Nights

[GIGABIT 1]

Why are nights dark as FUCK?

I want to point out, that the nights aren't just "dark", they really are dark_as_FUCK™.

Now, I understand that if you don't really have any light source anywhere near IRL, it can get pretty damn dark. BUT NOT DARK_AS_FUCK™.

I mean, the nights in this game are so goddamn dark it isn't really realistic in any way. The only way you could get a night as dark as that, would be if the Moon wasn't up and there would be lots of clouds blocking the whole sky. The nights in ARMA are like everything suddenly stops reflecting light completely. You look at your feet and you see nothing but complete darkness.

It's like the sun is the only natural object in the game that counts as a light source. It seems that the night sky emits absolutely zero light. This is both unrealistic, and incredibly annoying.

I'm personally not familiar with modding, so I don't really know if this is even the place to complain about this, since it seems like a flaw of the game and not this mod but nonetheless, I sincerely hope you guys could do something about it because it's night 50% of the time, which means the game is 50% broken. - In my opinion of course.

Cheers.

PS: I goddamn love this mod. Best zombie apocalypse game I've ever played.

EDIT: PLEASE READ ALL POSTS IN THIS THREAD IF YOU ARE GOING TO POST. TOO MANY PEOPLE POST ABOUT STUFF, THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED. YOU ARE THE RESULT OF 2 MILLION YEARS OF EVOLUTION, ACT LIKE IT.

[uvpurple 0]

my feeling would be that night is dark and pitch dark is the only option for night time because

if there was any light, would you not be able to increase your gamma so you could see?

and if people could do that why have night at all?

[DJKhaled 3]

Actually if there is no moon and no lights around the night is actually that dark

Your eyes adjust a bit though to take in more light

[GIGABIT 1]

my feeling would be that night is dark and pitch dark is the only option for night time because

if there was any light' date=' would you not be able to increase your gamma so you could see?

and if people could do that why have night at all?

[/quote']

I'm not saying they should make the terrain emit light, I'm saying the sky should emit just a bit of light. Just to illuminate everything a tiny bit. Because currently, nothing reflects light at all. Adding just a bit of light wouldn't be gamebreaking.

Actually if there is no moon and no lights around the night is actually that dark

Your eyes adjust a bit though to take in more light

But there are stars and the Moon in the sky in the game. And the eyes adjusting to darkness thing is exactly the reason the nights are unrealistic. If the night lighting was realistic, you would at least see SOMETHING. Not just make out the silhouettes of some tall buildings and stuff. You would actually notice if there was a meter high metal pipe or something right in front of you, which you can't in the game.

[Draconic (DayZ) 0]

I agree the nights are a bit to dark, and you can still turn gamma way up and see outlines of buildings and trees, and not see anything inside, a lil unrealistic but i can live with it.

[GIGABIT 1]

I agree the nights are a bit to dark' date=' and you can still turn gamma way up and see outlines of buildings and trees, and not see anything inside, a lil unrealistic but i can live with it.

[/quote']

Yeah I know about the gamma changing thing, but it feels stupid to have to change settings when night comes. Feels like cheating, but at the same time feels like you MUST do it to be able to play at all.

And I guess you can adjust to it with time, but I really think that it would be much more fun to actually play properly in night time.

From my experience, most players really hate the nights because it isn't even smart to play when it's dark, and just change to a daytime server when night comes. It isn't even about it being HARD to play at night, it's because it's just not fun anymore to just tumble around in complete darkness.

I REALLY feel something should be done about this.

[-Sin- 5]

While what you are saying is true. The nights are actually affected by the Moon and clouds. Currently I believe it's a New Moon for the mod so that is why as of the past few days things have been INCREDIBLY dark. Because the first night I played this mod, the clouds cleared out of the sky and the moon was out and it was perfectly playable. Everything looked like it would on a clear night. Really the recent dark is due to the sky. Though I understand what you're saying as well, even on those cloudy no moon nights, at least your environment should reflect a bit so as to not be swimming in a pool of black.

[GIGABIT 1]

' pid='40650' dateline='1337547778']

While what you are saying is true. The nights are actually affected by the Moon and clouds. Currently I believe it's a New Moon for the mod so that is why as of the past few days things have been INCREDIBLY dark. Because the first night I played this mod' date=' the clouds cleared out of the sky and the moon was out and it was perfectly playable. Everything looked like it would on a clear night. Really the recent dark is due to the sky. Though I understand what you're saying as well, even on those cloudy no moon nights, at least your environment should reflect a bit so as to not be swimming in a pool of black.

