DayZ Massive overhaul

[Rallige 74]

Hello everyone,

After playing DayZ for a couple of months, I would like to share suggestions I accumulated as well as my thoughts on what’s going on right now and overall community spirits and enthusiasm downfall. One thing to clarify from the beginning – I was encouraged to write this mostly by standalone DayZ project announcing, and I totally don’t rush/expect my suggestions will make it into current mod any time soon. Just knowing that this has been read and taking into consideration while working on standalone by someone from dev team would make me happy. I will post this both on suggestion and general discussion forums, because this thread will have both suggestions and discussible objects in it). So, let us begin.

I’m expecting this to be quite a wall of text, so in order to keep my thoughts/ideas logically connected, I find it necessary to take a look in 2 major questions:

1) What kind of gamers does DayZ attract? As for myself, I put game audience in these major categories:

I) Zombie fans – expect zombies to be main feature of this mod and, while downloading it, prepare themselves for thrilling survival in cities and wilderness, infested with undead. Just like in the movies. IMO, forms biggest part of newcomers and community.

II) Sandbox game fans – people with rich imagination, expecting to create their own stories using whatever game has to offer. Mostly oriented towards PvE gameplay.

III) Challenge fans – people sick of modern game industry, yearly producing games with health regeneration and HUD, warning about all possible threats. Expect hard, exhausting gameplay with little to no mercy to mistakes. ( I put all vanilla ARMA/ OFP fans here too, lol)

IV) Survival game fans – those who enjoy scrapping the bottom of a barrel and who get adrenaline rush just from counting humble resources left. ( I put here those who love any postapocalyptic setting (not certainly zombie – related) too)

NB! I didn’t sort players by game genre, coz ARMA 2 is an action game, and, obviously, its mod will attract action game fans mostly.

NB! Please don’t forget that mixed categories are also possible (and, as I see it, form nucleus of DayZ community), and are kept in mind. Zombie fans, looking for challenge, you are not forgotten!

Before I continue, that me and rest of our 5-men group fit mixed category of I), II) and IV) with different points of view about challenge. Please keep that in mind as it explains that personal emotion I might put in this text.

Now let us continue to second major question:

2) What kind of gamers might get frustrated by DayZ and why? While there are godzillions rage threads all over the forums, I didn’t see much effort to investigate rage reasons and run analysis. So this thread is also written in memory and help of those, who got eaten by hungry trollsZ. So, :

I) Zombie fans – because this mod is not about zombies. It may have letter Z in its name, but it doesn’t mean much, coz, sadly, current zombies are more of an annoying obstacle, than key feature. Open “What is DayZ?” tab from front page of DayZ website and you will see, that zombies are mentioned before other features, what automatically places them into core of this mod in eyes of newcomer. And now listen to an average skype/ teamspeak dialogue I have with my group:

Friend: Oh man, did you see that video on youtube (blablabla)

Me: Yeah, it’s… Crap, gimme a moment, I got a zed after me - (blam) – you were saying?

And I’m pretty sure our group is not the only one who has talks like that. Our group are hardcore zombie fans, jumping into DayZ from other zombie games (even after owning Zombie Panic: Source server) for some better zed experience, and all we currently have are weak NPC’s, guarding a can of beans.

While it’s true that “The greatest threat comes from the breakdown of society and from other people, not zombies – Rocket”, It doesn’t have to mean that zombies should be as laughable as they are now and that threat they pose should come from their bugs, not mechanics. And while bugs are actively fixed and zed overall polished (which is, no doubt, great), I still wasn’t able to find any new mechanics announced.

II) Sandbox game fans – because this sandbox currently has little sand to play with. Over time you will inevitably find out, that it’s much easier and enjoyable to ruin sand castles of other players – because after building a dozen yourself, you will find out that there is nothing left to do, but PvP. Doesn’t matter, how long your road to understanding be – once you start playing DayZ, you’re already a bandit.

Beach - > Makarov -> PvP

Beach -> Weapon and tools -> Tent camp -> More weapons and tools -> Vehicles -> Helicopters -> PvP

Doesn’t matter which road will you take – it’s always PvP at the end.

