why sacrifice carebears safety for sake of bandits ?

[unsobill 0]

Okay, i want to clear something right now!

My question is simple : Rocket created some-kind of TRUST system based on skin color to sort bad players from good players.

Instead everyone complain and Rocket was forced to remove TRUST system all together ?

If this is true, this might be biggest case of counter-productive criticism from community i ever seen. Kinda like : "oh TRUST system based on skins is bad for bandits - they get targeted all the time, but let's not bother brainstorming and improving it - let's just get rid of it completely ? right ?

This logic seems redicilous to me.

[Jamesbiff 4]

I've been helped by poeple in bandit skin' date=' and needlessly gunned down by people who weren't, so basing trust on appearrance never gave you and advantge, it just gives the illusion of one.

[/quote']

This is true and ends the discussion. Thank you, move along!

Yes, this should end all discussions. Im a bandit and i helped a newbie out today. And in know plenty of other people who do too.

The argument is demonstrably false and people who make threads about it should be exiled.

[reasand83@gmail.com 2]

Why do everyone jump to the conclusion that bandit skins was removed because of bandit tears?

Is it so impossible that it was removed because it didn't work with the lootable skins they want to add?

[unsobill 0]

laijka, can you educate me on this ?

Is it still on "to-do" list for devs ?

[BlackAlpha 12]

With the old system you could shoot any bandit on sight knowing that there was a high chance that bandit would try to kill you. This was because people who mindlessly killed others were wearing the bandit skin. With the system we have now' date=' you cannot do that anymore, because you cannot identify those "serial killers" any more.

[/quote']

Excuse me but this is completely false statement - With the system we have now everyone mindlessly slaughtering each other because there is only one skin, and there is ZERO trust between players that just met.

How is that a false statement? It explains your story, why everyone is killing each other.

Why do you think there is zero trust, right now? Because you cannot identify the worst bandits any longer, so you are constantly at risk of getting killed out of the blue. So, people's natural reaction to this is to distrust everyone and kill them before they can kill you.

As you can see, my previous post is an explanation for your statement.

Also, from my previous post you can conclude why people are so upset about the removal of the bandit skin. It's not that people want the bandit skin. What people want is not to get backstabbed all the time. By removing the bandit skin it's now made easier for people to backstab others. Since there are no ingame safeties or real life emotional safeties to prevent mass murder, people get upset.

[reasand83@gmail.com 2]

laijka' date=' can you educate me on this ?

Is it still on "to-do" list for devs ?

[/quote']

Educate you on what exactly?

As the title said' date=' the Bandit/Survivor morphing will be removed. You will find skins around the world, that you can wear if you choose. Humanity will be retained for an undisclosed purpose.

[/quote']

I'm not removing humanity' date=' I'm removing the skins being based on that. So that we can have findable skins.

[/quote']

I haven't seen any post that says it's no longer on the to-do list.

[willia_ho@hotmail.com 1]

Makes no difference to me, I got shot by far many more survivors than bandits tbh. I avoid contact with people I don't know.

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

I don't think you understood my previous post. People who trust on appearance will always be at risk of getting backstabbed' date=' even when the bandit skin is removed. Bandits can always say they are friendly and then shoot your entire team in the back when you let your gaurd down. That's why trust based on appearance will always be risky, even now that the bandit skin is removed. So, trust based on appearance is irrelevant in this discussion.

What is relevant is the following. With the old system you could shoot any bandit on sight knowing that there was a high chance that bandit would try to kill you. This was because people who mindlessly killed others were wearing the bandit skin. With the system we have now, you cannot do that anymore, because you cannot identify those "serial killers" any more.

Also note that while there are far more people who do not kill just for fun, the few who do, they make one hell of an impact. Now that the bandit skin is gone, this illusion will probably become worse, making you feel like most people are a bandit, while it's actually only a few who kill everybody they come across just because they can. Why did this illusion intensify? Because we have no way to identify the serial killers any longer.

[/quote']

You couldn't identify the serial killiers before either, you just made assumptions based on the skin they had.

People felt a false sense of safety simply because they could label every bandit a bad guy, and now that the label has been removed they have to use their heads to make more cautious decisions about who they interact with and realize there's a risk with every encounter they have. However, instead of thinking for themselves they cry about imbalances and want the devs to caudle to their paranoia.

[CalUKGR 4]

I Niblik' date=' vow this day to never again pay attention to any thread that has "carebear" in its title.

Come up with something less insulting.

[/quote']

Yes, but it might be worth reminding everyone at this juncture that it was the developers themselves used the term 'Carebears' insultingly within the Changelog notes released with 1.5.8.

