Probably wouldnt hurt if Rocket communicated a little bit more...

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

The fact the game is different doesn't impact on the way the people that play the game can interact.

It doesn't matter if it's multiplayer PONG, Minecraft, DayZ or the latest rubbish from PopCap... the release model is proven, and can work with any game design.

Even with mapping tools... and satellite importing... a map big enough to cope with 50,000 players... hell let's just do even 500 players...

- Currently at 225km^2 with 50 people, you tend to run into one person every 4.5km^2 (so in a straight line, that's one person every 300m)

- For 500 people, we would need effectively 10x the area, or 22,500km^2 to have the same player to terrain density.

- For 50,000, we would need 1000x the area, or an impossible 22,500,000km^2 or roughly 1/4 of the size of the land mass on Earth, again for the same player density.

Now I don't know about you, but in an apocalypse I would expect to only see a handful of people still alive... otherwise it's not really an apocalypse, is it?

I'm sorry but making a map that size is impossible with using instance breakdowns with much lower pop caps (eliminating the usefulness of a HIVE server in the first place), unless you use procedural techniques to generate the world map... which will take months though more likely, years to write something complex enough to make a convincing city or town.

I have written several procedural terrain generation algorithms with my meager programming skills, using L systems and cellular automata... the shit isn't exactly a breeze.

~Sol

not arguing for or against that, nor have i seen the source code or specific world design plan for the dayz standalone. no idea if it's gonna be instanced and multiple maps, use the current system, procedurally generated, etc. just providing information/clarification regarding how long it supposedly takes to make arma 2 terrain and apply the dayz mission info since you were stating that the apb map took years and years and was smaller than chernarus.

[daze23 549]

It's a game that anyone can make a server for. You can have as many or few players are you want, and can make it public/private/whitelisted, etc.

It's not much different to how MOST other games work... one person hosts a server, everyone else joins... they have fun playing the game the way they like it without being over-run by a bunch of kids that find it fun to ruin everyone elses (fun).

~Sol

but how would that work with this game where you position, equipment, etc need to be saved? almost every MMO or competitive FPS needs to store all it's data somewhere

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

not arguing for or against that, nor have i seen the source code or specific world design plan for the dayz standalone. no idea if it's gonna be instanced and multiple maps, use the current system, procedurally generated, etc. just providing information/clarification regarding how long it supposedly takes to make arma 2 terrain and apply the dayz mission info since you were stating that the apb map took years and years and was smaller than chernarus.

I understand that... but the problem is really the fact the game is so open to exploits and environmental issues, that any data collected will be basically 95% useless.

but how would that work with this game where you position, equipment, etc need to be saved? almost every MMO or competitive FPS needs to store all it's data somewhere

Like it does now, only it will store it on the local server rather than the HIVE.

Again, using Minecraft as an example... the world file, player inventories, etc are all created, modified, and stored on the local server. If a new player logs in, their profile is created on the server, and the contents of thier inventory etc are stored in that profile. A player walks to a new area, and the server will generate new world/terrain data there and distribute it to the game clients in that area.

In other words, there will be no difference to how it works now, except the data will be local instead of on a "cloud".

Hope this clears things up a little more?

~Sol

[DarkRaven123 602]

You could try reading this: http://dayzmod.com/f...ty/#entry434623

No matter what he or anyone does or says, people will still make 133452500 whine threads a day. Without researching first, like yourself.

Here is a quote for those too lazy to click the link:

"It is going to take time to fix these issues, and security issues in particular are not transparent. DayZ, BIS, and BattlEye do not comment on the security issues for reasons which I really hope are bloody obvious. That means things often happen completely unannounced, and work is done all the time, there will be no big fanfare for dealing with the security issues just constant work and change."

Thanks for this quote.

I couldn't seem to find it, but I barely looked.

[suspense 210]

Suspense, speaking of Dayz, why are you not playing anymore? Like nobody in the clan is playing anymore, its weird.

At a lan atm, dunno about the other guys. Guess they grew a little tired of Day Z.

Sol, APB was a major fail, the team was a major fail, the fact it took them as long as you said, to make a district is a major fail.

Take the map of skyrim, its fucking huge and it didnt take that long. Its DLCs has maps half its size, which in itself is insanely huge. Modders create maps for skryim thats even bigger, in months.

Rocket stated that he would love "more maps" to be combined "into one" but instanced. Somewhat like how Eve functions. Eve is 1 server, but the complete map is divided into systems. Each system is huge as hell, but going to another system is a seemingless "transition" Day Z has 800k unique players, not 800k concurrent. Rockets last "concurrent" record, was 22k players at one time. Much less then what eve has on their tranquility server.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

At a lan atm, dunno about the other guys. Guess they grew a little tired of Day Z.

