Just to make things clear - weapons nerf is not a DayZ patch.

[reddeer01 5]

Yeah they need to desperately up the power of certain guns, E.g. the Makarov

Put 5 bullets into a single zombie earlier today. The remaining 3 in his head. Thats a whole mag and i haven't even dealt with his friend yet.

Even my Winchester feels like a paintball gun against them now.

[Luke4202 7]

I don't care if it's 9mm or .45 ACP. You can't instantly neutralize anyone with a body shot unless you hit their central nervous system or you convince them to be neutralized.

In real life, if you take a pistol round to the stomach it's not going to kill you immediately, regardless of the caliber. However you're probably going to stop doing whatever the hell you were trying to do because of the pain and fear.

In this game, you're shooting at zombies. Zombies don't give any fucks about pain. Zombies just want to eat you alive.

Realistically, you should HAVE to shoot for the head to kill a zombie… if zombies were real that is.

The "stomach" contains a little thing called the Aorta. A hit to the aorta/heart is the fastest way to kill anything, head shots included. When hunting in real life, one shot kills are a must, and nobody aims for the head. The chest is where it's at.

[Luke4202 7]

The problem isn't that it takes so and so shots to kill zombies. That's okay. I like that. Zombies are harder to kill now. Great.

The problem is that a human can take 6 or so shots to the chest with a .45. That's retarded. What's even more retarded is that AK shots do more damage even though they are of a lower caliber.

And it makes more sense in real life to aim for the center of mass. Why the hell would I be aiming at the much smaller and much harder to hit head when hitting the body should incapacitate the person most of the time?

This is actually interesting, caliber is not the important thing here. Rifle vs. pistol ammo is. Pistol ammo travels much slower and leaves a puncture wound. So you remove the bullet and sew up the hole. A rifle bullet has so much more velocity and force with it that it actually leaves a cone of damage as it travels through the body. So, even though the AK has a smaller round, it actually carves a bigger path through the body than a .45 would. It doesn't leave as neat of a puncture wound, so it's harder to close. A rifle round also drags all sorts of bacteria into the wound so you have to give antibiotics as well.

[Kophka 109]

I don't know why people are all fired up and clinging to the idea that you should have to shoot Infected in the head to kill them. They're not undead guys. They still have functioning respiratory systems and circulatory systems (being that they are sick humans, NOT undead ;) ). Guess what the best way to kill something with a respiratory and circulatory system is? One (1) well placed bullet to the high thoracic zone! A 9mm to the center of the chest destroys the heart, a bit above that destroys the air passages, and a bit to the left or right on the chest destroys the lungs.

I can understand the 9mm taking a couple of shots in game, because these are pissed off rage monsters, who are probably immune to things like shock and pain. The .45 however creates enough shock to instantly shut down a functioning system, whether they feel it or not. .45 should still be a 1 shot any where in the chest or higher. :)

[octopos 26]

A player named Beard unloaded two M1911 magazines into chest of some one in Vyshnoey, last night in US 789, one was dancing, one was shooting. One pointed a FAL and make 2 shoots. One died crying like a baby after 14 shoots.

Seen legit and well balanced for me.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

How do people think that the arma patch had nothing to do with DayZ, BI announced that the 1.61 patch would contain content for dayz specifically, it was their official endoursement of the game. The president/ceo was interviewed over at kotaku like a month ago about it.

Now all of the first tier weapons, ie pistols, shotguns, and AK-74's are nerfed to reduce damage. I don't care about the zombies I think they should be harder to kill but I do care about killing other players its complete BS to that you need to shoot someone close range with a shotgun four times. And the 74 fires a larger round, but with less powder, than the ar style rifles. It is known for causing horrific wounds and is a major reason the US has started using 6.8 SPC rather than 5.56. And the lee really eats it, it shoots damn near the same bullet as DMR, M24, M14 Aim but does 2k less damage?? WTF

The worst part is the fact that all of these weapons are the easy to find weapons, there should be no balance based on weapon rarity, location, ammo availability. Weapons should do realisitic damage across the board at realistic ranges. This reeks like a nerf for balancing released by the studio.

[Hashisx 52]

quit crying. really quit crying

aim better

or

risk more to find better guns

[plymouth_colony 10]

The whole zombies are easy thing is stupid. Zombies have always been about numbers a few zombies should be easy, if you engage zombies you give away your location I would say I spot playing 50% of the time cause I see the running zombies first.

C'mon, after the last DayZ update Zombies were just deaf and blind. Before they were pretty hard to manage.

I lost against a hatchet man today. I fired like 10 times on him, maybe I hit him 3 times? 4 times? I have no idea, but that definitely is too weak. Cos now you'd better do a zigzag hatchet attack.

[wolfstriked 143]

Nevermind BIS,whats crazy is that there have been numerous threads on this and not one post from the Dayz group.Just a little peep in saying"we know about the weapons nerf and will fix it" or "we know about the weapon nerf and we are happy where weapons are now in terms of damage and upgrade".

[davidecibel 55]

Still no official positionon this huh? also, I just noticed that a new arma patch has been released... gonna try it out right away

[Falcrist 119]

You apparently don't realize how messy .45 ACP is when fired into an unarmored body.

A 9mm pistol round, I agree with you.

But .45 ACP?

I don't care if it's a walking corpse, anything that gets holes blown out of them that big isn't going to stay on its feet. Animated corpses or not, they still rely on muscle-locomotion and nerve-signals to move just like any living body, and .45's stopping power annihilates that.

I can't begin to describe my lack of enthusiasm for .45 ACP advocates.

A larger round will almost always do more damage, assuming similar penetration, but a pistol round is a pistol round in this case. Unless you hit the CNS or hit the heart directly, the zombie is going to continue to attack you. Oh sure, internal bleeding will kill it eventually, but not instantly.

The "stomach" contains a little thing called the Aorta. A hit to the aorta/heart is the fastest way to kill anything, head shots included.

The absolute fastest way to kill anything is to hit the brain stem.

When hunting in real life, one shot kills are a must, and nobody aims for the head. The chest is where it's at.

So you hunt with 9mm and .45 ACP? That's what we're talking about here.

[Kophka 109]

Hunting with 9mm or .45 is frowned upon, but there have been multiple instances of animals like mountain lions or hogs killed with a single pistol caliber round to a vital spot. The difference between humans and animals is that animals vitals are protected by dense muscle, where as even the most buff and cut human being has their vitals presented for target practice.

Any how, if you research "hydrostatic shock", there are multiple instances of a small handgun round damaging/destroying vitals that they didn't touch, because of the shock wave of impact and pass through.

So realisim arguers can feel perfectly justified claiming that a single 9mm round to the high thoracic zone would kill even an adrenaline fueled rage psycho, because no matter how tough and pain resistant they are, when their heart stops/brain can't get blood/oxygen, (from either shock or a direct hit) they die.

In-game wise, the 9mm taking a few more chest shots than the .45 is an ok mechanic. It's pretty widely accepted that the .45 has more impact/stopping power than a 9mm, so it works out pretty well for everyone. The .45 makes up for it's in-game strength vs 9mm by the 9mm having more rounds per magazine it's a good balance.

The sidearms really need to be put back to where they were, there was nothing wrong with them in Day Z.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Kophka

[Falcrist 119]

Hydrostatic shock? Ask Michael Lee Platt how bad it really is.

I'm sure it's not a complete myth, but at the same time, I ONLY see it brought up in the context of .45 ACP.

If you have some time to watch a video, have a look at this:

This guy pretty much mirrors my own thoughts.

I'm sure I remember hickok45 talking about this subject in one of his radio shows or videos, but there's no way I'm going to find it now without re-watching all his videos. :-/

Basically, everyone I've ever seen with actual combat experience tells me the same thing. One pistol round to the chest isn't going to instantly kill most targets unless you hit the CNS or heart. In the context of zombies (albeit plague zombies) this means it's going to take more than one round in the chest cavity to completely stop a zombie. The reason is that they aren't going to suffer the same psychological effects that normal humans (or even animals) will. They have no fear, and no pain. They don't stop until you literally shut down their bodies.

[Max Planck 7174]

Basically, everyone I've ever seen with actual combat experience tells me the same thing. One pistol round to the chest isn't going to instantly kill most targets unless you hit the CNS or heart. In the context of zombies (albeit plague zombies) this means it's going to take more than one round in the chest cavity to completely stop a zombie. The reason is that they aren't going to suffer the same psychological effects that normal humans (or even animals) will. They have no fear, and no pain. They don't stop until you literally shut down their bodies.

Ok. Zombies aside, do you think it's a good thing that it takes more than a full magazine from a 45cal pistol to kill a living non-infected human?

Is it authentic?

Does it 'fit' in the DayZ experience?

[bogroll (DayZ) 26]

Can anybody speculate as to why Bohemia decided to do a significant weapon rebalance now, as it's been 3 years since it was released? Surely they would have sorted all that all out ages ago. Rocket must have known of this and signed off on it, but as yet he has said nothing.

Also he indicted clearly that any weapon rebalance however minor was way down the list of priorities.

Personally i think the changes sucks balls - Having to fill a player with holes with a pistol THEN having to reload to finish the fucker is crap CoD territory - even worse maybe.

Edited July 27, 2012 by bogroll

[Falcrist 119]

Ok. Zombies aside, do you think it's a good thing that it takes more than a full magazine from a 45cal pistol to kill a living non-infected human?

Is it authentic?

Does it 'fit' in the DayZ experience?

Oh no, that's a completely different topic.

I'm sure a determined enough person could withstand a couple shots of .45, but I can't imagine even a plague zombie continuing to move with more than a mag of lead embedded in their torso. Even if you're tripping balls, you're still going to lose consciousness eventually.

I suppose Rocket could excuse it by making something up about how survivors have some king of special physiological trait that makes them more durable in addition to being immune from the plague. Then again, that would be kinda lame.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Falcrist

[atlantis_risen 14]

Guys, these nerfed guns do not make the game more challenging. Yes, your rounds do less damage to enemies, but you take less damage as well, so it evens out. What it does do is kill the realism. This is killing any 'simulation' aspect of the game. One shot should kill or seriously wound any human. With a zombie, and only a zombie, shots to the chest should do little damage.

[JakoSpades 0]

I was able to hatchet someone to death that unloaded a m1911 clip into me (on a regular server). I'm not a hacker/glitcher, his bullets just weren't hurting me much at all, and I kept chopping away. You should not be able to survive so many m1911 bullets. (Even on a 'regular' server.)

[Max Planck 7174]

Oh no, that's a completely different topic.

I'm sure a determined enough person could withstand a couple shots of .45, but I can't imagine even a plague zombie continuing to move with more than a mag of lead embedded in their torso. Even if you're tripping balls, you're still going to lose consciousness eventually.

I suppose Rocket could excuse it by making something up about how survivors have some king of special physiological trait that makes them more durable in addition to being immune from the plague. Then again, that would be kinda lame.

I think it is the most important topic, I don't care that much about damage to the zeds as they are very sneakaroundable.

But when it comes to fighting other players, these changes have bombed the immersion back to... well, CoD.

Guys, these nerfed guns do not make the game more challenging. Yes, your rounds do less damage to enemies, but you take less damage as well, so it evens out. What it does do is kill the realism. This is killing any 'simulation' aspect of the game. One shot should kill or seriously wound any human. With a zombie, and only a zombie, shots to the chest should do little damage.

Who are you talking to? There is a quote function.

[Falcrist 119]

I think it is the most important topic, I don't care that much about damage to the zeds as they are very sneakaroundable.

That's debatable. This isn't a deathmatch.

I almost always avoid players rather than engaging them. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you get into a fight with another player, there is a chance you'll die.

On the other hand, there are quite a few people who like playing in DM_Cherno, and DM_Elektro. Personally, I prefer DM4, Q2DM1, or Q2DM2 if I'm going to PvP.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Falcrist

[Max Planck 7174]

That's debatable. This isn't a deathmatch.

