there is no need in morality system/bandits term/factions

[n7snk 13]

basicly just to sum things up.

there is no need in morality system.

why? how to solve "bandits problem"?

how to make people cooperate?

very easy.

[introduction] - feel free to skip reading it

Let's take humankind for example. We have no claws, no fangs, no fur, no great strenght, we can't see in the dark, we can't run too fast to excape some shit, we can't eat raw meat, we are very vulnerable and mother nature is quite dangerous around us, wolfes, bears any kind of shit, and still we survived as specie and become dominant.

why? because all this nightmare and our weakness forced us to group up and socialize in order to survive. we don't live one by one like other animals, because we simply would not survive like that.

[concept]

my point is: if the enviroment is really unforgiving, zombies are extremely dangerous and can be killed only with headshot or alot of shots, if there are such things as infections after zombie bite you once or you got shot, if you can starve, freeze and so on, you would glad to see another survivor, because it will be more easy to survive.

the only reason why you will kill him is urge need in order to survive. not because you got bored.

basicly:

1) zombies can be killed by headshot only or if they got LOTS of bullets in.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5848

so zombies will become more dangerous. mb some additional tweaks aswell.

2) loot spawning absolutely random everywhere. with one exception: you have way more chances to get m4/m240/etc ammo at military bases, aswell as equipment such as nvg, gps and such on.

and if common loot will consist mostly ammo and food + other stuff and finding weapons will be rare, getting some weapon will be quite and achievement.

this will decrease ammount of farming.

3) quit/death penalty increased.

let's say you will had to wait 10-15 minutes to respawn no matter if you changed server or not.

kinda harsh but it can be 20-30 for disconnect, reasoning it like if you quit game then you would not play it right now.

4) gear you are starting is spartan-alike.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5608

i.e. 1-2 makarov clips, 2 bandages, one water bottle and one set of flares.

thats all.

in this case you would be rather glad to meet another survivour then shoot him, since there is no much sense in killing person who don't have much resourses to survive, and from previous point, you will actually think should you try to take some1 down or not, because if you fail you will had to wait 10-15 minutes.

to clarify: killing players who aslo spawned is not a good idea anymore, since even if you will kill em you would not get enough loot to survive.

in this case you would rather kill person who got some equipment, and we are going to the next point:

5) diseases and infections.

if you got shot once, or zombie bite you once, or you was in cold for too long you are getting sick.

i don't think i should further explain this point, but look.

in this case encountering zombies will be quite dangerous. and being a loney wolf aswell, since if you got biten you need a treatment, not only bandages and food that you don't have. and if you die you got a 10-15 minutes penalty and no matter what server you are attemting to join.

so in this case you would rather bunch up with anyone, just to make it a bit more easy to survive.

6) so what about bandits?

nothing.

now if person will kill anybody, he will do it because this was the only way to survive, that he will betray, kill and take loot. so this is it.

there is no need to make other appearence for bandits, there is no need in such term eather.

but what people who got some neat loot and all kind of fancy stuff?

and here goes next point

7) rp elemets should be introduced. thats up to devs anyway. there were sahrani life or chernarussia life mods and stuff like that, idk what they are all about because i never played at rp servers, even tho they were quite popular ( 50 people and up constantly )

i would like to state that rp and cti elements should not be mandatory or force you to do something

just possibilities to do various things

and here goes cti elements aswell.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5465

after you bunched up and got some neat gear and you raiding into towns to get transport, resourses n stuff to build your own camp.. lets say like that.

and other features like some1 can start producing food, some1 else can produce ammo, but you can't produce any weapons to make it reasonable to raid towns, other then craft stuff at base. here can happen such things are like trading. lets say a simple table where one side put something and another side put something. in this case owners of camp can trade details and gears for vehicles or building for food n such with anyone who come to their camp. and hey, there can be such thing as raiding camps, but you will think about doing so twice, since people who managed to create a camp are most likely armed and geared up already, so they kill you aswell. don't forget about 10-15 minutes death penalty at all servers. so the choice is yours.

