Surrender Animation/Function

[mxphilipp@gmx.de 1]

Hey guys!

I recently had a couple of run-ins with various people my group and I met in the wilderness while on the move and in which the survivor/s we met didn't know we spotted them until we already surrounded them and set up superior firepower.

That one time for example was when we had seen a single survivor looting a barn in the middle of nowhere and proceeded to set up a perimeter around the barn while he was still inside.

Seeing as we are not the bunch of people who shoot everyone on sight, we wanted to give him the chance to surrender and hand over his weapons/ammo, while giving him the chance to keep the rest of his supplies.

Instead he just disconnected as soon as we started talking over VON and got away.

This is not cool, as not being an asshole and shooting people on sight is rewarded with them just disconnecting and us not gaining anything at all, even though we went through the trouble to make it possible for him to surrender.

Now what I am asking for is a simple "Surrender" function, which would enable a player to drop all his weapons + ammo he is carrying and put his hands over his head (I know there is an animation for that already that you can even bind a key to, but you can not walk with your hands above your head, which would be required here).

This would make surrendering easy and enable the players to keep their food, medical supplies etc. while only handing over their weapons.

Maybe some players would even be so kind to leave the surrendered person a sidearm with a couple of rounds to not be completely defenseless...

Also, I am asking for people not being able to disconnect when within 100 or 200 meters of another player, as this would prevent the constant "disconnect upon danger" methods people seem to start using more and more often. I am guilty of it by myself after using it when I got attacked by a sniper in Chernogorsk and when fleeing from a giant zombiehorde while another player started shooting me, but I really dislike seeing that kind of stuff.

So as I said, I'd suggest an inability to save your character when within 100 or 200 meters of another player, with instant resetting of your character when pressing ALT + F4 and the implementation of a "Surrender" function.

What do you guys think? Good idea? I think it would add a lot to the game.

[TheRiddick 0]

There are keys already that activate poses, this could be used perhaps. But again if I come across you guys trying to rob me I will likely disconnect also. Or just shoot you all dead :)

[plsgo 1]

The alt f4 save abuse is being worked on at the moment I believe.

I really like your idea about a surrender animation though, it would fit into this game very well.

[gobbo (DayZ) 6]

I am asking for people not being able to disconnect when within 100 or 200 meters of another player

Impossible.

a) The game provides no means to keep players from disconnecting, only from connecting and

b) even if we found some means to do that, they could still quit the process, so we'd have to strip the windows user of their rights to do so, which is simply not possible out of the game.

[plsgo 1]

I am asking for people not being able to disconnect when within 100 or 200 meters of another player

Impossible.

a) The game provides no means to keep players from disconnecting' date=' only from connecting and

b) even if we found some means to do that, they could still quit the process, so we'd have to strip the windows user of their rights to do so, which is simply not possible out of the game.

[/quote']

Alternatively you could make it so the user doesn't disconnect immediately on closing the game? Or maybe an actor that acts as their character replaces them and stays for 30 seconds or so after logout or timeout?

[tpenn 9]

I am asking for people not being able to disconnect when within 100 or 200 meters of another player

Impossible.

a) The game provides no means to keep players from disconnecting' date=' only from connecting and

b) even if we found some means to do that, they could still quit the process, so we'd have to strip the windows user of their rights to do so, which is simply not possible out of the game.

[/quote']

I'm pretty sure he meant keeping the player's entity active on the server, and not necessarily preventing the actual player from quitting. Now that PVP and griefing are a part of the game I'm noticing a lot of resemblance to the game EVE Online, and my prediction is a lot of it will play out the same, so maybe the devs should look into how they deal with things like "logoffsky" and aggro/pirate system in that game. I could see the player entity remaining for 20-30 seconds after log off to encourage logging out in a safe spot.

That being said I have zero sympathy for PVP/griefers' goals until the whole PVP system is seriously taken a look. The game is barely out of alpha and already PVPers and griefers have entire servers degenerating into brainless deathmatches, which is fine if this were PR or counterstrike, etc. but why bother having a separate mod, if it's just going to turn into yet another dm mission?

