The PvP Discussion Thread

[The Killing Joke 43]

Here is the issue: those who are evil, I mean, really, really evil, are being descriminated against. They have to wear a different skin, and that isn't fair. Pure and simple. You who are good have EXACTLY THE SAME SKILLS, but without the disadvantage. Like it or not, that is the issue.

TKJ

[oilman 72]

Pretend killing someone in a pretend scenario in a pretend environment does not 'really evil' make.

I think the romanticism has gotten out of hand here, the idea of bandits being some kind of chatoic evil as opposed to just guys sitting at keyboards killing other players is a bit overboard. Same goes for nice survivors being some kind of savior, as opposed to just being friendly guys. Acting as if this is a realistic simulation of the downfall of society is just plain silly.

I understand that role playing is an important part of this game. But keep in mind it is a game. While playing, sure, pretend all you want - but when it comes to game mechanics, it has to be thought of in terms of the game and that alone.

[The Killing Joke 43]

True. It is a game. It could, of course, be better, given the proper fair balance. Kudos to Rocket for making a game I haven't been this passionate about since EvE.

TKJ

[oilman 72]

The issue here is just that: fair balance.

I agree that people should be free to do as they wish in the game. That is, after all, the entire idea of DayZ!

But since, as I have previously said, word of mouth does not work from server to server, and that currently the deck is stacked hugely in bandits' favour (After all, it's hard to get a group of four together and try and construct a car - not so hard to snipe survivors in Chern), fair balance WILL discriminate, no matter how slightly, against bandits. The bandit skin system isn't perfect. But it's a good start.

[The Killing Joke 43]

But since' date=' as I have previously said, word of mouth does not work from server to server, and that currently the deck is stacked hugely in bandits' favour (After all, it's hard to get a group of four together and try and construct a car - not so hard to snipe survivors in Chern), fair balance WILL discriminate, no matter how slightly, against bandits. The bandit skin system isn't perfect. But it's a good start.

[/quote']

There is NO deck stacking. You can do EXACTLY the same things as the bandits. Here's a thought: ALWAYS BE ON GUARD! Have playr teams survey an area and 'hunt the hunters'. Bandits aren't guven any more skills than you are - don't say that they do. They're not exploiting game mechanics, they don't have better guns, they don't do anything more than you could.

The bandit skin is an abomination, it's descriminatory, and it should be abolished.

TKJ

[oilman 72]

You make some good points there, and I think this argument (like many) is more a matter of which direction Rocket wishes to go, so it's probably best we simply agree to disagree. I doubt we're doing much good arguing about this anyway when we could be shooting at each other in-game! :D

But I'd like to point out you're using 'descriminatory' in an argument about game mechanics, which, again, should be based on direction, balance and overall fun: Not feelings.

[The Killing Joke 43]

You make some good points there' date=' and I think this argument (like many) is more a matter of which direction Rocket wishes to go, so it's probably best we simply agree to disagree. I doubt we're doing much good arguing about this anyway when we could be shooting at each other in-game! :D

But I'd like to point out you're using 'descriminatory' in an argument about game mechanics, which, again, should be based on direction, balance and overall fun: Not feelings.

[/quote']

Fully agree. I played a char in EvE who was unscrupulous, but fair. Kind of a Han Solo/Mal Reynolds archetype, and I look forward to doing the same here. At the end of the day, the comp is turned off and RL takes over.

TKJ

[memphisbelle 4]

I honestly got to say that I am happy that there are people outside hwo dont care whether there are good or bad guys. In every world there must be the balance of good and evil. Imagine this mod would not have even one single bandit...how boring would that be?

I enjoy strafing through the woods, searching the villages for items and always being scared and exited about what happens around the next corner.

I consider that mod as a simulation about what happens if?...this scenario becomes true...people would try to survive and even killing for that..

I usually avoid other players as I don't play this game with friends. Earlier today I was low on blood and ammo so I blasted some poor random scavenger who was milling about in a village (sorry dude) and was in much better shape for it. 8 mags and a bunch of food. It's all about surviving and if you aren't able to play with people you trust you'll be forced to play like this or you'll probably not have a very good time of things.

This is what that games makes exiting...not only the Zombies...

besides this, I already got killed as well...

[AlanDemarest 0]

But there are reprecussions, if you have a bandit skin you are more likely to get shot on sight by other players.

I believe the bandit/survivor system should stay the way it is, maybe with a few ranks of survivor/bandit, which would give certain skins.

