Idea to sort out some trust issues

[Kowalski (DayZ) 19]

Ok this may be a long post but stick with me if you have time.

I've been playing for a couple of weeks and, like many, I started off with an idealist approach of working together with survivors I came across - always trying to open dialogue and certainly not looking to kill anything that wasn't trying to eat my brains.

And, like many over time, came to the realisation that 99% of people you come across will kill me you site, no questions asked.

Which kinda kills trust in other players. Hence you take on the attitude of 'canna beat em join em'. Which most of the community now has.

So here's my idea to get some trust back into the game, give the survivors a chance and ultimately balance the game a bit more.

When you initially spawn you should be given the option to be either a Bandit or a Survivor. This choice would basically create 2 teams in the game and each team would have a certain group of costumes so each team could be separated visually in game. Survivors as they are now, bandits maybe having more worn rough clothing.

To encourage trust in the game between the survivors, Friendly fire would be turned off for the survivors so a survivor could not kill another survivor (the way it kinda should be) but obviously Survivors can still kill bandits. So if you see a guy in the distance you could scout him out - if you see he is a survivor you can approach safe in the knowledge he wont kill you and maybe trade or work together a bit. (and hope a bandit wasn't scouting you both out with a sniper)

The Bandits would have no such protection from their own kind (friendly fire on) cus hey their bandits and they should expect to get shot in the back by fellow bandits.

As your character develops, you should have to choice to change play style and change class to either a bandit or a survivor. Although this change should have a cooling off period (maybe a few hours of gameplay) to avoid players in a group of survivors immediately changing to a bandit and killing everyone. And maybe during this cool off period there could be some visual clue as to the change in terms of clothing. A group of survivors would then have to keep an eye on each other to make sure no one in their group was planning to betray them - which I think would create a kinda cool dynamic.

Anyway just an idea to maybe balance the game a little and get some teamwork and trust back into the game. Let me know what you think.

[Beanus 61]

I'm not sure if I'm for or against it...

[Colditz 54]

I think it's a great idea, honestly, maybe not the "best" solution but probably the best I've read yet. I'm all for something being done against the ludicrous amount of deathmatching going on in DayZ. I mean, sure, it's a Zombie Apocalypse, but seriously? There's a WAR going on in Elektro and Chernogorsk, going as far as groups of 10-20's clashing against each other with grenade launchers, light-machine guns and satchel charges. Most of the time I get close to the coast to take a look at cherno I can't tell if I'm playing a Zombie Simulator or if I got ported back in time to the Normandy Landing, sure sounds and looks like it.

[Bukethead 96]

Eh, the more we turn this into team deathmatch the worse it will get. Choosing whether or not you want to be a Survivor or Bandit may sound like a good idea, but it's not realistic. Consider the first time someone plays, they probably do not a have a bloodlust or a thirst for new gear via killing someone, they're just happy to have a Czech pack and a shotgun. Where as down the line they may develop such a thing and would become a bandit. Having it be a choice from the git-go detracts from the transformation shall we say, and would cause people to either be super nice or super evil, no happy medium in between.

You can't just consider those who have been playing for some time now, you have to also figure in first timers and such.

As I've said in other posts, this latest update limiting respawn to when your character physically dies causes people to have to find their way to Elektro or Cherno, which before was accomplished by simply repeatedly pressing respawn.

Having this in the game means people will be far less likely to kill someone if they think there's a reasonable chance they'll shoot back and kill them, forcing them to start all over. Starting over was fun when it was really easy to get to a decent starter area, but now that respawn is restricted, if you spawn in say Kamenka, you'll have to find your way to Cherno without getting eaten or shot, and fight your way out doing the same.

I think due to this, we will see a rise in people asking questions then shooting, not a complete conversion to or anything like that, but so far it seems this has caused people to be a bit more cautious than they were previously. I think this will solve the problem much more efficiently rather than teams.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Bukethead

[ollox 38]

No no no no no no no no! Stop thinking like this people. If you want to solve issues with trust think about what you would do in real life. You can't go behind the scenes and pull some strings to force everyone act a certain way! Be realistic.

We need safe ways for people to communicate at distance, whether they have a mic or not, there have to be ways to signal your intent and I know there are already a few like surrender and salute but these could be developed and added to with more hand signals and stock phrases like "don't shoot!", "friendly!", "freeze!" and "drop your weapon!"

