Prediction: Life expectancy to fall sharply in 1.7.2.4 due to extended suicides

[finalstraw 193]

This wouldn't be a problem if everyone were devoted Christians.

Until the devoted (insert other religion) turn up.

BRB going on crusades.

[Zymi 64]

I think we already addressed why we "care" in this thread. The statistics are used to inform design decisions so we all benefit if they accurately represent the game and are not skewed by odd behavior patterns.

But, yes, we need Vipeax or someone from the staff to comment on what the threshhold is for a death to be considered a respawn. I was under the impression it was 2 minutes, not 5 and certainly not 20... but I believe the post I saw that in was lost in the forum hack earlier this summer.

I also know the algorithm for calculating life expectancy has undergone at least 2 major revisions in the past 5 months so my information might be out of date.

Hopefully a bored dev passes through and enlightens us. :P

The mod is too easy as it is. If rocket pays attention to the life expectancy he's inclined to make the game easier. I refuse to believe that the statistic is accurate, there's no way the average life is 49 minutes.

[Mastiff (DayZ) 42]

If people are readily gonna spend more time to "suicide" then to actually run up to their desired location, let them. It's their own time being wasted.

The problem is if you try and spawn in to play with a friend if you run from kamenka to cherno you end up needing food and water so you have to search before you set off and what turns into playing with a friend turns into solo foraging, i think rocket needs to fix it so you can group spawn before he removes respawn, then again rocket has more or less sentenced many players to death by introducing a log out timer whilst zombie can still unfairly bug through walls, teleport and appear tonwear NVG at times.

[DrHellNo 11]

Does it really matter? Like honestly the stats don't matter. People just like playing the game for the experience. Not always wanting to know how long the average life lasts in DayZ.

My thoughts exactly....The life expectancy is cool and all but ultimately it is irrelevant.

[A.Wesker 4]

This wouldn't be a problem if everyone were devoted Christians.

It's a post-apocalyptic world and I'm the only one with the book.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

The mod is too easy as it is. If rocket pays attention to the life expectancy he's inclined to make the game easier.

It's not about making the game easier or harder. There are greater complexities at work than that. I hope we can at least agree that it's helpful to be able to accurately measure the effects that design changes have on the game? Surely you're not going to argue that point...

I refuse to believe that the statistic is accurate, there's no way the average life is 49 minutes.

25,000 new players per day, every day. 5-10 deaths each just trying to learn the controls, another 10 learning zombie aggro, then another 48 hour's worth before they learn not to go near Cherno and Elektro? Then a few when they learn about the NWAF and go there trying to get lucky?

I wouldn't be surprised if there are half-a-million or more deaths every day in the 10-20 minute range and another half-a-million in the 30-50 range.

If you have one 80 hour (4800 minute) survival, it only takes 120 deaths at 10 minutes to drag the average right back to 49 minutes.

So I don't know. You're welcome to your skepticism but I think it's unfounded. The 49 minute stat is not that unreasonable at all.

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

I think we already addressed why we "care" in this thread. The statistics are used to inform design decisions so we all benefit if they accurately represent the game and are not skewed by odd behavior patterns.

But, yes, we need Vipeax or someone from the staff to comment on what the threshhold is for a death to be considered a respawn. I was under the impression it was 2 minutes, not 5 and certainly not 20... but I believe the post I saw that in was lost in the forum hack earlier this summer.

I also know the algorithm for calculating life expectancy has undergone at least 2 major revisions in the past 5 months so my information might be out of date.

Hopefully a bored dev passes through and enlightens us. :P

this one?

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2518-average-life-expectancy-really/#entry25378

[Valec 55]

So, we know the stats on the front page, including life expectancy, are ignoring very short lives in an attempt to filter out the spam respawn behavior that has become so common in the game. (Source).

In 1.7.2.4 the Respawn button will be disabled, which will drastically cut down on this behavior.

