Latest "patches" not really fixing key issues?

[kicktd 42]

Not sure why but it seems a lot of the key issues aren't being fixed by rocket. Tent issues, vehicle issues, server restarts causing tents/vehicles to disappear until the next server restart (players hop on right after the server reboot and forces the server to load without any saved tents/vehicles), infected behavior needs tweaking yet again, and a whole slew of other things, yet we get patches with "Additional optimizations to login process", I mean yeah he's working on the graphical problems which is good, but there are other things that need to be prioritized over "Additional optimizations to login process". It just seems like recently rocket has been cherry picking easy things to fix instead of actually fixing core game components that are bugged to hell and back.

I mean hey this is his mod yeah and yeah I know IT'S ALPHA HURR DURR and all that, but still shouldn't he be trying to iron out the major problems first and THEN work on the smaller optimization of things? I think the dev team really needs to sit down and actually talk and prioritize things, test things BEFORE release, and I mean actually test them and then give us good patches. I'm not trying to sound like I'm telling rocket how to work on his mod, but when it comes to programming and all prioritizing your fixes is a main thing and the more breaking it is, the higher on the list to be fixed it goes, not the other way around where you choose the easy things to fix and just ignore any posts regarding the other major issues.

Anyways just my 2 cents from my view as a programmer. Feel free to flame away but like I said I'm just trying to understand why rocket has let some pretty major bugs go by now for at least 3-4 patches.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Some key issues are not fixable. DayZ is a mod and rocket cannot modify the engine code, which is 90% of what determines how the game functions.

Many tent and vehicle issues, for example, are specific to ARMA and rocket has no power over them. He is at the whim of the ARMA team and they're mostly busy with ARMA 3.

Just relax, be patient, and wait fro DayZ to go stand-alone. Once rocket has access to the actual engine, he can start making real fixes, changes and additions.

Until then he's basically just trying to plug holes to keep the dam from breaking.

[Disgraced 1123]

So?

The dev team can see here what's wrong. They don't need your sage wisdom to suddenly guide them to the magic path.

Trust me, they know a lot more about what they are doing than what you do.

You are not the person who will suddenly fix the game by making this post.

Let them do their thing, report issues (that HAVE NOT been reported), and play as possible. Trying to point out that the don't know what they are doing just makes you look foolish.

[lordopeth 274]

Considering the development time of the mod hasn't been very long, it makes perfect sense why its in the state that its in.

You say your a programmer? No your not. If you were, you would understand what alpha is.

You are not meant to test this mod. Go away and come back in a year when its more complete.

Ps. Programmers dont use Hurr Durr.

Edited July 31, 2012 by opeth

[Mega_Death 23]

Some key issues are not fixable. DayZ is a mod and rocket cannot modify the engine code, which is 90% of what determines how the game functions.

Many tent and vehicle issues, for example, are specific to ARMA and rocket has no power over them. He is at the whim of the ARMA team and they're mostly busy with ARMA 3.

Just relax, be patient, and wait fro DayZ to go stand-alone. Once rocket has access to the actual engine, he can start making real fixes, changes and additions.

Until then he's basically just trying to plug holes to keep the dam from breaking.

This. People who have never played Arma/Arma2 don't realize some of the bugs have been there from day one. And they will always be there. It's not Rocket or the mod it's the game engine.

[ken@thekab.com 37]

Considering the development time of the mod hasn't been very long, it makes perfect sense why its in the state that its in.

You say your a programmer? No your not. If you were, you would understand what alpha is.

You are not meant to test this mod. Go away and come back in a year when its more complete.

Ps. Programmers dont use Hurr Durr.

Yes, we do. We also use herp derp. I just told a program manager she herped when she should have derped.

Although at this point I would be insulted to be called a mere "programmer" so perhaps the less paid, less experienced "programmers" don't use the internet.

[Sinoby 39]

I'm on my phone now and feeling quite lazy, so I will repost from another thread:

"

And let me explain something about alpha. This stage of software development is the one, where new content gets added to the game. Some of the content may not be fully functional or being a complete placeholder. Fixing bugs that don't block testing of major functionality is out of scope of alpha.

The main problem with this mod is it has got too popular at the alpha stage. And lots of people are demanding fixes like it's a complete game, and developers can't focus of adding new features."

So, why do you, as developer, thinks that it is reasonable to waste time on fixing something, that can be co.pletely reworked, once the game goes standalone? Rocket is using this mod as an experimentation playground for future release of separate game.