*Why do you need weapons? – to PvP

*Why do you need map and compass? – to get to better looting places at North – What for? – to PvP

*Why do you need tent camp? – to stock my gear and supplies – What for? – for PvP/in case of death in PvP

*Why do you need vehicles/ helicopters? – see “*” number 1 or 2

As long as there is not much to do, this group of gamers cannot be satisfied and will rage/quit quietly.

III) Challenge fans – because, to be honest, this game isn’t really challenging. Let’s look into main aspects of this mod:

* Survival – the only challenge here is finding matches, hatchet, hunting knife and canteen. In theory, after that, you can survive for infinite amount of time, considering you keep out from main player/zombie populated areas. But this is, ofc, incredibly boring.

* Gathering loot – has barely any challenge in it, after you figure out how zombie agro mechanics work and get basic idea about residential/industrial/farm/military grade loot spots. Not only gathering process itself is easy – amount of loot is enormous. Literally after looting only one store you can get enough supplies/weapons to cross entire map on foot.

* PvE – incredibly easy if you get any weapon (well, crowbar and crossbow can be tricky) and have basic idea about zombie patterns indoor/outdoor.

* PvP – is a two-sided blade. Look at it like “Hah, I can 1 shot kill/knock out with most of weapons” – and it seems easy. Think of it as “OMG, I can be killed by 1 bullet” – and it seems very hard. IMO, only balanced thing in DayZ.

All in all, after a couple of days in-game, only aspect that is still challenging is PvP.

IV) Survival game fans – just look at “*” 1 and 2 for previous gamer category to find out, why these ppl might get pissed off pretty quickly.

So, after we classified most often rage problems, let’s look into mentioned (and not mentioned) problems closely.

1) HACKING.

Not much I can say or suggest on this one other than notice the tremendous hacking issues count increase through last couple of days. Before last update only hacking/exploit issues I experienced were invisible players, who didn’t install beta patches correctly or didn’t update those accordingly. Through past few days I witnessed totally ruined villages/town parts, fought and retreated from hacked vehicles, ambushed ppl with hacked equipment at their camps, etc, etc. + saw youtube vids of parachute cow attacks and artillery strike on Stary Sobor. Needless to say I (and, obviously, whole community) would like to see this solved, coz it’s getting quite ridiculous in a game, that can be rage-indulcing itself.

2) ENORMOUS PvP.

Is it an issue at all? I think it is a MAJOR issue, even though Rocket doesn’t seem to care much. Of course, PvP is a massive part of gameplay, and its mechanics should stay as untouched as possible, but current scale is just a joke. Personally, I feel strange about Rockets posts about DayZ being “social experiment” and offering COMMUNITY to do something about it ( “This IS stupid. So do something about it. Posting "aw everyone kills everyone" on the forums is what people have been doing for ages. Has it worked? NO. So try something else.” – Rocket). I’m sorry, but we are not developers and don’t have the tools to change it. Let’s take a look into gamer categories, who get attracted by DayZ. I felt right not to include “Brainless PvP Deathmatch fans” category, because, seriously, you don’t get into something that claims to be Zombie Survival Simulator just to KoS any player you meet, and actually look forward to this. You have vanilla ArmA 2 for that. You don’t even need to loot your weapons there. Personally, I didn’t buy ArmA2 for DayZ and had it ages ago, but some ppl ( let’s face the truth - majority of mod population did), and I don’t think it’s a right thing to roflstomp on their expectations and troll their posts. If there’s so much rage posts it doesn’t mean community is sick and whiny. It only means that more and more people are getting disappointed in DayZ, coz it doesn’t meet their expectations. I believe that discovering that DayZ is about PvP 24/7 rather than zombie survival horror feels like biting into chocolate covered piece of shit ( AVGN ). If you, Rocket, find current situation OK, then please change description/advertisement to show the new truth about DayZ. So that people don’t get tricked into it. It could save their time and your precious forum space.

Even if we, as you suggest, “organize” and clear all of Chernogorsks snipers (which, btw, we with my group have already done so many times) and crazy murderers, we WILL get shot after we get down from our positions to meet grateful crowd. Just because people got used to current state of things and don’t expect anything good from people with weapons (they probably shouldn’t, but right now it’s CERTAIN death). And even if we don’t get down we still can get killed by people spawning behind us. So right now there is no sense in solving PvP problem by the means of PvP. It’s a chain reaction that can be broken only by changing PvP circumstances and, well, philosophy, while preserving its mechanics. How?