However, many players - some by their own admission here on the forums - are going to try and work around this by finding other means to kill themselves. Suicide by zombie, suicide by ladder, suicide by standing on top of the Cherno hospital with a road flare and going AFK for a couple minutes, etc. People are clever and if they want to off themselves they will, even if some end up spending more time in the effort than they would have spent just running to where they wanted to be in the first place.

The problem that arises is that many of these "extended suicides" will cross the thresshhold of what is considered a respawn by the stats algorithm. Instead of respawning instantly, people will take 5+ minutes to kill themselves.

So my prediction is these very short lives are going to pile up and drag the life expectancy down in 1.7.2.4.

I've posted a suggestion related to this: Prevent Spawn Point "Choosing" by Suicide.

Oh my. I thought you were all for this change?

As I thought, you never thought out a single aspect of the change in the previous thread where you also looked stupid. Thanks for providing yet one more reason why this change is fruitless.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Oh my. I thought you were all for this change?

As I thought, you never thought out a single aspect of the change in the previous thread where you also looked stupid. Thanks for providing yet one more reason why this change is fruitless.

I am simply identifying a side effect of the change. I stand by everything I posted in the other thread and am fully in support of disabling the respawn button, especially now that it will be enabled if you fracture your leg! In fact, if you took the time to read my suggestion in the suggestions forum, you would see that I propose further restricting the ability to suicide spawn.

Allowing players to "choose" their spawn position whether through normal means or via suicide has no place in DayZ in my opinion.

Still, thanks for the post and good luck out there! Maybe we will run into each other sometime; I'll be the one who looks stupid so you should have no problem recognizing me.

Edited July 26, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Valec 55]

I am simply identifying a side effect of the change. I stand by everything I posted in the other thread and am fully in support of disabling the respawn button, especially now that it will be enabled if you fracture your leg! In fact, if you took the time to read my suggestion in the suggestions forum, you would see that I propose further restricting the ability to suicide spawn.

Allowing players to "choose" their spawn position whether through normal means or via suicide has no place in DayZ in my opinion.

Still, thanks for the post and good luck out there! Maybe we will run into each other sometime; I'll be the one who looks stupid so you should have no problem recognizing me.

Probably will, since you're a loner and don't actually care about anti-grouping mechanics being implemented because it doesn't affect you. Don't pretend there's any other reason, you just want more opportunities to catch other people alone while trying to reconnect with their group. Allowing players to choose their spawn is exactly what should be implemented. Solves the problem Rocket is having and continues to promote group play. There would have to be obvious conditions to this, such as you certainly cannot spawn somewhere you just died(even if you start with nothing, it'd be bullshit for you to run into the area you died, find a gun, and kill that fellow who just killed you).

Selective spawning does not have to be ridiculous. However telling somebody they have to run from Kamenka to Berezino since they were the only member of their group to die.. you don't find that ridiculous? And enough of this 10-15 minute walk. That is not even remotely close to the time it takes, even if you could bee-line straight to it.

[Swineflew 480]

Clearly this is a lack of the proper feature at this point rather than an issue of catering to anyone. You have those that respawn to simply spawn at a higher loot area, and then there are those who simply want to play with their friends (like myself). Personally, I hope to never be punished for trying to enjoy the experience with my friends.

Clearly spawning randomly is an intended mechanic or it wouldn't have been introduced this way.

I hope you DO get punished for trying to circumvent the spawning mechanic to get favorable spawns.

Changing the game to make it easier for people to meet up with friends IS catering to people who don't want to walk to meet their friends. I'm not sure if you understand what you're even trying to argue.

[perestain 33]

So, after the new patch NOT killing fresh spawns will be the new griefing, preventing them from getting a respawn in a better position. This might be hilarious, people trying to be as annoying as they can to others in hopes of getting shot.

Other than that, the spawns should simply be choosable. Its not helping anyone if people are forced to put a weight on the w key and wait for half an hour everytime they want to play with someone else.

[nufcmickey 32]

Sometimes if it spawns me across the map from my friend, I just head straight in that direction and all I stop to loot is maybee a barn or 2 whats in my path, and maybee a deer hut or 2, and actually enjoy seeing what I can aquire by the time I reach him, Like on this life im on now I got a sniper, an M4 AIM, Revolver and loads of food and drink, He had a map, compass and watch for me.

