New players don't want a negative experience of Dayz!

[G33z3r 13]

I wish you were right about this. But, at least for now, you might as well get used to the idea that this game is a deathmatch shooter with zombie survival elements. It's far less frustrating once you realize this.

^ this

[Lomi 1]

Started about a week ago. When I started I had no weapons, no morphine and no idea. I didn’t even really know what the controls were. Needless to say I lasted about 10 minutes. Tried again, made it to 20 minutes. Tried again got to around 30 minutes. In all this time I still hadn’t found a weapon.

By my 6^th-7^th attempt I found an axe, I ran around taking as many zombies with me as possible just to get my own back and then died.

By my 10^th attempt I was surviving ok. Heading towards towns and scavenging. I think it was about now I got killed by a player for the first time, I only had an axe at the time. By try 12 or 13 (I am nothing if not persistent) I had a rough grasp of the location of a few barns. I could get a weapon and survive zombies. I still die, most commonly by players now though. I still have yet to find any morphine (or even a hospital).

My main criticisms as a new player that i found frustrating.

1/ Too many locked buildings, you can have an entire village without a single building enterable (not sure if we are allowed to mention other games but in the forth coming planet wide zombie survival game “The Dead Linger” every building will be enterable, this is how it should be)

2/ Controls are sucky to say the least, seriously not even a proper jump button (unless I have missed it). I want to be able to vault a small fence, not have to stop my running and perform some little hop. I appreciate we are carrying a lot of gear, but come on! I was on a building once and there was a roof literally 20cm away and I had no way to get across, I could step across that!

3/ Broken legs at the slightest drop. Step slightly too far off a flight of steps and BAM! You are crawling for the next few hours unless you have magic morphine. This is too unforgiving.

4/ The graphics when hurt aren’t dramatic, just bloody annoying. I have been in pain many times and have never seen any less colour from this, let alone black and white! I don’t mind the shakes and a bit of blurring, but the rest is a little OTT.

5/ Zombies only spawning near buildings means that there is no tension anywhere else on the map. Given the most of the map is hills and forests this means that too much of the game is a walking simulator. I don’t want zombie hordes, but give me something to keep me on my toes.

I wouldn’t say I am now good at the game, far from it. In fact I still have only ever lasted over an hour 3 times. I did once almost kill someone, but they alt f4’d on me. I do like this game and hope that it continues to improve, but to be honest it is only tiding me over until something a little more immersive comes along (back to the Dead Linger) again

[hoorah (DayZ) 36]

I like not having a gun when I spawn. It's completely unrealistic to automatically get a weapon.

You're not from the South, are you? ;-)

There are more gun shows down here than, well, I can't think of a comparison. But there are a lot!

[hoorah (DayZ) 36]

1/ Too many locked buildings, you can have an entire village without a single building enterable (not sure if we are allowed to mention other games but in the forth coming planet wide zombie survival game “The Dead Linger” every building will be enterable, this is how it should be)

3/ Broken legs at the slightest drop. Step slightly too far off a flight of steps and BAM! You are crawling for the next few hours unless you have magic morphine. This is too unforgiving.

5/ Zombies only spawning near buildings means that there is no tension anywhere else on the map. Given the most of the map is hills and forests this means that too much of the game is a walking simulator. I don’t want zombie hordes, but give me something to keep me on my toes.

1 - There are only a few actual buildings you can enter. One is the symmetric barn. Another is the small residential unit with the dark wooden frame and the small door thats recessed under an entryway. These are just two examples, but they are repeated identically throughout the map. As you play more, you'll start to recognize the enterable buildings and be able to separate them from the ones that are just scenery.

3 - If I break a leg, I don't have morphine, and I'm not in a town with at least a supermarket - forget it. Respawn. Maybe I have too little patience for this game, but I'm not crawling for hours in some test of 'how long can I hold the w key'

5 - Not sure anything can be done about this. AFAIK, number of zombies is a technical limitation in the game, the engine can't handle more than 800-1000 zombies. If that were split up all over the map, the towns would have like 5 zombies in them.

