Why should killing other players be a punishable act?

[Valhingen 0]

I also don't think bandits should get punished in any way nor would I want them gone either, that would be boring.

However, it would be nice if being friendly and looking to team up had some (more?) advantages. Yes, you can join up with ppl you know (none of my friends like this game sadly) or join a clan (not ideal for everybody).

Heck, it could have even been the other way around..dont get bandit skins for killing (I know, gone now) but get whatever, Medic/Mother Theresa skins for NOT killing :)

I just find it sad that teamplay is somewhat discouraged while it usually is tons of fun when it happens.

[Zoop 343]

I just find it sad that teamplay is somewhat discouraged while it usually is tons of fun when it happens.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I don't get how teamplay is discouraged? If anything, it's encouraged. Get two other people in a group, and go raid the northern airfield. It's a lot easier than doing it solo, and working in a group ensures that if things go south for you, you've got people covering your back.

[Oddball_E8 1]

Or to another server if they DC at the slightest sound.

I would love to see some server countdown like 30 secs' date=' you can DC if you want but your char stays in the world... hate it when i see some one chased by zombies or about to die to a bandit dc and go straight to a new server, or wait 5 minutes and come right back...

[/quote']

Ooooh, i love it when they wait 5 minutes and come back... becasue i usually wait for 10 minutes when i see someone DC :D

That way i can shoot them in the head when they come back, and they cant DC from that :P

[Solid.nl 2]

Well i play with a friend and once we meet up we can stay alive for a few hours without to much problem (he has died twice now for no apparent reason and just fell over). But once spawned i rarely go for elek or cherno, i just move inland and get the items i need there.

Granted sometimes after i get shot by a sniper get myself killed because of the lack of concentration and end up being chased by 40 zeds i head into the big towns guns blazing and see what happens. Mostly i just get killed but sometimes i end up with killing someone who has quite a few of good supplies and saves me the trouble of going to look for it and gets me on my way.

But what a trend on the server i am on... Cherno and elek and few of the other coastal places.... Filled with people you cant take a step without bullets flying by. Then you move inland and nothing i can walk around shooting my ak for hours and not a single player will be around.

However once inland coming up to a spot where you know you can find new items, you know that there are not many people here... However you also know that there may be some people here.... So now things start getting paranoia, every sound now turn into a potential enemy, any movement is investigated and by the time you get out of whatever you were in you will have a heart beat that modern science will claim to be impossible.

But i tend to think that most people tend to stick to the coast because they don't wanna take the time to travel inland.. It can really take alot of time to get where you wanna be on foot and lets be honest there is not a whole lot going on while traveling. It would be nice to see a way that people can get from point A to B a bit quicker maybe getting your hands on a working car a bit more easily but that would undermine the concept of the mod so i don't expect that to happen.

But in the meantime i will simply be somewhere inland getting my stuff and its even better then the things you can find in the coastal city's so yeah i am happy enough.

Greetz Solid

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

It's extremely unbalanced in that aspect and I can't see it going any other direction unless you are put at some kind of disadvantage for killing players. Personally I don't like killing people in the game but I will do it simply because the game forces you to it.

What advantage? Every player has three ways to get better gear:

1. Find it

2. Kill for it

3. Someone gives it to you

I've had this current character for going on four days now' date=' and haven't come across a single person since I made it past the tree line on the coast, thus I haven't killed anyone. In fact, in the 20 some odd hours I've logged in the game I've only killed two people, but have had countless opportunities to do so. so the game doesn't force anything on you, it's all about the choices you make.

I agree that banditry should not be punished. It's a legitimate way to survive.

What should be punished is stupidity and griefing.

Nothing should be punished' date=' unless it's the cheating/hacking/exploiting I mentioned in the OP. If you're constantly getting killed by peopl erunning around on the beach, then you're the one who is doing something wrong. Claiming that people are stupid and griefing because they choose to run up and down the coast killing whoever they see is just more whining. Anyone who's played this game for more than a few hours should know where the red-zones are, and doesn't have any excuse for getting shot down while in those areas.

Bandits defiently need to be curved' date=' at the very least identifiable. [/quote']

Again, there's nothing to curve because they have no advantages.

Bandits are necessary' date=' however brainless respawn pkers aren't. Right now the coast is a cesspool just because after a respawn people realize they have nothing to lose, so they tend to act carelessly and senselessly. That's what needs to be fixed. [/quote']

Yet again, stay off the coast. Everybody should know by now what's going to happen if you stick around for too long

I also don't think bandits should get punished in any way nor would I want them gone either' date=' that would be boring.