[Goldenkrow 0]

I hope to god this mod wont get alot of random rules and shit. WOuld completely mess up the purpose of it being a sandbox

[Cori 7]

I completely agree. There needs to be some type of way to punish those who sit around and kill other people all day.

[maldoror (DayZ) 1]

when I am sitting in a high vantage point with my sniper rifle, I am not looking for players to kill, but as soon as I see a bandit skin person, I shoot first no questions asked. That's how you deal with bandits. If everyone did the same, people would be much more wary of killing others out of fear of being an outcast.

[Pallidum 33]

Maldoror, that's exactly the right approach, and one that I encourage.

Don't like bandits? Shoot them. Find it fun shooting bandits? Great! You're having fun!

Does this stop bandits? Probably not. Hell no, most likely. In fact, many bandits enjoy meaningful PVP, so you're adding to their gameplay, by creating gameplay for yourself.

Both sides benefit.

And this is why the sandbox model works.

[grounddog 12]

Maldoror' date=' that's exactly the right approach, and one that I encourage.

Don't like bandits? Shoot them. Find it fun shooting bandits? Great! You're having fun!

Does this stop bandits? Probably not. Hell no, most likely. In fact, many bandits enjoy meaningful PVP, so you're adding to their gameplay, by creating gameplay for yourself.

Both sides benefit.

And this is why the sandbox model works.

[/quote']

+1 to this

I choose my way of playing how I like it.

I right now am doing a bandit playtrough. I kill and loot all the players that I need worthy of it. I don't go killing near the coast. I have no need for your beans.

I also don't just shoot everyone on sight either. I learn before if they are alone, are they a treath to me if I don't do anything about it. I take my time with the planning. I also look at the weapon they have. If they have something I don't need. I make them less of a matter to me.

This sandbox idea should be always kept with totally free PvP

Making boundries will just ruin the whole experience what Rocket is making.

"Survivors are pussies." quote from Rocket to what I totally agree to.

When the game lets you be an asshole, it doesnt mean you have to be.

Be a smart asshole rather.

If you do the right decisions in your "life", then you will succeed. Just as it works in real life.

[DaPessimist 1]

Let me start by saying I have no problem with PKing, and I don't want it removed from the game.

However, the problem is that there are no established counters to PKing, and there is no way to properly communicate in the game with possible threats/friendlies.

People say, well get a group, and hunt down the PKers... but that's almost impossible. After you're killed, you spawn in a random spot, probably far from where you were killed. You can't form groups, and you can't communicate with people around you effectively. You can't use a map, so you can't meet up with people. There is no effective way to counter rampant PKing.

Honestly, If you could form basic groups, or at least communicate with people in your area, PKing would be far less of a problem. As it stands, there is no real penalty for PKing, and no way to counter it... other than just shooting everyone on sight.

---

And the more popular this game gets, the worse it gets. The starting points are filled with people playing the game like its Call of Duty. They aren't killing people to get items, or to "survive". They are killing people simply to grief them, because there are no real penalties. I don't have a problem with it anymore, because I immediately spend 30 minutes running inland to avoid it... but new players are going to be turned off to the game when they can't make it 5 minutes without getting shot for no real reason, other than CoD kids have fun camping starting points and greifing new players.

[AmPm 0]

I think my biggest issue is with the people who just respawn over and over to kill people along the coast.

If you are living in the wilderness and I stumble upon your camp, I plan to take what I need. If you shoot me for doing so, fine, fair play.

If people just respawn, run into town, gun people down, die, respawn, that's just stupid. Hopefully when melee comes in we can start with just a knife and force people to find their pistols. Should cut down on that problem nicely.

[kaniho 0]

I find PVP survival really enjoyable. Nothing more fun then hiding in a bush with a PDW, and having a group of a bandits clear out the Stary Sobor tent's of zombies then pop out and mow em all down and getting loads of gear. The only problem's I have experienced really are: Large groups of bandits (5-8) camping important buildings like hospitals, large group of bandits in spawn zones. Other then that, players being dicks, not so much "I'm gonna kill you because I need your beans" or "I'm gonna kill you because your probably gonna kill me"

I'm talking about the guy who's tucked himself away up high with a CZ or something, with a full backpack of cooked meat and coke cans. Shooting every player that comes by, bandit or survivor because he gets his jollys off by making people loose their gear.

[dallas 5195]

Got my first confirmed kill today, selfdefense, lost humanity, but guys should not have shot at me and should not have missed.

[HandsomDan 0]

I find the contrary to OP. Random murders forces me in to the wilderness ASAP. I literally have to do a 20 minute dash in the city and run to the hills before my inevitable death.

