Will arma 3 engine be plagued by hackers too?

[HeHeHe 38]

Is there a donate button for just the new security for the stand alone?

Got my moneys worth + alot more, would like to support the standalone.

But for now, we gotta ride the shockwave.

[HeHeHe 38]

will arma3 have such an idiotic user base as well?

All depends, will you register?

[cintecian 4]

I totally agree that hacking in this game is rampant, but it is in Alpha and I understand that there will be hackers as of now. I have friends literally quitting the game because of the amount of times we have died to hackers or been telported to the middle of nowhere. We spend so much time getting gear and finding vehicles only to lose it to one guy with invulnerable hack and some way to instantly nuke us to death that we have no desire to start over again after awhile. I plan on purchasing the stand alone if and only if the majority of hacking is stopped. I have played plenty of other games in which the hacking is kept to a minimum and is a rare event. Yeah they were AAA games but does it have to be a AAA game to develop an effective anti-cheat system? I'm not hating on BIS or BE I just want to enjoy this great game without worrying that every player I see may be a hacker or that I'm a second away from being teleported. If restricting scripts is what is needed to keep the hackers out then please by all means do it. On a side note I have run l4d2 servers before and know that there are community made anti-cheat tools that you can install on your server that will detect certain hacks log the info and auto-ban the players. Is this impossible for dayz servers? I can't imagine that it's not if hackers can make the scripts to hack then it would seem others could make scripts to detect and remove them? I know nothing about coding so I'm asking is this possible? I would support and donate to such a project in a heartbeat.

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

Don't blame Bohemia Interactive for making a game originally intended for the military.

Don't you'd think the military would prefer a secured system?

[random51 172]

Of course it will. The freedom the "pile-of-scripts" model gives the engine allows any number of wonderful things. You think they're going to throw all of that out the window just to put a dent in the cheaters?

Not likely.

Don't expect it to be significantly harder to hack. Do hope whatever they use for anticheat is generations better than what they currently have.

[Dingus (DayZ) 429]

BIS' games, like the Arma series, are designed modular, to be easily manipulated. As a simulation game, this is necessary to give users the ability to adjust things just how they want them to be for their simulation. Sadly, this makes it difficult to completely prevent others from finding ways to exploit this. Day Z became wildly popular, and with that you get a lot of unsavory types.

With Day Z now being developed as a standalone, like griff says, it will likely be created in such a way where this is not the case, but only time will tell.

I have high hopes.

[CrackerJack (DayZ) 5]

Why is every thread or post I see you make OP nothing but saying how horrible BI and Arma 2 is.

How did BIS make a shitty system, what people like you will never understand is that they never dreamed something like Day Z would happen when they made Arma 2, they've never cared about money, metacritic, etc, they made a niche military simulator and they were happy with that. But people like you, somehow have trouble understanding that and think Arma 2 is an AAA game and BIS are shitty horrible developers, I wish people like you would stop posting.

QFTW!

[Seitan (DayZ) 36]

Wait, I'll get my time machine and go check out. :rolleyes:

[xxfahizzlexx 1]

The standalone will not be an "ArmA " engine. Its the RV engine and will be optimized for DayZ.

[Shag 90]

engine =! game

engine is the graphics and physics.

game sits on top of engine.

arma = game and needs ability to run scripts to give users/mission makers power

dayz = game and does not need to give users this power.

dayz will prevent scripts being run on their standalone version, sitting on the RV engine.

arma 3 will continue to allow scripts to be run on their latest milsim (although it appears they are learning a lot from the dayz experience and tightening many of the unneccessary commands which can be exploited).

the arma games are not shitty cos they are open to scripters, it has never really had a problem with scripters before, it has a amture gaming community who understand that when you hack you are really defeating the point of gaming, and making the game boring for yourself primarily.

arma needs to be open, dayz needs to be closed - this is possible.

/thread

Edited August 9, 2012 by Shag

[WarheadNOR 6]

I wonder if everybody who complain about hacking is a vocal minority, me and my friends havent experienced any hacking at all, and of course I understand that its frustrating and I hope I dont get to experience it. But I hold out hope for BI to get a good system in line for DayZ

[tet5uo (DayZ) 22]

I wonder if everybody who complain about hacking is a vocal minority, me and my friends havent experienced any hacking at all

You are just extremely lucky or you've only played for 2 hours.

In my time tonight accross 4 ddifferent servers trying to get a character started, I got mass-nuked 3 times with the whole server and teleported to some island on the 4th. This was after having my 3 day survivor instantly killed from some unkown explosion the second I logged in the first time.

I've given up on playing tonight, It's the worst I've seen yet for script-kids wrecking games.

[TheWalkingDude (DayZ) 8]

All they have to do is make sure only players with elevated privledges can run scripts during a game - in DayZ's case this should be noone basically, but in ARMA's case this should be people who have the access to do so (server admins, players server admins say so etc). For DayZ, the only domain which should be able to run scripts is the domain which DayZ itself runs in - i.e. localhost, within itself.

Will there be exploits to trick DayZ servers into thinking a script has the necessary rights to run? probably. But these will be patched over once found and dealt with. This simple design change will make scripters influencing other people's location and inventory etc a thing of the past, as no client will have the rights to change this stuff. ARMA2 should have been designed like this in the first place.