However, it would be nice if being friendly and looking to team up had some (more?) advantages. Yes, you can join up with ppl you know (none of my friends like this game sadly) or join a clan (not ideal for everybody).

[/quote']

A different take on things, but still no. Everybody should be indistinquishable from everyone else.

This seriously blows me away people. This mod is one of the most accurate portrayals of a total social breakdown after a zombie apocalypse that I've ever seen, and a lot of you claim to enjoy it for pretty much the same reason, but in the same breath want some form of order to be injected into the game world.

There are no good guys or bad guys, just people who may or may not kill you when they see you.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

It's extremely unbalanced in that aspect and I can't see it going any other direction unless you are put at some kind of disadvantage for killing players. Personally I don't like killing people in the game but I will do it simply because the game forces you to it.

What advantage? Every player has three ways to get better gear:

1. Find it

2. Kill for it

3. Someone gives it to you

I've had this current character for going on four days now' date=' and haven't come across a single person since I made it past the tree line on the coast, thus I haven't killed anyone. In fact, in the 20 some odd hours I've logged in the game I've only killed two people, but have had countless opportunities to do so. so the game doesn't force anything on you, it's all about the choices you make.

[/quote']Way to selectively misquote me and leave out the entire first part which puts it into context so my post looks entirely inappropriate and insanely wrong.

He didn't mean it literally' date=' he meant the play style of a bandit itself and how the game forces you towards it.

If you just want to roam around and hunt zombies, cause no problems for others and just do you, that survivor play style is much harder and bodes less rewards.[/quote']As a bandit in a 24 hour period I could net enough rare/good loot and weapons to probably fill 5 tents all from PK'ing for gear if I really pushed myself.

As a survivor who has no interest in killing; to net this same gear and amount of it that could take literally weeks in the real world not to mention people are attempting to kill you and you do not have hostile intentions.

The game is massively slanted against people who role as a survivor, if you can't see that you are lying or clearly delusional.

[Zoop 343]

It might be more difficult playing a survivor, but it's by no means unbalanced, because nothing is stopping survivors from killing bandits and nothing is stopping them from being careful to avoid bandits.

If you remove the difficulty of being a survivor, this game will go down the drain faster than a cockroach. I'm against CoD type players, but seriously? Getting mowed down by bandits is part of what makes the experience so awesome. Nerf banditry and you're essentially nerfing away three quarters of the danger.

Also, in a real world post-apocalyptic situation, who is going to have it easier? The bandits who shoot everyone to take their loot, or the survivors who band together to survive as a group?

Why should it be any different in the game?

[Valhingen 0]

I just find it sad that teamplay is somewhat discouraged while it usually is tons of fun when it happens.

I agree with the rest of your post' date=' but I don't get how teamplay is discouraged? If anything, it's encouraged. Get two other people in a group, and go raid the northern airfield. It's a lot easier than doing it solo, and working in a group ensures that if things go south for you, you've got people covering your back.

[/quote']

Maybe its not worded too well then - of course, once you DO know people that you can trust, it very much encourages teamplay..just that with a lot of people going by KOS, I don't see how even establishing contact with strangers is anything but discouraged.

So far I always try to do the usual "hey, X - you friendly? want to team up?"...and IF someone says "sure, lets team", more often than not do they shoot you anyways. (bad luck in my situation? maybe, cant say without playing for some more months)

I just think it leans too much to either shoot everybody (they could shoot me first otherwise) or avoid everybody.

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

As a bandit in a 24 hour period I could net enough rare/good loot and weapons to probably fill 5 tents all from PK'ing for gear if I really pushed myself.

As a survivor who has no interest in killing; to net this same gear and amount of it that could take literally weeks in the real world not to mention people are attempting to kill you and you do not have hostile intentions.

The game is massively slanted against people who role as a survivor' date=' if you can't see that you are lying or clearly delusional.

[/quote']

I use the term bandit to describe the group of players who have no issues gunning you down to take your stuff, but realistically they are just as much a survivor as anyone else. You seem to be labeling survivors the good guys, and bandits the bad guys, which aren't distictions that can be made here. Everyone is out to better themselves and are given the same resources to do so.

If you don't want to kill people for their gear, you don't have to, but that's a handicap you willing place on yourself, and expecting the devs to step in and caudle to this handicap is absurd. And on the flip side just because you gun people down doesn't mean you're going to get better equipment, so I don't get where your reasoning for saying it's easier to be a bandit comes from. I've looted Balota right as I spawned and walked away with a map, compass, czech pack, and an M16 with two clips, all without firing a shot.

So if anyone here is delusional it's you and your idea that people should play nice and the one's who don't should be gimped for doing what you choose not to.