I've found the middle of the woods to be mostly safe as well. Simple because of the huge amount of woods and the limited lines of sight.

You do inevitably have to leave those sheltered areas though' date=' and then what the OP says rings perfectly true.

[/quote']

I registered and made this thread because I got killed in the middle of the woods, at night, by myself, by someone who shot me in the back. I was presenting no threat to them whatsoever.

Seriously, all I can imagine is some giddy 14 year old kid jumping up and down in his chair because he's excited how much he ruined my fun.

I don't want to play video games with people who want to ruin others' fun. In reality, people who commit antisocial behavior are excluded. So we need to make that happen in the game as well.

And how do you know he didn't need your food or water or medical supplies? I've killed lots of people for a can of beans because I needed it.

Its the apocalypse dude, shoot first ask questions later.

[kaniho 0]

Did you need a can of beans, or did you not wanna go looking for one. Being on the verge of death would be more than a valid excuse to kill another player.

[maldoror (DayZ) 1]

There is a counter to PK'ing in true sandbox style. Last night we formed a posse of around 8 people heavily armed and responded to any reports of bandits in the main chat, we would surround the bldg they were known to be hiding in and swarm it, they may end up getting one of us but the large group would ensure the bandit would die for the better good of the other players on the server. That's the whole point of a sandbox, don't like something change it yourself with a little bit of elbow grease and leadership. Was fun in the process and even the bandits who died enjoyed themselves. Win win.

also look at it this way. Bandits carry GREAT loot (one last night had a HE grenade on his person) so they are the best hunting.

[eko (DayZ) 2]

This was one of my main concerns when I first started DayZ yesterday... but I have to say, I had an excellent first time experience! I quickly came across some folks running around near where I started. Within about 20 minutes, the group grew to about 7 people and we wound up travelling together for 3 hours or so. I had a blast, it was a unique experience and we ran into no issues with other players. There was a lot of communication between us and anybody we came across about being "friendly" - which I think bodes well for the future of the mod.

I can easily see how there may be some issues with assclowns running around simply murdering everybody in the early stages of DayZ - but frankly this is not the style of game that those type of people will stick with for long. To that point, if you're getting murdered and your first thought is to come here and start requesting there be restrictions and consequences for "unfriendly" behaviour - this may not be the game for you.

This is a survival experience, and co-operation with others is key to survival. From what I've seen the average player is looking to play with others so they're they don't have to entirely fend for themselves. Besides, it's a hell of a lot more fun in the long run playing with others in this type of scenario rather than against them (for me at least).

While I may have simply been lucky to meet friendly people right off the bat, I don't believe there needs to be any change to the PK system or consequences put in place to prevent it - that would cheapen the experience imho. Better rewarding group play in some way on the other hand would be an excellent direction to go in, though even that isn't really necessary... The benefits of survival as a group are pretty obvious to anybody with half a mind.

If I want to ignore those benefits and go against the odds however, I want that option too. It opens up a whole new layer of gameplay.

[Zero477 5]

I find PVP survival really enjoyable. Nothing more fun then hiding in a bush with a PDW' date=' and having a group of a bandits clear out the Stary Sobor tent's of zombies then pop out and mow em all down and getting loads of gear. The only problem's I have experienced really are: Large groups of bandits (5-8) camping important buildings like hospitals, large group of bandits in spawn zones. Other then that, players being dicks, not so much "I'm gonna kill you because I need your beans" or "I'm gonna kill you because your probably gonna kill me"

I'm talking about the guy who's tucked himself away up high with a CZ or something, with a full backpack of cooked meat and coke cans. Shooting every player that comes by, bandit or survivor because he gets his jollys off by making people loose their gear.

[/quote']

I don't understand how you can approve of one aspect of PvP and not the other. If you ask me a sniper who kills for sport is far more honorable than a survivor that camps corners for greed targeting only the bandits because he can get away with it.

[kaniho 0]

I don't understand how you can approve of one aspect of PvP and not the other. If you ask me a sniper who kills for sport is far more honorable than a survivor that camps corners for greed targeting only the bandits because he can get away with it.

Because killing everything that moves =/= PVP

There are bandits who kill for gear and supplies, and there are bandits who kill to deprive others of gear and supplies. Look if you gotta kill someone because if you don't your gonna die fine. I just find it funny when a bandit set up in town, shoot's everyone on sight, and doesn't even pick up the loot. Seem's like a waste.

[aopfin87 7]

Maybe it could be a good idea to broadcast that bandit has been sniping on town X for Y time on the global channel so people know to avoid the place or go and kill him. Crying on the forums is not going to make the sniper go away.