I almost always avoid players rather than engaging them. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you get into a fight with another player, there is a chance you'll die.

On the other hand, there are quite a few people who like playing in DM_Cherno, and DM_Elektro. Personally, I prefer DM4, Q2DM1, or Q2DM2 if I'm going to PvP.

I avoid players as well and I mostly stay away from the bigger cities. I'm aware this isn't deathmatch.

I play for the immersion, the feeling that I'm actually there trying to survive. I like sneaking around, listening to the creaking branches and the birds, knowing that someone might be close and that a single bullet can kill me.

That feeling is lost with the changes in 1.62, and I really think that sucks. It's not like there's a ton of other places I can go to find a smiliar experience, but people who want a 'Boom-headshot-lololol' multiplayer shooter have options a plenty.

[wolfstriked 143]

Its very hard to do damage for weapons as they do different things once they reach their target dependent on alot of factors.From modding in past I think you just have to generalize them.IMO the Enfield is good where it is now.Its an older weapon and even though its bullet is similar in size to the 7.62x51 it doesn't build the same pressure as a more modern rifle would.If you look at muzzle velocity then you see the difference with comparable bullet size.

FN FAL=840m/s

LEE =740m/s

And it relates to damage in game pretty well.

FN FAL=8000

LEE =6722...close to 7K

This is how I look at it and so I agree with it.But the AK family is off as it should be equal to the AR family.And if you go by the muzzle velocity thing to govern power then why are the shorter barrel weapons firing with same damage potential as their longer counterparts?And same with the AR family with its shorter variants matching the longer one in damage.And finally,who was the genius to put an AK74 equal to a silenced M4a1 in damage. :rolleyes:

AK74 =900m/s

AKS74u=730m/s

and the

M16 =948m/s

M4A1=848m/s

Put AK74 equal to the M16 in damage potential while putting the M4A1 and the AKS74u at slightly lower damage potential.Then put the recoil slightly higher for the longer barrel cuzins and voila....they already have a longer effective range so that is good.

[Max Planck 7174]

Its very hard to do damage for weapons as they do different things once they reach their target dependent on alot of factors.From modding in past I think you just have to generalize them.IMO the Enfield is good where it is now.Its an older weapon and even though its bullet is similar in size to the 7.62x51 it doesn't build the same pressure as a more modern rifle would.If you look at muzzle velocity then you see the difference with comparable bullet size.

FN FAL=840m/s

LEE =740m/s

And it relates to damage in game pretty well.

FN FAL=8000

LEE =6722...close to 7K

This is how I look at it and so I agree with it.But the AK family is off as it should be equal to the AR family.And if you go by the muzzle velocity thing to govern power then why are the shorter barrel weapons firing with same damage potential as their longer counterparts?And same with the AR family with its shorter variants matching the longer one in damage.And finally,who was the genius to put an AK74 equal to a silenced M4a1 in damage. :rolleyes:

AK74 =900m/s

AKS74u=730m/s

and the

M16 =948m/s

M4A1=848m/s

Put AK74 equal to the M16 in damage potential while putting the M4A1 and the AKS74u at slightly lower damage potential.Then put the recoil slightly higher for the longer barrel cuzins and voila....they already have a longer effective range so that is good.

Those are some nice numbers, you clearly put some effort into it.

That said, if someone shoots you in the chest with a rifle you will need to lie down for a bit. I think the damage should reflect this.

[KField86 237]

I knew it wasn't a DayZ patch because if it was that would imply "Balancing" and we all know rocket aint balancing shit. I'm sure rocket could tweak the values if he wants to bring them back to their original state for day z.

[wolfstriked 143]

Those are some nice numbers, you clearly put some effort into it.

That said, if someone shoots you in the chest with a rifle you will need to lie down for a bit. I think the damage should reflect this.

IMO to simulate being hurt in Dayz,they could add in the massive weapon sway when your blood goes below a certain level.That is some annoying shit right there so I do not know if people would be happy with that.LOL