Let’s take a look into current PvP under microscope:

Why do people sooner or later get into PvP?

I) BECAUSE IT’S SO EASY TO TAKE LIFE.

Why? Because firearms and ammunition are plentiful, they are deadly, there is no danger firing them and all of them can be easily operated. Before I start, let’s remember one simple truth – in zombie apocalypse your gun is used to get you out of trouble, not into it. What could be done about it?

* On quantity of weapons and ammo – I think everyone would agree that currently Chernarus is actually a barrel of gunpowder, oversaturated with firearms, especially high-tier military grade equipment. And average survivor looks like this (notice the watches lol) :

If we hope to see current PvP madness gone, it has to be changed. It might be unpopular decision, but spawn rates for ammo and firearms must be decreased, while new melee and improvised ( smth like crossbow) weapons are introduced. Some loot position rebalancing would be great (make it so spawned loot fits the location – eg. Deer Stands : who the hell hunts deer with AK, UZI, M4 and frag grenades? Make them spawn civil weapons instead, as well as some of tools like matches and knives)

For both military and civil firearms – ammo/clip interaction would be nice to have implemented, also seeing random ammo amount in freshly spawned clips would be good ( right now it’s always full clips, unless somebody dropped some used – makes little sense to me, as I look into those like somebody was defending using them, and failed horribly, rather than like they were shipped directly from factory). Would require correct ammo tracking system, which, AFAIK, is being worked on (and it’s great).

Military grade firearms, IMO, should be treated a little different than civil. I strongly believe that these weapons should be spread out more randomly through “events” like crashed helicopter sites. Obviously, crashed helicopters might be quite rare to find (and considering what I’m about to suggest they should become even more rare), so I suggest implementing new types of “random loot spawns” like Destroyed military column (would appear randomly on roads of Chernarus and consist of destroyed military vehicles and dead soldiers, scattered around. Would encourage travelling more and give not off-road vehicles a meaning), Abandoned military camps ( 2-3-4 military tents, ruined vehicles and dead soldiers, placed in the woods mostly ), Overrun firing position ( some dead bodies, maybe ruined APC, should appear in cities randomly and be the only military objects in them, make fire stations become industrial/residential buildings, as they should be).

By doing this, you will solve “I go – I win” problem, and, as a sideway bonus, reduce sniping problem sharpness (with no fixed high-end loot spawn positions camping would be pointless, forcing snipers to move around, as well as their prey). Military buildings could keep spawning military loot, but % should make adventuring a viable (if not more attractive) choice as well.

About demands of cutting out some weapons (like .50 Cal and rocket launchers) – they might be useful and fit into DayZ, as you will read soon enough.

*On firearms being deadly – not much to add here. It’s ArmA, after all. No changes needed, IMO. Just one thing has to be mentioned – re-logging and spawning behind the opponent’s back. Like other people have suggested numerous times, 1 character per server would totally fix this madness.

*On consequences of firing a gun – while scarce ammo might make most players think twice before firing a gun already, I find that it would be not enough. Of course I’m talking about zombie agro mechanics, but it is being worked on just as I type, and it’s really good to hear that. My suggestions:

- Larger hearing radius : speaks for itself. Fire a gun only for a good reason, not for fun.

- Zombies don’t lock on you aggroed, but slowly bunch up and investigate the sound source, just like they do with tincans; aggro only after visual confirmation of player

- Make more zombies spawn. If server can’t handle much zombies at once, make zed spawn and proceed towards gunman from next block after shots were fired (so that zombies don’t spawn on top of player). Might screw other players, who didn’t shoot, but that’s how it should work, IMO. Dead Frontier has this feature, and it feels legit, even when zombies re-aggro on you on their way to gunman. Needs to be discussed.

- Dynamic zombie agro : right now zombies get stuck after arriving at point of their interest, without re-aggroing on players just in front of them. Also zombies could re-aggro on other players, if they see them before gunman.

- Fixing zombies disappearing after re-logging + 1 character per server rule could keep players from buggy escape. Logging off would only help if you stop playing that character for some amount of time, needed for those zombies to disappear/reaggro.

* On operating guns : please see next part.

II) BECAUSE IT’S SO UNPUNISHING TO LOSE LIFE.