[anothermartz 0]

I think being a bandit and killing other players for their loot should be a legitimate way to play, but I think it should be the harder way to play because of how much grief you're causing to other players. Right now there isn't a drawback, it's THE way to play and morality is only a handicap.

The best moments I've had is when I've co-operated with complete strangers and the worst moments I've had are when my character gets instantly reset because someone clicked their mouse at me for no reason whatsoever and they are rewarded for it. I don't think people should have that kind of power and no responsibility to go with it.

Rather than bandits being punished or discouraged, it's more that co-operation should be encouraged and not punished so that there's a reason to not pull the trigger on everyone you meet.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

I use the term bandit to describe the group of players who have no issues gunning you down to take your stuff' date=' but realistically they are just as much a survivor as anyone else. You seem to be labeling survivors the good guys, and bandits the bad guys, which aren't distictions that can be made here. Everyone is out to better themselves and are given the same resources to do so.

If you don't want to kill people for their gear, you don't have to, but that's a handicap you willing place on yourself, and expecting the devs to step in and caudle to this handicap is absurd. And on the flip side just because you gun people down doesn't mean you're going to get better equipment, so I don't get where your reasoning for saying it's easier to be a bandit comes from. I've looted Balota right as I spawned and walked away with a map, compass, czech pack, and an M16 with two clips, all without firing a shot.

So if anyone here is delusional it's you and your idea that people should play nice and the one's who don't should be gimped for doing what you choose not to.

[/quote']Putting words and views in my mouth which I never expressed a single time, quote me on that.

I simply stated being or playing in a survivor mindset which is universally known around here as a person who plays for themselves or with friends to not bring hostility towards others and rob their things is a harder path.

I never once said that the bandit way of life in this game should be gimped yet you have no problems with saying I did, funny. I clearly stated the only way to balance out the difficulty between the two sides is to put a PK'er at some kind of disadvantage, I never once said they should be.

You're a terrible poster who uses lies and deceit to further your own personal vendetta and agenda.

/ignore

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

He didn't mean it literally' date=' he meant the play style of a bandit itself and how the game forces you towards it.

If you just want to roam around and hunt zombies, cause no problems for others and just do you, that survivor play style is much harder and bodes less rewards.

It's extremely unbalanced in that aspect and I can't see it going any other direction unless you are put at some kind of disadvantage for killing players. Personally I don't like killing people in the game but I will do it simply because the game forces you to it.

[/quote']

Way to selectively misquote me and leave out the entire first part which puts it into context so my post looks entirely inappropriate and insanely wrong.

There's the full quote' date=' and my point still stands.

[hr']

Putting words and views in my mouth which I never expressed a single time' date=' quote me on that.

I simply stated being or playing in a survivor mindset which is universally known around here as a person who plays for themselves or with friends to not bring hostility towards others and rob their things is a harder path.

I never once said that the bandit way of life in this game should be gimped yet you have no problems with saying I did, funny. I clearly stated the only way to balance out the difficulty between the two sides is to put a PK'er at some kind of disadvantage, I never once said they should be.

You're a terrible poster who uses lies and deceit to further your own personal vendetta and agenda.

/ignore

You do realize that gimping and putting at a disadvantage are synonymous, right? Unless we're changing the meanings of words now, your post just contradicted not only itself, but evey one that came before it.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

He didn't mean it literally' date=' he meant the play style of a bandit itself and how the game forces you towards it.

If you just want to roam around and hunt zombies, cause no problems for others and just do you, that survivor play style is much harder and bodes less rewards.

It's extremely unbalanced in that aspect and I can't see it going any other direction unless you are put at some kind of disadvantage for killing players. Personally I don't like killing people in the game but I will do it simply because the game forces you to it.

[/quote']

Way to selectively misquote me and leave out the entire first part which puts it into context so my post looks entirely inappropriate and insanely wrong.

There's the full quote' date=' and my point still stands.

[/quote']You clearly can't read or understand the English language, not once did I say those are my views, I said that is the only way the two could be balanced out to be on the same level of difficulty.

I then go on to say I don't like to kill people as that is my own prerogative and way I like to play. I couldn't care less about the bandits or this topic, and I will kill them if they threaten me, the game is fine in my opinion.

Like I said, stop putting words in my mouth, I've said nothing in the context you are insinuating.

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

He didn't mean it literally' date=' he meant the play style of a bandit itself and how the game forces you towards it.

If you just want to roam around and hunt zombies, cause no problems for others and just do you, that survivor play style is much harder and bodes less rewards.