[/quote']

Oh? That seems really interesting. That could explain why the nights are so damn dark now. And it would be really awesome if the game was actually so realistic. Can someone confirm this?

But yeah, the current state of the nights makes the game unplayable for many. Even if what you said is true, the current nights are still unrealistically dark.

[~Ren~ 0]

From my experience' date=' most players really hate the nights because it isn't even smart to play when it's dark, and just change to a daytime server when night comes. It isn't even about it being HARD to play at night, it's because it's just not fun anymore to just tumble around in complete darkness.

I REALLY feel something should be done about this.

[/quote']

I'll agree with this, I've played 2 nights so far for around 1-2 hours each time and it's almost impossible to play without stumbling into a zombie who's wandering just outside of town.

The hardest part I found was aiming, you can't see the iron sights against the background so I was having to go prone and aim upwards so the zombies were outlined against the sky, the only problem there is if I was swarmed by them, by the time I got up again, I was bleeding heavily and dead soon after.

[dallas 5195]

Moon rises at around 01.00 at the moment.

[GIGABIT 1]

I'll agree with this' date=' I've played 2 nights so far for around 1-2 hours each time and it's almost impossible to play without stumbling into a zombie who's wandering just outside of town.

The hardest part I found was aiming, you can't see the iron sights against the background so I was having to go prone and aim upwards so the zombies were outlined against the sky, the only problem there is if I was swarmed by them, by the time I got up again, I was bleeding heavily and dead soon after.

[/quote']

I feel your pain. I just spawned to find myself in the middle of about 5-6 zombies, of which I could see one in the darkness. I had to run away to get somewhere with at least some light so I could aim at them and when I got to a small area lit up with a fire, there were about 10 zombies after me, of which I'd seen maybe 3 in the darkness.

And this whole issue seems to me like it could be so easily fixed. Just put a light source in the night sky. So simple. Make the Moon emit a bit of light or something and the game would be 200% better.

[Vaxis 0]

I hate to break it to some of you, but that's just how night time works in the real world. When you're away from civilization and all our fancy electricity, it's pretty much black unless you have a full moon and clear skies overhead. I remember when I was at summer camp, finding my way from the mess hall to my campsite in the dark and rain. That was the longest half a mile in my life - I couldn't see balls and all I had was a tiny AA powered flashlight.

But sure, that's real life and this is a game. I've had my fair share of running blind into the night to avoid spawn campers or bandits in general - twice last night I ran head on into zombies, but that's all part of the game. The game isn't made for you to survive forever - if you're time to go is in the middle of the night being slapped by zombies you can't see, then that's the way you're gonna go.

[GIGABIT 1]

I hate to break it to some of you' date=' but that's just how night time works in the real world.

[/quote']

As far as I know, matter reflects light pretty decently in the real world, which is clearly not the case in the game, as EVERYTHING is PITCH_BLACK.

When you're away from civilization and all our fancy electricity' date=' it's pretty much black unless you have a full moon and clear skies overhead.

[/quote']

But that's the thing. The night sky in the game is perfectly clear most of the time and the Moon can be seen. They just don't count as light sources mechanics-wise.

I remember when I was at summer camp' date=' finding my way from the mess hall to my campsite in the dark and rain. That was the longest half a mile in my life - I couldn't see balls and all I had was a tiny AA powered flashlight.

[/quote']

Your eyes couldn't adjust to the darkness properly because you had a light. Were there no light, you could have at least approximately made out where a building is against a forest background from about 200m away, assuming the stars and Moon are out in a clear sky. Something completely impossible in ARMA.

But sure' date=' that's real life and this is a game. I've had my fair share of running blind into the night to avoid spawn campers or bandits in general - twice last night I ran head on into zombies, but that's all part of the game. The game isn't made for you to survive forever - if you're time to go is in the middle of the night being slapped by zombies you can't see, then that's the way you're gonna go.

[/quote']

Even if I'm wrong and the nights are indeed realistic, I don't think me or pretty much anybody else even wants them to be realistic.

If you want to make a realistic game, you inevitably face the problem of exactly HOW realistic you want it to be. This is because you have to think about if something works in a game or not. The nights in ARMA, even if supposedly realistic, aren't really practical because it limits the gameplay so much.

In my opinion, if something has more cons than pros, you should get rid of it, fix it, or replace it with something better. And I must say I'm having a damn hard time finding pros about the current nights in the game.

[saz 3]

It doesn't limit gameplay. It changes it.