Why? Because all you lose is your gear. While new players might feel really bad about losing ALICE pack and Winchester and fear it, experienced players, with camp set up and vehicles parked laugh at this. Because:

1) They can re-loot most of gear in 1 – 2 hours

2) They can get picked up by their buddies on vehicle and re-equip in a camp in 10 – 15 minutes

3) They can keep respawning until close to their corpse and try looting it (will get fixed soon)

Things I’m about to suggest might make you spit right in my face/forum avatar, but I believe they must be implemented one way or another. Skills. Now let me explain what I mean. Rocket has some deep words posted on these forums : “YOUR CHARACTER SHOULD REFLECT YOU”. I would like to take understanding of this to a next level. While I don’t know if Rocket really meant it, I think that this reflection of yourself can be something more than answer to questions “would I shoot on sight or not” or “would I share a can of beans with a stranger”. I would like to reflect myself as much as I can, and bring my RL skills into DayZ to find out how would I do through a zombie apocalypse and society breakdown. IMO, it can be done by:

* Implementation of slowly developing skills – as I see it, you don’t get any skill panels like in classic RPGs. You just… become better at what you do throughout day. Without even knowing you “current skill level”.

To explain this let’s get back to operating guns. I myself have almost never fired a serious gun (had some fun with hunting rifle a long time ago), and didn’t even see many IRL. Pistols I usually see are holstered and policemen waist. All in all, I think it should be possible to reflect it in DayZ by:

1) Gun is shaking in inexperienced arms ( smth like shock, but a little less ).

2) Gun is reloading longer in inexperienced arms.

3) Rate of fire is slower in inexperienced arms (especially if weapon is bolt action rifle).

4) You can’t keep your breath for as long as experienced shooter can.

5) It takes longer to steady your gun and recoil is harder in inexperienced arms.

Now what happens at the end of the day. Depending on how much you used your gun, some (or all) of those negative effects are softer on survival day 2. And it only gets better and better if you have enough practice/ survive for long enough. Which you probably won’t get much considering ammo rarity.

Not sure if “getting better” should affect only specific gun you were using or whole gun class (pistols/ shotguns/ rifles, etc). I heard that guns, belonging to the same class can be quite different to feel and handle. Needs more discussion. Especially about operating heavy weapons like AS50 and rocket launcher. I’m sure as hell I’d never come close to rocket launcher IRL without any training at all, and would totally kill myself with a recoil of .50 cal .

Skills I described could affect not guns only : there currently are quite some other activities, that usually take practice in order to be effective at them :

- Sprinting and running: Implemented stamina and endurance (which lvls from day to day) would give meaning to sitting animation, which currently is only used to take nifty screenshots on top of victims/around campfire. Backpack/inventory weight implementation and affection would be nice.

- Medicine : Bandaging could take longer, bloodbag restore less blood (some of it is spilled due to inexperienced medic being clumsy while preparing a transfusion system – I know it from my own experience). You could even need more than one bandage to completely stop bleeding, if you’re new to bandaging wounds.

- Cooking : You might burn some meat if you’re new to it

- Gutting animals : might miss/spoil some parts of meat.

- Repairing a car and driving it : slower repairing and less soft driving if inexperienced.

- Something else I forgot to mention.

* Implementation of pre-set biography – now after I explained my point of view on skills, let’s think about a way we can bring skills that we actually have IRL into DayZ. I could only think of 2 ways:

- Let players choose their specialization themselves, allowing to create custom characters (feels too gamey to me)

- Let us choose from a list of occupations (after we choose sex). It should be pretty obvious that police officer would be better with guns, while medic – with meds, etc. To make people rely on each other, there should be a set of actions, open only to “professionals” : complex medical treatment (see below), operating heavy weapons, flying a chopper, etc.

Well now, with some sort of REAL (not just finding basic gear) progress, I believe most people would think twice before starting a gunfight. Because now you actually have a life to lose, not just set of equipment.

III) BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE

While there are plenty activities that might take hours and hours to complete/achieve, currently you will sooner or later end up going PvP. While suggestions under I) and II) would make mindless PvP less likely, we still need something for those, who don’t enjoy killing other players very much, but have to do it because everything else is boring.