[blackbeard06 16]

Pvp plays an important part in Day Z. I personally never want to see it leave. Zombie games / films are all forgetting the more important part of the apocalypse. Trust & Bandits. I love the direction the Dev teams are going with the humanity system

[mxphilipp@gmx.de 1]

Impossible.

a) The game provides no means to keep players from disconnecting' date=' only from connecting and

b) even if we found some means to do that, they could still quit the process, so we'd have to strip the windows user of their rights to do so, which is simply not possible out of the game.

[/quote']

Hmm, I see, I thought that this might be not possible as I described it.

I think, however, that the other people suggested a great idea to circumvent this by doing the "spawn puppet" thing instead of the player after he disconnects that still registers what happens to it and treats is as a player in the database.

So if someone logs out he will be encouraged to move somewhere safe, as everything that happend to his "puppet" after he logs out actually happens to his character upon next login.

Anyway, check this thread for reference: http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=71

Also, what's the dev's stance on a "Surrender" function?

I'd even be pleased if only that would be implemented so that RP is encouraged.

[grounddog 12]

I really think there should atleast be a surrender function. There is an animation for it. I see no problem implenting it into the gameplay.

That we put our hands behind our head, like in RP servers.

[Redrick (DayZ) 72]

Impossible.

a) The game provides no means to keep players from disconnecting' date=' only from connecting and

b) even if we found some means to do that, they could still quit the process, so we'd have to strip the windows user of their rights to do so, which is simply not possible out of the game.

[/quote']

Hmm, I see, I thought that this might be not possible as I described it.

I think, however, that the other people suggested a great idea to circumvent this by doing the "spawn puppet" thing instead of the player after he disconnects that still registers what happens to it and treats is as a player in the database.

So if someone logs out he will be encouraged to move somewhere safe, as everything that happend to his "puppet" after he logs out actually happens to his character upon next login.

Anyway, check this thread for reference: http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=71

Also, what's the dev's stance on a "Surrender" function?

I'd even be pleased if only that would be implemented so that RP is encouraged.

I like the puppet idea, just have it sit there for 60 seconds or so after you log out. That way, it cant be said the person trying to kill/steal from wasn't given his shot.

[goatsenator 11]

60 seconds? That's quite a long time. I'd be okay with 10 or 15, but I'd prefer none at all. I know some people like my friend really want to play this game but have commitments in their personal lives like children and jobs, and this game requires a lot of time. Should he be punished if he has to go feed his baby? He's mostly stayed away for now since the time commitment just doesn't mesh with his responsibilities, and I'm sure there are others out there in the same predicament.

I don't think this needs to be added for general players; you simply make the decision to approach and be friendly, shoot on sight, or avoid other survivors altogether. I have never been held up in game like you describe because it's too risky. I don't know how you survive more than an hour trying to hold people up like that.

[Redrick (DayZ) 72]

Then how do you stop these people that just keep outright d/c'ing the second they spot trouble?

[mxphilipp@gmx.de 1]

I don't think this needs to be added for general players; you simply make the decision to approach and be friendly' date=' shoot on sight, or avoid other survivors altogether. I have never been held up in game like you describe because it's too risky. I don't know how you survive more than an hour trying to hold people up like that.

[/quote']

First of all, my record was 5 hours something so far and holding people up like that works surprisingly well.

If you spot someone and they didn't notice your presence, it's fairly easy to surround them and set up an ambush without their knowing.

Of course you don't do hold-ups on your own, when I am alone, I usually avoid people.

But I do think that there should be a chance to actually be "evil" or to "survive" without having to kill other players and without being punished for choosing to let someone live.

If I see someone with a gun that uses the same ammo my gun uses, of course I try to get ammo for it the lazy way - by robbing people.

