People are horrible.

[zolfo 13]

Right, I'm coming straight out and saying that I have yet to play this game. That said, I have read a lot about it while I wait for it to download on Steam, and have a couple of suggestions for making the rampant PvP more manageable.

1.) The humanity system.

I don't know if this is in place still or exactly how it works, but perhaps a good way to model this is to think about why people would (we're all assuming) be much less likely to cap someone over a can of beans in real life than in-game, given the same lawless, post-apocalyptic circumstances. Basically, it comes down to, MOST people would not do it because it would make them feel awful about themselves if they knew it was unprovoked and unnecessary. They would have a crisis of conscience and morality, it would affect their mood and mind and I think, and make them feel incredibly guilty. I'm not talking about the 50:50 chances where you run into someone who you know has murdered and would do again, or if you surprise a sniper in a nest where you know that he can't be after zombies, or if you simply return fire on someone who has fired first, but cold blooded murder - perhaps sniping someone who has not seen you, or is most obviously unarmed.

I propose that the morality system be used to make a player show signs of guilt and personal crisis the more murders he commits. This could include phantom sounds (gunshots, zombies, footsteps), and hallucinations (zombies, fake player models etc). The more guilt the worse these effects become. Also, the worse the crime the quicker the effect. It would be quite simple to code 'bad crimes', eg shooting an unarmed player, killing a player when the game 'detects' that the killer fired first. The punishment for killing an armed player or one who shot at you first is much less. The only way to alleviate your state is to help other players occasionally - give them supplies, transfusions etc. Essentially, the same way the game forces you to behave in a shocked and jumpy manner during/after combat, no matter what you think you might do IRL, the game should force some form of guilt and paranoia on you.

2.) Stats and rankings

I know nothing about how the game handles these, so feel free to shoot this down in flames, but if no player stats are visible to anyone else, no survival times, rankings etc,, it becomes far more of an RPG rather than a 'top the table by any means necessary' fest. Perhaps the only stat available to players should be time currently spent alive. If players want to boast about their 'skillz' they have to do so on forums like these where they spend more time around the community and can hopefully learn a bit more actual humanity by engaging with other people in a way that isn't pulling the trigger from 800m away.

EDITED to avoid emotive terminology.

no.... just no. in real life in a post apocalyptic thing i would shoot you and take your food, its survival of the fittest not survival of the nicest

[pooky (DayZ) 1]

the problem is that nobody plays the game like reality because they know that no matter what, if they die they can respawn again without consequence. In real life, people don't go around killing or stealing from other people only because they know that society will hold them responsible. If people treated others lives as being disposable like players do in this game, you wouldn't even be able to sleep at night out of fear of ambush. Because you only get one try in real life, and then you're gone. If death had a real consequence people would be way less inclined to shoot first and ask questions later, right now people don't even need to think "is it worth it". You aren't going to contribute towards creating a hostile kill on sight environment, if the direct consequence of that is you are likely to be killed yourself (and you cant magically come back to life)

bandits could suffer consequences, like penalties on their next spawn, maybe disadvantages like random injuries, lower max blood points, lock inventory slots, or prevent them from using larger backpacks. Even something like a cooldown before they can spawn a new character. e.g. have to wait 2hrs before you can respawn. The worse your humanity rating the greater severity punishment/disadvantages you receive. It's debatable how much punishment should be dealt, but I don't see how the game can work without some kind of humanity rating.

maybe there could be longer respawn timers or some other way to bring consequence to death in general, because even losing all your gear isn't that big of a deal.

Edited July 19, 2012 by pooky

[duddbudda 33]

poo you just suggested things that were suggested and thrown out months ago, please use the search function and play the game more before you make sweeping statements about mechanical necessities for a 'functioning' game

[pooky (DayZ) 1]

its unnecessary to search, common sense will always be repeated.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Until people stop shooting at me, I'm going to shoot you first. Seriously, I've been gunned down too many times minding my own business. Plus, you never know if the noob with the axe is on the server with a couple of heavily-armed friends the next town over. If I'm feeling charitable, I'll shoot you in the kneecap and disappear into the trees. Taking chances is a great way to get killed in this game.

Taking chances is also how I've come by some of my best gear so far and met some of the best random people.

[JESUSARIUS REX (DayZ) 163]

I'm 17 and one day in cherno a survivor was being chased by zombies. We helped him fight them of, and gave him some supplies. After that we left the building, and he shot us in the back with a enfield.

Dick move.

[engiNERD 4]

i was playin today, ran into a crew of two who "help me up", i guess, even tho I had just spawned. They asked if i wanted to tag along afterwords n I did. They had crossbows n pistols. I has nothing. As soon as we got into the church (which they made me risk my life by going into first) I found a shotgun, and once I equipped it they killed me just to take it....Pricks...why as me to join a crew, n then do me like that? [Removed For Racism]....some people just weren't raised right ...

Racist Comments NOT accepted here

Member Warned - 4L4N

Edited July 19, 2012 by 4L4N
Racism

[kander 80]

Funny thing is they were black....go figure....real life or game they still rob n murder...

Are you for real? Or is this just a (not at all funny) joke?

[Snakeman (DayZ) 0]

Essentially it boils down to necessity: it's more important to not be killed than take a chance on anothers morality.

IRL we'd only make the mistake of trusting a malfeasant once and then never again. But the game mechanic is different as we get to respawn and learn from our mistakes with foreknowledge.

There is no way to balance this dissonance without assaulting realism, which itself is why the game is high in integrity.

Having said that: I've played a game and helped someone that was unarmed, and during those brief moments it felt special.

[sanktas 6]

If it were real life there would not even be as close to many murders.

How do you know?

If the world has gone to shit and you are out alone with a gun and spot another guy, would you rush to him saying " Haay i'm friendly let's team up!" I sure wouldnt.

If i was in a world like that i'd have a group that i trusted (RL friends) And then trust no one else, everyone else is just walking supply caches.

[Hungrypiemonger 1]

The one time I did kill anyone in cold blood unprovoked I actually felt bad about it. Although whenever I've killed someone protecting myself from harm I feel perfectly vindicated. It's all in what kind of person you are and what has shaped you as a person morally speaking.

[canty103@live.co.uk 9]

Most guys I've come across have been friendly but reading through the forum one day i feel this will change...

[kovalhuk 19]

There will never be a reward/punishment system.

In real life, you get reward and punishment from society and the State. If you commit a murder, the police asks questions to witnesses, find your DNA, try to find you... and throw you in jail.

In DayZ, there are only ~50 humans left in a big country, there are no more cops, no law, no State and often no witnesses.

Realisticly the only reward you can get from not killing people is that 1) you can make friends (but you take a big risk if they decide to kill you) and form a clan, and 2) you won't get shot at if you run away from everyone. The punishment for killing people are non-existent, except if you get killed yourself.

Any other system will completely breaks the immersion in the game. The game is full-pvp, it's a lawless non-society simulator, where small groups of players struggle to survive by any mean necessary. You're not supposed to get punished for trying to survive.

How punish someone for killing in a WROL? There's no law, so no crime. Now, if people becomes afraid of you, they will avoid mess with you, if not, just shoot their faces and sleep in peace.

[GldnSabre 0]

When I started Dayz I was the one that would help. But I got killed 3 times in 1 day by bandits when I started so at that point all must die for me to survive. I cannot take the chance you are friendly you must all die. Nothing personal just good survival skills. You gots stuffs I needz, So I shooty a bullit in yoooooz face and stealeth your stuffeth.

[wrappa 0]

+1 to the OP for a story for all to heed

The divide between 'Survival' and 'Horror' when your finally North and have some items is scary.

I don't want the life as a Solo Survivor who is gradually forced into to living as a Bandit but on this life I'm the furthest i've ever been on DayZ and I feel uneasy at the prospect of my chances.

[enforcer1975 1111]

I still think people who go the same path as their murderers share the same narrow mind. Only choosing the cod/bf path "shoot what you see" instead of thinking of alternatives ( other than approaching and getting shot , or shooting even if it's not neccesary ). People who shoot you in the back once you've helped them are 10 times worse and they really should go see a psychiatrist if they don't want to shoot someone in the back after beeing helped when their car had a breakdown IRL.

[Baelethal 102]

I think the risk vs. reward factor varies greatly here. Recently, I've been spending copious amounts of time in Elektro and Cherno, mainly people watching. I've ventured down into the city as well, seeing what living in a city would be like. I've noticed a few things.

Yes, jackwagons exist, but in far fewer numbers than perpetrated.

Unarmed survivors seem to be the most deadly. Of the unarmed survivors that I've met, not a single one was truly "friendly". I had gear and weapons, and they had nothing to lose as soon as they found anything to bludgeon/bullet me to death. Most of the decent people I've met already have their weapons (our paths crossed accidentally or tactfully), perhaps because they don't really have anything to gain from a murder, but they could gain some potential help from a non-hostile.

Language matters. The tone and words you use when making first contact over mic matter. I've noticed I'm personally less inclined to believe someone who shouts "friendly" as opposed to someone who will form a sentence, such as "I don't want any trouble" or "I'm not looking to shoot you." I've noticed that I've had more success diffusing a potentially hostile situation by not saying I'm friendly, but that I'm not looking for a fight, and set up the parameters for both parties to disengage. It's a subtle thing. The other party knows that aggression on their part will be met with violence. The other party knows that I'm not about to be some bleeding heart pushover that wants to hold hands and skip through the forest. Same holds true in reverse. I will know that any actions I take that are aggressive will be met with violence, and the question becomes do I want to take that chance; what is there for me to gain? In those situations, there's no real second guessing what is meant, since "friendly" can be so ambiguous.

[XOR (DayZ) 0]

I luv dayz

[Bianca 92]

It is very easy to figure out how things work:

"Better safe than sorry"

[tanker 2]

Maybe when I get all tooled up, I'll go hunting bandits. Kind of like Robin Hood and his Merry Men.

[DarkEvilDead 2]

Now last night I was playing and just raided some deer stands to the north of Kame. and I was coming up to a house some some zombies and another player running around the house looking for a way in he had an ax and I had an AK so I slowly walked up to the with my gun drawn upon the player the whole way. I got to the back side of the house he was around I could of shot him and I just couldn't do it the I heard a crackle over my headset......."hello" didn't ask if I was friendly so I was guessing that he was new to the game so instead of being the dick I try to help him any way I could so I took him the the deer stands and found him an akm and food and drink. After about 30 mins I pointed him in a direction of a close by town and had to leave.

I rather help people than kill them. I have killed two people in the past because they didn't anwser me when I asked "Friendly", but I don't prefer that.

[imp0ssibru 0]

Got some binoculars and turned on 'Peeping Tom' mode, climbing up onto a destroyed castle and looking over a town. I saw a guy running away from several zombies, it didn't look like he had a weapon to fight them off with. Another survivor ran up and shot the zombies down one by one, until they were all dead, and then started to check the bodies. The guy that had just been saved pulled out an axe behind the savior's back and hacked away at him, took his gun, and ran off.

I couldn't even believe it when I saw it. Who honestly does that? I know you want a gun and all, but killing the guy that just saved your life? I don't care how mentally messed up you are even in the situation of a zombie apocalypse, your mind would be able to register that someone just -saved- you.

Far too much senseless PvP, if this is to be considered a simulator and not Battlefield with zombies then stop just killing other players for the fun of it and -survive-. You got bored? Then stay up north and fight other players that stand a chance, pretend that they're other military soldiers that are out for your heart, don't come back south with a high power sniper rifle and all the military equipment you can handle to shoot players that are going to Elektro for the first time(Civilians).

Maybe I'm in disbelief because I play the role of medic. Earlier today I saw a guy with broken legs, crawling around inside a building looking for help. After establishing I was friendly(He had a gun, I was still scared), I put my back to him and offered my morphine from an earlier hospital raid. He only took one of them and healed himself, thanked me, and walked off. I can only hope that he remembers that the next time he's thinking about shooting someone that's just innocently trying to get by.

So far the best way for me to earn the trust of a -decent- human being is to just turn my back to them/look at a complete 90 degree angle away, and start talking over the mic. I believe that it's a lot harder for someone to decide to shoot a person in the back -while- hearing their voice then it is to blow a silent player away that's pointing a gun at them. And it honestly works. If I run up to someone with a weapon out, I get blown away instantly. If I make contact and turn away while communicating, the amount of PvP deaths decreases significantly.

The moral of this QQ story? Stop shooting friendly players in the face for no reason. You don't have to trust every player you see, in fact, I discourage that. In a real apocalypse I would be extremely cautious, but I wouldn't mindlessly kill everyone like a maniac. Keep your eyes on them, and attack only when you feel threatened/are attacked.

This is why this game is so awesome, Shane in The Walking Dead is you're hatchet guy and you, well.. you're Carl.. awesome game, just awesome

[smittyjaja 4]

I actually think it's great that players attack each other, it creates a new threat in a zombie survival world other than zombies.

I too kill anyone I see, mainly for the lols.

[Aegis159 0]

I'm sure it's been suggested by others, but what if fellow player bodies couldn't be looted if you've just killed them? It's already like this regarding the different outfits, why not extend it to anything in thier packs or only things that are in their packs, or only their primary or secondary slots?

If the drive for most of these people is to simply take what they don't have from other people, then why not take that out of the equation?

Granted, it won't stop everyone, players like Smittyjaja there will keep killing for the lulz, but it would diminish the "I want what you have" killings....

Edited July 19, 2012 by Aegis159

[imp0ssibru 0]

I'm sure it's been suggested by others, but what if fellow player bodies couldn't be looted if you've just killed them? It's already like this regarding the different outfits, why not extend it to anything in thier packs or only things that are in their packs, or only their primary or secondary slots?

If the drive for most of these people is to simply take what they don't have from other people, then why not take that out of the equation?

Because this is a Survival Simulator