We need some kind of goal. Shhhh, I’m not talking about quests and missions – this is a sandbox game, and you create and complete your own quests/missions/goals. What I meant was adding set of… well, circumstances, which would impact sandbox gameplay on a server. I’m talking about Cycles.

What is a Cycle? It’s an amount of time (different, has to be discussed), during which whole server experiences some kind of Event. Let’s see some examples:

EVENT – Military raid

TIME – 3 days

DESCRIPTION : during 3 days military units are roaming Chernarus, completing unknown mission, during which they shoot zombies and survivors alike. Can be combated and looted (probably only way to acquire full, unused clips) . Heavy weapons (AS50, rocket launcher) actually have another meaning – fighting possible APC’s and helicopters.

Just imagine yourself in a store in Chernogorsk, minding your own business, when suddenly you hear working engine, turn your head and see an APC and 4- 6 soldiers, entering the city. I think it would be thrilling.

EVENT – Cold season

TIME – 7 days

DESCRIPTION : for a week, it’s colder than usual, resulting in more infections. Keep in mind Zombie buff, firearms rebalanced and life experience thingy. Now try finding words to explain your infected mate, why you don’t wanna go to the hospital and try getting meds for him.

EVENT – Hungry Times

TIME – 7 days

DESCRIPTION : for a week, all food loot spawns are 1/2; or even 1/3 of normal, animals are much more rare. Hold on you beans, bro. That’s the most beautiful word now.

EVENT – Zombie Infestation

TIME – 3 days

Description – Zombie count is doubled (tripled?) in cities; they can form packs and roam wilderness at random paths.

And so on. As you can see, those really aren’t so hated on these forums “missions” and “quests”, just set of slightly different rules, changing over time. You still make your own decisions and craft your owns story. Just little something to keep you on your toes and prepare for. I would really like to hear your scenarios/events, and play them at least in my head.

I would suggest some more things in this part of post, but Rocket pretty much covered everything, announcing that base building might be possible in standalone, as much as other activities.

Well, If I), II) and III) get implemented at some point, I believe that PvP scale will be much more reasonable than now. Now those, who PvP because they don’t care do die will have their lives to care about, those, who PvP, because they have nothing more to do will have something to stay occupied, and those who want just grief will still be able to do that, but now it won’t be stupidly easy.

It’s funny, but it turned out that while I was explaining my point of view about how enormous PvP issue could be solved, I actually managed to tell almost everything I wanted about other major rage problems:

3) ZOMBIES NOT POSING REAL THREAT

Just look into “*consequences of firing a gun” part to see my point of view on solving this. In addition, I would only to answer one single question – what makes zombie (undead ones) theme so different in whole horror sector of movies/videogames? Possible answers:

* The fact them being dead bodies is horrifying itself. The way they move, sound, act gives me creeps – imported into a videogame by idle animations/textures/ models/sounds. All those could use more work in DayZ, and, afaik, are being worked on pretty much right now. Good to know. I just would like to see “gorier” textures – blue faces with bruises remind me more of a bums and alcoholics I deal in hospital with, than zombies.

* The way they deal with survivors, all that gore of being eaten alive – imported into a videogame by attack/aggro animations/sounds. These could use more work too; it would be really cool to have a separate gore model/texture for survivors, eaten by zombies, rather than they share the same one with those who got shot. Seems logical to me.

If fixing aggro mechanics won’t make zombies much more deadly (even though I believe it would), and raising their quantity is not an option due to server lag, than at least buff their HP ( like somebody from the forums suggested recently). If animations are more smooth, then we could think about good old “damage the brain” rule (not gonna happen, most probably)

4) NOT MUCH TO DO OTHER THAN PvP

Just look into III) part of PvP text to find out how I see the solution and wait for Rocket to implement what he has planned.

5) BUGS

Might be the only part when I totally share opinion of forum’s majority – it’s an ALPHA, those things are annoying, but are constantly reported and eventually get fixed (sometimes introducing new bugs, but oh well). I just hope that by my wall of text I contributed something that can be used for everyone’s good.