[Lomi 1]

1 - There are only a few actual buildings you can enter. One is the symmetric barn. Another is the small residential unit with the dark wooden frame and the small door thats recessed under an entryway. These are just two examples, but they are repeated identically throughout the map. As you play more, you'll start to recognize the enterable buildings and be able to separate them from the ones that are just scenery.

3 - If I break a leg, I don't have morphine, and I'm not in a town with at least a supermarket - forget it. Respawn. Maybe I have too little patience for this game, but I'm not crawling for hours in some test of 'how long can I hold the w key'

5 - Not sure anything can be done about this. AFAIK, number of zombies is a technical limitation in the game, the engine can't handle more than 800-1000 zombies. If that were split up all over the map, the towns would have like 5 zombies in them.

Thanks for the reply. I think the frustrations I have are mainly due to the engine. not to harp on about the Dead Linger, but it is having to build an engine up from scratch so it can do the things people want. Dayz will always be limited. For example, loot will always have to respawn due to the map being of a limited size (it is big, but not really big enough). Controls are tied to the engine too. And being a war sim in the background means that the game does have to track every zombie meaning there will always be that limit.

As I said I do enjoy the game, but the limitations frustrate me. It is not whether or not I start with a weapon, or whether or not I know the location of everything. It is the fact that there are basic things that I want to be able to do that i can't. For example punch zombies, jump over roof tops, climb walls, emote to other players (wave, cheer etc.). These are the things that frustrate me and luckily enough I assume some of them will be resolved over time.

[hoorah (DayZ) 36]

Thanks for the reply. I think the frustrations I have are mainly due to the engine. not to harp on about the Dead Linger, but it is having to build an engine up from scratch so it can do the things people want. Dayz will always be limited. For example, loot will always have to respawn due to the map being of a limited size (it is big, but not really big enough). Controls are tied to the engine too. And being a war sim in the background means that the game does have to track every zombie meaning there will always be that limit.

As I said I do enjoy the game, but the limitations frustrate me. It is not whether or not I start with a weapon, or whether or not I know the location of everything. It is the fact that there are basic things that I want to be able to do that i can't. For example punch zombies, jump over roof tops, climb walls, emote to other players (wave, cheer etc.). These are the things that frustrate me and luckily enough I assume some of them will be resolved over time.

Honestly, once you get comfortable finding a middle of the road primary weapon like the 1866, an enfield, or even a double-barrel, and then find out the buildings that are enterable, zombies become a simplistic exercise in outsmarting the AI.

With no weapon, a trail of 4+ zombies chasing you makes you need to lose them by running in an out of buildings hoping they can't track you, or trying your luck at hitting them with a hatchet and not losing too much blood.

With a gun? Find a building and let them all funnel in slowly, easily picking them off in the head, then go on about your merry way. Not much of a challenge to it (unless you count having a zombie surprise you by clipping through a wall a challenge).

[wordplayuk@gmail.com 101]

Remember too, that when we started you couldn't lose zombies like you can now, there were far less guides and let's plays online and in other ways it was harder. It does have a steep learning curve, but once your over it the game is better for it.

[SnakeEyes (DayZ) 4]

You're not from the South, are you? ;-)

There are more gun shows down here than, well, I can't think of a comparison. But there are a lot!

as i read this i look across the room at my gun safe which has a Bushmaster XM15, Romanian WASR 10 (AK47 clone), Romanian ROMAK 3 (SVD clone), Baikal over/under 16 gauge, and a Beretta 96 Brigadier.

some of us will have guns when DayZ comes... lol

[hoorah (DayZ) 36]

as i read this i look across the room at my gun safe which has a Bushmaster XM15, Romanian WASR 10 (AK47 clone), Romanian ROMAK 3 (SVD clone), Baikal over/under 16 gauge, and a Beretta 96 Brigadier.

some of us will have guns when DayZ comes... lol

Wow, I can't remember the last time I saw a 16 gauge. Do you have trouble finding ammo for it?

All of mine are run-o-the-mill stuff. Few 9mms, 380s, and 223s from springfield and ruger. Some sort of 12 gauge is next on my list.

[SnakeEyes (DayZ) 4]

Wow, I can't remember the last time I saw a 16 gauge. Do you have trouble finding ammo for it?

