DayZ Massive overhaul

[Warped_Jack 16]

Link plz. Seen a couple interviews, but none that are anti events (thus far). Class system, yeah, can see why that has some drawbacks and would drive the game in a more RP direction than a survival one, but I'm certain I HAVE seen him intending to add more 'end-game' content.

Also, chill. These are suggestions, not demands. I like DayZ as it is, but extra, well thought out content rarely hurts.

[Carebear Baddie 47]

If you'd have bothered to listen to Rocket or his interviews at all, you'd realise this is not the direction he wants

to take DayZ in. If you're looking for said things, DayZ isn't for you and THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE.

Stop trying to turn it into something you want it to be and enjoy the ride. You don't HAVE to play DayZ.

You mean quotes like this one?

It is going to be even harder to balance that, that coming up with something like humanity. But I think the idea will be to tie it in with the concept of groups, lone wolfs, etc...

Having it so that people can develop and specialize a character to become an engineer, weapons tech, doctor, something like that - might encourage people to group together and the benefit of an individuals skill becomes important beyond just the loot they carry.

All this humanity BS and whatnot, it's not really working. The only way to solve this, as people have said time and again here, is to provide a bit more authenticity around the experience in terms of individual contribution to a group. Having that guy with medical experience in your group is going to be worth keeping him around, even though you have to split the loot.

This kind of positive benefit still provides for the lone wolf experience, and lets the crazies still going around and slaughter everything that moves.

The question is the balance, getting that right so that people who loose their characters don't commit suicide in real life. Or like, come to my apartment and shit on my doorstep or something. But it needs to be done in such a way that you don't become specialized in everything nor do you even NEED to become specialized in everything. I had a rudimentary system in place prior to alpha but I took it out pending development of some UI.

[zombiejun 13]

PVP makes this game, gtfo if you disagree.

PVP is an important factor in this game, but it doesn't make the game. pvp makes the game in LoL, CoD, BF and so on..

[generationvii 6]

You mean quotes like this one?

Thanks for aknowledging OP's "visions" are a waste of space.

I do remember that Rocket interview and the reason i dissed OP's ideas is because of the aiming, RoF and reloading

skills he mentioned. He's bitching about bandits and PvP now? Guess which skill they'll excel at the most.

I'm just tired of finding threads like these since i've joined the forums. The reason i felt like replying to this one

is because of OP's "I've come to save DayZ" attitude when he's just repeating what has already been brought up

a thousand times in a lovely wall of text format.

Use the search function, it's there for a reason. /thread

[Carebear Baddie 47]

lol guy, whatever you want to believe.

[wtfosaurus 30]

I agree with most of your points apart from the 'skills' and possibly the military AI. Really great suggestions overall and lets hope the get implemented!

[Cpt0bv1us 4]

So, adding content will ruin the game? Also, your only argument for not adding any NPC interaction is "it will become WarZ!" Errrm... no? WarZ so far promises a variety of very MMO elements, many of which are NOT included as ideas for this mod (and they shouldn't be). Having a few similar elements is not necessarily a bad thing. So is there any other reason not to include NPCs?

Also you take the common minecraft comparison. Minecraft added NPCs, and it was pointless. Totally pointless. It's taken months for them even to implement some sort of trading with the NPCs. That's cool and everything, and a lot of people whined about the NPCs then as well. But, being a sandbox, you have no requirement to interact with said NPCs anyway. Even when first pointlessly implemented, Minecraft didn't spontaneously combust and stop being a fun sandbox game.

Re: Clans - of course playing with people opens up more options to you. Surely adding more content also adds options for them too? (Both intended, and perhaps not intended) More content = more player options = more chances to be imaginative, surely?

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but it does seem a lot of people are anti PvE content, just because it has a PvE label

Ok you clearly do not understand the difference between changing and adding content. I'm all for adding content. The problem with this thread is it wants to CHANGE DayZ into something its not and should never be. The person who wrote this and the ones agreeing with it are typical MMO players that want the MMO experience because DayZ is apparently an MMO now (didnt realize 50 people meant MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER).