Last, but not least – I searched the forums for some suggestions\thoughts I posted here, and, of course, found some of those. What I was surprised about, is how fresh most of those posts are. Here, have a look yourself :

Argus - skills - http://dayzmod.com/f...age__hl__skills

smokeshadows - skills and prior occupation - http://dayzmod.com/f...dea/#entry91653

SolarClipz – not a zombie game - http://dayzmod.com/f..._20#entry443029

mora4al - classes and profession - http://dayzmod.com/f..._hl__profession

Hulahuga – guns and ammo rebalanced - http://dayzmod.com/f...ommon-than-aks/

This can only mean that people are understanding current situation, hate it and are trying to generate some kind of solution.

What I also tried to achieve, is not only posting a bunch of suggestions, but also try to explain/imagine how they would work together, in case of implementation. I hope I succeeded on that one.

P.S

I have been writing this for 2 days (with breaks / DayZ playing sessions of course, lol), and English is not my first language, so I apologize for possible mistakes.

Thank you for your attention. May the beans be with you. Always.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Rallige

[Katana67 2907]

Summary section would be helpful.

[FaceEmbrace 0]

I like the colors

[shadow_moses 50]

Wow!

[PaulPC 6]

PVP makes this game, gtfo if you disagree.

[chaossound 101]

Too much reading and I don't have enough fucks to give to read it all. Looks like a well structured idea and im sure rocket will read it all and get some ideas from it. I like the idea of the Events. I think some NPC military compounds/raids would be a great endgame idea to get people to work in teams.

[NightRipper 284]

You get my beans. Hopefully Rocket sees this.

/Salute.

[drseptapus 49]

PVP makes this game, gtfo if you disagree.

Currently it is the only thing left to do for many people, that does not mean it makes the game. Hopefully as the game grows out of alpha, there will be alternatives.

[DryGulch 32]

Most of us who love to PVP are more than excited for more additions to the game and more content in the thrive /survive vein. But, we recognise that we are still at trial and error phase. So, we go about our business, we bug report, we try the new patches, we shoot people , we die and we start again.

The tears and rage is coming from people who have not figured out that they are not playing a full game yet. Or, worse, the ones that have not had previous exposure to a sandbox with permadeath. Some of those guys are taking to it like a duck to water but some are just losing their shit.

Edited July 26, 2012 by DryGulch

[diskun 0]

A thousand bean cans to you, bro.

Seriously, I'm in awe here. Beautifully reasoned, explained post.I agree on every point except the "one character per server" thing. If your server is shut down for whatever reason or gets a corrupted database, you lose everything, which in the state of game you (and I) bid for, is too much a loss.

What I loved most is the events thing. Soldier raids, seasons and the like. Amazing stuff. True PvE.

[Rallige 74]

If your server is shut down for whatever reason or gets a corrupted database, you lose everything, which in the state of game you (and I) bid for, is too much a loss.

Didn't think about that, honestly. Probably coz never happened to me. Good point though.

But I'm sure as hell would rather prefer losing progress rather than keeping getting killed by people spawned behind me (which happened a lot). Just the matter of taste, I think.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Great post, and I agree on most of it (except maybe the shooting skills, seeing i personally had to 'train' some days to get used to the arma engine, so i think shooting already has a learning curve, though some features may be applicable), if you'd like i would invite you to read my 'learning by doing' thread that is in the post linked in my Signature. (feel free to read all suggestions as they are all meant to make DayZ a bit harder, so that overall it becomes a lot harder and more interesting) .... But as you said, i think Character Progression is an area in which DayZ currently lacks a whole lot of content, and the learning by doing method is (in my views) one of the viable ways to achieve this. Some more ways are in my sig-post, like toolbelt packs, spawning without a backpack changing pack spawns (as well as adding broken packs), adding clothing of all sorts, and maintenance/durability to items...

Another part is indeed the 'end-game' and while underground bases may sound cool to some, i recently seen a post that talks about all possibilities of repairing the excisting infrastructure, that 'to me' sounds way more interesting than building a hole in the ground... and where Rocket talks about capital ships he seems to forget all the things needed to actually build those capital ships in eve, there is no way you start building them on day one, and to build one you likely need a shit ton of time/money or a very large clan all doing their part to make the ship a possibility. Just introducing underground basis doesn't automatically fill the world with the richness that Eve has ... so i hope Rocket soon rubs the sand out of his eyes and ears, obtained by digging in his backyard building his underground base, and sees that to make underground base building have the function it has in Eve he will need to implement a large roadgrid to get there. Restoring civilization in some parts of the map (by players choice) would be a good start...