But that does not mean that I have to kill him, right? Just taking from him what I need and then sending him on his way works perfectly fine.

It's better for the victim not to get killed, as his stats are not rerolled and he does not lose ALL of his gear and it's better for me, as I don't lose morality because I killed an innocent.

Seriously, consider the situation when YOU are travelling alone.

Would you prefer to be shot by a sniper with a single shot and without ever knowing what happened (we are capable of that) or would you prefer to get away with minor gear-loss, but your stats and your life intact?

I would choose the latter.

[oktyabr 53]

I would choose pretend to surrender and then take at least one of you with me. I've taken two or three and walked away before. How do you determine what is "enough"? I was once in an attempted mugging (it didn't work out quite like they planned) where they said all they wanted was my food and water...

What?!?!? I'm already dead then! Take my guns and ammo???? Same thing! Who's going to *invest the time* to head back into Cherno or wherever trying to find new provisions without even a pistol? Would I prefer you just shoot me? No. I'd prefer you give me the chance to kill YOU. If I die fighting for what's mine, that's fine. I'd just find a way to die and respawn if you took everything anyway so all taking a chance at dying in combat is doing is speeding up my respawn, if I loose.

Role playing and all is fine, if that's what floats your boat, but I have time invested in this game every time I play. You aren't just robbing me of my food, water, and maybe the only way I have to defend myself, you are robbing me of all the time it will take to *try* and find all that stuff all over again. That's just silly. Shoot me, let me respawn (please post in global that you just killed me so I know who I'm hunting now), or don't be surprised if I fight you to the death. A surrender option? LOL

And on disco within range? H-E-L-L no! I usually disconnect *with* my group. You want us to spend a bunch of time trying to get that perfect 200m apart before we do it?!? What about trying to leave cause my wife or kid needs me, or I get an important phone call, and I'm in the middle of downtown Cherno?

I admire any suggestions that might improve the game, and who knows, maybe others like these suggestions, but I can just think of way too many reasons not to myself.

The best option you could hope for would be a non-lethal attack that just knocks someone unconscious for 60 seconds or so. Rob them, kill them, that's up to you. Maybe a stealthy strike to the back of the head with your rifle stock.

[bodycount 83]

What about only logging out at your tent? Otherwise it gives you like a 60 second countdown until you get logged off.

With server swapping (which is something that I have never encountered in a game before) it gives you the option of swapping servers, maneuvering behind your enemies and then reconnecting.

Some type of logoff delay function would go a long ways to prevent this in the future at some point if indeed it is even possible to implement at all.

The PvP seems to play a far larger part than fighting zombies for the time being and as such probably needs much more priority.

[oktyabr 53]

LOL!

Let's be realistic here. Sure, in a perfect world a player could instantly disconnect, pop up on a different server, move 100m behind his attackers, pop back on to the original server and get the drop on them. Hmmm... that wouldn't be that bad actually.

But back to the topic! That kind of performance is never going to happen, even on the best of days. 60 seconds to switch servers twice is probably even unrealistic. Hell, today it might take you HOURS just to get on the first server! :D The way it used to be was fine... you could see the save count down timer and when it hit zero you were good to save. I liked that. IF you tried to switch to another and back again you would have to watch that count down timer roll over twice, plus exiting and rejoining, downloading player data, etc. If you build enough delay (or just let it happen naturally. LOL) no PVPers are going to be hanging out there waiting for you to come back anyway. And if they are? They are the stupid ones. Teach them a lesson.

[mxphilipp@gmx.de 1]

You obviously weren't killed by anyone who used those tactics before, otherwise you would know what I'm talking about. I have made this experience 3 times already, always losing top-notch gear. And I am not going to argue about the usefulness of a surrender function with you, especially if you behave that arrogant and imply that EVERYONE is thinking what you think.

If you would please take a look at the poll on top of this thread, you'd realise that people actually want that stuff.

And I did already say that the not-letting-people-disconnect thing was a bad idea, if you had read the thread and seen what a dev posted about it and what I replied you would probably know, guess that's just too much reading for you...

