Just to make things clear - weapons nerf is not a DayZ patch.

[Max Planck 7174]

IMO to simulate being hurt in Dayz,they could add in the massive weapon sway when your blood goes below a certain level.That is some annoying shit right there so I do not know if people would be happy with that.LOL

Fuck people, seriously.

I want fear, I want the game to literally make me hungry and cold, I want my socks to get all muddy and my hair to get full of burrs while I'm playing the game at my desk.

Up the damage and lower the ammo drops, that would make me happy.

[blather 0]

I don't care if it's 9mm or .45 ACP. You can't instantly neutralize anyone with a body shot unless you hit their central nervous system or you convince them to be neutralized.

In real life, if you take a pistol round to the stomach it's not going to kill you immediately, regardless of the caliber. However you're probably going to stop doing whatever the hell you were trying to do because of the pain and fear.

In this game, you're shooting at zombies. Zombies don't give any fucks about pain. Zombies just want to eat you alive.

Realistically, you should HAVE to shoot for the head to kill a zombie… if zombies were real that is.

Since we are talking about IRL, the M1911 was first requested by the U.S. Military in the Phiilipine-American war:

"American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War using the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, in .38 Long Colt, found it to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain"

http://en.wikipedia....ki/M1911_pistol

Also:

"A manstopper is a generic term used to describe any combination of firearm and ammunition that can reliably incapacitate, or "stop", a human target immediately. For example, the .45 ACP pistol round and the .357 Magnum revolver round both have firm reputations as "manstoppers"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power

The gun was designed to stop a drugged Philipino before he could run up to you and stick a giant knife in your chest so I think IRL, it was fine as it was before they nerfed it.

Edited July 27, 2012 by blather

[atlantis_risen 14]

Those are some nice numbers, you clearly put some effort into it.

That said, if someone shoots you in the chest with a rifle you will need to lie down for a bit. I think the damage should reflect this.

I was going to post this almost word for word, but you beat me to it. :)

[Falcrist 119]

Since we are talking about IRL, the M1911 was first requested by the U.S. Military in the Phiilipine-American war:

"American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War using the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, in .38 Long Colt, found it to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain"

http://en.wikipedia....ki/M1911_pistol

Also:

"A manstopper is a generic term used to describe any combination of firearm and ammunition that can reliably incapacitate, or "stop", a human target immediately. For example, the .45 ACP pistol round and the .357 Magnum revolver round both have firm reputations as "manstoppers"."

http://en.wikipedia..../Stopping_power

The gun was designed to stop a drugged Philipino before he could run up to you and stick a giant knife in your chest so I think IRL, it was fine as it was before they nerfed it.

Are you serious? Scroll up and read my posts.

The video I linked to DIRECTLY addresses your point.

Once again, if you're immune to pain and fear (like a plague zombie or a drugged up moro), pistol rounds have to hit the CNS to cause an immediate incapacitation. If you knick an artery or collapse a lung, the plague zombie is not going to care. Oh, they'll die… but that death will take time.

[Nexus545 13]

I don't understand why people are complaining this much. I find more .45 ACP ammo than I do for any other gun in the game it makes sense to have it do less damage as a weapon balace type thing thing. Maybe not for realism but you have to find that balace somewhere between weapon balance and realism in most cases.

[Max Planck 7174]

I don't understand why people are complaining this much. I find more .45 ACP ammo than I do for any other gun in the game it makes sense to have it do less damage as a weapon balace type thing thing. Maybe not for realism but you have to find that balace somewhere between weapon balance and realism in most cases.

You know what? I'll just repeat myself, it's easier that way.

Here goes, it's about balance vs realism:

"I play for the immersion, the feeling that I'm actually there trying to survive. I like sneaking around, listening to the creaking branches and the birds, knowing that someone might be close and that a single bullet can kill me.

That feeling is lost with the changes in 1.62, and I really think that sucks. It's not like there's a ton of other places I can go to find a smiliar experience, but people who want a 'Boom-headshot-lololol' multiplayer shooter have options a plenty."

[LaurenDanger 100]

None of this explains why I needed two close range hits on a zombie with my M14. Was the 7.62 value lowered as well for these, shall we say, older, beefier rifles? Some died in one shot, some in two, and I saw the blood splatter effect so I know I hit the first time on the few that needed a second shot.

Backward running wild firing is not really as much fun as the brochure made it seem!

[Falcrist 119]

None of this explains why I needed two close range hits on a zombie with my M14. Was the 7.62 value lowered as well for these, shall we say, older, beefier rifles? Some died in one shot, some in two, and I saw the blood splatter effect so I know I hit the first time on the few that needed a second shot.

Backward running wild firing is not really as much fun as the brochure made it seem!

My precious M14 doesn't land body shots. If it doesn't hit the head, it misses completely.

I love that gun so much! <3

[LaurenDanger 100]

My precious M14 doesn't land body shots. If it doesn't hit the head, it misses completely.

I love that gun so much! <3

Today was the first time I had to fire it. It is nice, and I did land some head shots before running from a respawn of zombie army men on top of my position in the middle of a field. I knew there was a reason I took that instead of the AK 74.

[Max Planck 7174]

So, according to the wisest owls of the arma community, the changes are due to fixing some 'air drag' bug and were done on purpose.

The discussion starts here: http://forums.bistud...ate-1-62/page20

It's worth a read, there's even a few sensible voices buried in all the DayZ bashing.

I guess we better get used to playing a game in which you can take 14 gunshots to the chest and keep on tapdancing.

EDIT: tapdancing emote maybe?

Edited July 28, 2012 by Max Planck

[mythlawlbear 14]

Weapon damage is fine when your aiming at zeds. Players need a health nerf though, big time.

[vulfy 55]

I like it that its harder to kill zombies now. Makes me a lot more cautious around them. They swarm, I'm fucked. Thats how it was suppose to be from the start.

[Max Planck 7174]

Weapon damage is fine when your aiming at zeds. Players need a health nerf though, big time.

I like it that its harder to kill zombies now. Makes me a lot more cautious around them. They swarm, I'm fucked. Thats how it was suppose to be from the start.

Yes and yes.

We really need the player health nerf.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Max Planck

[SystemiK 366]

http://forums.bistud...ate-1-62/page20

Exactly what I was looking for with no luck. Thanks.

[DeadPanic 5]

15 rounds from my MP5 to break the windows at the hospital today.

or one tin can?.........

[Skint (DayZ) 138]

Weapons nerf was applied specifically for Arma 2, here's what Marek Spanel, CEO of BiS has said about the changes and the lack of notification:

"Because it is all conspiracy (refering to lack of notification). Or maybe we just forgot to list it? On the other hand, the changes have purpose and reasons but here is full description of changes made:

1) Grad and MLRS ammo were not able to knock out vehicles

2) Makarov, 545x39, .45, .303, Slug745 and Sa-61 ammo were more powerfull than they should be"

http://forums.bistud...l=1#post2196356

The main reason for weapons nerf seems to be the fact that military units in Arma 2 wear some sort of body armor as standard and the changes were implemented to take this into account, therefore in Arma this all makes some kind of sense.

However, in DayZ, no character, (players or Zeds) has armor, so the effects are severe. I would like to think that Rocket either is planning to add armor for players or tweak the damage ratings. Or, of course, do nothing and let us adapt to the changes.

[rebb 13]

Weapons nerf was applied specifically for Arma 2, here's what Marek Spanel, CEO of BiS has said about the changes and the lack of notification:

"Because it is all conspiracy (refering to lack of notification). Or maybe we just forgot to list it? On the other hand, the changes have purpose and reasons but here is full description of changes made:

1) Grad and MLRS ammo were not able to knock out vehicles

2) Makarov, 545x39, .45, .303, Slug745 and Sa-61 ammo were more powerfull than they should be"

http://forums.bistud...l=1#post2196356

The main reason for weapons nerf seems to be the fact that military units in Arma 2 wear some sort of body armor as standard and the changes were implemented to take this into account, therefore in Arma this all makes some kind of sense.

However, in DayZ, no character, (players or Zeds) has armor, so the effects are severe. I would like to think that Rocket either is planning to add armor for players or tweak the damage ratings. Or, of course, do nothing and let us adapt to the changes.

If this is a fix for the base game, why wasn't this applied years earlier ?

[Sakeoe (DayZ) 115]

Weapon damage is fine when your aiming at zeds. Players need a health nerf though, big time.

No, you can't just nerf player health (or zed health as some suggested). Sure nerfing the health will put the nerfed weapons back at the place they where before, but what about the non nerfed weapon? Those will become even stronger if healthpools get smaller.

[SystemiK 366]

If this is a fix for the base game, why wasn't this applied years earlier ?

It was more like a hotfix to a fix if I understood it correctly...

[Kophka 109]

If this is a fix for the base game, why wasn't this applied years earlier ?

Just between you and me, Arma 2 was on the back burner before day z. You can probably count the number of beta updates in 2011 with just your fingers. However, when Day Z exploded (yes, exploded) onto the scene, there was suddenly a Beta patch about every 20 hours for the past month and a half. :)

[alienfreak 6]

Just between you and me, Arma 2 was on the back burner before day z. You can probably count the number of beta updates in 2011 with just your fingers. However, when Day Z exploded (yes, exploded) onto the scene, there was suddenly a Beta patch about every 20 hours for the past month and a half. :)

ArmA 3 is closing in. And its using an engine based on this one... so many of the fixes will be for both. Tahts why you see alot. And features rocket wanted.

Considering how much dedication the ACE team, Benny and Xeno (just a few examples) showed for ArmA for now more than half a decade it is sad to see them crawling up rockets ass with features every day while those others have even posted fixes for the bugs in the tickets but they never got fixed.

[Cobalt Pete (xbow) 0]

The problem isn't that it takes so and so shots to kill zombies. That's okay. I like that. Zombies are harder to kill now. Great.

The problem is that a human can take 6 or so shots to the chest with a .45. That's retarded. What's even more retarded is that AK shots do more damage even though they are of a lower caliber.

And it makes more sense in real life to aim for the center of mass. Why the hell would I be aiming at the much smaller and much harder to hit head when hitting the body should incapacitate the person most of the time?

the AK variants excluding the AKM(7.62x39mm) all use the 5.45x39mm, which is notorious for causing massive trauma due to the tumbling nature of the bullet.

[underscore 12]

So, according to the wisest owls of the arma community, the changes are due to fixing some 'air drag' bug and were done on purpose.

I guess we better get used to playing a game in which you can take 14 gunshots to the chest and keep on tapdancing.

I followed that thread very closely. Honestly, I'm confused, but it seems everybody was making the assumption that all combatants in ARMA are wearing body armour? If so, then the new values make more sense. Still, something seems extremely fishy to me. Like it's been said on these forums over and over, there's no way it should take more than a couple of rounds of .45 at close range to incapacitate and/or kill a man who is not wearing a bulletproof vest. And, I was under the impression that none of the dayz character models are wearing body armour of any sort? So, I'm not quite sure what gives, but I'm still inclined to call bullshit.

Edit: My observations regarding the BIS forum discussion echo more or less what Skint related a few posts above mine.

Also, all these twits claiming they can walk through 9mm fire are suffering from internet tough guy syndrome. The cops in my hometown are particularly trigger happy and they gun down fools any chance they get. Their prefered method of delivery is a few 9mm rounds to the chest (or back) and almost all of these shootings are fatal for those on the receiving end.

Edited July 30, 2012 by underscore

[Max Planck 7174]

I followed that thread very closely. Honestly, I'm confused, but it seems everybody was making the assumption that all combatants in ARMA are wearing body armour? If so, then the new values make more sense. Still, something seems extremely fishy to me. Like it's been said on these forums over and over, there's no way it should take more than a couple of rounds of .45 at close range to incapacitate and/or kill a man who is not wearing a bulletproof vest. And, I was under the impression that none of the dayz character models are wearing body armour of any sort? So, I'm not quite sure what gives, but I'm still inclined to call bullshit.

Also, all these twits claiming they can walk through 9mm fire are suffering from internet tough guy syndrome. The cops in my hometown are particularly trigger happy and they gun down fools any chance they get. Their prefered method of delivery is a few 9mm rounds to the chest (or back) and almost all of these shootings are fatal for those on the receiving end.

That's the thing. In arma the combatants are wearing body armor, so the change does make sense. In DayZ there's no armor, so a little fix to the mod files might be required.

BIS needs to keep developing their game and they'll do it the way they see fit, mods or no mods. If Rocket wants DayZ to stay the way it was he'll have to change up the mod a bit.

[underscore 12]

Considering how much dedication the ACE team, Benny and Xeno (just a few examples) showed for ArmA for now more than half a decade it is sad to see them crawling up rockets ass with features every day while those others have even posted fixes for the bugs in the tickets but they never got fixed.

Yes, I think this is a legitimate sore spot for quite a few of the hardcore, long-time ARMA guys. I remember that when something along these lines was suggested on the BI forums a few weeks back, the response from Marek himself was quite arrogant and off-putting. OTOH, the flagrant bashing of the DayZ community and player base going on over there is completely out of line and greatly misguided.