be close to winning at all. I don't get why people keep saying "I have invested given amount of time into this character, and I got killed." That person has invested the time into playing the game, as an outcome he had a geared character, but the he died. That life is over for him, the game is not. You start over and play better this time.

Again, it's bout the actual gameplay and enjoyment you get while it, not about some mythical goal. Enjoy the gameplay.

[stord 74]

But OP is suggesting that this is some sort of reflection of our inner personalities, which is just ridiculous. That I should feel remorse for saddening another player.

And I don't.

To me, by stating this you somewhat proved my point. You do not feel remorse for saddening another player because this personality of yours lead you to believe this is absolutely not wrong because it is only a video game. So, in a sense, it reflects your inner personality because on my side I believe the exact opposite. I DO care for saddening other players, because in real life this is the way I am. I'm conscious of the consequences of my actions and I care for the way people feel. You clearly do not (in this game, ofc).

Now I'm not saying you are a bad person or even that you act the same way in real life, that is only a generalization. Food for thoughts.

And therein lies the problem. First rule of DayZ is to not become too attached to your gear or your progress. You have to learn to enjoy the journey and experience in and of itself, or you simply won't have a good time. Which is why, again, this mod is not for everyone.

Oh so, let's see, because people should not get attached to their gear, there should be less justifications to not be cruel?

That would be like saying: people should not get too attached in a relationship knowing their partner can break-up at any given time, therefore they can cheat on them without remorse because they knew the risks and the rules of being independant (exaggeration)

Edited August 5, 2012 by StOrD

[Paeyvn 23]

Honestly I disagree a bit with what the OP has said. Dald said earlier that killing is a means to keep yourself safe as you go about your other goals, and I agree.

However, if the OP were to take his argument and change it to talking about HACKERS or people who blatantly cheat, I'd say it'd be a bit more valid. They do it purely to ruin other people's day, they're sadists.

[Sinoby 39]

OK, another example about saddening other players. In sports people are playing against each other, the winning team celebrates victory and the losing team is really sad about their lost. So are you saying that winning team should just stop and don't win the next time? So the other team will not feel bad? The result will be - the ex-winners will loose while the other team will celebrate their victory. Now the ex-winners are feeling bad since they lost.

I think that comparing a video game to a real-life crime is wrong. You are not taking candy from a baby. You are winning, and the other side is losing. That is called a game because it is a competition.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Sinoby

[stord 74]

Maybe I have expressed myself in the wrong way, but most of you do not seem to grasp what I was trying to bring here.

I am not talking about if or not people should kill other players on sight in a survival game. I was merely discussing the strange behavior a lot of them were having to explain their actions of murder. The popular ''It's only a video game''.

A lot of you guys seem to think that because it is a video game, there is no real consequences for fucking with others. It almost seems like some of you were claiming that the players - and the emotions they feel - were as real as the game: non-existent and virtual.

But this is false, and this is only what I was trying to put to light. I wanted to hear the explanations you had for this phenomenon.

[Zexis 127]

Maybe I have expressed myself in the wrong way, but most of you do not seem to grasp what I was trying to bring here.

I am not talking about if or not people should kill other players on sight in a survival game. I was merely discussing the strange behavior a lot of them were having to explain their actions of murder. The popular ''It's only a video game''.

A lot of you guys seem to think that because it is a video game, there is no real consequences for fucking with others. It almost seems like some of you were claiming that the players - and the emotions they feel - were as real as the game: non-existent and virtual.

But this is false, and this is only what I was trying to put to light. I wanted to hear the explanations you had for this phenomenon.

The explanation is just that: it's just a videogame. We - meaning most gamers - play games to detach ourselves from reality and to be entertained. A lack of remorse from a kill should not be indicative of one's personality, but rather the detachment from it while playing a videogame.

[stord 74]

However, if the OP were to take his argument and change it to talking about HACKERS or people who blatantly cheat, I'd say it'd be a bit more valid. They do it purely to ruin other people's day, they're sadists.

I was supposed to talk about hackers in the original post, but I was in a hurry when I finished it and forgot.

Thanks, OP is edited now.

Edited August 5, 2012 by StOrD

[stord 74]

The explanation is just that: it's just a videogame. We - meaning most gamers - play games to detach ourselves from reality and to be entertained. A lack of remorse from a kill should not be indicative of one's personality, but rather the detachment from it while playing a videogame.

I think this statement would work for most games out there, but it doesn't entirely apply to Dayz. Simply because almost everyone is addicted to this game because they can feel emotions with it. The perma-death system is mostly what makes this mod so entertaining.

You cannot detach yourself from something when you feel emotions from it. This just doesn't make sense.

Edited August 5, 2012 by StOrD