[kicktd 42]

Apparently people can't understand sarcasm about the HURR DURR thing, because every time someone posts something be it a bug or what not the whole "it's alpha!" gets tossed up. Yes I am a programmer and I also worked with databases and they can be a royal PITA if you don't have them setup correctly. If rocket says it can't be fixed in the MOD version well so be it but don't leave it in there if it isn't going to work. Take tents for example, while great for storage, they no longer work correctly and rocket said there is nothing he can do to fix them duping etc. so why even leave them in the mod if they are not going to work properly? I understand what the Alpha stage is, it's all about breaking things and fixing them, but until this game goes standalone and he has to deal with the limits of the arma 2 engine, there's not a lot of room for growth or bug fixes.

Telling me to come back in a year is very mature, I love to play this mod even with all the bugs but I would also like to see more dev involvement with the community and all. DayZ has grown very popular and honestly a little bit more communication from the devs would be great. But the question still stands: why if rocket is limited by the arma 2 engine on certain things are they even in the game at this stage if he KNOWS they will be broken and not work correctly? Why not wait until the standalone alpha/beta to put them in and test them at that point? I understand he's doing this "to gather statistics" but that's all that seems to be done, the occasional tweak here and there for some things is done but no MAJOR bug fixes seem to be done. He can add all the content in the world he wants, but if the basics are still riddled with huge holes, what does all the rest of the content matter? Where am I store supplies if tents don't work right and won't save? I certainly can't carry around all the food/soda/ammo/meds I've collected and if I can't put them in a tent because 99.9% of the time the tent will just eat it?

People wonder why this mod currently is a PvP fest, well as it stands right now with no way to store items safely, lack of any items to make secure bases (even if the items were rare) why should people even bother trying to survive? I mean yeah I've done it and lived in the woods for almost a whole month, but it got boring rather fast as the daily routine of hunt for heli crashes, try to help people to only get shot at, get supplies, go back to camp got rather dull pretty fast. The infected are not a challenge, gathering supplies is not a challenge, the only challenge right here and now is other players and that's it.

I'm not telling rocket how to make his game, it's his damn game and he can make it however he wants, and no i don't think my 1 post is going to change anything, especially the way this community acts.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I would also like to see more dev involvement with the community and all.

Can you name one other game whose lead developer and designer is also the top forum contributor?

rocket is on the forums more than any of this players, and his posts are always informative, respectful and even-tempered. He has shared more about his future plans for the project and the issues and problems he has faced than any developer I have ever seen, and I have been playing online games since 300 baud was the standard.

I mean, he personally authors the update threads for the patches. And keeps them up to date every day. And uses giant colored text to make sure nobody misses anything important.

Most developers would have a lackwit intern doing that shit, and 5 days after the patch goes live...

Meanwhile Vipeax and Ander are on the forums too, responding actively to posts all over the place.

I can't fathom how you can ask for more dev involvement in the community, unless you're just not really a part of the community yet and haven't really seen how involved they actually are.

[Sinoby 39]

I agree with you, Kicktd, on the point, that some issues really break the game like tents/vehicles. But for these stage of development it is better to have them in and try to find a way to find possible bugs and fixes for them before it goes standalone. You see - community has found lots of ways to exploit them now, not later.

I can not call this mod a real alpha, because, as it stands now - it will not become beta. It is more of proof of concept for future product. You, as developer, should understand it.

[ken@thekab.com 37]

Removing tents does not fix duping, just FYI.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I think they should stop doing what they're doing and work on giving us a option to steal beans from people who post on the forum.

[daze23 549]

rocket had said a few time that the thing on the top of the list is performance. so it makes sense that a lot of the updates have to do with optimization and whatnot

buggy tents and vehicles are hardly "major issues"

[kentk94 194]

I think the dev team really needs to sit down and actually talk and prioritize things, test things BEFORE release, and I mean actually test them and then give us good patches.

Who do you think tests this shit? The alpha/beta testers test these things. That's what we're doing...

Unreal, it's almost like you have no concept that this is in an alpha state.

Edited July 31, 2012 by kentk94

[kriegar69@gmail.com 8]

Some key issues are not fixable. DayZ is a mod and rocket cannot modify the engine code, which is 90% of what determines how the game functions.

Many tent and vehicle issues, for example, are specific to ARMA and rocket has no power over them. He is at the whim of the ARMA team and they're mostly busy with ARMA 3.

Just relax, be patient, and wait fro DayZ to go stand-alone. Once rocket has access to the actual engine, he can start making real fixes, changes and additions.