ofcause there should and can be more rpg elements, but as i said, i never played at rp servers so guys who did know better what can work well or not around these parts.

in the end we will get zombie survivour simulator, that would not end ups as deathmatch, but rather continue as rpg alike game mode. in same harsh unforgiving environment.

and hey, there is no need in factions ether. since this is post apocalyptic state of the world,all that random guys who you encounter and who can betray/kill you ( constant tension here ) so such little groups become a little factions, that can later war over some territories/camps whatever and zombies all around. fucking nightmare.

and i guess some1 who experienced in arma rp game modes elements should add someth else etc.

so yeah, constant tension:

hard to survive, you don't have enough stuff to survive from start. TENSION!

zombies everywhere and they are real danger, since they infect you with any kind of crap and they tough as fuck, TENSION!

player(s) you run with can shoot you in a back when you both found some nice loot, or you can manage it somehow peacefull, TENSION!

you bunched up with buddys and got lots of neat stuff, sometimes you don't feel like raiding towns because you may get killed by zeds or other players or loose your camp, so you stay in camp and trade food/ammo for stuff you need,but you can be attacked anytime, even at your camp, TENSION!

if you got your camp established at some neat place like next to military base or lets say pond you may get raided by another group who want to take over, or you want to take over some1s camp and this is a territory war already, TENSION!

so.. basicly thats pretty much all what i got in my mind and what i can summ up about dayz mod.

tl:dr

in short: there is no need in factions/bandits.

full rp mode or rp elements with ability to set up your own camps and eventually territory wars in unforgiving harsh as fuck cruel environment with all kind of danger and possible betrayal, but where you can't survive alone.

basicly if concept "you can't survive alone" and "4)" will be implemented it will drasticly improve the game and atmosphere already.

this is my vision of dayz

sounds pretty badass to me. what do you think?

[TeaLeaf 5]

I agree with your analysis of the situation. If people need each other to survive, they won't gun each other down senselessly.

I'm not sure I like most of your ideas for making the game harder. Headshotting zombies to kill em? With those laggy bastards? No thanks. Maybe make them do more damage or something?

I hope everyone that reads this thread actually gets the message through their thick skulls instead of going back to suggesting broken morality systems over and over again.

[ComboBreaker 9]

All theories break when it comes to gameplay : even a good guy Greg such as me shoots everyone on sight just because it is too risky not to and there are no consequences.Why the hell should I try and speak with someone when I can simply gun him down and feel safe?

Im all for bandits and survivors looking the same,but untill humanity will be done DayZ will stay a survival deathmatch without any sort of socialising.

Sorry if I didnt get your idea - I was not reading really carefully.

[TeaLeaf 5]

Why the hell should I try and speak with someone when I can simply gun him down and feel safe?

Because you will probably need him if you want to protect your anus from rapist zombies. That's the jist of his idea' date=' make the game really punishing so you [i']need other people more than you need the can of beans they might have on them. Sure some people might betray you, but without help you'll die cold and alone.

[n7snk 13]

also, jsut to clarify some parts:

camps should not be a safezones. there should not be such term like safezones, but you can have a trading table only at camps ( just to make it look a bit more organized not just droping one thing and picking up another ) thats whole the point.

about producing ammo. lets say you can produce ammon and weapons at camps, but even it will sound illogical or unrealistic ( heck, zombies arent realistic aswell ) you can't produce ammo for weapons you produce ( except makarov may be )

so if you produce ak - you can't produce ammo for ak. if you produce ammo for ak you can't produce ak.

sounds pretty dump at 1st look, but here goes economy/social element/balance.