BTW if you can't play during the dark nights wait until around the 27th (+/- one day) because then the moon will be back.

[Njordin 0]

i have to totally agree with you gigabit.

i love that the nights are really really dark, sneaking, hiding and stumbling into bad situations. the need of flares sometimes even if it is very dangerous. but i think its possible to have all that with a night just a little bit more brighter. i´m living in germany, countryside, many big woods and the "blackforest" in my directly neighbourhood and i have to agree: you can see something, even if its a bit cloudy. your eyes adapt enough light, thats my experience. the moon shines most of the time, and things reflect even through clouds. you get problems in forests with totally closed treetops ( depending on which trees the forest consists ).

the nights actually are way more realistic than in other games, but still unrealistic. a little bit too dark.

[GIGABIT 1]

you get problems in forests with totally closed treetops ( depending on which trees the forest consists ).

I agree that it should be extremely dark in the woods because the trees would block almost all light coming from the sky.

I also have to agree a bit with Saz, that the extremely dark night changes the gameplay, because you have to start using something to light up your surroundings.

I joined a server just now, it was completely dark as expected and for the first time I REALLY tried to get around and looting a town with just my starting gear. Having to use flares is a pretty nice change from the daytime gameplay, I have to admit. You need light, but when you have it, you need darkness.

As Saz said, the dark night really is a change to the gameplay. However, it's debatable if the change is good or not.

I for one, would like to be able to see the line between ground and a building.

[GIGABIT 1]

I just remembered a way that some games deal with really dark places.

Make the player character emit a bit of "personal light". Just a tiny bit to make you able to see the area around 30-50cm of the player. This would be a nice way to implement your characters' eyes adjusting to the darkness.

Obviously you wouldn't be like a walking torch or something. Other players or zombies couldn't see any light coming from you.

I've seen some games implement this feature pretty well but I have absolutely no idea how hard it would be to put it in the game. I imagine it's not easy to make a light source "personal" so only you could see it.

[RealSourLemonade 1]

I hate to break it to some of you' date=' but that's just how night time works in the real world. When you're away from civilization and all our fancy electricity, it's pretty much black unless you have a full moon and clear skies overhead. I remember when I was at summer camp, finding my way from the mess hall to my campsite in the dark and rain. That was the longest half a mile in my life - I couldn't see balls and all I had was a tiny AA powered flashlight.

But sure, that's real life and this is a game. I've had my fair share of running blind into the night to avoid spawn campers or bandits in general - twice last night I ran head on into zombies, but that's all part of the game. The game isn't made for you to survive forever - if you're time to go is in the middle of the night being slapped by zombies you can't see, then that's the way you're gonna go.

[/quote']

It Can Only Get So Dark

Before proceeding, it is worth noting that the s.a.a. thread so far seems to contain the implicit notion that you can find darker and darker sites if you get progressively farther from anthropogenic sources of light. This is not true, particularly from a practical standpoint. The Australian Outback, the coast northwest of Perth, the Chilean observatory sites, and isolated places in the US Southwest, plus many others have sky brightness negligibly different from the natural background, which sets a fundamental (and more-or-less inescapable) limit on how dark a site can be. The main contributions to the natural skyglow are: the zodiacal light, the night-airglow ("permanent aurora"), and scattered starlight in the atmosphere. There are also contributions from such things as scattered extragalactic "cosmic" light, but these are so small that even now their actual values are known only as upper limits.

Despite the fact that many folks have not seen the zodiacal light, much less the gegenschein or zodiacal band, it is the main contribution to the natural sky brightness even the ecliptic poles. The night-airglow varies considerably due to solar activity on the time scale of minutes/hours as well as over the 11-year solar cycle, and can greatly compromise the darkness at a site on any particular night. The zodiacal light, zodiacal band, and gegenschein are prominent features of the night sky at true-dark sites. They are not tests of visual acuity, but of sky brightness. The night-airglow is also easy to see at dark sites, at least where there is little scattered light from atmospheric dust and aerosols. There are many reported visual sightings of the rippled structure in this phenomenon, looking like banded very thin altocumulus clouds. This light is visible mostly from a forbidden line of ground-state oxygen which emits at 5577A, where most light-pollution filters have their red cutoff. Gordon Garradd has some nice photos of structured airglow at his Web site:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~loomberah/agw1.htm

This is the sort of thing you never see except at a "true-dark" site. The main night-sky brightness contribution---the zodiacal light---is of course just scattered sunlight, and thus is not improved by light-pollution filters.

Source: http://www.astropix.com/HTML/L_STORY/SKYBRITE.HTM

[GIGABIT 1]

Astronomy hells yea.

I'm so glad that someone actually cares enough to explain all this so well.

I honestly think this is a BIG issue in the game and should be fixed/made better as soon as possible, I cannot stress this enough. The game would be 50% more playable and fun if it was possible to see even a tiny bit of.. ANYTHING during night.

[Coach (DayZ) 0]

Sorry for my english.

My two cents about first post, nights that are DARK_AS_FCK and the opinion that those conditions are not realistic.

_________________

I play big airsoft games for about 5 years. It's not a computer game, it's not paint-ball. You can google. And "big" means 400+ people.

What can I say? When there is no moon, it's DARK_AS_FCK. It's REAL. Just like in DAY Z. While in the forest you can only see tree tops. You are completly lost without a light or NVG and can't move or move very slowly abd carefully. After 15 minutes in those conditions u'll have optical hallucinations. Once i was close to death, when I thought I explored the terrain well at daylight and decided to run 30-50 meters. I didn't make even 10 and felt into pit.

So... don't change anything, don't screw nights up.

No moon = no light = no vision = pain ;)

P.S. When the moon is in the sky, everything is fine.

[Stealth Pyro 3]

I usually play at night on any day of the week, and always try to play on one of the day servers I have saved in a text file. I agree that the night is WAY too dark and unplayable. I don't get what you guys mean about raising gamma/brightness if there was even a little bit of light, you can already do that. If night vision was a little bit more abundant (spawn in the towns that are along the coast) I would probably not mind, but if it is so dark that you can't even see what weapon you are holding, it is way too dark and not very realistic at all.

[pyrokinetiq 1]

GIGABIT,

The sky does emit a little bit of light. Your problem is either:

* The moon is not out

* Clouds are blocking moonlight

Maybe learn to understand how things work before you jump to conclusions and start complaining?

[JezzaFromAUS 0]

I think it's this dark to prevent the few players exploiting that bit of light. I'm 50-50 on this, I'd like it to emit light like you said, so you can actually make out your feet but it would have to be in a way that didn't allow people to increase their gamma etc. to see very clearly.

[GIGABIT 1]

Okay, so Coach clearly didn't read my post where I clearly said that if the nights are indeed realistic, I don't think most people want them to be because they aren't really practical and have more bad things than good things.

GIGABIT' date='

The sky does emit a little bit of light. Your problem is either:

* The moon is not out

* Clouds are blocking moonlight

Maybe learn to understand how things work before you jump to conclusions and start complaining?

[/quote']

I have played at night many, many times and during different weather and all of that. It's just too_damn_dark. I'm 100% sure that most of the players don't like how the current nights are. It's not a learn2play issue at this point, it's just common sense to stop doing something that you think is boring.

I think it's this dark to prevent the few players exploiting that bit of light. I'm 50-50 on this' date=' I'd like it to emit light like you said, so you can actually make out your feet but it would have to be in a way that didn't allow people to increase their gamma etc. to see very clearly.

[/quote']

You can't just "exploit light" using the gamma setting. The whole "turn up your gamma" stuff is bullshit.

The gamma setting does NOT make the lights BIGGER, it makes them BRIGHTER. Game mechanics-wise there is absolutely no way to exploit this.

Let's say you throw a flare at night. Your gamma setting is normal. The flare lights up an area of 20m².

If you turn up your gamma, the flare will still light 20m², it will just be really bright. I don't understand how you could exploit something like this.

If there is any light, you could actually see worse if you had your gamma up because everything will start to blur when you turn it up.

The "personal light" feature would be the best one in my opinion, but making the sky emit just a bit light would be easiest to do. This wouldn't break the game or make it too easy or something.

I agree, that many games today are way too easy and casualized, but COME ON this doesn't even have to do with difficulty anymore. Stop telling people to "deal with it" if you CLEARLY have a bad feature in a game and you have the possibility to fix it. Why shouldn't you be able to demand the best quality? Don't you want this mod to get better? If we don't complain about stuff, they won't ever get fixed and this mod will never be as good as it could be.

[StealthAmoeba 0]

I agree that the nights are too dark, its the kind of thing that humans deal with by going to sleep in real life. But since we can't do that in the game, there has to be some other way to deal with it. Especially for those players who can only play at night, and who don't want to deal with the lag of an EU or Russian server. If the mod is supposed to be "brutally realistic" then we have to factor sleep I think.