Until then he's basically just trying to plug holes to keep the dam from breaking.

You do realise that rocket is the lead developer on Arma 2...

Also what the fuck would be the point in having vehicles in the game if they dont work and cant be fixed, no one wants to spend hours fixing a vehicle so they can lose their stuff and time they spent on it a couple of hours later...

I feel like a broken record when i say this but will you fucking kids stop whining on every post saying "OMG ITS ALPHA GET OVER IT" or whatever... EXACTLY its an alpha and we are testing it... now tell me what would be the point in testers that dont give feedback on what they have tested?.... morons...

Edited August 10, 2012 by kriegar

[go4theknees 5]

I've had the graphical military zombie bug for weeks now, game is pretty much unplayable in military areas.

I feel bad for people with epilepsy

[kriegar69@gmail.com 8]

Apparently people can't understand sarcasm about the HURR DURR thing, because every time someone posts something be it a bug or what not the whole "it's alpha!" gets tossed up. Yes I am a programmer and I also worked with databases and they can be a royal PITA if you don't have them setup correctly. If rocket says it can't be fixed in the MOD version well so be it but don't leave it in there if it isn't going to work. Take tents for example, while great for storage, they no longer work correctly and rocket said there is nothing he can do to fix them duping etc. so why even leave them in the mod if they are not going to work properly? I understand what the Alpha stage is, it's all about breaking things and fixing them, but until this game goes standalone and he has to deal with the limits of the arma 2 engine, there's not a lot of room for growth or bug fixes.

Telling me to come back in a year is very mature, I love to play this mod even with all the bugs but I would also like to see more dev involvement with the community and all. DayZ has grown very popular and honestly a little bit more communication from the devs would be great. But the question still stands: why if rocket is limited by the arma 2 engine on certain things are they even in the game at this stage if he KNOWS they will be broken and not work correctly? Why not wait until the standalone alpha/beta to put them in and test them at that point? I understand he's doing this "to gather statistics" but that's all that seems to be done, the occasional tweak here and there for some things is done but no MAJOR bug fixes seem to be done. He can add all the content in the world he wants, but if the basics are still riddled with huge holes, what does all the rest of the content matter? Where am I store supplies if tents don't work right and won't save? I certainly can't carry around all the food/soda/ammo/meds I've collected and if I can't put them in a tent because 99.9% of the time the tent will just eat it?

People wonder why this mod currently is a PvP fest, well as it stands right now with no way to store items safely, lack of any items to make secure bases (even if the items were rare) why should people even bother trying to survive? I mean yeah I've done it and lived in the woods for almost a whole month, but it got boring rather fast as the daily routine of hunt for heli crashes, try to help people to only get shot at, get supplies, go back to camp got rather dull pretty fast. The infected are not a challenge, gathering supplies is not a challenge, the only challenge right here and now is other players and that's it.

I'm not telling rocket how to make his game, it's his damn game and he can make it however he wants, and no i don't think my 1 post is going to change anything, especially the way this community acts.

Dude you just summed up exactly what im thinking right now, Im a developer too (Php, ruby on rails and soon to be Java and C#) so I understand how a development cycle should go, I respect rocket and he is doing a great job however I do not believe he has his priorities straight when it comes to progress with this mod, im getting sick and tired of repairing that damn chopper every day to find it disappeared the next time i log on... its not as if its anything to do with where I stash it or with hackers since its off the map and i have witnessed it disappearing on a server restart despite being saved.

I understand why some people hack since I have to admit as much as I cant stand hackers its tempting with the way things are in this game at the moment... you spend hours... dayz even (pun intended) grinding gear and for what... for it to disappear because the servers fucked up and the code isnt optimised...

And yeah rocket is fixing the screen tear bug now but iv have come back from a 5-6 week break and it is still here... this bug has been around for months and its up there with the largest game breakers... one of the main reasons I got sick of the game and took a break... I would say that not being able to see your enemy in a major city or a military base is quite a fucking serious bug, yet he releases minor patches that fix or add in trivial things.

Ok rant over... at least untill some moron posts "GET OVER IT ITS IN ALPHA"... really I didnt know that i was not supposed to give feedback when im testing a game.

[kriegar69@gmail.com 8]

This. People who have never played Arma/Arma2 don't realize some of the bugs have been there from day one. And they will always be there. It's not Rocket or the mod it's the game engine.

I would have thought the lead developer in arma 2 could oh i dunno... fix arma2?