It's extremely unbalanced in that aspect and I can't see it going any other direction unless you are put at some kind of disadvantage for killing players. Personally I don't like killing people in the game but I will do it simply because the game forces you to it.

[/quote']

Way to selectively misquote me and leave out the entire first part which puts it into context so my post looks entirely inappropriate and insanely wrong.

There's the full quote' date=' and my point still stands.

[/quote']You clearly can't read or understand the English language, not once did I say those are my views, I said that is the only way the two could be balanced out to be on the same level of difficulty.

I then go on to say I don't like to kill people as that is my own prerogative and way I like to play. I couldn't care less about the bandits or this topic, and I will kill them if they threaten me, the game is fine in my opinion.

Like I said, stop putting words in my mouth, I've said nothing in the context you are insinuating.

I'm putting words in your mouth just the same as you put word into the mouth of the post you were commenting about. I replied to what the guy said in his post, YOU were the one who went out of your way to tell me what HE meant by his post, so it's a safe assumption to make that these veiws were YOURS and not HIS.

[Powermolch 3]

Dying and Killing is part of the game, as eating beans.

I don't want to eat beans and I die hungry. :( Please balance that.

[css_god@yahoo.com 543]

I'm putting words in your mouth just the same as you put word into the mouth of the post you were commenting about. I replied to what the guy said in his post' date=' YOU were the one who went out of your way to tell me what HE meant by his post, so it's a safe assumption to make that these veiws were YOURS and not HIS.

[/quote']There is a large difference between breaking down an insinuation and misquoting an insinuation because you did not understand the implied meaning of what was said.

I broke his down in a simpler form which still said the same thing, what you did to me was warp and distort the entire meaning of everything I said, sorry but I'm not so dumb as to let it slide.

[homeslice1986 9]

I dont think there should be any real punishment for killing other players. A few more spawn points would help, like a few inland a bit more so people have the incentive to actually explore rather than follow the coast straight to cherno/electro.

And the whole "we have to kill people now" argument is pish too, why?

This game is all about choosing your way to survive. Some people choose to kill others, others live off the land. And yes, "bandits" will have more gear than "survivors" because they choose risk. Every time you put a player in your sights, unless you know theyre alone, that you have the advantage, you take a big risk opening up on them. And high risk tends to equal high rewards.

And thats fine. If people want to play that way, great (though I do draw a line between bandits being out in the world surviving and playing the game "properly" [fine] and people who camp a roof in cherno/electro sniping everyone [questionable]) Im not going to judge them, but I wont shirk at returning fire, or even firing first, if its beneficial for me to do so.

[Zoop 343]

Okay, enough now. Goddamnit. Take your spat about 'who placed words in whose mouth' and 'who's insinuating what' to PM. Get it out of this thread so that those of us who actually want to discuss the original topic can do so.

[pack.wolf 0]

I agree that banditry should not be punished. It's a legitimate way to survive.

What should be punished is stupidity and griefing.

Nothing should be punished' date=' unless it's the cheating/hacking/exploiting I mentioned in the OP. If you're constantly getting killed by peopl erunning around on the beach, then you're the one who is doing something wrong. Claiming that people are stupid and griefing because they choose to run up and down the coast killing whoever they see is just more whining. Anyone who's played this game for more than a few hours should know where the red-zones are, and doesn't have any excuse for getting shot down while in those areas.

I think you misunderstood me there. I've stated in multiple other topics that I am opposed to any humanity- or murder-based respawn timers / spawning equipment / whatever.

With punishing stupidity/griefing I mean punishing people that die a lot. That is on the one hand survivors stupid enough to stay near the coast when they don't want/can't handle PVP and on the other hand griefers that exploit insta-respawn to basically get free blood, free Makarovs and free ammo to go on a rampage at spawn.

If there's a group of bandits camping spawn and they are good enough to not die constantly: fine with that. Let them have their kills, I can easily outmaneuver them and get to some safer place.

If there's a single guy spawning over and over again to use his free starting equipment to annoy others give him additional respawn time.

Basically I'm of the opinion that in just about every single case someone dies, it's their own fault. If they die over and over again, discourage their behavior, because obviously it's stupid. Having high/low humanity or a high/low murder count is not part of the equation imo.

A system like that would not favor any play style. It would just make your own life more valuable. If you survive through shooting other players: no additional respawn time. If you survive through stealth and looting: no additional respawn time. If you are just not up to the challenge: get your act together or face additional respawn time.

---

Dying and Killing is part of the game' date=' as eating beans.

I don't want to eat beans and I die hungry. :( Please balance that.

[/quote']

me too, they give me wind :D

thank god there's also noodles

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

I think the better question is' date=' why should PKers be heavily rewarded, while people who choose not to PK get nothing but a bullet in the back.

