Guns & Gameplay

[The_Falconer 14]

I agree 100% about getting rid of the 50 calibers. Today i was shot in the legs by one and died instantly. This is complete bullshit! I know in real life a shot to the leg would fuck you up but i mean COME ON.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I think the system in place is to blame for "scarcity" or lack there of. Any mechanic that generates items especially if at fixed intervals will be min/maxed by players, in such a system there is no true scarcity even though that is what one would believe is represented by a low spawn chance. A low spawn chance merely means that the time investment for a given item is greater than that of other items, not that the item is or is not available. Players min/max these systems by looting known high yeild areas and farming, and these factors will always be available if the current loot system is carried over. Some players resort to duping/hacking because the amount of time they are willing to dedicate is even less than those who farm, though these actions should be able to be patched out at some point.

I think that the entire loot system should be overhauled, and I assume that it will be. Real scarcity can only be implemented if the percent to spawn is factored off of the percent actually owned and not a fixed number. In this type of system when .05% of players have a rare item that is capped at .05% or it is in a players persistent storage that item will no longer spawn in any location/server. Rarity can thus be set at a fixed value, but the actual chance to spawn would always be variable with a chance that it would be 0. Some items could be selected to not have hard caps in such a system, like a makorov, civilian sporting guns, food, or survival equipment. I would hope near everything has a hard cap though as I think this would make the game both more difficult and provide an incent for more meta gaming like trade as items truly would be finite.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I agree 100% about getting rid of the 50 calibers. Today i was shot in the legs by one and died instantly. This is complete bullshit! I know in real life a shot to the leg would fuck you up but i mean COME ON.

If by fuck you up you mean tear your leg off then yes that would probably happen.

[badbenson (DayZ) 38]

btw in one of the rescent interviews Rocket said that guns wearing down is something he really wants to implement. just thought i'd add that for all the angry kids with their badass "no, no and no"-posts. it's funny how one dick just takes stuff he posts from another. it's like the dayZ community is one great family of unoriginal angry persons. atleast show some wit or humor. this gets really boring to read.

[Deuzerre 64]

btw in one of the rescent interviews Rocket said that guns wearing down is something he really wants to implement.

Oh, that's good news, sort of. it really depends on how He wants it to be implemented.

I think that the entire loot system should be overhauled, and I assume that it will be. Real scarcity can only be implemented if the percent to spawn is factored off of the percent actually owned and not a fixed number. In this type of system when .05% of players have a rare item that is capped at .05% or it is in a players persistent storage that item will no longer spawn in any location/server. Rarity can thus be set at a fixed value, but the actual chance to spawn would always be variable with a chance that it would be 0. Some items could be selected to not have hard caps in such a system, like a makorov, civilian sporting guns, food, or survival equipment. I would hope near everything has a hard cap though as I think this would make the game both more difficult and provide an incent for more meta gaming like trade as items truly would be finite.

Get my beans :beans:, though I don't think there should be a 0% change. A cap to 0.01%, maybe, but not true -nil-

Edited August 3, 2012 by Deuzerre

[xximrtwoixx 104]

You only get scarcity if its truly nil, even at .01% I bet I could get that item IG within an hour. Even with helicopter crash sites not respawning gear you will get min max by admins were they reset the server to generate the loot, or you wierdo's like people in my crew who know when servers have auto restarts just so they can farm helicopters. One farming trip to NW barracks, and you will have multiples of nearly every item that has a current chance to spawn near .01.

[libertine 351]

Agree with OP, making the F'ing thing harder please.

[sarlac 10]

I always think that mechanics that strive to provide an authentic take on reality are better than arbitrary nerfs or removal of weapons.

Example

AS50/M107 is huge, heavy, and deadly IRL in game its simply deadly there is nothing there to simulate the drawbacks of using the weapon system that IRL keep it reserved for situational usage.

This would be best addressed via encumbrance and an authentic representation of pack/gear storage. Carrying this weapon around should make you slower, much slower. You should not be able to store it fully assembled in your pack or in a vehicle. You should not be able to enter a vehicle with the weapon equiped and you should not be able to fire it from a non set position and expect any type of accuracy due to its weight. These sub systems like inventory management and encumbrance aren't flashy like weapons/vehicles etc, but they are where you turn to provide balance not nerfs, gamey mechanics, or arbitrary removal.

There is a reason IRL that the M14 or M24/700 is used against personel targets and this could be replicated via mechancis.

I am for a skill system for the mod and I do think it should include fire arms, but I don't think it should effect your aim, that is *Your* skill and should not be affected or nerfed by a system. Skills should be point buy so you can make your character exactly what you want. Fire arm skills should again revolve around the subsystems or actions that go into using the weapon like reloading, identifying ammunition for your gun, deploying/readying your gun, recovering from jams if they were incorporated, cleaning/maintaining, repairing etc. If you give someone a weapon they will figure out how to get it off saftey, fire the weapon, and reload the weapon. They may not be *fast* and this is what can be simulated with skills, just as a lack of cartridge knowledge could be simulated, but its the players skill that decides if when the gun goes boom the target goes down.

I like the cut of your jib sir!

[Deuzerre 64]

Agree with OP, making the F'ing thing harder please.

It would make thing a bit harder, yes, even though a bit simpler due to the absence of heavy snipers along the coast.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

If the game is going to keep creating more and more guns through spawning, we need something to ensure that the amount of newy created guns is roughly equal to the amount of "recycled" guns.

I suggest the central server adjust the spawn rate for each gun every week based on how many are in circulation at the moment.

But then we also need a solution to limit hoarding.

But example... if there is more than... let's say 2000 m249 the central server update the loot table for all the game servers so... m249 completely stop spawning.

[Lancewise 0]

#1: Guns having a life bar

Yes and no. Yes, I think having a cleaning aspect would be cool but make it the dirtier the gun the less accurate it is and the dirtier your gun is the a higher chance of jamming. No, to the gun breaking after being dirty. Dirty guns don't break. They jam or misfire.

#2: Aiming

I agree with the survivor aspect and not the soldier aspect. But on the other hand there are the former military men and militray who would still be alive. Maybe have a few special player types that you can randomly spawn as (each type has a "perk"). Soldier - better accuracy. Nurse - quicker bandages (and other medical supplies). Average Joe - no perk (and highest chance of spawning as)... Theses are just ideas and adds a nice mix of player types for groups to play. Almost adding a MMO feel but not with the complicated skill sheet.

#3: High power weapons

Yes make them more rare and the ammo harder to find. In a post apocalypse world there will be military weapons due to the high amount of soldiers fighting the infection but the ammo would be harder to find since the soldier would have used most or all of his/her ammo. So finding a M16 or M4 wouldn't be too hard but the ammo would be. A .50 cal rifle would be the hardest since they probably would not be issued to many soldiers. (My guess is due to the cost of ammo and the lack of money). And the recoil of .50 cal i can not comment on cause i have yet to shoot one in game or out of game for that matter.

#4: extra gun

This is just me adding an opinion to this thread. I think i'd be nice to add an ankle holster for a "Backup" pistol. No extra clip slots for it. A player would have to place extra clip(s) for this pistol with the other pistol clips. so there is a good and a bad for this. Good having a 3rd weapon u can pull out (not too quickly i might add) Bad that it takes can take up clip spots for primary pistol. I'd say make this a hard to find item. Possibly make it a rare drop off of police zombies.

[Deuzerre 64]

#1: Guns having a life bar

Yes and no. Yes, I think having a cleaning aspect would be cool but make it the dirtier the gun the less accurate it is and the dirtier your gun is the a higher chance of jamming. No, to the gun breaking after being dirty. Dirty guns don't break. They jam or misfire.

Well, guns DO break. If the hammer is worn out, the gun won't shoot (for example). Tons of bits that need replacement, and many rusty/worn out bits can cause permanent uselessness of a gun. If you can't replace them, then it's bad.

#2: Aiming

I agree with the survivor aspect and not the soldier aspect. But on the other hand there are the former military men and militray who would still be alive. Maybe have a few special player types that you can randomly spawn as (each type has a "perk"). Soldier - better accuracy. Nurse - quicker bandages (and other medical supplies). Average Joe - no perk (and highest chance of spawning as)... Theses are just ideas and adds a nice mix of player types for groups to play. Almost adding a MMO feel but not with the complicated skill sheet.

It is hypothesised that in case of a worldwide catastrophe of that type, the first to go would actually be the Policemen, and Military, and medical personel. Why? They are all called to the rescue, and therefore, well... die first. They are the ones in contact with the "Threat". With results like the bodies in NWAF and crashed Humvies all around the place. When civvies just flee, the soldier/cop is ordered to face the threat. Oops.

#3: High power weapons

Yes make them more rare and the ammo harder to find. In a post apocalypse world there will be military weapons due to the high amount of soldiers fighting the infection but the ammo would be harder to find since the soldier would have used most or all of his/her ammo. So finding a M16 or M4 wouldn't be too hard but the ammo would be. A .50 cal rifle would be the hardest since they probably would not be issued to many soldiers. (My guess is due to the cost of ammo and the lack of money). And the recoil of .50 cal i can not comment on cause i have yet to shoot one in game or out of game for that matter.

True about a lot of the ammo already being used up.

#4: extra gun

This is just me adding an opinion to this thread. I think i'd be nice to add an ankle holster for a "Backup" pistol. No extra clip slots for it. A player would have to place extra clip(s) for this pistol with the other pistol clips. so there is a good and a bad for this. Good having a 3rd weapon u can pull out (not too quickly i might add) Bad that it takes can take up clip spots for primary pistol. I'd say make this a hard to find item. Possibly make it a rare drop off of police zombies.

Well, there is no point in having more guns if you don't have ammo for them. "Travel light" is a rule of thumb really.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

#2: Aiming

I agree with the survivor aspect and not the soldier aspect. But on the other hand there are the former military men and militray who would still be alive. Maybe have a few special player types that you can randomly spawn as (each type has a "perk"). Soldier - better accuracy. Nurse - quicker bandages (and other medical supplies). Average Joe - no perk (and highest chance of spawning as)... Theses are just ideas and adds a nice mix of player types for groups to play. Almost adding a MMO feel but not with the complicated skill sheet.

Won't work, people would simply respawn over and over again untiil they have one of the above special spawns. Sysetems/mechanics should be designed to eliminate the opportunity to min/max otherswise its all that players will do.

[Deuzerre 64]

It would work if the "Perk" came after an hour of play, with a sudden return of bits of your memory.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I still don't think it would, one hour isn't enough of a penalty for people to lose, especailly if you have all your gear stashed and a group. There will be people killing themselves as soon as they don't get the "perk" or whatever you want to call it. An hour may be enough to deter some people from doing it but I think this would be a small percentage.

I think players should simply have the ability to make their character however they want if skills are going to be introduced, the best way to do this is with a point buy type of system, values can be assigned to skills/increases and everyone is at the same place to start and there is no reward for people willing to waste countless hours.