Infact they have been updating arma 2 quite a bit so that it fits with dayz... didnt you wonder what those beta patches were for?

[MoronToTheKore 57]

I would rather they take their time to get together licensing issues and contracts signed. You know, so we can have a standalone game eventually? I'd think that's worth two weeks of waiting on a patch for visual artifacts.

[kriegar69@gmail.com 8]

So?

The dev team can see here what's wrong. They don't need your sage wisdom to suddenly guide them to the magic path.

Trust me, they know a lot more about what they are doing than what you do.

You are not the person who will suddenly fix the game by making this post.

Let them do their thing, report issues (that HAVE NOT been reported), and play as possible. Trying to point out that the don't know what they are doing just makes you look foolish.

Thats funny I thought this was a forum where people could discuss the issues they are having in the game that they are testing... maybe im in the wrong place...

Oh wait sorry your the moron my mistake.

[kriegar69@gmail.com 8]

I would rather they take their time to get together licensing issues and contracts signed. You know, so we can have a standalone game eventually? I'd think that's worth two weeks of waiting on a patch for visual artifacts.

Yeah thats a good point however this mod isnt going anywhere and its going to continue to be developed along side the standalone game, so the same argument still stands on why arent they adding in fixes for useful things.

Id also like to point out that the screen tearing has been around for more like 2 months at least not 2 weeks and its not as if its a minor glitch here and there... it literally makes it impossible to enter a city at times...

[kriegar69@gmail.com 8]

rocket had said a few time that the thing on the top of the list is performance. so it makes sense that a lot of the updates have to do with optimization and whatnot

buggy tents and vehicles are hardly "major issues"

Your fucking kidding right?

Yeah spending hours to grind guns and such to lose it isnt a major issue, its the extra few seconds shaved off getting into the servers that are the major issues here...

Hey thats your opinion but i know what id rather have.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Considering the sales this Mod has generated, which probably outstrip the original sales of Arma2 by a long shot (in the time it's been out), I would think BIS would be putting in a fuck-ton more resources into DayZ considering the potential revenue to be earned.

I said months ago the arma engine was shit for this (and it's shit in general) and a lot of people bitched at me. Funny how people are now siding with "make it a standalone, change the engine!"

[MoronToTheKore 57]

Yeah thats a good point however this mod isnt going anywhere and its going to continue to be developed along side the standalone game, so the same argument still stands on why arent they adding in fixes for useful things.

Id also like to point out that the screen tearing has been around for more like 2 months at least not 2 weeks and its not as if its a minor glitch here and there... it literally makes it impossible to enter a city at times...

Now that the whole shindig about the standalone is over, I think we'll start seeing major improvements in the mod/game. Rocket has a team now, access to the core engine, and dosen't have to focus on anything but creating day z.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

You do realise that rocket is the lead developer on Arma 2...

ARMA 2 released in June 2009. rocket started employment with Bohemia Interactive 1st August 2012. So, no, I don't "realize that" because it's not true and never has been. Unless you're proposing rocket is capable of time travel in some regard?

Also what the fuck would be the point in having vehicles in the game if they dont work and cant be fixed, no one wants to spend hours fixing a vehicle so they can lose their stuff and time they spent on it a couple of hours later...

Vehicles exist in the ARMA 2 engine by default. However, they were never meant to be persistent for weeks or months on end and have a persistent "saved inventory" mechanic. They were designed to exist temporarily and then go away when the mission ends which is usually less than an hour. ARMA 2 doesn't have any concept of a persistent world that must be saved indefinitely - rocket had to cobble that all on top of it with the hive database and the ARMA engine is not designed to work that way.

For this reason there are many issues with data integrity and reliability, especially around inventory and storage, that are just not easily fixed in ARMA 2.

I feel like a broken record when i say this but will you fucking kids stop whining on every post saying "OMG ITS ALPHA GET OVER IT" or whatever... EXACTLY its an alpha and we are testing it... now tell me what would be the point in testers that dont give feedback on what they have tested?.... morons...

The feedback has been given, and rocket responded saying exactly what I've told you.

What more do you want?

Take it or leave it.

But do stop spreading ridiculous misinformation about rocket being the "lead developer" on ARMA 2 because that shit is hilariously inaccurate.

And please spare me your "I wrote some Perl scripts so I know how development cycles work."

When you've participated in a full life cycle from concept to live ops with a full team of engineers and testers in a commercial environment you can bring up your "I'm a developer, too" argument, okay?

Edited August 10, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby