In a real life situation like DayZ, 'basic' weapons would be very common.

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

Guns are rare in DayZ. As such, they are coveted.

But, when the player finally does find a firearm, he is hesitant to use it because it attracts attention, from both Zeds and Players. Also, because if he fires his weapon often, he is apt to quickly run out of ammunition. This does not make firearms any less lethal than they normally are-- They are highly lethal weapons that can almost assure the death of who you are targetting. Their range also gives the player a serious advantage.

But as stated, firearms still have their weaknesses.

Today's real militaries are entirely armed with firearms. No serious military uses basic melee weapons or even basic ranged weapons, such as throwing axes or bows. The reason is because the firearm is viewed as completely superior to these things, and it is true.

But in the survival environment that we are presented with in DayZ, basic melee-type weapons have many more advantages:

1. They are easy to acquire.

2. Easy to operate.

3. Reliable.

4. They do not require ammunition.

5. Silent.

6. Extremely lethal.

7. Some melee weapons have other utilities besides being used as weapons.

8. Zombies all engage at what is effectively unarmed melee combat, where range is not a tactical concern.

The thing to realize about DayZ's survival environment, is that it presents the player with a completely different state of warfare than he would see in today's world. In today's world, humans fight humans with guns that are readily avaliable, easily supplied, and most of the military operates in an environment where they can communicate quickly and effectively.

In DayZ, humans still fight humans with guns. But they aren't easy to find, and people's ability to communicate and create structured military defensive points is completely different.

The fact that the hatchet is one of the best weapons to use for a lone survivor who mainly avoids players is proof of this.

[CaptainPlanet (DayZ) 23]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I find guns extremely easy to find, and never have trouble with ammo.

I could care less how much I waste, it's easy to find.

[run4way 45]

even basic ranged weapons, such as throwing axes or bows

Meanwhile in Tanzanian army.

I do not know why you think so. Maybe somewhere it is true, but in the Russian army, in which I served, are still using versions of AK74.

I believe that in life, and even more after the apocalypse, guns == power, life and much more. Who's the boss? Anyone who has BIG gun.

[Polkaman 60]

Only weakness to Melee is that it's so easy to start bleeding, and in DayZ you lose like a gallon of blood a second from a slap

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

Meanwhile in Tanzanian army.

I do not know why you think so. Maybe somewhere it is true, but in the Russian army, in which I served, are still using versions of AK74.

I believe that in life, and even more after the apocalypse, guns == power, life and much more. Who's the boss? Anyone who has BIG gun.

Guns are extremely powerful. I never said they weren't.

But just like in real life, not everyone HAS them. In DayZ's environment, even less people have guns, but they're always going to look for something to get the killing job done so they can stay alive.

[Argent_LeRoche 13]

It's a gameplay factor mate.

If you want to start bitching about realism in it then why oh why is there so many Lee-Enfields in a former Soviet country and no Mosin-Nagants?

Or why is the Lee-Enfield called the Lee-Enfield MkIII by the ammo when the model is clearly a Mark4?

[LumberBack 43]

I use the hatchet not because i want to, but its the only way to get any type of survival experience from this game, without having deathmatch players hunting you down...

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

I read somewhere there are so many A.K's in the world it's scary, Guns are as common in RL as they are in Cherno (Certain types at least)

But Axe's are the dominant species (Bar hunting knife which is classed as a tool)

[Demon20 46]

You make a few assumptions there brother...

First, modern militaries train melee, just because they don't have "swords, shields and spears" doesn't mean that they don't. In fact, you'll find that training hand to hand, augmented with knives, entrenching tools and even tomahawks are common place. And there is ample evidence to support all modes of combat in the field, from a bayonet charge by the British Princess fo Wales Royal Regiment in Basra I believe, to knife fights on the ground in Mosul by the U.S. Army's 25th ID.

U.S. Army and Marine units are actively training and carrying modern tomahawks, and have used them in combat. The British Gurkha's still deploy with kukri's. And are quite formidable with them.

Melee, augmented and unaugmented is a corner stone of modern militaries. One that you can not make assumptions about. No, this isn't the British Black Watch Regiment firing a volley from their smoothbores then dropping them, and in mass charging with their one handed "claymores" and targ shields at Waterloo, but it counts.