what happens when some1 have something you want and you got something he want? you trade it. so now such thing as trading may appear ( and for details aswell ) and not only with strangers who come to your camp, but also with other camps, you find out that other bunch of guys set up a camp aswell, you talk over what and how to produce and trade with each other too. and when you for example deliver ammo you produced at camp A to camp B you can be shot by some survivours, not even talking about danger of zombies, so you most likely will make a convoy. in this case there is no need for ai convoys or ai triggered events, since it will happen ocassionaly and natural by players and their will.

there could happen a top line, when all players got divided in 2 or more big camps(consisted from small ones ) and this is how you get factions and since they got everything they need, they are bored and what they will do? instead of teamkilling people they are in same camp they will fight people from other camps.

and this is where game becoming a cti or tvt.

fucking badass for sure.

also about such features that should get removed imo:

night/day cycle. you may call it hadcore/realistic/whatever - it just suck.

why? if there will be fast day/night cycle there will be more dynamic in gmaplay. lets say you want to assult some camp, you will get way more opportunities to do so during night time, while people who there will have more advantage at daylight, same goes for surviving agains zombies on early stages. so you rather wait over when night will end or be rather carefull and such, and be more relaxed at daylight.

starving/gettig thristy

in concept where you have not enough stuff to survive like food at all on start make you explore the world and always be on short with supplyes mostly, so lets say you just started dayz and got not that lucky, so didn't found enough food to survive and you are about to go out/sleep. there is no need to make you hungry/thristy as horse when you log in. this is not hardcore aswell and just dumb, since even if you are established a camp or anything like that you may join other server or your camp is destroyed/taken over.

i'm all up for hardcore and realism, but it should be somewhat reasonable in game terms.

---

Why the hell should I try and speak with someone when I can simply gun him down and feel safe?

Sorry if I didnt get your idea - I was not reading really carefully.

you really missed the point.

if game will be hard enough to make it impossible or extremelly hard to survive alone agains zombies ( lack of ammo/med/food/and so on )

you would like to meet any1 else who survived and bunch up with him' date=' instead of trying to encounter him, since if you got shot - you get infection, or if you got killed you got death penalty in 10-15 or more minutes outa zombie mod at every server. so there are some consequences.

and when players will establish some higher organisation states about camps and improvised players factions i described, killing people will be not really a good idea, since if you killed some1 you will be dead if you try to get to some camp etc.

try to read more carefull next time.

Because you will probably need him if you want to protect your anus from rapist zombies. That's the jist of his idea, make the game really punishing so you need other people more than you need the can of beans they might have on them. Sure some people might betray you, but without help you'll die cold and alone.

yeah, pretty much it. when zeds will become a real threat, it will be hard as fuck to get some descent weapons by looting around, constant lack of food/ammo, infections that need to be treated after slight encounters with zeds, like they just scratched you and you need threatment, you will feel rather safe when some1 else around then alone.

[ComboBreaker 9]

Why the hell should I try and speak with someone when I can simply gun him down and feel safe?

Because you will probably need him if you want to protect your anus from rapist zombies. That's the jist of his idea' date=' make the game really punishing so you [i']need other people more than you need the can of beans they might have on them. Sure some people might betray you, but without help you'll die cold and alone.

I've read about more durable zeds.

"Hm...Im really low on ammo and this guy Tealeaf who I've met is probably bad at aim and will waste his clip or will shoot me when we'll find weapon spawn...Better shoot him now and get another mag or two."TeaLeaf respawns,kills me or another survivor he sees bcause of mistrusting and its all deathmatch again.

Just an example,no offence :P

I think that you cant fix a broken wheel by changing a wind shield.Increasing difficulty will make players even more aggressive towards each other as loot will become much more needed and harder to get,especially at the beginning,when its suppoused to be easier to team up since players are not afraid to die as much.

I do not argue that it won't force some players to team up outside of the game with people IRL.But I think that most complaints are about difficulties with socializing with strangers , in-game.And it should be looked at as this is the juiciest part of zombie apocalypse.

[Suicide Mouse 50]

I don't want player killing to be removed because Zeds suddenly became impossible to get around by yourself. I don't want to be denpendant on groups, I play alone.