Sol, APB was a major fail, the team was a major fail, the fact it took them as long as you said, to make a district is a major fail.

Take the map of skyrim, its fucking huge and it didnt take that long. Its DLCs has maps half its size, which in itself is insanely huge. Modders create maps for skryim thats even bigger, in months.

Rocket stated that he would love "more maps" to be combined "into one" but instanced. Somewhat like how Eve functions. Eve is 1 server, but the complete map is divided into systems. Each system is huge as hell, but going to another system is a seemingless "transition" Day Z has 800k unique players, not 800k concurrent. Rockets last "concurrent" record, was 22k players at one time. Much less then what eve has on their tranquility server.

Mate, when it gets to that point, I'm all for it.

The mistake I am trying to outline is the fact he's chasing this HIVE bullshit at the completely wrong time.

~Sol

[Pro vack 0]

Iv never seen a developer communicate with the community more than rocket, been playing for a few weeks and iv watched 2 Q&A sessions in that time. The Rocket said thread that is stickied also has the answers to nearly every question. As far as private servers, let rocket do his thing for now. Game blew up and everyone jumps on him for more. Like he said in his last QA, this is a super experiment. So let him experiment.

[deren93@hotmail.com 95]

Yes, I heard Rocket is coming to have tea and cake with all 900k players and then afterwards we can all ride on the back of his little pink pony....

[suspense 210]

Mate, when it gets to that point, I'm all for it.

The mistake I am trying to outline is the fact he's chasing this HIVE bullshit at the completely wrong time.

~Sol

I dont see how its the wrong time. He said he couldnt see why a standalone version(alpha, beta or release he didnt specifcy) wouldnt be done by the end of the year. If he is attempting to follow this timetable, then he might already be working a little on the standalone. Theres no reason to remove core mechanics, that he is using to gather important data, when he is working on a standalone. In any way, that core mechanic(the hive) would have to be "removed" to satisfy you, to then be "applied" again to help him gather the information he needs, to develop a more mature system for his own standalone game. Its just, inefficient lol.

[daze23 549]

Like it does now, only it will store it on the local server rather than the HIVE.

Again, using Minecraft as an example... the world file, player inventories, etc are all created, modified, and stored on the local server. If a new player logs in, their profile is created on the server, and the contents of thier inventory etc are stored in that profile. A player walks to a new area, and the server will generate new world/terrain data there and distribute it to the game clients in that area.

In other words, there will be no difference to how it works now, except the data will be local instead of on a "cloud".

Hope this clears things up a little more?

~Sol

seems like that would greatly change this DayZ

much of the appeal of this game is how many people are playing and the risks that creates. I think you would lose a lot of that by moving to private servers

not to mention if the game ever hopes to have 'leaderboards' and various stat keeping, it's gonna need to have that data centralized somewhere

back to Minecraft: lets say I'm a new player. what server do I play on? how do I get access to this server? and how does that method stop hackers from getting onto the same server?

[suspense 210]

seems like that would greatly change this DayZ

much of the appeal of this game is how many people are playing and the risks that creates. I think you would lose a lot of that by moving to private servers

not to mention if the game ever hopes to have 'leaderboards' and various stat keeping, it's gonna need to have that data centralized somewhere

back to Minecraft: lets say I'm a new player. what server do I play on? how do I get access to this server? and how does that method stop hackers from getting onto the same server?

The point he is trying to make, is that with private servers admins can ban who they want, set the settings how they want. And again, that will result in a completely broken system with no rules.

Admins will lock servers and hoard vehicles

Admins will lock server when vehicles are stolen

Admins will kick and ban if they are killed

etc etc.

This will completely ruin the experience aswell.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Suspenselol

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

I dont see how its the wrong time. He said he couldnt see why a standalone version(alpha, beta or release he didnt specifcy) wouldnt be done by the end of the year. If he is attempting to follow this timetable, then he might already be working a little on the standalone. Theres no reason to remove core mechanics, that he is using to gather important data, when he is working on a standalone. In any way, that core mechanic(the hive) would have to be "removed" to satisfy you, to then be "applied" again to help him gather the information he needs, to develop a more mature system for his own standalone game. Its just, inefficient lol.

Check this shit:

http://dayzmod.com/f...-rocket-inside/

back to Minecraft: lets say I'm a new player. what server do I play on? how do I get access to this server? and how does that method stop hackers from getting onto the same server?