But just coming in here, ranting, because you imply that everyone should be of the same opinion that you are is really not going to help.

Now if we could actually get some feedback on this by the devs, if it would be able to implement etc., that would be really great!

[oktyabr 53]

Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh.

Here is my suggestion:

IF you disconnect from the server, view changes to third person bird's eye view so you can see a fair distance around your character. A count down timer appears and runs down what, maybe 15-30 seconds, before you actually disconnect taking your stats and gear with you. A delay like this would help derail the "leave to escape" exploit. IF you are fired upon or any other player comes within looting range within that time frame you instantly get the option to jump back into your body for a chance to defend yourself. If no one attacks you or tries to loot you then waiting to disconnect is the only course of action. This would prevent people from using the overhead view as an exploit, disconnecting and then rejoining before the timer runs out. A similar delay upon joining a server (if it's not already inherent in trying to join in the first place) would likewise discourage disconnect/reconnect used as an exploit.

I know it's difficult to force a player to wait to disconnect but perhaps a "hard" disconnect, as we have now, would NOT save the player state to the db server. Want to keep your stuff? Select the optional disconnect method detailed above.

BUT, only if something like THIS idea is used as well.

[oktyabr 53]

They would have to reprogram the save state feature' date=' all you would have to do to counteract that is the hard d/c as you said and it seems to save state every 60s so it wouldn't matter.

[/quote']

It's still an alpha buddy! They are reprogramming lots of things! ;)

As it stands now, I think, when you hard d/c your state is automatically uploaded to the database. As I said there is no way to dodge that bullet but this very thread at least in part concerns the "exploit" of people hard d/c'ing and then rejoining later, either to escape death or to get the drop on someone. I think the only way around that is to either automate your character, leaving him on the server for a short while, as this thread would suggest, (to be looted and/or killed), OR offer a more attractive option.

The solution I have proposed is optional. There is no way to stop a hard d/c. The option would present the player with a choice, hard d/c and loose everything (preventing the exploit as described) or use the optional d/c which saves your stuff, leaves you in game for less than a minute and still gives you a chance to defend yourself if you are being looted or shot at. It's all about more choices :)

Used in conjunction with my temporary spawn as a zombie idea I think it would work to curb the exploits, reduce the attractiveness of road side robbery and psychos with sniper rifles, and maybe even offer an alternative to the current skin/humanity thing that is being greeted with mixed opinions.

No?

[mxphilipp@gmx.de 1]

Hmm, I guess a 20 to 30 seconds disconnect timer would be fair.

As described, you would have to wait a set ammount of time until you can leave the game for good and your character disappears when you hit the "Disconnect" button. You would also have to stay in the same place, so no hitting "Disconnect", running away and disconnecting halfway through the escape.

And the ALT+F4 problem should really be adressed by rolling back the character to zero.

The current system, with a save upon hard disconnect is still too easy to exploit, with people hitting ALT+F4 as soon as a shot is fired.

All I want is something that FORCES people to fight back or to surrender when they are interfering with other players.

And please don't tell me a 30 second timer is too long, it really is not.

When someone calls you and you need to get away from the game quickly, I doubt that during the 30 seconds of time that you leave your character alone anything significant would happen, unless you are in a firefight or somewhere populated, which is your own fault, really.

[Eigthmark 0]

Pvp plays an important part in Day Z. I personally never want to see it leave. Zombie games / films are all forgetting the more important part of the apocalypse. Trust & Bandits. I love the direction the Dev teams are going with the humanity system

i agree completely, leave the PvP aspect alone, a few tweaks wouldn't hurt but the game isn't complete yet so i don't know why people are bitching at things which are getting reviewed anyway

gj@devs, seems to be going well

[mxphilipp@gmx.de 1]

No one ever asked to remove PvP or alter the way people can kill each other.

There should just be some ways of forcing people to actually face consequences of what they are doing.