[tet5uo (DayZ) 22]

Yeah this is as bad as leaving $100 bills on your dashboard with your car unlocked in downtown L.A. and assuming no one will steal it because it's illegal to do so.

[Banicks 55]

Don't blame Bohemia Interactive for making a game originally intended for the military.

Link doesn't work for me.

[TheWalkingDude (DayZ) 8]

lol @ not blaming BI. It's a lame excuse - they could absolutely have made ARMA have just as flexible as it is now with a few simple security measures inbuilt. Anyone who has done any client to server programming knows the first rule is to not trust the client - it doesn't mean you can't give clients a lot of power it just means be responsible with handing out the power.

Edited August 9, 2012 by TheWalkingDude

[bladesfist 0]

lol @ not blaming BI. It's a lame excuse - they could absolutely have made ARMA have just as flexible as it is now with a few simple security measures inbuilt. Anyone who has done any client to server programming knows the first rule is to not trust the client - it doesn't mean you can't give clients a lot of power it just means be responsible with handing out the power.

The problem with a fully authoritative server is the stress you place on the servers. To get a fully authoritative server you need the server to handle all the physics and check all inputs coming in to see if they are possible. Which then means you need to handle interpolation and client side hit boxes. I do not see how they could get this game running on a fully authoritative server but I do believe that the server should be doing some checks against player input to stop the easily detectable things like teleporting.

[TheWalkingDude (DayZ) 8]

The problem with a fully authoritative server is the stress you place on the servers. To get a fully authoritative server you need the server to handle all the physics and check all inputs coming in to see if they are possible. Which then means you need to handle interpolation and client side hit boxes. I do not see how they could get this game running on a fully authoritative server but I do believe that the server should be doing some checks against player input to stop the easily detectable things like teleporting.

Obviously there is a lot still left to the client side. Some basic data validation would be nice, but what I'm talking about is simple scope. There should simply not be code in the engine which allows any random client to change variables for another client. It is completely achieveable to make it as impossible a thing to do as is running a command which spawns a 3D model that doesn't exist in the game.

If the extent of client side exploiting was modifying data your client sends back for your character and your session, and that was it, the hacking problem in DayZ right now would be absolutely nothing in comparison, and this is 100% doable and should have been how it was made.

[bladesfist 0]

Obviously there is a lot still left to the client side. Some basic data validation would be nice, but what I'm talking about is simple scope. There should simply not be code in the engine which allows any random client to change variables for another client. It is completely achieveable to make it as impossible a thing to do as is running a command which spawns a 3D model that doesn't exist in the game.

If the extent of client side exploiting was modifying data your client sends back for your character and your session, and that was it, the hacking problem in DayZ right now would be absolutely nothing in comparison, and this is 100% doable and should have been how it was made.

I agree about scope. Modifying a client side representation of another client should in no way effect the other client. It is not impossible to spawn a model that does not exist in the game however as you can build one in a script. Not sure if it is possible within arma though as I do not script for it.

[TheWalkingDude (DayZ) 8]

The model thing was just an analogy - you know what I mean :P It should be as impossible to change another client as it is to..... <insert stupidly impossible thing here>.

[Neek (DayZ) 53]

The OP needs to have his shit pushed in.

Every thread he starts is a troll

[Cooperal 16]

Considering the notoriety of hackers seems to eclipse all other troubles combined in the mod, Bohemia would be stupid not to keep a tight leash. However the appeal of creating another mod-friendly title will be very tempting.

If they can get their act together with figuring who is cheating and restrict an official hive to Bohemias own dedicated servers, while community servers require their own seperate saves, we may just get to see the best of both worlds.

An assortment of far less tainted vanilla servers. While retaining the possibility for player-controlled servers that host things like community maps and all sorts of game mode alterations that are kept seperate from the core game.

[Elenkel 50]

Yes. Every online game will be full of hackers.

You've got to learn to enjoy the game. My squad just got teleported on top of after losing all of our vehicles. Went up north and found a UAZ. Was fixing up an ATV when a buddy spotted 3 people that basically teleported right into his sights and immediately started opening fire.

People are weird dude... Why play the game with hacks?

I hate the idea that DayZ will be on ArmA3 engine... My computer has no chance in hell playing that...

Poor argument. There is a huge difference between "have hackers" (e.g. WoW) and "full of hackers" (e.g. DayZ). Very few online games have as many hackers as DayZ. Trying to downplay the problem won't contribute to any improvement.

Last I heard ARMA 3 engine also relies heavily on scripts, as such it will probably also be very vulnerable to hacking. Whether hacking will be as common as DayZ in Arma 2 or not will depend on: 1) how great the cheat-detection system is; 2) how much a copy of ARMA 3 costs.

Currently BattlEye is rather poor at detection, and completely useless at prevention, which isn't what it was built for. Further ARMA 2 keys can be cheaply obtained at $2 a piece, rendering global ban of any kind practically meaningless.

[TheWalkingDude (DayZ) 8]

It's not just the amount of hackers but also the type - I'll be interested to hear the last decent game which was prone to hackers who can do absolutely anything in a multi player game. There is no such thing.

[SmashT 10907]

Can we refer to it as the DayZ engine please since it will be developed separately from the ArmA 3 engine, yes they are both based on the Real Virtuality Engine but will obviously be modified so that it is not vulnerable to scripting like the ArmA engine is designed to be, that's one of the main reasons they are going standalone.

Edited August 9, 2012 by smasht_AU