All of mine are run-o-the-mill stuff. Few 9mms, 380s, and 223s from springfield and ruger. Some sort of 12 gauge is next on my list.

several years ago when the ammo started getting harder to find i bought every box that my local sporting goods store had. i've used a couple boxes shooting skeet since but still have around 20 boxes.

[NovaDose 128]

I agree with most people in this thread. This game isn't about "easy", it's about the contrary. You don't get a pop up every few seconds giving you a tip on how to play, there are not "Continue?" screens, no coin collecting to buy better gear, you won't find an official guide book, no one is going to hold your hand and help you cross the street here, everything and nearly everyone wants you dead and if you can't deal with that then gtfo imho. It's as simple as that.

To dumb this game down or make it casual-gamer ready would be an abortion rape (or rapeortion) of something pure and good and full of win and justice. I'm tired of games that pander to the weak, slow, or stupid. Back in the day (and I'm sure some of you can relate to this) games where much more, uhm, "unforgiving" I guess is the best word.

For instance in a lot of games you had a limited number of lives. Once those were gone, you started over from the very beginning. You didn't respawn at your last check point with everything you had before. You either got better at the game or you gave the fuck up and accepted that you sucked at it. This day in age you get a trophy for TRYING. That's bull shit. If and when my kid gets one of those shit participation awards I make sure to tell her that she got it for nothing. You know what, she understands that too; and she gets BETTER at what ever is was she fucked up at. I'm raising a winner, not someone whose happy with half ass and expects everything to fall in her lap.

Make it hard on the best of your player base to keep them around; in turn you make your weakest few stronger. It's mutually beneficial this way. If people say "it's too hard!" or "I can't have fun because I keep dying" then they should probably take up angry birds. It will be far more fulfilling to them. They aren't cut from the same cloth as us. If they can't adapt & survive & thrive in Chernarus then we don't want em here anyway.

I swear the first time I see "ACHIEVEMENT GET!!! STAY ALIVE FIVE MINUTES!!! HERE'S YOUR REWARD!!!" I will fucking rage quit.

tl;dr If the game is too hard you are just too weak. If you want a participation award, take up playing pee-wee football.

[SnakeEyes (DayZ) 4]

I swear the first time I see "ACHIEVEMENT GET!!! STAY ALIVE FIVE MINUTES!!! HERE'S YOUR REWARD!!!" I will fucking rage quit.

BRAVO BRAVO!!

[hoorah (DayZ) 36]

tl;dr If the game is too hard you are just too weak. If you want a participation award, take up playing pee-wee football.

Its just a video game. There is no 'weak' or 'strong' about it.

[Sula 1205]

Well, you get my beans. Just because other people didn't get a gun or any help doesn't mean that is how it should be. We should be looking to encourage new players, as should Day Z developers.

I found the website less than helpful. BUT I'm NOT saying give people everything but a web page that says, "Hey, be warned! This is not like other games. You don't get any weapons. You just have to survive and like in a real zombie holocaust, most of you will die... and die again...." Maybe a link to some realistic footage. Not the great movie style stuff that sounds so great.

Just a warning for potential players and then reall quotes from real players on why it's worth the hard work.

And what would be nice is to see experienced players (of 3 or 4 months or more) setting aside time to offer help regularly to newbies. An hour a month isn't so much, is it? Do they even come in here?

Edited July 27, 2012 by Sula

[Lomi 1]

Its just a video game. There is no 'weak' or 'strong' about it.

Totally agree. People somehow think that hard=good. Honestly it has no relevance. If the game forced you to complete some sort of algorithmic equation before you were allowed to pick up anything it would be harder, it wouldn't be better though.

And as I said my main frustrations aren't at the level of difficulty, but more at the limitations of the engine. Not being able to jump makes the game harder, but it certainly doesn't make it better. Having to pick an axe up, remove the axe from your toolbelt, equip it as a main weapon, 'reload' it just so that you can hit a zombie that chased you into the building is a lot 'harder' than it needs to be, and it makes the game a lot worse than just picking up the axe and swinging it.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Lomi

[Sula 1205]

Good point, Lomi. The faffing about trying to work out why your axe just clicks instead of hitting a zombie's head, is annoying and doesn't add to anything. Not jumping is a frustration though I wouldn't want to jump much with a heavy rucksack to be fair.