The killings are one of the best things in the game, it just need to be contained.

[n7snk 13]

I've read about more durable zeds.

"Hm...Im really low on ammo and this guy Tealeaf who I've met is probably bad at aim and will waste his clip or will shoot me when we'll find weapon spawn...Better shoot him now and get another mag or two."TeaLeaf respawns' date='kills me or another survivor he sees bcause of mistrusting and its all deathmatch again.

Just an example,no offence :P

[/quote']

well, as i stated up ( i expanded my last post a bit )

all this stuff happens because players and game is not established yet. when it gets more rp elements random deathmatch would not be THAT reasonable/common. i never heard about random deathmatches on rp servers. it was tvt like cops vs bandits or something.

let's say the game is more or less established.

in this case 1st what you will do is search for some basic loot and go around explore the world to find some player created camps to get some ammo/food anything. and here goes rp and tvt and cti elements.

---

I don't want player killing to be removed because Zeds suddenly became impossible to get around by yourself. I don't want to be denpendant on groups' date=' I play alone.

The killings are one of the best things in the game, it just need to be contained.

[/quote']

it would not get removed.

try to read entire thred. i never said you can't kill any1 else. you will do that but to get his loot if bunching up and survival in same time is not an option.

and reaction of player improvised factions/teams/whatever on later more established stages of mod/server.

^ here somehow goes your psycology of killing. so if you murdered some1 shit like social acception n so on.

in this case you don't need to be dependent. you may go solid snaking zeds to get a can of beans with extremely high rik of getting killed, but you would not share stuff with anyone, or you may ambush people etc. but they this is possibe that they will hunt you down. also sharing stuff with people you run with also a TENSION!

[terrvik 2409]

I believe that as this game evolves the balance between what you gain through cooperation and what you gain by killing other players will, if not even out, at least benefit both playstyles. The game should be really hard. It should be necessary to team up. But it should also be necessary to consider shooting another survivor for the resources. As long as there are no "rules" or immersion breaking game mechanics like safe zones or PvP-punishments i'm happy.

One thing I don't agree on though is that the loot spawns should be completely random. I think the loot to some extent should spawn in buildings in whick said loots "fit in" (said it before, but; sidearms in police stations, weaker medicine in drugstores, tools in general stores etc.) There should still be a random element to it, but I like to think that when your group realizes that antibiotics is needed to save a squad mate there will be a natural "sidequest" to locate a facility nearby where it is LIKELY to be and assess how dangerous the trip will be. This will probably make people team up to gain access to more frequently visited and hostile hotspots. And as a big nice immersion bonus it makes sense in the world if certain items spawn in certain buildings.

[TeaLeaf 5]

I believe that as this game evolves the balance between what you gain through cooperation and what you gain by killing other players will' date=' if not even out, at least benefit both playstyles. The game should be really hard. It should be necessary to team up. But it should also be necessary to consider shooting another survivor for the resources. As long as there are no "rules" or immersion breaking game mechanics like safe zones or PvP-punishments i'm happy.

[/quote']

Exactly. No one is saying it has to be impossible to solo, just that there needs to be some incentive not to shoot people dead on sight and ideally that mechanic shouldn't be something dumb like your character spazzing out after 3 kills or you taking 12 hours to respawn if you are a murderer.

"Hm...Im really low on ammo and this guy Tealeaf who I've met is probably bad at aim and will waste his clip or will shoot me when we'll find weapon spawn...Better shoot him now and get another mag or two."TeaLeaf respawns' date='kills me or another survivor he sees bcause of mistrusting and its all deathmatch again.

Just an example,no offence :P

[/quote']

None taken. You could make that decision, but it might bite you in the ass later.