I'm personally still a bit cross about that - and disappointed. It betrays perhaps more than I needed to know about the underlying mindset of those creating DayZ.

[Zoop 343]

laijka' date=' can you educate me on this ?

Is it still on "to-do" list for devs ?

[/quote']

I'd much rather educate you in the use of English, but that might take a while.

I'm personally still a bit cross about that - and disappointed. It betrays perhaps more than I needed to know about the underlying mindset of those creating DayZ.

The underlying mindset has always been clear. Rocket wants the game to be an unforgiving, harsh and cruel game. He doesn't care if you're butthurt because you spent 13 hours collecting tin cans and now somebody shot you on the beach because he felt like it.

The point of the mod is to be an FPS roguelike. It's supposed to be tough. You're supposed to die, and you're supposed to do it often. Getting angry because you can't tell who to trust and who not is ridiculous. It's like complaining because Desktop Dungeons is too hard.

It's ironic that everyone is complaining that they have to shoot other people on sight simply because they don't know if they can trust them or not. Have you all thought, for a second, that other guy doesn't want to shoot you either, but he shoots you because he's scared you'll shoot him?

You, yourself, are part of the problem you whine so much about.

Also, why are you sticking to areas that are densely populated? I never go into Cherno or Elektro anymore. I head directly north upon spawning and resupply there.

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

I Niblik' date=' vow this day to never again pay attention to any thread that has "carebear" in its title.

Come up with something less insulting.

[/quote']

Yes, but it might be worth reminding everyone at this juncture that it was the developers themselves used the term 'Carebears' insultingly within the Changelog notes released with 1.5.8.

I'm personally still a bit cross about that - and disappointed. It betrays perhaps more than I needed to know about the underlying mindset of those creating DayZ.

This gave me some respect for rocket; we may be the players, but it's HIS game (as well as the rest of the team) and the fact that he called the players carebears means he hasn't forgot that. I'm hoping he keeps doing what he feels the game needs and doesn't listen to all the whiners we have around here.

[Zoop 343]

This gave me some respect for rocket; we may be the players' date=' but it's HIS game (as well as the rest of the team) and the fact that he called the players carebears means he hasn't forgot that. I'm hoping he keeps doing what he feels the game needs and doesn't listen to all the whiners we have around here.

[/quote']

Indeed. He had a vision for this mod when he started it, and he's sticking by it. I respect someone like that as well. His game. His rules. If you don't like it, move along.

[ShiddySmell 1]

Bandit skins were inherently bad because they marked killers as such, wouldn't a serial killer try to blend in as much as possible? I find it ludicrous that people think the bandit skin belongs in this game for "balancing" issues, Rocket stated himself that DayZ was never meant to be balanced, it's meant to be a cruel, harsh, unforgiving world where the only aim is to survive. I run with a group of "bandits" and had the survivor skin due to the amount of bandaging/transfusions etc I give out regularly. This does not mean that I wont shoot you in the face at the first opportunity, it just means that you THINK I may not.

A perfect example of the misguided trust the survivor skin gave people happened just a few nights ago. I spawned near Elektro, hit up the church and saw a guy looting stuff, he looked at me, saw the survivor skin and carried on looting. I let him get on with it and then shot him in the head just as he was picking up the last of the stuff, then looted him dry in a matter of seconds, saving me the time it would've taken to run around the church cherrypicking loot.

TL;DR "Survivors" are just as likely to murder you as "bandits", perhaps even more so.

[Fatslug 7]

Basically yes.

only reason to remove bandit skins is so that the bandits can go around greifing.

with the skins you could just feel safe in that every bandit you kill is OK with your survivor standing. Now you might as well merk everyone you see. why not?

[Karma_UK 2]

So skins aside how should players morality affect their experience in game?

Maybe Long term metal health issues for low morality players, but how do you translate that into the game without giving advantages/disadvantages?

BTW I think being a Carebear in this game is perfectly ok, it's a survival game.

Being a carebear in Eve Online is not ok, it's a PvP game.

[BlackAlpha 12]

I don't think you understood my previous post. People who trust on appearance will always be at risk of getting backstabbed' date=' even when the bandit skin is removed. Bandits can always say they are friendly and then shoot your entire team in the back when you let your gaurd down. That's why trust based on appearance will always be risky, even now that the bandit skin is removed. So, trust based on appearance is irrelevant in this discussion.

