No item respawn/despawn + sleep [Standalone] [Future mechanics] [Dreams]

[ENSLAVER 21]

I've put these two topics into one thread because one is dependent on the other. These ideas are intended for a new engine/standalone version of DayZ, not the current 'mod'. The ideas are in no way complete and lack some solutions. Balancing would be an issue, wouldn't want to discourage players.

I am assuming that a future version of DayZ will have an enormous map with a large percentage (100%?) of enterable buildings. I assume a possible food creation system such as farming or foraging wild foods(fishing?). I am assuming server restarts do not respawn loot and assuming a dead/infected players items do not despawn (body could rot/become infected). It may require rethinking the hive and locking players to regional servers (ie. WoW/etc).

No item respawn/despawn:

In a real apocalypse items from grocery stores/etc would be quickly looted where there are large amounts of survivors. Given survivors would mostly start with a small bag/no bag at all they would not be able to carry large amounts by themselves.

Less populated areas such as farms/etc would be less likely to be looted due to lower populations at the time of the outbreak.

As servers age the costal spawn areas would become more and more absent of useful items. Assuming large amounts of enterable buildings/large amounts of items/huge map it should take a while from server birth to fully looted coastal areas. Survivors would have to move inland and find new cities/other survivors/dead players/dropped items/etc. Forraged foods should be rather scarce as not to facilitate comfortable living, but be enough to survive for a short while (if you are lucky).

Consumable items will have extraordinary value. Example: Ammunition, at server birth ammunition would be plentiful (if it is a US based area....lol). Over time ammunition would become more and more valuable, unlikely that someone would travel from their inland farm to the coastal areas to kill newspawns. (I'm not anti-PVP, just trying to imagine what would happen in reality). But what happens to players hoarding ammo and then going offline? Sleep!

Sleep:

Players will need to sleep. They won't need to sleep a lot, and it would not be forced, but over a long time sleep deprivation can have some strong effects (exact mechanics not yet imagined). Sleeping could also provide benefits in the forms of faster run speed/better vision/better hearing/more stamina/etc. When a player is asleep they can be killed, looted, dragged around and whatever else you would choose to do to a fellow survior.

"Coffee may be added to reduce the need for sleep." -

Blaf

Logged off players would sleep. They would need to find somewhere safe and out of the weather. This would encourage players to set up safehavens, or their own concoction of traps, alarms and hiding. Regarding hoarding of items, this sleep mechanic would keep the items in the game and accessible to other players.

Players don't need to be logged out while sleeping, sleep would just dull sound and vision to a very large degree depending on how much sleep they have had in recent past.

Problem: What can logged out players do to avoid looting etc while asleep? I haven't been able to think of a great way to fix this issue. People obviously cannot be at their pc 24/7 incase someone in game decides to ravage their character in the middle of the night. There could be a mechanic that allows the character to wake if other players are close by and making noise. Traps/alarms/camoflauge/etc could help. But what happens when a logged out character is awoken? The person who finds the sleeping character should have a decent oppourtunity to kill them, knock them out, loot them, etc. I am not really a fan of a player character being controlled by AI while they are logged off but it is a possibility. They could fight (how skilled would the AI be?) or just run off in some kind of sleepy feverish haze, ending up in an area where the AI deems it safe, falling back asleep. If they character is attacked while asleep (rather than just looted) they have a higher chance of fighting back when woken.

As a player logs in they see a recollection of what happened to their character as it slept. It could be called waking up (loading).

These mechanics would stop things like combat logging (character just goes to sleep lol). It may deter coastal PVP as coastal loot will be diminished and players would be moving further and further away, as they did ammunition would become more and more valuable. Though you never know, players might decide to setup some kind of checkpoint camp right near the coast ferrying in food froms far off farms.

Different regional servers may turn out in totally different ways.

Consumables will run out eventually? There could be heli crashes and shipping containers as randomly occouring events that carry items. There's always crafting, though that is a mechanic I don't want to explore in this post, feel free to talk about it if you think it will contribute.

Sure, they are big ideas and I can't say I have the most viable solutions to make them work. Let me know why they won't work or how they can be improved. Feel free to totally turn the ideas upside down as long as it's not too off-topic.