You are right though, I would LOVE a better "melee" system in DayZ as well. I understand that the Arma 2 engine isn't "pro" melee so there's some work that is needed. Not sure if the RV4 engine will support it any better.

But I think that to be closer to "reality", a melee system that allows for me to inventory a primary melee weapon and swap it easily would be nice. It's not a stretch to have a kit that allows for very smooth and fast access to a combat knife (vest, belt, boot) and a tomahawk or machette (short sword) on a pack or side.

That's the first issue, inventory of it, no doubt that will take work on Rocket's side. Second issue is item swap management, it needs to be accessible just as all weapon and thrown items are now. And lastly is damage. Melee weapons usually do not fall into the damage system well. The hatchet is great in Dayz, but the crowbar is lagging. A head shot from a crowbar will likely end your day if you do not have a ballistic helmet. Melee weapons do a lot of damage, but it's specific to their use.

At any rate, that's my 2 beans worth.

Would love to see a good melee system in place. Pipes, crowbars, hatchets and 'hawks (thrown as well), two-handed axes, sledge hammers, ball-peen hammers, knives (thrown as well) in all shapes...combat knives...fairbanks for stealth kills, bricks (yes...brick to the head...and even thrown), bayonets on rifles, butt strokes from larger rifles, 2x4's, baseball bats...etc.

I would love to see all of that, good damage balance, good control of inventory, good UI...it would rock.

Out

[Prion 61]

Maybe somewhere it is true, but in the Russian army, in which I served, are still using versions of AK74.

why change rifle? rifle is fine.

[Demon20 46]

"If you want to start bitching about realism in it then why oh why is there so many Lee-Enfields in a former Soviet country and no Mosin-Nagants?"

Good question sir. There's reportly some 7 million Mosins that are NOS. Some friends and I are looking at buying a crate (you end up getting each gun for about $60 us that way. There are litterally millions still in the boxes, cosmoline and ready to go, never fired.

Guns are not rare in the world. Only harder to get in countries with harsher gun control laws.

Here in the southern US, there are something like 10 guns for every person. And more ammo than you can shake a stick at. I got close to 1200 7.62x39 and I don't even count as a serious ammo prepper.

In such a world and time as DayZ is trying to set, the guns won't be the problem. Ammo would. And as long as the game spawns ammo, it's not an issue (even without duping). In a real world scenario, the ammo would dry up. Even the people I know who have tens of thousands of rounds for each of their guns, it would eventually dry up. And modern powder isn't the kind of thing you can mix up at the kitchen table. Takes chemistry at a refinery level. So for all intents and purposes, once that huge supply dried up...that'd be that.

In time people would return to that level of gun powder production, but I wouldn't be surprised if for 50 or 100 years black powder wouldn't be king.

But no, their should be Mosins instead of Enfields for this world. But if I had all the money and talent in the world and DayZ was my project...I'd have a huge world with a huge map where in one part of the world the Enfield would be common, another the Mosin and another the Springfield 1903. That's just me.

Out

Edited August 3, 2012 by Demon20

[deadlymass 11]

It's a gameplay factor mate.

If you want to start bitching about realism in it then why oh why is there so many Lee-Enfields in a former Soviet country and no Mosin-Nagants?

Or why is the Lee-Enfield called the Lee-Enfield MkIII by the ammo when the model is clearly a Mark4?

Can you imagine firing a Mosin in dayz? It'd be so lound zombies would come from other servers to investigate the noise.

[Yarrick68 (DayZ) 26]

Guns are rare in DayZ. As such, they are coveted.

.

What game are you playing?....lol......"rare"....lol......wow.......Seriously if you don't have a gun in hand in 10 min then you need to find a new game...

[Argent_LeRoche 13]

Can you imagine firing a Mosin in dayz? It'd be so lound zombies would come from other servers to investigate the noise.

True but it would be more realistic. Also if you could afix the bayonet though it would be worth the noise.