You make one yourself and invite your friends, or you go to one of many Minecraft master server lists and pick one, or you ask on the forums, or look at the many many server threads people make to "advertise" thier servers.

Some are totally private (typically whitelisted) while others are public. The public servers are usaully protected with server sided mods (not available for ARMAII of course), but there are one's that arent' and usually end up griefed to shit (like the current DayZ situation).

The point he is trying to make, is that with private servers admins can ban who they want, set the settings how they want. And again, that will result in a completely broken system with no rules.

Admins will lock servers and hoard vehicles

Admins will lock server when vehicles are stolen

Admins will kick and ban if they are killed

etc etc.

This will completely ruin the experience aswell.

I wouldn't do that shit as an admin. I'm fully prepared to take it on the chin when it's not because of a blackhawk and 16 nukes going off, oh and parachuting cows and ammo crates...

Hackers are always fucking idiots.... admins, well, there are a lot of us who don't abuse the rules... also if you're playing on a private server, chances are it's going to be cooperative anyway or maybe pre-defined/determined "factions" where you expect war.

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[GunsBlazin 14]

*news flash*

click on rocket and click on his posts

start reading

thanks -

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

*news flash*

click on rocket and click on his posts

start reading

thanks -

Newsflash, read the first line of the first post right above the useless piece of shit you just made.

Thanks jackass.

~Sol

[suspense 210]

Check this shit:

http://dayzmod.com/f...-rocket-inside/

You make one yourself and invite your friends, or you go to one of many Minecraft master server lists and pick one, or you ask on the forums, or look at the many many server threads people make to "advertise" thier servers.

Some are totally private (typically whitelisted) while others are public. The public servers are usaully protected with server sided mods (not available for ARMAII of course), but there are one's that arent' and usually end up griefed to shit (like the current DayZ situation).

I wouldn't do that shit as an admin. I'm fully prepared to take it on the chin when it's not because of a blackhawk and 16 nukes going off, oh and parachuting cows and ammo crates...

Hackers are always fucking idiots.... admins, well, there are a lot of us who don't abuse the rules... also if you're playing on a private server, chances are it's going to be cooperative anyway or maybe pre-defined/determined "factions" where you expect war.

~Sol

You might not be a bad admin, but many will. There are already countless of reports of admins abusing rights to hoard vehicles, or prevent losing them.

Rocket said, and i saw that interview days ago. That its something he would look into(this does not mean its allowed, nor that it will happen) and he said it might help with the hacking, it certainly will, but i already stated the major issues it would cause instead. It will not help the situation.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

You might not be a bad admin, but many will. There are already countless of reports of admins abusing rights to hoard vehicles, or prevent losing them.

Rocket said, and i saw that interview days ago. That its something he would look into(this does not mean its allowed, nor that it will happen) and he said it might help with the hacking, it certainly will, but i already stated the major issues it would cause instead. It will not help the situation.

Mate, if I open a private server I'll let you know... I'd be happy to let people on who aren't going to be asshats. Can't assure a good ping if you aren't in Australia, but the offer is still open.

I'll most likely be setting one up after the weekend (I have too many client requests for some design work to get done today and tomorrow) for 1.7.2.4 if all goes to plan. Not sure what the update will do to break it though, but it's still worth a mess around with.

Also, the admins that do that shit are probably the same wankers that run around teleporting people in to the ocean and dropping jeeps on everyone's head. They probably also have some sort of sense of self entitlement that most kids these days do... since they are the ones paying for the servers that are getting uncontrollably shit all over becuase rocket thinks it's "cool". Guess what Rocket, it ain't fuckin' cool man!

~Sol

[Xeno =tgt= 25]

I read the OP post and skipped everything to just say, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

When has he not addressed the issue of hacking. Most of the problems in the mod he has stated that once the game goes standalone he will be able to iron out a lot of these issues, hacking one of them.

If you are wanting an official post here and only here then that is just lazy. He probably has done close to a dozen web interviews and answer most of everybody's complaints and questions.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

I read the OP post and skipped everything to just say, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

When has he not addressed the issue of hacking. Most of the problems in the mod he has stated that once the game goes standalone he will be able to iron out a lot of these issues, hacking one of them.

If you are wanting an official post here and only here then that is just lazy. He probably has done close to a dozen web interviews and answer most of everybody's complaints and questions.

Yea, you probably should have read the thread...

~Sol

[daze23 549]

also if you're playing on a private server, chances are it's going to be cooperative anyway or maybe pre-defined/determined "factions" where you expect war.