Edited July 26, 2012 by L0GIN

[duddbudda 33]

hates how players' tool themselves up for PvP

wants to implement tooled up soldiers who kill players

why, why is it everyone wants to put dumbfuck NPCs in my game? why can't the idiots be actual numbnuts for once?

[duddbudda 33]

oh ffs

why bother typing all that up

when you can't be arsed to get informed on your subject?

PvP madness

see sig or do the math for yourself at dayzmod.com

Edited July 26, 2012 by Sandy

[Dempsey (DayZ) 4]

I well thought out and structured post! I agree after a while survival becomes a lot less changeling and out of boredom pvp becomes a lot more appealing.

However after months of playing Dayz, the possibility of PVP (being shot) is the only aspect of the game that has remained scary, keeping me on the edge of my seat...

I like the suggestion of events.. However they would need to be fun,challenging and other reward, otherwise people will avoid logging in during them.

[Rallige 74]

I like the suggestion of events.. However they would need to be fun,challenging and other reward, otherwise people will avoid logging in during them.

If "1 char per server" feature gets implemented, they will have little choice.

L0GIN: I remember reading it soon after you posted it. Very well done! But, it seems that all we can do is hoping that whatever engine they are going to use for DayZ evolution, it will be able to do it.

[spammy@live.de 19]

Excellent!

[mrducky (DayZ) 33]

Well that was a long post, but makes sense.

I agree, on general level at least (and no point in nitpicking about a few details). Have some beans.

[Rallige 74]

hates how players' tool themselves up for PvP

wants to implement tooled up soldiers who kill players

why, why is it everyone wants to put dumbfuck NPCs in my game? why can't the idiots be actual numbnuts for once?

I don't hate how players are preparing solely to PvP. I'm not against those, who will dedicate themselves to PvP even if all I (and other players) suggested will get implemented at some point. Chernarus could use some of those "maniacs" in its ecosystem, and I suppose that in case of real zombie (or any) apocalypse there would be people like that, freed from oppression by law.

I just disagree with how easy it is now to tool up for killing. You see, I live in post-soviet country myself, and we don't have AK's stocked in fire stations or .45 ACP gun under our pillows. And, I'm sure, most countries/states have the similar situation.

And what we have in DayZ? AK in 15 minutes with 3 mags? If you missed the picture in my post, here's a gif about average survivor in DayZ after him finding a gun :

no point in nitpicking about a few details).

No, there is a huge point in that. As we can see, people can get strange understanding of a post if only detail they managed to keep in their heads are words "PvP madness" and "NPC".

One last thing: everyone, this thread is supposed to be read fully. Reading about one - two things only will most probably lead to flame wars, as I tried to keep thoughts and suggestions as connected as possible, and without seeing the whole thing you might get wrong impression about whole thing.

Some people, obviously, judge from paragraph size, see that PvP one is the biggest, and instantly conclude that it's an anti - PvP post. Well, you, gents, missed one line : "It’s funny, but it turned out that while I was explaining my point of view about how enormous PvP issue could be solved, I actually managed to tell almost everything I wanted about other major rage problems". Meaning that, in my eyes, PvP is a lot deeper than "Pewpew I kill I die I cry" like it's shown in most other PvP - related threads, and is knitted with other features/possible implementations. In order to suggest almost ANYTHING, we should look back to PvP and check out, how it would impact it. Which I tried to do.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Rallige

[BlineQ 0]

I like the idea of events, would be nice to have to adapt to your environment again and again, while your needs and problems are changing constantly.

[duddbudda 33]

people can get strange understanding of a post if only detail they managed to keep in their heads are words "PvP madness" and "NPC"

sorry bud, I read the whole post, kept everything you said in my head, and when I'd finished I thought about how to respond

first off I posted my generic response to anyone suggesting NPC military, it's generic because you suggest it five times a day and it's still a turrible idea

then I thought about how to deal with your other points, most of which grow from your disdain for PvP

I went back through your waffle and hit on that phrase: it sums up your assessment of the state of the game, it is provably wrong, and accepting it forms the basis for all your arguments

so I picked it out and cut it down

your only response is to say 'hurr durr I was never really against PvP', despite the majority of your post being about expunging PvP from players' minds

To be clear, I'm not against a number of your suggestions per se, I just disagree with the foundations of your argument

Edited July 27, 2012 by Sandy

[Cinc 3]

I agree with everytihng you said, just not the skills thing. Let me explain.