[Kykle 1]

Ok, so friendly fire will never be turned off. Earlier versions of the mod I believe had a visual indication that someone was a bandit. But it was removed to provide more realism. The player must trust his instincts to survive. I do believe that there is one thing though, if you put your cross hair over a person at close range a heart beat sound can be faintly heard telling you he has killed before. But don't be too quick to judge many players have acquired a murder or two protecting themselves or a friend. No server set teams will ever be in place. It is all player created. Rocket is making the best game in the world and we are helping shape it. If it were easy. It would have a title including words like "Call" or "Duty" No one is going to hold your hand in the wasteland. Unless you have a big gun and a can of beans.

[Kowalski (DayZ) 19]

I think it would encourage teamwork from within the game - rather than groups of people who have got together outside the game from a forum etc.

And would give survivors a chance of grouping together.

Cus lets face it at the min the game is 99% bandits and the other 1% just haven't played the game long enough to realise that's the way you need to play.

[Kowalski (DayZ) 19]

Eh, the more we turn this into team deathmatch the worse it will get. Choosing whether or not you want to be a Survivor or Bandit may sound like a good idea, but it's not realistic. Consider the first time someone plays, they probably do not a have a bloodlust or a thirst for new gear via killing someone, they're just happy to have a Czech pack and a shotgun. Where as down the line they may develop such a thing and would become a bandit. Having it be a choice from the git-go detracts from the transformation shall we say, and would cause people to either be super nice or super evil, no happy medium in between.

I mentioned people should be allowed to change in game - with a cooling off period - so choice at the start dont have to be forever.

And in terms of realism, having the bandits able to kill anyone but also be killed by anyone and the survivors only able to kill bandits or be killed by them would create a realistic dynamic. Admittedly using game mechanics to do it. But I think it needs doing as 99% bandits in the world isn't realsitc it's just a symptom of the current game dynamics.

[paradox. 12]

Ok this may be a long post but stick with me if you have time.

I've been playing for a couple of weeks and, like many, I started off with an idealist approach of working together with survivors I came across - always trying to open dialogue and certainly not looking to kill anything that wasn't trying to eat my brains.

And, like many over time, came to the realisation that 99% of people you come across will kill me you site, no questions asked.

Which kinda kills trust in other players. Hence you take on the attitude of 'canna beat em join em'. Which most of the community now has.

So here's my idea to get some trust back into the game, give the survivors a chance and ultimately balance the game a bit more.

When you initially spawn you should be given the option to be either a Bandit or a Survivor. This choice would basically create 2 teams in the game and each team would have a certain group of costumes so each team could be separated visually in game. Survivors as they are now, bandits maybe having more worn rough clothing.

To encourage trust in the game between the survivors, Friendly fire would be turned off for the survivors so a survivor could not kill another survivor (the way it kinda should be) but obviously Survivors can still kill bandits. So if you see a guy in the distance you could scout him out - if you see he is a survivor you can approach safe in the knowledge he wont kill you and maybe trade or work together a bit. (and hope a bandit wasn't scouting you both out with a sniper)

The Bandits would have no such protection from their own kind (friendly fire on) cus hey their bandits and they should expect to get shot in the back by fellow bandits.

As your character develops, you should have to choice to change play style and change class to either a bandit or a survivor. Although this change should have a cooling off period (maybe a few hours of gameplay) to avoid players in a group of survivors immediately changing to a bandit and killing everyone. And maybe during this cool off period there could be some visual clue as to the change in terms of clothing. A group of survivors would then have to keep an eye on each other to make sure no one in their group was planning to betray them - which I think would create a kinda cool dynamic.

Anyway just an idea to maybe balance the game a little and get some teamwork and trust back into the game. Let me know what you think.

I think it would encourage teamwork from within the game - rather than groups of people who have got together outside the game from a forum etc.

And would give survivors a chance of grouping together.

Cus lets face it at the min the game is 99% bandits and the other 1% just haven't played the game long enough to realise that's the way you need to play.

Good idea but it kinda ruins the realism and the mystery if someone is friendly or not and if you will shoot them or try and talk it out.

[Kykle 1]

No no no no no no no no! Stop thinking like this people. If you want to solve issues with trust think about what you would do in real life. You can't go behind the scenes and pull some strings to force everyone act a certain way! Be realistic.

We need safe ways for people to communicate at distance, whether they have a mic or not, there have to be ways to signal your intent and I know there are already a few like surrender and salute but these could be developed and added to with more hand signals and stock phrases like "don't shoot!", "friendly!", "freeze!" and "drop your weapon!"

I haven't heard that one yet and it's so simple that's actually not a bad idea. Just a couple basic phrases for those how don't have a mic.