Let's say you kill me and take my makarov clips, then later you are exploring a town and turn a corner right into a zombie. Being an experienced survivor you know it's best not to fire your weapon immediately and decide to run for it first and kill the zombie away from town. Unfortunately you aggro 5 or 6 more zeds while you sprint through town. After getting far enough away to fire your weapon without bringing dozens of the buggers down on you you turn and open up on your pursuers. Your first magazine only drops a single zombie due to their laggy nature, the second magazine drops another two at close range but the rest are already starting to put a beating on you. Unfortunately you don't get a chance to use your extra 3 9mm clips as the zombies quickly knock you to the ground and eat you. If only you had had some way of outputting damage twice as quickly you might have survived...

[Suicide Mouse 50]

This is a simulator, people. In real life there is a very clear incentive not to shoot people dead on sight: you can't because you're humane.

This is not present in the virtual mentality, that's why this happens.

The humanity is not being properly simulated, that is all.

[n7snk 13]

the point is to make it logical to cooperate. thats it.

and add more possibilities for people who shomehow got armed and stuff.

very bad example but still:

you play minecraft as zombie/skeleton survival mode, lurk around for food and such

or you can play minecraft as minecraft - survive agains mobs, build things and explore.

in dayz terms build camps and form natural "factions" and fight agains others.

in this case there is no ai scripted barricades/patrools etc etc. because players will do so, and shoot rest survivors on sight sometimes ;)

and even if you will tell that this will scare the hell outa new people like this is not friendy and i have no clue whats going on etc, people seen that players cooperate to raid towns /take down another players and build camps will try to do the same, form their own camp or any hell like that.

the whole thing is:limiting dayz only to zombie survival is not a great idea. there should be more depth for people who geared up and can survive.

but again you are not forced to and there is no build in rules that force you to do so. but you can. sounds like a nice experiment.

[Paskatykki 0]

There's inherent problem with grouping up with strangers and that is the lack of fully functioning voice-chat within the game itself (text chat is next to useless when in action). In some earlier thread i remember Rocket suggesting BI to try to fix this.

How i see it now? Until voice chat issue within the game is fixed, any such changes that force strangers to work together (even for a test) should be left on the drawing board.

[n7snk 13]

There's inherent problem with grouping up with strangers and that is the lack of fully functioning voice-chat within the game itself (text chat is next to useless when in action). In some earlier thread i remember Rocket suggesting BI to try to fix this.

How i see it now? Until voice chat issue within the game is fixed' date=' any such changes that force strangers to work together (even for a test) should be left on the drawing board.

[/quote']

Pff there is no need in fixing voice chat at all. All devs need is to include ACRE mod, even without radios, just to make people talk same way as direct voice channel, but using teamspeak. It doesn't work like you will hear everyone. You will hear only people that close to you. And since voice communications goes thru teamspeak server, you will experience way less lags then you will when people will use ingame voice chat and use game server traffic.

Disable chat, add acre even without radios, force people to use teamspeak. Thats it.

[TeaLeaf 5]

There's inherent problem with grouping up with strangers and that is the lack of fully functioning voice-chat within the game itself (text chat is next to useless when in action). In some earlier thread i remember Rocket suggesting BI to try to fix this.

How i see it now? Until voice chat issue within the game is fixed' date=' any such changes that force strangers to work together (even for a test) should be left on the drawing board.

[/quote']

Pff there is no need in fixing voice chat at all. All devs need is to include ACRE mod, even without radios, just to make people talk same way as direct voice channel, but using teamspeak. It doesn't work like you will hear everyone. You will hear only people that close to you. And since voice communications goes thru teamspeak server, you will experience way less lags then you will when people will use ingame voice chat and use game server traffic.

Disable chat, add acre even without radios, force people to use teamspeak. Thats it.

Would you need to log on to TS outside of the game? Because I know from experience that 4/5 won't bother.

[n7snk 13]

There's inherent problem with grouping up with strangers and that is the lack of fully functioning voice-chat within the game itself (text chat is next to useless when in action). In some earlier thread i remember Rocket suggesting BI to try to fix this.