You yourself gave the reason why they SHOULDNT add NPC's, "Minecraft added NPCs, and it was pointless. Totally pointless." In a real zombie apocalypse, do you think there will be safe places? Havens where cars can drive freely and people can have a beer? Hellllllll no! That's why its not in the game because this SIMULATOR is going for realism as much as possible.

Continuing with the fact this is a mod for a simulator that aims for realism, how would these special events setup when Chenaurus is 250 square Km? Do they use their cell phones? No. Once again, the realism factor is what keeps this from being implemented (for the better). Clans are where events should be and where they should stay.

To the person that commented on my Russia stereotype, yes it was a stereotype. No Russians don't hunt with M16's and whatnot but it doesn't matter. It's a stereotype that the Dev's sort of inserted into the game. If you actually think about it, its pretty funny. Anything else?

-Cpt0bv1us

Edited August 10, 2012 by Cpt0bv1us

[Cpt0bv1us 4]

Facepalm N1 - This game is set in Chernarus - fictional post - soviet country, 225 sq km and about 3,5 million citizens. Not Russia

Facepalm N2 - have you ever been in Russia? I have. And I live in a rather big post-soviet country (Ukraine). We don't have AK's in fire stations and we don't hunt deers with M16. Following your stereotype, there should be bears, vodka and matrioshka around every corner of cherno, lol

Facepalm N3 - where did I mention rewards? (other than logical loot from killed NPC soldiers, which makes perfect sense).

Facepalm N4 - Pretty much the first thing I tell about myself is that I'm playing with skype-buddies. So I have good experience in both group and lonely surviving.

Free facepalms for everyone! Thank you for taking your time to type all that, anyway.

Since you don't seem to believe me, here is a BI page talking about Chenaraus: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Chernarus

Oh and in case you didn't know, post soviet country can mean Russia.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Cpt0bv1us

[TheProphecy 33]

Since you don't seem to believe me, here is a BI page talking about Chenaraus: http://community.bis.../wiki/Chernarus

Oh and in case you didn't know, post soviet country can mean Russia.

Did you even bother to read the page?

"The population of Chernarus is a combination of Chernarussian and Russian peoples. Russian populations are mostly condensed in the Northeastern region of South Zagoria in towns such as Krasnostav."

That's pretty self-explanatory.

[RIGHTLY 87]

I like the simple and subtle "skills" idea, but still, there should be something that shows you your skills progress. Maybe holding down i (The button that shows you your scores) will have your skill levels shown by bars for each of the skills on the top left of the screen. The bars start at 0% and eventually reach the max of 100% when you do whatever is required to bring them up.

[Warped_Jack 16]

Ok you clearly do not understand the difference between changing and adding content. I'm all for adding content. The problem with this thread is it wants to CHANGE DayZ into something its not and should never be. The person who wrote this and the ones agreeing with it are typical MMO players that want the MMO experience because DayZ is apparently an MMO now (didnt realize 50 people meant MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER).

You yourself gave the reason why they SHOULDNT add NPC's, "Minecraft added NPCs, and it was pointless. Totally pointless." In a real zombie apocalypse, do you think there will be safe places? Havens where cars can drive freely and people can have a beer? Hellllllll no! That's why its not in the game because this SIMULATOR is going for realism as much as possible.

Continuing with the fact this is a mod for a simulator that aims for realism, how would these special events setup when Chenaurus is 250 square Km? Do they use their cell phones? No. Once again, the realism factor is what keeps this from being implemented (for the better). Clans are where events should be and where they should stay.

Okay, okay, I have to agree the skills/stats idea does push boundaries more towards RP gameplay than strictly survival. That's not an MMO thing by the way, more games have done it for far longer. It adds an extra dynamic to explore and expand your character, past just getting the best gear (which, incidentally is also a BIG MMO dynamic, but you seem 'kay with that?). But fine, you don't want that, because it feels like the wrong direction for DayZ. You still haven't said why though, just saying. Other than URGH MMO URUGHH NO you haven't really made a point. Really, what is wrong with character development?