Half of the time someone is killed during a confrontation is due to the inability to respond.

[Kowalski (DayZ) 19]

"Good idea but it kinda ruins the realism and the mystery if someone is friendly or not and if you will shoot them or try and talk it out."

But at the min their is no mystery in this - I thought there would be when I first started playing - but now their is no mystery.

People shoot on site - no questions asked - no attempt to open dialogue.

[Bukethead 96]

I mentioned people should be allowed to change in game - with a cooling off period - so choice at the start dont have to be forever.

And in terms of realism, having the bandits able to kill anyone but also be killed by anyone and the survivors only able to kill bandits or be killed by them would create a realistic dynamic. Admittedly using game mechanics to do it. But I think it needs doing as 99% bandits in the world isn't realsitc it's just a symptom of the current game dynamics.

Well wait, isn't something like this already in place? I mean you start out as a survivor whether you want to or not and if your end goal is to become a bandit then you will be, and if you wish to stay a survivor, you will make an honest effort to do so.

I don't think having a team system that you can switch from would at all save anyone from having to kill someone or be killed by someone, and I doubt anyone else here thinks that either.

99% bandits? There aren't that many I can assure you. it's over 50% currently but I think that will balance out as we continue to get new players, and the mechanic that makes you a bandit is improved.

[savini 587]

Not sure if you are aware, but awhile ago we used to have designated skins for bandits and survivors. If you killed too many people (based on humanity) your char would switch to a bandit skin. Over time your humanity level would go back up until you reached the threshold and the skin would go back to survivor. Regardless, I think you're missing the point.

DayZ is a sandbox survival game. We are all allowed to do and play as we wish. Some of us take precautions, some of us are assholes, but all of us have the same capabilities.

[EDIT: I suppose the main thing to remember is "Don't focus on your gear". Gear happens, we'll find gear every time we play. Relinquish your affection for weapons, and death becomes an opportunity to start fresh. Without worrying about getting killed and losing items.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Rhodes

[Kykle 1]

Anyone at anytime should always have the ability to shoot someone in the back. It's realistic. "People shoot on site - no questions asked - no attempt to open dialogue." You sir have lost hope in humanity.

[Kowalski (DayZ) 19]

Well wait, isn't something like this already in place? I mean you start out as a survivor whether you want to or not and if your end goal is to become a bandit then you will be, and if you wish to stay a survivor, you will make an honest effort to do so.

I don't think having a team system that you can switch from would at all save anyone from having to kill someone or be killed by someone, and I doubt anyone else here thinks that either.

99% bandits? There aren't that many I can assure you. it's over 50% currently but I think that will balance out as we continue to get new players, and the mechanic that makes you a bandit is improved.

What ideas do you think could be implemented to improve the mechanics of being a bandit are?

[LeOverlord 150]

I disagree...

Their should be no visual cues showing murders...

Most people seem to believe that if you murder a few people your suddenly unable to maintain your appearance...

I've lost all sort of gear to KOS bandits...

SVD's, NVG's, M107, M4 CCO SD's, fuck you name it, I've lost it...

But guess what..?

I still ask first, and usually they will either shoot me or talk to me...

You want a trust system in this game...

Don't shoot people and and talk to them...

Start building trust the way your supposed to...

[S3V3N 1402]

I understand and sympathize with your goals, but this is not going to work. Turning ff off and other intrusive mechanisms, like making you pick your side at the beginning, clash too much with the dynamics of the game of being open sandbox. This also means Dayz is a game where you are open to change. You may be a bandit at one time, but it should be able to return to the path of justice, too.

I have given it a lot of thought myself, and I have come to the conclusion that one thing to unite people is to make cooperation more worthwhile. That means if people with different equipment and skills work together they can achieve more than one person alone.

Example:

one person can repair a car.Two people can build one from parts and when they meet on a scrapyard. Two players and one with a Saw can build a car that has a mg on the co-driver's side. There need to be more items to encourage that kind of cooperation. Trust can develop if you know you will need another player to make the most out of things. With two people + you could repair generators and refuel them, build hideouts (so you can start a fire when it rains) and generally bring back some kind of civilisation.

Two players working together could clean an area of zombies, while one protects the other when he is dragging dead zombies to a pile. 3 or more zombies form a pile that can be lit up. Once all zombies in a radius have been cleared, there won't be any respawning there for two hours. Then you can use a flare gun and send a signal that you want to trade. It's all this kind of stuff that makes working together fun and rewarding.