[zombine122 0]

how about we fix the game so you don't need to reload the axe or worry about axe-ammo if you carry two (one in belt, one in hand) and log out and then have all your ammo for axe in hand vanish and cannot swing it.... BEFORE we go on adding more stuff? :D :D :D :D :D

I would like to see IED's tho, that would be smart. Pop-can Landmine, you've already got most of the stuff needed in your bag, shotgun shells, and pop-cans, just need a detonator, and maybe more shrapnel.... priming cap from the shotgun round + a battery from a flashlight should set it off. Don't know for sure, mostly i am making this shit up from various TV I've seen.

[Yarrick68 (DayZ) 26]

how about we fix the game so you don't need to reload the axe or worry about axe-ammo if you carry two (one in belt, one in hand) and log out and then have all your ammo for axe in hand vanish and cannot swing it.... BEFORE we go on adding more stuff? :D :D :D :D :D

Game engine issue, will never be fixed on Dayz the mod... There is no hand to hand in Arma 2, just a modified short range shooting to look like hand to hand for the mod, hence the ammo needed.

[Demon20 46]

how about we fix the game so you don't need to reload the axe or worry about axe-ammo if you carry two (one in belt, one in hand) and log out and then have all your ammo for axe in hand vanish and cannot swing it.... BEFORE we go on adding more stuff? :D :D :D :D :D

I would like to see IED's tho, that would be smart. Pop-can Landmine, you've already got most of the stuff needed in your bag, shotgun shells, and pop-cans, just need a detonator, and maybe more shrapnel.... priming cap from the shotgun round + a battery from a flashlight should set it off. Don't know for sure, mostly i am making this shit up from various TV I've seen.

And you say you want to fix things before adding more. ;) You are right though...that would be sweet. And quite realistic. There are millions of mines still in the dirt blowing up little starving kids on their way to schools in all the worlds best jungles and deserts...it would be sweet if DayZ would let me repurpose them into new mines or IEDs. Between looted anit-personnel explosives, dug up mines and repurposed supplies...we could have some serious fun.

Ultimately it would be cool to come across weapons caches with 155 or 122 artillery rounds that could be repurposed and used for IEDs or VIBEDs.

Not sure how kosher that is considering the worlds hotspots...but it would make for a varity rich game...uh...simulation.

Out

[gr33nth1ng 6]

The reason is because the firearm is viewed as completely superior to these things, and it is true.

But in the survival environment that we are presented with in DayZ, basic melee-type weapons have many more advantages:

1. They are easy to acquire.

2. Easy to operate.

3. Reliable.

4. They do not require ammunition.

5. Silent.

6. Extremely lethal.

7. Some melee weapons have other utilities besides being used as weapons.

8. Zombies all engage at what is effectively unarmed melee combat, where range is not a tactical concern.

I think for the same reasons wind energy is superior to fossil fuels, the melee weapon is superior to the firearm. Like what Demon20 said, we will run out of ammo eventually. But, I'd still rather have a 12 gauge...

[thehumandove 344]

I want a chainsaw.

[slyder73 94]

Only weakness to Melee is that it's so easy to start bleeding, and in DayZ you lose like a gallon of blood a second from a slap

You take an axe chop to the head or shoulder and see how much you bleed without stitches.

[Kin0 21]

You take an axe chop to the head or shoulder and see how much you bleed without stitches.

Try and wrap a plain old bandage and see how fast you can gain feeling in your near-severed arm too.

[wolfstriked 143]

Just think what kind of stuff could be done with area specific weapons and maps from around the world.Dayz which is set in Chenarus should be filled with eastern European weapons only.Make a map as big as Chenarus but modeled on say N Dakota and having American weapons only etc.Could be a very kool way to add atmosphere to the game.Just look at Stalker games and how the multitude of Russian weaponry and how it lends to feeling like your near to the Zone.

[Mastiff (DayZ) 42]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I find guns extremely easy to find, and never have trouble with ammo.

I could care less how much I waste, it's easy to find.

I dont think that was the point of what he said though...

I think the OP might of been getting at the fact that every day objects we find would be usable as a melee weapon, a hammer, a knife, lead pipe etc etc

[Fribox 34]

Guns are extremely easy to find.

I have an M16A3 ACOG with like 17 stanags, and a PDW with 7 mags.

Raid stary or NWAF once, see how many AKs and AKMs you find.

[switch296 20]

I'm sorry, what? Guns are rare?

Have you ever played DayZ? Ever?