How i see it now? Until voice chat issue within the game is fixed' date=' any such changes that force strangers to work together (even for a test) should be left on the drawing board.

[/quote']

Pff there is no need in fixing voice chat at all. All devs need is to include ACRE mod, even without radios, just to make people talk same way as direct voice channel, but using teamspeak. It doesn't work like you will hear everyone. You will hear only people that close to you. And since voice communications goes thru teamspeak server, you will experience way less lags then you will when people will use ingame voice chat and use game server traffic.

Disable chat, add acre even without radios, force people to use teamspeak. Thats it.

Would you need to log on to TS outside of the game? Because I know from experience that 4/5 won't bother.

and thats a quality of players.

[n7snk 13]

also there is no need in squad mechanics to group up etc.

just make it possible to produce some skins at established camp.

in this case players from one camp will know that they are on same "side" / "faction" but nothing like something is scripted, and you cant double cross your faction etc

[FrIEND (DayZ) 9]

Thread that Everyone should Read..

[lmlm 0]

if game will be hard enough to make it impossible or extremelly hard to survive alone agains zombies

If there isn't enough ammo in the game for these fast respawning zombies then all of your point is moot. People will tend to shoot each other for their limited valuable supplies and to mitigate risk.

No, I didn't read the huge wall of text in this thread.

If the mod creator thinks this isn't a game and that it needs no incentive to not shoot people, then that is unfortunate. This isn't reality. People dont' respawn in reality. There is no real pain in this game. Shooting someone on your screen is entirely different than shooting someone in reality.

[Suicide Mouse 50]

I'm amazed by your high hopes on humanity, to consider that making the game harder will change the player's mentality. I honestly can't see 80% of the players acting as the expected.

If it was so hard to find supplies or to enter cities to get supplies, they'll rather shoot a player and steal his stuff. Is much easier and there's no punishment.

And we know that the hindsight thing doesn't work. No one will get in a bad situation and suddenly think "Oh, I shouldn't have killed that player for no reason. Now he could be helping me".

[n7snk 13]

If there isn't enough ammo in the game for these fast respawning zombies then all of your point is moot. People will tend to shoot each other for their limited valuable supplies and to mitigate risk.

some people will do that at first' date='

No, I didn't read the huge wall of text in this thread.

waste few minutes of yor life to get the whole concept, not discussing one element without taking others into account.

aswell as you missed part about 10-15 minutes death penalty.

Shooting someone on your screen is entirely different than shooting someone in reality.

ofcause it is' date=' i didn't suggest to simulate feeling/whatever when you kill person. i explained social / improvised factions element as result of killing anyone.

aswell as such things as cti element which is purely pvp.

you don't need to put mechanisms to punish people for killing, because this is part of game. not bean wars, but something rather complex.

I'm amazed by your high hopes on humanity, to consider that making the game harder will change the player's mentality. I honestly can't see 80% of the players acting as the expected.

If it was so hard to find supplies or to enter cities to get supplies, they'll rather shoot a player and steal his stuff. Is much easier and there's no punishment.

And we know that the hindsight thing doesn't work. No one will get in a bad situation and suddenly think "Oh, I shouldn't have killed that player for no reason. Now he could be helping me".

as i said, when there will be players at higher stages with better weapons and equipment thats logical that people who new will try to take em down, but they in their turn will treat these people same like zombies - shoot on sight.

you consider whole concept to nowdays state, where there is no camps/improvised factions/thats quite possible to survive alone.

well let's say you will start with 3-4 mags instead of 1-2 if it make the change.

the point is, ofcause there will be triggerhappy cod children who will shoot anything they see, but then again, when people getting used to game they behave different.

at some point game will have some unwritten rules, and people will follow em, but these are not rules that game force you to follow, but players around etc.

example:

1) you killed some guy at camp. now your character feel dizy or blured or more zeds spawn around you.

-not really a good idea.

2) you killed some guy at camp. now they all are hunting and killing you all the time.