Edited July 30, 2012 by ENSLAVER

[DK Kaylin 0]

I am assuming that a future version of DayZ will have an enormous map with a large percentage (100%?) of enterable buildings.

Not possible -> DayZ is just a mod, which just gets Access to the map. I don't think that Bohemia (Developer of Arma 2) will do a remake of Chernarus just for DayZ.

However: afaik, Rocket doesn't have access to the map and can't change the buildings etc.

[xDIx Revenge 51]

For no respawns... it won't work. Servers will become dead, and trolling would be ammmaaazzzing. Whats this? I found 1 of the 3 high calibre sniper rifles and some ammunition for it? *Goes and wastes ammo*. Its not necessary, in the same sense you should make it so that when players die they can't access the game anymore, after all, in a zombie apocalypse, you dont get lives right?

As for sleeping. I don't MIND the idea of sleeping, but not exactly as you put it. It shouldn't be a state you are FORCED into. It should be something you could do, but i don't know how it would work with servers. Say you choose to 'rest'. You are logged out of the game, but your player body remains ingame (thats the serverside problem right there). You are killable/lootable. But upon return you have extended health, or extra stamina. Something useful to help you out. I don't think it should be something that is forced to players (like hunger or thirst) and it should not be a requirement to log out and sleep.

[Doctor_sloth 119]

As far as loot dwindling down after awhile, it's a good theory but I don't think it would work in the long run. Maybe if there was a system that had a "playthrough period" were after a set amount of time, the server resets everything, including those playing in it. This would also bring up the question of playing on multiple servers. If the system I suggest is put into place, when a player enters a server at the start of a "playthrough" it logs your CD key and you can only play on that server. Otherwise, you'd still have problems with server hopping to loot farm. I understand that the central hive is a necessary evil now, what with server instability and lack of updates, but it's something that I personally believe to be a flawed idea. People will always abuse it, and we can't just keep saying "Oh well, it's just a part of the game," when DayZ goes standalone. Like I said, I understand the need for it now, I just don't see it's viability in a standalone game.

As far as sleeping goes, I don't think that leaving players in-game at all times is a good way to go about it. This will lead to players "sleeper hunting" and just general trolling. I just read about a guy who drives around in a car at night playing "Yakety Yak" over the chat running people over. Hilarious? Yes. But if I wasn't even logged in when I got killed? It might be enough to put some people over the edge. Perhaps a different system that leaves everything on your person in a small satchel, or a campsite that serves the same purpose. That way, you could combat "hoarding" and keep people from getting murdered in their absence.

Since I've given your ideas thought and feedback, I feel that I must also put my opinion as well. I don't particularly like either of these ideas. That said, just because I don't like them does not mean that they're not good. It's just my opinion. What I do like is the fact that you're thinking, I mean actually using your mind instead of posting the first thing that pops into your head. You've taken the time to post a clear, informative and well-written idea and that is exactly what we need more of. Hopefully this thread sparks more ideas and creative thinking.

[ENSLAVER 21]

Thankyou xDIx Revenge and Doctor_sloth.

Your posts did make me think. I agree the hive is not ideal.

Perhaps there should be multiple game modes, a hardcore version, a more casual version and an "outbreak" version.

Hardcore would carry comparable risks and glory (thrills?) as other games that have a 'hardcore' mode. Hardcore should only allow 1 life, or at most 1 life per day/week.

Casual would be how DayZ is now, unlimited loot and player respawns.

The Outbreak version would be more like the "playthrough period" you mentioned, however I would prefer reset on events, rather than time. Server resets after a certain objective is completed. Eg. Get to the uninfected north continent (1000km away? Need a boat or chopper? Takes multiple days of driving/surviving?), eradicate all the zombies, be the last survivor, etc.

Edited July 30, 2012 by ENSLAVER

[xDIx Revenge 51]

Thankyou xDIx Revenge and Doctor_sloth.

Your posts did make me think. I agree the hive is not ideal.

Perhaps there should be multiple game modes, a hardcore version, a more casual version and an "outbreak" version.

Hardcore would carry comparable risks and glory (thrills?) as other games that have a 'hardcore' mode. Hardcore should only allow 1 life, or at most 1 life per day/week.

Casual would be how DayZ is now, unlimited loot and player respawns.