Of course deathmatching will still happen, so another suggestion would be to split the inventory (backpack + gear) into a public and a private section. Other players can take something from the public slots, but the private ones will be locked. When you die only the items in the public slots will be accessible, while the rest is lost for good. That's one way to couteract the constant looting by making it less rewarding to kill someone. At the moment, killing another player is better than looting a supermarket.

Another remedy against killing players is developing addictions to counteract the nightmares you would get in real life, too. So murderers will actually need painkillers on a frequent base, or morphium, etc. which will make it less deserving to kill people at sight. It could also be that you will overdose or start fainting when you kill too much and take too many meds. Awesome would be, if it could visually be shown and people who murder a lot and develop addictions become dirty, pale and thin.

Edited July 29, 2012 by S3V3N

[Kykle 1]

What ideas do you think could be implemented to improve the mechanics of being a bandit are?

The mechanics already in the making. Over time a player will grow out hair his/her clothes will become more dirty and ripped. Jeffrey Dahmer didn't have a black mask over his head so the police could see that guy is killing people. The way the game is to work is human interaction and puzzle solving...puzzle meaning situations not blocks and switches damnit

[Kowalski (DayZ) 19]

I disagree...

Their should be no visual cues showing murders...

Most people seem to believe that if you murder a few people your suddenly unable to maintain your appearance...

I've lost all sort of gear to KOS bandits...

SVD's, NVG's, M107, M4 CCO SD's, fuck you name it, I've lost it...

But guess what..?

I still ask first, and usually they will either shoot me or talk to me...

You want a trust system in this game...

Don't shoot people and and talk to them...

Start building trust the way your supposed to...

I've never murdered anyone. I've always tried to open a conversation. But it works so rarely I thought I'd give a suggestion of encouraging some more teamwork amongst the 'good guys'

I personally think managing the Friendly fire between survivors would work - certainly for me.

But everyone obviously has their own views about how the game should develop.

[ChrisLeonard 14]

Dont think this would work. I think the main fear factor of Dayz is the trust issues, so why get rid of it?

[LeOverlord 150]

The mechanics already in the making. Over time a player will grow out hair his/her clothes will become more dirty and ripped. Jeffrey Dahmer didn't have a black mask over his head so the police could see that guy is killing people. The way the game is to work is human interaction and puzzle solving...puzzle meaning situations not blocks and switches damnit

Really, another person who believes that killing people means you can't take care of yourself..?

If anything, the only reason for your avatar to look rugged is because you have survived for a certain amount of time...

[Kykle 1]

Really, another person who believes that killing people means you can't take care of yourself..?

If anything, the only reason for your avatar to look rugged is because you have survived for a certain amount of time...

Sorry I didn't explain enough. Here watch this Rocket talks about it a bit. Right around 6:10

As far a as "Bandit" goes I believe there should be no visual indication that a person is a "Bandit" Whatever Rocket decides is best after all it's his creation.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Kykle

[savini 587]

I *do* think a class system would accomplish what OP was getting at. That would be an interesting mechanic, if it could be implemented.

Say you choose "Pilot" and you run into a "Bandit" and you also happen to be near a function huey. The bandit would be less inclined to kill the pilot, as it would also kill his chance at quick travel. The pilot *could* kill the bandit for his gear and fly off, but he would no longer have an extra set of eyes, or a gunner. Don't get me wrong they could both kill eachother just as easy. Having a class sorta system might give incentive to cooperate more fully. I'm not talking +1 modifiers or any bullshit like that, but "pilots" fly, "mechanics" repair, "medics", and so on and so forth. All players would function as they normally would, with a specific set of skills that would hopefully help players work together for a common goal.

BAF added such functionality with "engineer" units, and medics have functioned this way for...ever, so it is feasible.

That's my opinion anyway.

Cheers

[chhopsky 25]

I have to say it - what are all you people who get shot on sight doing wrong? This doesn't happen to me very often at all. I'd say maybe 1 in 4 people are instantly hostile. Part of it IS a trust game - if you want to be part of the problem, kill everyone you meet and go 'oh well thats what everyone does'. Most people only do it because they're afraid to be shot. Perhaps approach people from out of FOV, or not with your weapon drawn, or etc?

People by and large are going to shoot you if they are afraid you will kill them. I'm really starting to suspect people are just plain doing it wrong and blaming 'the community'.

[chhopsky 25]

By the way, how many of you here were actually around for the Bandit skins? Remember we got rid of it because it wasn't working? For what it's worth, while that was still a thing, the only stranger who ever stuck their neck out for me when I was down on my luck/ammo/health was a bandit. The only person who deceived and killed me was a survivor.