But then other times when I cba I will no doubt let the zombies have my beans, They can even take the empty can if they wish. Dissabling the respawn button wont make the blind bit of difference

[KWilt 157]

I don't understand why so many people want to be able to choose their spawn.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't take more than an idiot to realize that everybody will want to spawn in Cherno, Electro, or Berezino. Then, when that happens, everybody will just raid the city for supplies. Since everybody's everywhere in the city, nothing will respawn. And suddenly, the city is starved of all its loot.

Granted, it's entirely possible to do that now, but making this suggestion is pretty much screaming for it. Maybe I'm just not seeing something others are. (That isn't 'I'm too lazy to go walk to my group' because that's not a valid excuse. I've had many a times where I've had to walk from the beach to the northern treeline to find my group. Quit your bitching, or have them come to you if you're such a lazy prick.)

[Valec 55]

Clearly spawning randomly is an intended mechanic or it wouldn't have been introduced this way.

I hope you DO get punished for trying to circumvent the spawning mechanic to get favorable spawns.

Changing the game to make it easier for people to meet up with friends IS catering to people who don't want to walk to meet their friends. I'm not sure if you understand what you're even trying to argue.

Is that clear? No, I don't think so. I suspect the main reason for the respawns is the spread the population out on the server. That's what I think. I don't know this because I don't know that Rocket has ever discussed it. I do know why he is removing the respawn button, and it has nothing to do with people trying to reconnect with their friends or getting in the way of that.

Please, don't assume you know the reason for a mechanic that is clearly controversial and will receive alterations of some kind. Maybe in your favor, maybe it will resemble something closer to what I prefer. I don't know. You don't know either.

I don't understand why so many people want to be able to choose their spawn.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't take more than an idiot to realize that everybody will want to spawn in Cherno, Electro, or Berezino. Then, when that happens, everybody will just raid the city for supplies. Since everybody's everywhere in the city, nothing will respawn. And suddenly, the city is starved of all its loot.

Granted, it's entirely possible to do that now, but making this suggestion is pretty much screaming for it. Maybe I'm just not seeing something others are. (That isn't 'I'm too lazy to go walk to my group' because that's not a valid excuse. I've had many a times where I've had to walk from the beach to the northern treeline to find my group. Quit your bitching, or have them come to you if you're such a lazy prick.)

Shut the fuck up.

Herp derp, you're lazy because you can't spend all night reconnecting to your group. 1/10 troll.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Valec

[mattwatson.mail@gmail.com 68]

Clearly spawning randomly is an intended mechanic or it wouldn't have been introduced this way.

I hope you DO get punished for trying to circumvent the spawning mechanic to get favorable spawns.

Changing the game to make it easier for people to meet up with friends IS catering to people who don't want to walk to meet their friends. I'm not sure if you understand what you're even trying to argue.

I'm sorry if I've done anything to offend you... I thoroughly enjoy this mod so far, and my biggest peeve is the time it takes to meet up and play with 2-3 friends when my actual time available to play is limited. I thought I was making a reasonable statement when I said the game lacked a feature to allow friends to play together easily, while considering the fact that many others are abusing the "mechanic". I'm sorry you feel that I should be punished.

All-in-all this has clearly become too personal and no longer relates to the original post so i'll let it end here.

[Valec 55]

I'm sorry if I've done anything to offend you... I thoroughly enjoy this mod so far, and my biggest peeve is the time it takes to meet up and play with 2-3 friends when my actual time available to play is limited. I thought I was making a reasonable statement when I said the game lacked a feature to allow friends to play together easily, while considering the fact that many others are abusing the "mechanic". I'm sorry you feel that I should be punished.

All-in-all this has clearly become too personal and no longer relates to the original post so i'll let it end here.

Nobody in this thread actually cares how it affects other players. They're too busy calling everybody lazy instead of realizing that grouping up can be extremely time consuming. They want it their way for no other reason than to deprive you of this time. It was never a debate and was always intended to be a trolololol as far as I can tell. Once again you have a portion of the population determined to have everybody play the game the same way they do.