I still have no idea how to fire a weapon. Not that I mind. I don't really need a weapon most of the time. :)

[NovaDose 128]

Its just a video game. There is no 'weak' or 'strong' about it.

I disagree. You have strong players, and you have weak players. Garry Kasparov would make you look like a three year old on a chess board because he is a strong player and good at the game he plays. In any form of competition you have weak players and strong players. From playing a game of tic tac toe to playing Day z.

[Demon20 46]

So, after a week of me coming into the house espousing the virtues of DayZ to my unemployed room mate, who sits around playing video games all day...he asked if he can get me killed at DayZ yesterday. I say "sure", since I had just died the night before to something or such...broken leg, bleeding out...crashing a tractor into a tree and getting blown up, hunted down like a dog in the woods by a player...something cool and interesting none-the-less.

So, I give him the keys, a quick primer...like this is how you move, here's the DayzDB map, watch the lower right corner for where you are, tell him it's in Alpha and it's rough, "you can read a map right?...later" and I head off to work.

I come in at lunch, chineese in hand (that reminds me...I am hungry and want more chineese) and I sit down at my computer, head over to US 161, and I am being asked if I am male or female. I pop my head into his room, "hey man...how'd you get smoked". "Some guy killed me...I think it was with an MP5 or something small". "Cool" I say. "Yeah", he says, "I had looted around awhile, got some mags for things, got an Enfield, some cokes, a can of pasta or something, a compass and was heading over towards the church in Cherno and got killed". I laughed. "Cool man, gonna eat my chineese and play".

So, I do just that, rock my General Tso's and click "male". An hour later, after slipping through Electro and getting a pretty good start, not a hit form any of the infected, no snipers out today, good gear...I head out. I tell him "Hey man, got some decent stuff, Alice Pack (Medium), M1014, AK-74u, compass, some cans of food, toolbox, you should be set for a little bit. I'd head north if I were you, get out of city. So if you wanna make a go...". "No, I want be making a go" he says, cutting me off. "Oh" I reply. "Why not?" "I don't know man, the inventory system is just wacked out. I should be able to carry more, crossbow bolts shouldn't take up the same space as a can of beans..." blah, blah, blah, blah. "You do remember I told you that it was in alpha right? And not really even a true 'alpha', like with a scope of work, project notes, milestones, phase lines, etc, etc?" "Yeah, but..."

"It's cool man, later..." And I roll back to work.

See, the moral of the story, some people just don't have what it takes. And that's cool. I don't sweat it. I play music on the side. Get paid, people don't always like the music I play. I don't play Sublime. Hate them. But my musician friends do...go see them. Don't like the Glock17...there's a thousand other choices. Don't like DayZ? That's cool. Don't play it, play something else.

Are there things that could be done right now to make it better? Sure. But that's not what's happening. It's an experiment. It's a mod. It's not even in a stage of actual project development. So...lighten up. Hell...it's not even right to call this a game. It's just a place with stuff you need to keep your character alive, in places where some zombie like critters live and other players go to. Game? Nah...will be...but not now.

My friend? He'll never play DayZ. Why? Other players can kill you. You can do EVERYTHING right and still die. He doesn't like games, or anything in the real world for that matter where you don't have exact control and can't control your success or failure. And he doesn't like content that is not available to him for any reason. Games that allow or do that on purpose bug him. That's cool.

I know this...I don't care if he plays or not. Yeah...it would have been cool...I play alone 99.9% of the time, so a buddy in the other room would be cool...but I don't sweat it. I like DayZ. Yeah, it's rough. Has a steep learning curve. Changes just when you think you got it. But so fucking what...it's that difference that makes it rock. Hard. Challenging. Doesn't make much sense at times...But I don't care.