[/quote']

^ This is the post you "simplified"

He didn't mean it literally' date=' he meant the play style of a bandit itself and how the game forces you towards it.

If you just want to roam around and hunt zombies, cause no problems for others and just do you, that survivor play style is much harder and bodes less rewards.

It's extremely unbalanced in that aspect and I can't see it going any other direction unless you are put at some kind of disadvantage for killing players. Personally I don't like killing people in the game but I will do it simply because the game forces you to it.

[/quote']

^ This is how you worded said simplification.

There is a large difference between breaking down an insinuation and misquoting an insinuation because you did not understand the implied meaning of what was said.

I broke his down in a simpler form which still said the same thing' date=' what you did to me was warp and distort the entire meaning of everything I said, sorry but I'm not so dumb as to let it slide.

[/quote']

^ This is you claiming I'm misquoting you.

So first of all, you didn't simplify a damn thing, you complicated it. DaPessimist made the claim people who PK are rewarded while people who don't get the shaft, which is a complete thought and as simple as it needed to be. You then come along and tell me what he meant by his post, which is pretty much the same thing he said, but it took you a paragraph to say it.

And as for misquoting you...no. Your argument the whole time has been that killing people for their gear yields better gear than scavenging, which I have explained isn't true. In fact, I just did a PK run in Cherno and killed six players, none of which had anything more than what I found on my way to the city. The reason for that is in order to acquire better gear from killing people, those people have to have the gear on them, which means they need to find it first.

[JudgeX 1]

I've seen quite a few people suggesting that players with low humanity need to be punished in one way or another' date=' the most asinine of which is the "wait x minutes per y murders to repawn", and I have yet to find any reason why this would be even remotely acceptable. I'll admit that I've raged a bit because I was taken out by some one perched on a rooftop in Cherno, or because I get shot at mere moments after I respawn, but such is the atomosphere of the game and trying to penalize people for adding some risk and uncertainty into an otherwise tame world is utter garbage.

Without "bandits" what threats are there?

Zombies? Not really, considering you can out run them for as long as you want and their numbers have been diminished to the point that I have to go out of my way to get more than five following me at once.

Survival? Nope, because you have more than enough resources from the moment you start to make it from one end of the map to the other, and there's plenty more along the way.

Without other players trying to kill you the only real threat you would face is gravity.

I for one welcome the risk of crossing through a field not knowing if there's someone with me in their sights, just waiting for the right moment to take me out, or sneaking through town to grab supplies only to turn a corner and be gunned down by a group of strangers, because situations like these are where the tension comes from, not the zombies. So as long as they aren't cheating/hacking/exploiting the game in anyway, I say we let the PvP nuts have their fun, because without them this game would be little more than a nature hike simulator.

[/quote']

I don't agree with "punishing" players for banditry... but, moving their spawn location away from new players and players who don't engage in random PVP isn't really a punishment. I think it would be a good compromise.

[Pat_the_Bunny 4]

@pack.wolf

I get what you were saying, but punishing the players for anything other than cheating is horrible idea.

Seriously, what do you think would be the repercussion of an accumulative thirty second respawn penalty for each death you had? Do you think the game would have got to it's 90k players if they knew they had to wait five minutes just so they could get back to playing?

[Powermolch 3]

Its a Sandbox Game. One of the last of its kind. If you want to punish somebody - Do it yourself!

[pack.wolf 0]

@pack.wolf

I get what you were saying' date=' but punishing the players for anything other than cheating is horrible idea.

Seriously, what do you think would be the repercussion of an accumulative thirty second respawn penalty for each death you had? Do you think the game would have got to it's 90k players if they knew they had to wait five minutes just so they could get back to playing?

[/quote']

I've started a separate topic here where I explain my reasoning in more detail. Basically I think the equipment you get for free at spawn shouldn't be. If you were to collect the stuff ingame it would take you a few minutes. So imo there should be respawn time.

Also, not x seconds for every death, just x seconds for every death within your last y hours of play. Play for y/2 hours without dying the penalty's halfed. Play for y hours without dying the penalties gone.

[ParaB 114]

Its a Sandbox Game. One of the last of its kind. If you want to punish somebody - Do it yourself!

Which is exactly the problem, because you can't. Bandits can (with the removal of bandit skins) hide behind perfect anonymity: no name tags, no unique player skins, server hopping, we're living in a world of anonymous clones where everyone looks exactly the same. If a bandit does indeed get himself into a troubling situation, he simply loggs off, joins a new server and starts his funny game again.

How anyone can see no problem with this situation is beyond me.