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

regarding all this talk of spawning stuff, here have this (second item on the list):

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/977-things-that-need-fixing-pronto/#entry10169

personally, i wouldn't mind testing out a more sadistic spawn system, even if it does make joining up with my friends more difficult.

[KWilt 157]

Shut the fuck up.

Herp derp, you're lazy because you can't spend all night reconnecting to your group. 1/10 troll.

Not a troll, just sick and tired of people complaining that they want the game to be 'easier'.

[Valec 55]

Not a troll, just sick and tired of people complaining that they want the game to be 'easier'.

And i'm tired of people referring to me wanting to be able to play with my friends as 'making the game easier'. Once again you're pushing your own agenda. You play alone so you want everyone else to play the game alone.

[finalstraw 193]

I thought I was making a reasonable statement when I said the game lacked a feature to allow friends to play together easily, while considering the fact that many others are abusing the "mechanic.

Nothing is currently stopping you from playing together. All you need is a map and compass... not even that. Meet your friends at x location, then stick together and give yourself some objectives each night. When you are finished, log off together and repeat.

The only thing stopping you doing this is if you get yourself killed every night... but that's not the game fault is it.

[KWilt 157]

And i'm tired of people referring to me wanting to be able to play with my friends as 'making the game easier'. Once again you're pushing your own agenda. You play alone so you want everyone else to play the game alone.

Oh reeeeally? I play alone, do I? Would you like to tell my group that, or should I just let them know myself, since 'alone' is pretty much defined as 'with four to six players' now.

Either way, it's just the pot calling the kettle black, so we can throw our ideas back and forth, but in the end, the time you're 'wasting' getting to your friends, you could be scaving while they come to you. But hey, you just want instant gratification, so I can't really fight that.

Edited July 26, 2012 by KWilt

[vukster@gmail.com 75]

What should really happen is that once you SPAWN anywhere that is your spawn point for 24 hours, it only shifts by a few 100 meters but is always around the same area. You can suicide yourself ALL you want but you will always respawn in kamenka.

fixed.

[Valec 55]

Oh reeeeally? I play alone, do I? Would you like to tell my group that, or should I just let them know myself, since 'alone' is pretty much defined as 'with four to six players' now.

Either way, it's just the pot calling the kettle black, so we can throw our ideas back and forth, but in the end, the time you're 'wasting' getting to your friends, you could be scaving while they come to you. But hey, you just want instant gratification, so I can't really fight that.

I call bullshit on pretty much everything you've said here. What you've said is entirely inane. If we're on two opposite sides of the coast, you now want me to spend even MORE time scavenging before I meet up with them? This is now a multi-hour process. You're stupid for even thinking like that and it's obvious you do play alone or you'd know better. I stand by my statement. You play alone so everyone else should have to. Real nice.

Like I said before, shut the fuck up. Your horribly biased opinion isn't needed because we've all seen your arguments before. Your 'my way or the highway' attitude on it makes you incapable of having any real discussion on the matter.

Yet again I want to remind you that preventing people from 'selecting' their spawn isn't even why this change is being made, so stop barking up that tree. Not wanting to spend two hours getting to my friends because I died at the NW airfield(which i'm sure that just makes me bad, you've never died there) and they didn't is not wanting 'instant gratification'. But I guess that's how all you ex-call of duty'ers blend in.

[BTT` 15]

It will be interesting to see how the changes effect the stats. I personally don't pay much attention to them. I wouldn't mind a way to find out my personal average life span. Speaking of stats....I don't know if there is information on running speeds anywhere but I did my own little test and it seemed my guy ran 300m/min while standing ( not sprinting just jogging the whole time)....which means he can run 3000m/10min and if you wanna meet up with a friend it would only take 10min if yous were 6000meters apart or closer. That's if you are both adept at playing. To newbie friends...well that might take 10hrs for you to meet up. lol funny how big I thought the map was when I started playing some 350+ hrs ago.