So...my advice to you if you are new and can't get past the bugs, the senseless violence, the bad inventory system, not being able to "jump", infected coming through walls, go play CoD or BF3, or as another poster put...fucking Angry Birds. That's cool. This is my song, my music...and there are hundreds of thousands of cats that dig it just as much as I do...go fucking listen to some one else's song if you don't like ours. That's cool too.

Out.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Demon20

[hoorah (DayZ) 36]

I disagree. You have strong players, and you have weak players. Garry Kasparov would make you look like a three year old on a chess board because he is a strong player and good at the game he plays. In any form of competition you have weak players and strong players. From playing a game of tic tac toe to playing Day z.

At the end of the day, its still just moving around pieces of ivory, x's and o's, or keystrokes on a computer. Yes, there is significant strategy involved, however, 'strong' or 'weak' are not words I would use to describe any of them. They're just games.

[Lomi 1]

So...the moral of the story? If you are new and can't get past the bugs, the senseless violence, the bad inventory system, not being able to "jump", infected coming through walls, go play CoD or BF3, or as another poster put...fucking Angry Birds. That's cool. This is my song, my music...and there are hundreds of thousands of cats that dig it just as much as I do...go fucking listen to some one else's song if you don't like ours. That's cool too.

Out.

See it was all good until the passing paragraph. I have never played CoD, BF3 or in fact fucking Angry Birds. In fact most of my time is spent playing indie games. The community here can be very elitist. One mention of something that isn't quite right and the answer is that you should go play CoD.

This topic is about trying to get new players such as myself a better experience. Whilst we still have to deal with such unhelpful people as this community has it will always be tough. Why would most new players put up with the bad inventory system, bad controls and bugs that an alpha has if the community behind it won't actually make it worthwhile? If the moment we ask for help we are told to go and play a different game then soon there won't be any new players.

Myself I am looking beyond the flaws in the game and finding the fun game beneath, but most won't while the game is populated by idiots.

[Karlash 3]

See it was all good until the passing paragraph. I have never played CoD, BF3 or in fact fucking Angry Birds. In fact most of my time is spent playing indie games. The community here can be very elitist. One mention of something that isn't quite right and the answer is that you should go play CoD.

This topic is about trying to get new players such as myself a better experience. Whilst we still have to deal with such unhelpful people as this community has it will always be tough. Why would most new players put up with the bad inventory system, bad controls and bugs that an alpha has if the community behind it won't actually make it worthwhile? If the moment we ask for help we are told to go and play a different game then soon there won't be any new players.

Myself I am looking beyond the flaws in the game and finding the fun game beneath, but most won't while the game is populated by idiots.

I agree with you, if anything all these player who sit in the big sitting waiting your ppl to come in and try resupply, so they can shoot them armed or un-arm should go play CoD or such games.

I myself am only 3 days into this and Im loving it, I survived 4 bandit attacks today with out killing anyone and then died due to starvation because I got as far from the town as I could ran out of ammo while killing Zed for the odd can of food that didnt appear. I dont really mind the bandit to be honest, everyone need some sort of place in the world, and they chose to be dickeads :) ( not all bandits are bad, I actually got mugged the other day, that was pretty sweet lol) but I strongly disagree with those bandits that snipe in the big cities where noobs spawn, they to scare or lazy to go up north where the real bounties are.

Im not against killing I almost killed a guy today, but I saw that there where 3 bandits coming down the hill and I didnt want to give myself away. I will kill for food lol,but anyways I love this game, i dont care about the bugs, crap inventory and the silly bastards that kill un-armed or hatchet/crossbow players... Just wish I had someone to play with :)

[Zoop 343]

See it was all good until the passing paragraph. I have never played CoD, BF3 or in fact fucking Angry Birds. In fact most of my time is spent playing indie games. The community here can be very elitist. One mention of something that isn't quite right and the answer is that you should go play CoD.

This topic is about trying to get new players such as myself a better experience. Whilst we still have to deal with such unhelpful people as this community has it will always be tough. Why would most new players put up with the bad inventory system, bad controls and bugs that an alpha has if the community behind it won't actually make it worthwhile? If the moment we ask for help we are told to go and play a different game then soon there won't be any new players.

Myself I am looking beyond the flaws in the game and finding the fun game beneath, but most won't while the game is populated by idiots.