-sounds pretty natural.

thats it. and since this is more like experiment then a game, then why not?

[FrIEND (DayZ) 9]

Bump..

Thread that Everyone should Read

[Suicide Mouse 50]

example:

1) you killed some guy at camp. now your character feel dizy or blured or more zeds spawn around you.

-not really a good idea.

2) you killed some guy at camp. now they all are hunting and killing you all the time.

-sounds pretty natural.

thats it. and since this is more like experiment then a game' date=' then why not?

[/quote']

I would absolutely accept this for tests as well, I'm not against it, I just don't think it will be any affective on the subject in question. Might be cool to be more challenging but it isn't going to make players act better.

I can't see the second example ever becoming truth. The other guy was not going to magically clear the zombies out for you, and you're not suppose to stick around a place and wait for zombies to respawn anyway.

In case you meant "they" as in "the other players are hunting and killing you all the time", how exactly this could ever happen? It is by all means the best solution, that applies to reality. You damage a social structure and they'll hit back at you. The law of chaos. But this can't be implemented as it is now, you can't differ players and you can't know who is shooting you or other people.

The first example, well it's obvious bad, that idea would never make it in.

But if you make it so that if you kill many people you start showing effects, this is reality and it is a good way to make the killers feel the weight of their actions. I don't know how, maybe depending on medicine, whatever.

The "greencard for killing" is something that will kill this game. Rocket knows, he said in an interview, he knows the players need to be contained of some way. It doesn't mean it will remove their liberty by doing it.

[n7snk 13]

2) you killed some guy at camp. now they all are hunting and killing you all the time.

-sounds pretty natural.

thats it. and since this is more like experiment then a game' date=' then why not?

[/quote']

I would absolutely accept this for tests as well, I'm not against it, I just don't think it will be any affective on the subject in question. Might be cool to be more challenging but it isn't going to make players act better.

I can't see the second example ever becoming truth. The other guy was not going to magically clear the zombies out for you, and you're not suppose to stick around a place and wait for zombies to respawn anyway.

In case you meant "they" as in "the other players are hunting and killing you all the time", how exactly this could ever happen? It is by all means the best solution, that applies to reality. You damage a social structure and they'll hit back at you. The law of chaos. But this can't be implemented as it is now, you can't differ players and you can't know who is shooting you or other people.

well as i said, on later stages of game when it will become rather cti and tvt and groups of players will hold camps/ objects of interest, and if they will be able to produce "skins" they will surely distinguish one "faction" or "band" from another. what happens if player killed some1 from your squad but they all look the same? (means survivours or other factions)

you just go to the seaside or their camp in car with machinegun and make a little safari shooting everything on your way. there is slight chance that you will kill the one who killed your buddy, but may be not. Fear factor: "if i encounter these guys they will probably fuck everything up and i will wait for 10-15 minutes again." and some other survivours don't really apreciate the idea to have another death penalty, so they tell who did that, or may be claim that some1 else did it and this is extremely unfair, but this is post apocalyptic world.

i'm against all kind of end game objectives. i see it as constant tvt and cti encountering in extremelly harsh to survive environment where you can't survive alone ( or can but it's hard as nuts )

you need only an excuse to start a war.

afterall people created clans on fly at ooooold gta san andreas multiplayer even when it was constant deathmatch. so why do you think people would not do it here aswell? ;)

The first example' date=' well it's obvious bad, that idea would never make it in.

But if you make it so that if you kill many people you start showing effects, this is reality and it is a good way to make the killers feel the weight of their actions. I don't know how, maybe depending on medicine, whatever.

The "greencard for killing" is something that will kill this game. Rocket knows, he said in an interview, he knows the players need to be contained of some way. It doesn't mean it will remove their liberty by doing it.

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i really don't know.... it just go agains tvt concept of constant wars with survivours and improvised factions.

[n7snk 13]

so yeah, nothing obligatory but more possibilities