The Outbreak version would be more like the "playthrough period" you mentioned, however I would prefer reset on events, rather than time. Server resets after a certain objective is completed. Eg. Get to the uninfected north continent (1000km away? Need a boat or chopper? Takes multiple days of driving/surviving?), eradicate all the zombies, be the last survivor, etc.

That sounds more likely to incorporate. Game modes are a sure fire way to introduce this concept without ruining stuff.

[Doctor_sloth 119]

Thankyou xDIx Revenge and Doctor_sloth.

Your posts did make me think. I agree the hive is not ideal.

Perhaps there should be multiple game modes, a hardcore version, a more casual version and an "outbreak" version.

Hardcore would carry comparable risks and glory (thrills?) as other games that have a 'hardcore' mode. Hardcore should only allow 1 life, or at most 1 life per day/week.

Casual would be how DayZ is now, unlimited loot and player respawns.

The Outbreak version would be more like the "playthrough period" you mentioned, however I would prefer reset on events, rather than time. Server resets after a certain objective is completed. Eg. Get to the uninfected north continent (1000km away? Need a boat or chopper? Takes multiple days of driving/surviving?), eradicate all the zombies, be the last survivor, etc.

See? That's what I'm talking about. I think that's a fantastic idea, and you even have a name for it! Outbreak mode. That sounds pretty wicked, and having a "group goal" is the way to go in my opinion. Maybe having a server-cap of only 10-15 survivors, combined with the hardcore mode you suggested so that once you die, that's it. You're dead and the group suffers for it. And I like the idea of "escaping", which is certainly a viable option, but perhaps there could be several different objectives. Something like escaping could be a "quick match", if you will, just a mad dash up north grabbing as much as you need to survive on the way. (by "quick" I mean around 2-3 days) Something more long-term could be something like setting up a base, or settlement and possibly even eradicating (or outlasting) the infection. Coupled with the roaming zombie packs that have been suggested, I think this would be a great gamemode for groups of friends or even clans.

Just expanding a little on your ideas, hope we can keep this thread going. I hate to see great ideas get forgotten. Thanks for reading!

[ENSLAVER 21]

There is a mod that is similar to what you described with a small number of players and 1 life per character, it's called Chernarus Apocalypse, quite fun :D

I've been thinking and stuff like "outbreak" mode might get a bit tiresome with everyone running straight to the same military base or chopper spawn.

This is a bigger more encompassing idea than the ones I originally posted though they would benefit from it. One day if I put more thought into it I might post it as it's own suggestion.

The map could be generated procedurally and randomized. The coding/testing would definitely take a lot more work than a standard map, but that being said, there would be an infinite amount of maps possible from 1 procedurally generated map.

Basic concepts of this have been shown to work in simple games like Diablo and Age of Empires. If it could be implemented on a huge scale it would definitely be a huge boon to the game making the replayability immense.

Edited August 1, 2012 by ENSLAVER

[ScottyTheEngineer 47]

That's some interesting ideas.

I think the sleeping system might work pretty well in conjunction with safe havens like the underground bases proposed by Rocket. Your character would have the need to sleep after a certain period of time and if you don't, this will have negative consequences. These might include slower speed, decreased carrying ability (so you might drop items eventually) or even passing out. Therefore players could choose between returning to a safe base to sleep without the possibility of being robbed/killed, or sleeping in the wild.

I'm not sure about the removal of the loot spawn. Players would eventually run out of ammo/medical supplies etc. if servers are not restarted regularly. If saving is done on the hive, a new server would be instantly overrun by players in order to loot it for the new supplies. Servers with different modes might be a solution indeed and I'd like to give it a try while the mod is in alpha to see how it works.

[Golgo82 28]

No offense but all of your ideas are kind of gamebreaking and are most definitely never going to happen.

A "sleeping character ingame while you are logged out..lol no. Never going to happen, you log out, you are most probably dead when logging in . This will never get implemented.

Not to mention that scarcity of any kind will mean a massive increase in player killing.

I dont consider myself a "bandit" but i will kill anyone that is armed enough to get me killed if they might choose so. with this implemented i would even go and hunt those without weapons..since its the only way to get..well anything.

No sir.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Golgo82

[ENSLAVER 21]

No offense but all of your ideas are kind of gamebreaking and are most definitely never going to happen.