My point about Minecraft NPCs is that it should be a lesson that they need to be intelligently implemented with a clear purpose. So I'm definitely not up for random NPCs wandering about doing nothing. If they're there, they're there for a reason, and they are interactable. NOT as quest givers, or traders, or some other random thing, but as entities you can choose to either kill, protect or even use as bait. Minecraft did none of that, and it was a total waste of time, but that doesn't mean all npcs in any sandbox EVER is a waste of time, that's a ridiculous sentiment.

And here you kind of make a point, then screw yourself. So none of these events should happen, because it shouldn't be possible in-game to find out about them? Because no one has mobile phones to be like "OH HEY, GUY, SAW SOME MILITARY DOODS, LET'S GANK 'EM" then it shouldn't happen? WEEELLL this game is already meta'd the fuck out of. Simply using an online map, or the wiki, or this forum, classes as some level of meta. THEN the fact you claim this kind of activity should stick to clans? Oh so you use teamspeak or skype? So effectively, that's equivalent to all of your characters having phones/radios simultaneously, all of the time. You can't really claim that's okay, but other events happening isn't "COS REALISM"; your argument just doesn't hold. Plus, radios are already implemented to some degree, they could be used as link to server wide events. No meta needed.

In summary, you can have events, and keep the realism. It's what I want too bro. None of the suggestions in this thread are perfect, but shooting ideas down won't help.

Plus, I play with friends, and I guess that makes us our own sort of clan sort of, but I don't feel like there should be a monopoly on events if you're a clan. Lone wolves and small groups play this game too, miscellaneous shit happening to mix things up a bit should be available for everyone.

[Rallige 74]

I like how ppl say "HURR DURR THIS IS A SIMULATOR NOT A FUN GAME", then go back to their DayZ session, get main rotor assembly from their backpack, install it and fly chopper (while I can bet my money nobody on the forum can do both at the same time, at least with no help) only to get shot down by 45kg female, shooting .50 cal rifle on the move.

Realism all the way. No suggestions, destroying realism please. This is a simulator, after all.

[ZildCrab 0]

I like how ppl say "HURR DURR THIS IS A SIMULATOR NOT A FUN GAME", then go back to their DayZ session, get main rotor assembly from their backpack, install it and fly chopper (while I can bet my money nobody on the forum can do both at the same time, at least with no help) only to get shot down by 45kg female, shooting .50 cal rifle on the move.

Realism all the way. No suggestions, destroying realism please. This is a simulator, after all.

Man, I read all your posts and I can't agree more with you. I bought ARMA during steam's summer sale just to play DAYZ.

First time I logged in, I started walking and saw a zombie, he/it started chasing me and at that moment I found out.. "HEY a WAR SIMULATOR where the guy can't use his/her fists or legs to punch or kick in critical moments"...

I can understand that if you want the real deal you should probably need to stop playing games.. and I do aknowledge that there are a lot of "cool" things that makes you get really focused on surviving other than just grabbing the biggest rocket launcher available. But wtf.. I can't kick the damn zombie?.. what's realistic about that?. I mean even on Dead Island you can just run a throw a flying kick to his face and keep running.

Also as I understand the arch-enemy of this game would be call of duty.. i like cod, not my favourite game but i like it. Anyway.. even in call of duty there are things more realistic.. like using your weapons back to knock an enemy.

I don't want to start a debate... but if you're going to be screaming to anyone who critizes the game better know what the f*** you're talking about.

About this being called an MMO.. well maybe, maybe not.. but I agree that this shares a LOT of caracteristics with a true MMO, it's just that the servers are smaller.

I like dayz... i'm still getting use to the lack of movement that the character has.. but I really like it, mostly I like the idea of the game. About pvp.. I guess that Rallige made a couple of very interesing points. I still think that is a very hard and sensitive thing to resolve, most well-known MMORPGs have the same problem and they still haven't figure that out.