What is relevant is the following. With the old system you could shoot any bandit on sight knowing that there was a high chance that bandit would try to kill you. This was because people who mindlessly killed others were wearing the bandit skin. With the system we have now, you cannot do that anymore, because you cannot identify those "serial killers" any more.

Also note that while there are far more people who do not kill just for fun, the few who do, they make one hell of an impact. Now that the bandit skin is gone, this illusion will probably become worse, making you feel like most people are a bandit, while it's actually only a few who kill everybody they come across just because they can. Why did this illusion intensify? Because we have no way to identify the serial killers any longer.

[/quote']

You couldn't identify the serial killiers before either, you just made assumptions based on the skin they had.

People felt a false sense of safety simply because they could label every bandit a bad guy, and now that the label has been removed they have to use their heads to make more cautious decisions about who they interact with and realize there's a risk with every encounter they have. However, instead of thinking for themselves they cry about imbalances and want the devs to caudle to their paranoia.

Yes, you could.

If you checked the stats, you would've seen that less than 10% of all players had the bandit skin. On the leaderboards, when filtered by the amount of murders, you would've seen that pretty much everyone on there had a bandit skin.

Conclusion: People with a bandit skin kill lots of people.

There are some exceptions, as some people get a bandit skin due to self defense but they are the minority. Unfriendly bandits are the majority there. On top of that, people with a bandit skin, even when they are friendly, feel the urge to kill others as a means to defend themselves. So even "friendly" bandits will try to kill you at some point.

Serial murderers keep the bandit skin. They are the guys who do the most damage. We all know there are many of such people, who just go around and kill people for the hell of it. We all know that if you meet them, they will kill you. We all know they wear the bandit skin.

So, it's quite clear that people with a bandit skin will often try to kill you. It doesn't matter that 5/10 bandits are friendly, because the next bandit you come across, could put an end to your character. So logic dictates, we should kill all bandits to defend ourselves from possible death. It's a great way to preemtively defend yourself, and people who complain about the removal of the bandit skin know that.

By the way, I'm not saying the bandit skin shouldn't be replaced by a better, more realistic system.

[goldblock 7]

Personally I really liked the old KSK bandit skins. I can't think of many things cooler than Germans v zombies. Maybe vikings v zombies, or pirates v vikings but I doubt Rocket has time to implement those costumes.

I'm so sick of the blurry, baseball cap 'tax attorney gone hiking' look, hope they introduce the new skins soon and I can be a tea towel wearing German again.

[Rinner23 5]

Tears for fears. *Sniff*

[Bill Murray 5]

Some bandits group up and give each other transfusions get their survivor skins back. The mechanic was broken. It was too easy for people to game.

Hell, I've been shot by more "survivors" than bandits. The skin system was never a good way to tell who is friendly.

[Man Purse 0]

There was no flaw in original design - removing bandit skins make things much worse for balance now since all bandits mixed with general population.

It was flawed. I became a bandit with minus -14,000 humanity through self defence alone.

[i wub pugs 16]

And I'll say it again. I've been shot far more times by Survivors than bandits. Like ten times more.

What good was the skin?

[joshuabeatdown 2]

so far the only players to kill me all had the Survivor skin anyway - this change doesn't actually change anything - you already had to watch you back with ANY Survivors...

This.

[Zoop 343]

Basically yes.

only reason to remove bandit skins is so that the bandits can go around greifing.

with the skins you could just feel safe in that every bandit you kill is OK with your survivor standing. Now you might as well merk everyone you see. why not?

I honestly can't get over how retarded this argument is.

'Herp I think the removael of da bandit skinz is going to turn it into a FFA deathmacth, so I'm just going to shoot every wun I see.'

YOU are the only problem in this change.

[matteharenaegis 0]

Basically yes.

only reason to remove bandit skins is so that the bandits can go around greifing.

with the skins you could just feel safe in that every bandit you kill is OK with your survivor standing. Now you might as well merk everyone you see. why not?

I honestly can't get over how retarded this argument is.

'Herp I think the removael of da bandit skinz is going to turn it into a FFA deathmacth' date=' so I'm just going to shoot every wun I see.'

YOU are the only problem in this change.

[/quote']

I think it's funny how they don't see themselves as the actual problem.

[pack.wolf 0]

I've never read any statement by rocket that he removed the bandit skin because of 'bandit tears'.

I've also never read any topic where bandits whined about having a bandit skin.

But then again, I've only joined the forums recently, so I may have missed that. Maybe someone can point me to one of those. Until then I'll just continue to assume that rocket removed it because he thought it was best for the game. Coincidentally, I happen to agree despite still having killed zero other players.