A "sleeping character ingame while you are logged out..lol no. Never going to happen, you log out, you are most probably dead when logging in . This will never get implemented.

Not to mention that scarcity of any kind will mean a massive increase in player killing.

I dont consider myself a "bandit" but i will kill anyone that is armed enough to get me killed if they might choose so. with this implemented i would even go and hunt those without weapons..since its the only way to get..well anything.

No sir.

No offense taken =)

Gamebreaker for some, maker for others. It would be a hard balancing act. The scarcity of objects would be one thing that would need a lot of balancing.The map would have to be big enough and have enough places people could hide and sleep. There would need to be enough 'building' as to enable blocking of entrances/traps/alarms. Large groups of players might form that allow some to sleep while others keep watch. Player killing could be made a disadvantage by things like harder zombies, bloodbags, other medical or weapons specializing (synergistic items rather than skills, eg. a medikit that fills up most of your inventory, or a rocket launcher that fills up most of your inventory, item based classes that would benefit from working together), etc.

I mentioned possiblity of AI controlling your character and different mechanics triggering fight or flight (running until the AI determines your character is in a safe place and falling back to sleep).

I'd love upon logging in (could play while loading) for a replay to be shown of the nights events. It could have different camera angles or the point of view of the attacker.

In the end, so what if you log in to find that you had been murdered for your beans? Will you be mad? Ragequit?

Edited August 1, 2012 by ENSLAVER

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I like the idea of persistent loot or even variable capped loot, ie the percentage of loot that exists in game already determines the probability of loot spawning. Capping loot would allow you to ensure that certain things continue to spawn ie have no cap like food/water but others are very limited like main rotor assemblies, certain ammo types, etc. This type of system could exhist on all servers, but I think that a persistent total number would have to be limited to certain servers running a unique game mode, I am all in favor of that though.

I think persistent time passage would enable all kinds of interesting features, degrading power, water, gear, increasing number of infected, escape, and even bugging in. Limit a CD key to one character per unique session and have a true survival competition. Players would still be able to play normal servers after they die, or maybe they could play as infected after their death in an attempt to get to the next session faster.

I don't like the idea of exhisting in the game world while you are logged out, I think your surplus gear/items should but I don't think that the players body should. I would be open to food/blood degrading while logged out especially in a "session" based server.

[Bjorn9486 9]

I like this idea but many servers do restarts multiple times a day to keep it daytime. This would re-spawn all the items and make them all more common.

[ENSLAVER 21]

I like the idea of persistent loot or even variable capped loot, ie the percentage of loot that exists in game already determines the probability of loot spawning. Capping loot would allow you to ensure that certain things continue to spawn ie have no cap like food/water but others are very limited like main rotor assemblies, certain ammo types, etc. This type of system could exhist on all servers, but I think that a persistent total number would have to be limited to certain servers running a unique game mode, I am all in favor of that though.

I think persistent time passage would enable all kinds of interesting features, degrading power, water, gear, increasing number of infected, escape, and even bugging in. Limit a CD key to one character per unique session and have a true survival competition. Players would still be able to play normal servers after they die, or maybe they could play as infected after their death in an attempt to get to the next session faster.

I don't like the idea of exhisting in the game world while you are logged out, I think your surplus gear/items should but I don't think that the players body should. I would be open to food/blood degrading while logged out especially in a "session" based server.

Loot dependent on player population is a nice idea but it would be heavily tied into what kind of server structure they eventually go with. I don't believe population based loot spawning is the best solution if the new server system works like WoW. Unpopulated hives would be more attractive because of more loot and attract more players, evening things out in the long run.

Persistent time passage is a great way of wording it :D You made me think about other things apart from loot, INFECTED! Non respawning infected. Dead players become NPC infected but infected don't endlessly spawn. It would be tricky to balance infected population vs server performance, but heres hoping that the new standalone is a lot better optimized for huge numbers of infected. This would work well with the idea of having an extremely large map where the player population moves away from cities and coastal areas to safer areas (north?).

Why are you not a fan of keeping your character in game when logged out? (just curious). I'm not sure of any game where your body stays in the world when you log out. It could be a real feature. But you are right it would depend on the type of server.