I think that pvp should always be examinated taking into account other matters as skills, or character progression. What I mean with this is that this way you don't have the same old problem "the more time you play the better and indestructible you are".. that's one of the biggests problems about pvp.

Edited August 17, 2012 by ZildCrab

[xximrtwoixx 104]

What I mean with this is that this way you don't have the same old problem "the more time you play the better and indestructible you are".. that's one of the biggests problems about pvp.

This isn't an issue with DayZ now, a noob with a handgun/whinny can own a character that has been alive for a month if the player is smart, all guns are deadly and all characters are the same liquid filled meat bags.

I hope this never changes, its part of what makes DayZ great IMO, yes you die it sucks, but you can be back to being a bad ass as soon as you find any gun. I am for skill systems because unlike rocket I want people to break down and lose their shit when they die in game, I want tears, I want rage, and I want no escape (altF4/Hopping). I think this is the only thing that will force the majority of people to actually take stock in their characters life instead of the crap they are carrying.

I am not for a "learn by doing system" as it can be farmed and exploited just like the current loot mechanic, even though something has a low percentage to spawn it can be farmed so nothing is rare. I prefer point buy at character creation and aquisition of skill points by time alive for a character, this allows a player to build whatever character they want and can not be exploited. You can still get the "specialization" by locking out certain skills and alos encourage grouping by adding "teaching" abilities.

[ZildCrab 0]

sounds interesting.. I guess we can agree that there are several great ideas going on in this thread.

Hopefully a bunch of them get applied to the current mod / future stand-alone game.

[TheCoconutChef 9]

I'm sorry to say that there is a basic flaw in your reasonning:

You don't MASSIVELY overhaul something which got MASSIVELY popular.

You run the very real risk of of ruinning what made it good in the first place.

The problem with what you suggest starts with your categorization of player, which is too particular and tailor-made specifically to suit your needs, namely: to exclude PvP oriented player. Those misconceptions are also why your categorization got to have so many exceptions and subtelties (ie. "they can be mixed, there's overlap" etc).

There's two type of player which can be categorized by their in-game function:

1) PvP oriented

2) Non PvP oriented

And that's it. Sometime a player is one, sometimes he's the other, and both have a function and a different way of having fun.

The only thing right with your post is the recognition of the fact that, right now, the game is unbalanced toward PvP player, which suggests different type of solution, of which you only choose one, which is punish PvPer.

But considering that one player can be a PvPer sometimes, and a non PvPer some other times, the only thing you end up doing is punishing everyone and, since your desire is to decrease PvP, you have to compensate for the removal of that massive gameplay feature with a bunch of other stuff which are completely foreign to the game. PvP gets replaced by a skill system and an event system.

This is now a completely different game than the one that got so massively successfull.

(By the way all of your solution will eventually backfire: a skill system will only increase the difference between experienced player and noob, scarcer ammos and guns means more incentive to shoot the guy with even little gears, events will become mass firing zone and all of this still leads to PvP as the end game.)

Edited August 17, 2012 by TheCoconutChef

[Rallige 74]

Good and reasoned answer, TheCoconutChef, we need more of these. But I'm afraid you missed some points of my thread:

1) Player categories. Those categories you mentioned are perfectly fine, but PLAYER himself finds out about those only AFTER getting into dayz. I was categorizing players by what they expect BEFORE getting into dayz, just by watching trailer/reading descripton.