What I'm hearing is that you feel the community should be responsible for showing new players where the fun in the game is. No. You're responsible for your own fun.

[NovaDose 128]

At the end of the day, its still just moving around pieces of ivory, x's and o's, or keystrokes on a computer. Yes, there is significant strategy involved, however, 'strong' or 'weak' are not words I would use to describe any of them. They're just games.

Ok Webster, you tell me what words you would use to define the difference between someone who is good at a game and someone who is not? You are arguing semantics. A rose by any other name my friend...

Good player, bad player. Strong player, weak player. Noob, vet. What ever words you use to define the margin of skill and strategy between someone who is good at doing something vs. someone who is not it is the same exact principle. You have people who excel at doing something, and people who do not. If you want to use different verbiage to define the difference then be my guest.

What I'm trying to get at here is that you CAN be good at a game even though it is just a game. Whether it's ivory pieces on a board, pressing buttons on a key board, or throwing a ball in the major leagues; you have people who are good at it, and people who are not. No matter what words you use to describe the difference it is a definable and easily discerned difference in capability. Saying that, because it's just a game, you don't have people who are markedly more advanced than others is foolish. You can be good (strong) at doing anything from playing a game to doing math; or you can be weak and just plain bad at it.

You are deviating off topic and I am coming with you!

Back to topic: My argument stands. If you make this game easily accessible to casual gamers and teeny boppers then you will make it far too easy for the elite few and the moderates. I don't want an easy game. I had to fight tooth and nail for my shit like everyone else but none the less I still have it. Hell, there are some out there who think the game is too easy! I say the new people need to either get better (stronger, more skilled, have a better strategy, what ever) at this game instead of QQ'ing and hoping Rocket will dial back the difficulty.

EDIT: I would also like to add that if you would currently be consider "not good" at this game; with time you can be "good" at this game. When I started, I died maybe 10 times the first day. As stated before, I rarely ever die now, least not by doing something I have learned not to do. Best advice I can give: don't trust others unless they earn it. I am not a bandit. When I see someone and know they are going to see me, I start shouting "FRIENDLY"; if they swing their gun around they are going to die. If they say "Friendly" back, then I keep my eyes on them. If they don't see me, then I avoid them. You will never be able to stop people from shooting each other; it's there for a reason. My current character is about 20 hours old I think and I play in the same world you do. Good luck.

Edited July 27, 2012 by NovaDose

[Huntra 35]

I am an entirely solo player and only been playing a few days and if I'd started with all that the game would be far too easy. Starting with no weapons is a great way to make you learn the game. It's not a perfect game by any means, the most annoying thing for me is the oddness of loot spawns distribution, some places that seem like they should have some decent loot just suck. Other places are gold mines and not even hard to get to. I'm left finding it quite hard to believe that a town like Bor doesn't have have any Drinks in the whole damn place. Then shocked to find a barn in a field that has 5 canned drinks lying around in it.

[ArmorPlated 0]

Just got DayZ about... oh, four days ago? a week maybe? I started off without a clue. Do you know how far I got? I snagged a Lee Enfield, a Revolver, a few clips for each, knife, hatchet, watch, three cans of food and a bunch of pepsi. I died to sniper fire in Cherno with actual weaponry and supplies. on my first life. After I died, I jumped servers and tried again (people don't come back from the dead, right? err- forget I said that.) I spawned to find, lo and behold, there's a warehouse on the coast here. looted it and eventually wound up discovering that hatchets are weapons too. (saw someone running around with an axe I recognized.)

I learned how to play the hard way, and I felt like the world was a cold, hard place. (I used some tutorial videos to figure out the backpack/inventory after my fifth death though, shame on me.) don't need anyone to baby me and spoon feed this game to me. It's supposed to be hard, it's supposed to be scary. If you want to start off holding a gun, go play an FPS, ignore this simulator.

My only regret is I didn't start with some kind of randomized loot so bandits won't be wasting bullets on my sorry ass as I run into Elektro. something, anything, more than just a flashlight, bandaid and painkillers.

Edited July 27, 2012 by ArmorPlated