Rocket has said that "if your skilled in real life, your character should be skilled to" not exact quote, but close enough. A suggestion i found along these lines is wind. In real life, if you shoot a bullet out of a sniper rifle, wind and plenty of other things mess up your aim. Its not as simple as get the crosshair on the guy. Some more ideas along this line is, rather then a % chance of burning meat, if you insert correct ingredients into a pot over a fire at the correct time, that food gives a buff in some way because it well made, perhaps more blood?

Also, in a video interview, not sure which one, rocket has said that he thinks the solution to the bandit problem is to add more end-game features, but that there working on fixing up bugs and exploits currently and will get to bigger projects later, like adding in end game objectives.

[Vertisce 158]

Jesus fucking Christ! That is one massive wall of text!

But the most shocking thing I see there is the fact that you added one picture and the only thing you could find was a nude fat guy holding an AK with a watch on his wrist? What is wrong with you?

[BlineQ 0]

*On consequences of firing a gun – while scarce ammo might make most players think twice before firing a gun already, I find that it would be not enough. Of course I’m talking about zombie agro mechanics, but it is being worked on just as I type, and it’s really good to hear that. My suggestions:

- Larger hearing radius : speaks for itself. Fire a gun only for a good reason, not for fun.

- Zombies don’t lock on you aggroed, but slowly bunch up and investigate the sound source, just like they do with tincans; aggro only after visual confirmation of player

- Make more zombies spawn. If server can’t handle much zombies at once, make zed spawn and proceed towards gunman from next block after shots were fired (so that zombies don’t spawn on top of player). Might screw other players, who didn’t shoot, but that’s how it should work, IMO. Dead Frontier has this feature, and it feels legit, even when zombies re-aggro on you on their way to gunman. Needs to be discussed.

Let the discussing begin!

I totally share your opinion about the zombies and their hearing/count. But it would be even better if they would be slower than now - I don´t know your image of a zombie, but i would rather say they hobble around instead of running madly. OK, with the current amount of zombies they should really run like this, or they would be a even lesser danger, but if you increase their amount, they could surround you and chase you, until you have no resort. It would also make it more difficult for campers, because they would have to run away after shooting, because there are more zeds than bullets. You simply would have to think thrice before firing in a town, because if you shoot, you will have a big pack of zombies walking straight to your position until something louder excites their attention, or they arrive and catch you / chase your ass while you have to run away and get away from them. I already read some suggestions, which would greatly fit this scenario, like deflecting them with meat or make them killable only by headshots, while shooting on other parts of their body would only slow/stun them. This would reduce the shoot on sight - PvP a litte, but don´t make the player dependent to strangers, because even if a group is "stronger" than a single player, its also more difficult for a group to move under those circumstances.

Those changes would also allow to increase the amount of vehicles, because they make noise, and noise will attract the zombies. Also little changes, like "saving" a car, would be nice, so a player, who tries to drive a saved car, will activate the alarm device, which will make noise, and, of course, noise will attract the zombies. Basebuilding, barricading and sneaking,hoarding and protecting ressources will be needed to survive as a group. It would make the player care about noise, attention and avocation all the time.

[hoik 415]

Nice, alot of valid points - I specificly like the perk/skills idea and there are alot of good threads on this. The reason I like this idea is that it gives the players a value that other players can value beyond the loot that they are carrying! Also both like/dislike the 'events'. I like their 'dynamic' nature (they should be quite random) to give PvE a much more serious sence of fear and tention, at the same time I dont like the NPC aspec :( . I would prefer tools that the players could use so THEY can be military bad asses scarring the shit out of players - (I saw a vid of this guy approaching a barn - hears a car, goes prone - then a hummer comes tearing out the woods and cercles behind the barn - no doubt it scared the shit out of him and it also completely f'd his plans as it attracted a huge no. of zombies - this is basicly the scenario you described with the military) I do really like the idea of seasons/random cold/hot spells! Found a thread on seasons here; http://dayzmod.com/f.../45512-seasons/

Edited July 27, 2012 by Hoik