2) I don't want to punish PvP players. They still can PvP just fine, coz mechanics aren't changed at all. It's just circumstances of PvP I believe must be changed, like less ammo/firearms + implementing skills system to BALANCE system, not destroy it. Coz right now what average Johnny finds is AK + 90 rounds within 20 minutes of gameplay, and can operate his gun perfectly. Of course he will PvP. Saying he won't Is like lighting up gunpowder and saying it wont blow up

[TheCoconutChef 9]

2) I don't want to punish PvP players. They still can PvP just fine, coz mechanics aren't changed at all. It's just circumstances of PvP I believe must be changed, like less ammo/firearms + implementing skills system to BALANCE system, not destroy it. Coz right now what average Johnny finds is AK + 90 rounds within 20 minutes of gameplay, and can operate his gun perfectly. Of course he will PvP. Saying he won't Is like lighting up gunpowder and saying it wont blow up

I'm certain your intent is not to punish them, but the suggestions are punitive none the less.

They are all disincentive as opposed to incentive. There is less ammo, gun fight are more difficult, firing your gun is more dangerous etc. All of those things are designed to curtail or prevent a certain behavior, which is the definition of a disincentive.

Coz right now what average Johnny finds is AK + 90 rounds within 20 minutes of gameplay, and can operate his gun perfectly. Of course he will PvP.

I know I don't. PvP ain't my style (I got shot at a gaz station with my FN trying to be friendly to two guy even thought I had a perfectly clear shot and they didn't know I was there).

The problem isn't that ammos and guns are "plentiful", since this is a necessary condition for PvP but not a sufficient one. In short, no guns means no PvP, but guns don't necessarly mean PvP.

It's a risk-reward problem, an incentive problem.

As correctly pointed out, one of those is that "all road leads to PvP", which is not so much a problem of Guns as it is a problem of Goals. The second problem is that Cooperation is almost actively disincentivized because of the way the game is set up, which leaves only PvP as default. There's a vicious circle at play, and you can see the first link of my sign (Lemon Market) if you want to know what I think it is.

I will say however that I'm in favor of "events". But, more importantly, I'm in favor of Goals. There's lots of space for creativity there.

[Rallige 74]

I see your point.

What I understood quite clearly with this thread (especially thx to last couple posts/pages) is that I want a little bit different game than most ppl here. That's fine per se.

What makes me lose shit every time is the fact that I was looking for challenging zombie mmo surviving game for like decade, and now that I found something like that only to see how it turns into PvP 24/7 mess with no alternative at the horison makes my butt burn. What pisses me off even more is how ppl are protecting current game's state with all means possible, and even going further towards it (finding, installing and using hacks).

While I understand that this is an alpha, it's interesting how most ppl overuse this fact to make their points. "THIS IS ALPHA, EAT SHIT" - an average answer from average Rocket Defense Force (or whatever) community member. Now with standalone announced, they have another answer at their disposal : "ROCKET IS WORKING ON STANDALONE NOW, EAT SHIT". It kinda reminds me the way over-religious people and president election candidate fans act.

All in all, it's fine if some people find current mod's state fine, enjoyable, challenging and so on. I just wrote this thread to protect my point of view of how this game SHOULD be, trying to be as nice to everyone as possible. I have right to do so, just like other ppl do. First few obviously trolling posts and other inadequate/immature members are not what dayz deserves.

Man, when will I get a game that I want? WarZ started smelling funny last couple of days. That question is all I do care about, honestly. And, how other responds showed, I'm not alone.

I'm certain your intent is not to punish them, but the suggestions are punitive none the less.

They are all disincentive as opposed to incentive. There is less ammo, gun fight are more difficult, firing your gun is more dangerous etc. All of those things are designed to curtail or prevent a certain behavior, which is the definition of a disincentive.

I'll let myself disagree here slightly. Those things are not designed to PREVENT PvP, those are designed to make players think twice before starting a fight and keep in mind retreating option and make it more attractive. What we see now are players, spraying and praying their guns, coz they have 2 more full magz in their inventories after 20 min of looting. And they will probably have another 2 magz in next 20 minutes of looting.

Even if you are not hardcore PvP players, spending extra ammo is almost always the smartest thing to do, coz whatever is left on the loot spawn point can potentially be used against you. Quite obviously it's more fun to spend it on other players rather than shooting all rounds in the air on full auto.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Rallige