~Sol

I just don't think people want to play like that. I don't want to play like that

not to be too cliche, but there's plenty of other games out there that offer that kind of experience. DayZ not being like that is a big part of it's appeal

it seems this is always the issue to fall back to when talking about private servers. the hacking thing is an issue with battleye, the arma2 engine, and the nature of it already being a mod/hack. moving forward to a stand-alone game hopefully these issues can be resolved. and hopefully sooner than later changes can be made to lessen the ease of hacking in this game. but this concept of a 'persistent mod' is what rocket wants for the game. he's always talking about how he would prefer to have everyone playing on one huge server

[Wallberot 37]

Is anyone aware of a donation site for Rocket and his team? It's a shame to hear the company gives him nothing for what he has accomplished here.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

I just don't think people want to play like that. I don't want to play like that

not to be too cliche, but there's plenty of other games out there that offer that kind of experience. DayZ not being like that is a big part of it's appeal

it seems this is always the issue to fall back to when talking about private servers. the hacking thing is an issue with battleye, the arma2 engine, and the nature of it already being a mod/hack. moving forward to a stand-alone game hopefully these issues can be resolved. and hopefully sooner than later changes can be made to lessen the ease of hacking in this game. but this concept of a 'persistent mod' is what rocket wants for the game. he's always talking about how he would prefer to have everyone playing on one huge server

Dude, if you're happy to play on broken-ass-hacker-infested public servers then be my fucking guest.

If it somehow makes you more "legit" then, whatever. I'm all for this HIVE shit once they have the basic game mechanics under control. I can't belive this HIVE thing is even a consideration at this fetal stage of development since it is causing utter anarchy.

~Sol

[Jonson (DayZ) 31]

I can't imagine how stressful it is to work on DayZ for Rocket and the other devs, mods, etc.

But I can also understand the repeating questions about updates, hackers and stuff. I think some sticky threads in the announcments and discussion sections of this forums with statements about what can and will be done about this and that might help a little.

[Wrath (DayZ) 140]

Just posting to say this Sol guy is a complete and utter cunt. Holy shit you call yourself a game developer and have been 'developing for the last 20 years' yet you don't understand what the Tranquillity server is?

Just shut the fuck up, and also stop writing ~Sol at the end of your posts like anyone gives a shit.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

Just posting to say this Sol guy is a complete and utter cunt. Holy shit you call yourself a game developer and have been 'developing for the last 20 years' yet you don't understand what the Tranquillity server is?

Just shut the fuck up, and also stop writing ~Sol at the end of your posts like anyone gives a shit.

Where did I say I don't know what the Tranquility server is?

Why do you ASSUME this? This has never been said ANYWHERE.

I understand what it is and how it works... you're just being a narrow minded dipshit.

I challenge you to show me where I said I didn't understand how it works or what it is...

Also, I can write whatever the hell I please at the start, middle, or end of my posts... the same as you are perfectly entitled to be an elitist dickbag.

~Sol

[cyanyde 165]

Just posting to say this Sol guy is a complete and utter cunt. Holy shit you call yourself a game developer and have been 'developing for the last 20 years' yet you don't understand what the Tranquillity server is?

Just shut the fuck up, and also stop writing ~Sol at the end of your posts like anyone gives a shit.

Gotta say I agree.

I never get involved in silly arguments like this, but seriously, I can't stand to read another post by this guy.

@Sol: Before I block you forever, can you show *one* screenshot, post *one* link or even just name *one* game that you have developed? I somehow doubt it.. and don't give me any crap about it being a secret project or anything retarded like that, you must have *something* to show after 7 months of development.

I've read through this thread in the hope that I could possibly help to explain that there *is* communication, but it's not just here in the forums, but all that I've been reading for the past hour is a bunch of people trying, and then giving up on explaining things reasonably.. dude, there's a certain point when you just need to shut the fuck up and admit that everyone else knows what they're talking about but you! I can tell you aren't a game designer by the way you talk about dev in general.

It doesn't take 5 years to make a game, a playable Alpha build could be done in a few months as long as they had the assets and everything already built, it's just a matter of inserting the assets into the engine.

As for the map, I could use a terrain generator and then the editor to add in the pre-built assets etc in a matter of months..

Hell, you could even use a height map to control the terrain that gets generated, and then "paint" the roads and stuff in via photoshop.. there are all kinds of ways to make big maps, and you can even combine methods depending on if you're working on a large city type area, or open woods and hills.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Please stop trying to bullshit your way through the conversation.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Cyanyde