An all-round solution to alt-F4 & server hopping

[chaR 40]

As of now, alot of the gameplay related problems with DayZ are related to how the game closes.

I've read about the radio-tower posted by a DayZ staff member (http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29313-some-feature-ideas-requesting-feedback/), though I believe this is a terrible way to fix this issue (for reasons which I won't discuss here, unless people want to know my reasoning). As of result, I've worked out something similar.

1) Abort-Disconnect to reset zombies, a highly efficient way to quickly get to certian places to avoid zombies.

2) Alt+F4ing when being under fire, instantly saving yourself from any harm (and sometimes even rollbacking a kill or damage done!)

3) Server hopping to quickly farm high valued lootspawns.

4) Server hopping to safely get to a certain position, to sneak up on players.

Anybody who has played WoW knows about the delay when loging out in a non-rested zone.

I would propose a delay similar to this to be implemented in DayZ.

A. A delay of 5 minutes when logging out of the game. This immediatly kicks in when you start playing the game. If a player alt+F4's, his character will still remain visible and killable in the game for that duration aswell.

--> (1) This delay can be reduced to 1 minute by logging out in a forest.

--> (2) This delay can be reduced to 10 seconds by being at a burning campfire.

--> (3) The delay will only kick in after being active in-game for 15 seconds.

Reasoning:

(1) Newly geared players might not have the tools necisarry to make a campfire, though, closing the game in a forest is safe, most of the time. I doubt a player who can't even make a campfire would value his character so high that he wouldn't dare to leave his character unattended for 1 minute in a forest.

(2) Nobody wants to wait forever to close the game, hence why there should be a way to reduce the timer significantly. If a player believes has the time to make a campfire & not be spotted, one can say he isn't anywhere close to being attacked.

(3) Some people serverjump when they start playing the game because they do or do not want a night-time server. Like me personally, the game is impossible for me to play on certain servers, even with gamma & brightness fully turned up. For these situations, there should be a way to still get off the servers while not being affected by the delay.

==> Result: Alt-F4ing is impossible, people can still safely logout without having to wait forever, avoiding zombie aggro is impossible aswell.

B. A delay of 5 minutes when logging on a new server, after having suffered logout delay. This delay doubles every time somebody tries to logon to a new server while being in the same "session".

Sessions are period of 1hour of not being active in the game.

Examples:

1) Player X boots his computer, starts up DayZ, plays for 2 hours, logs off on a campfire. After logging off, player X goes to play Counter-Strike for 1hour. Then Player X logs back onto DayZ. Player X will suffer no login delay.

2) Player Y boots his computer, starts up DayZ, plays for 2 hours, logs off on a campfire. After logging off, player Y tries to connect to a different server immediatly. Player Y will have to wait 5 minutes before he's able to connect to any other server except his previous one.

If Player Y does wait 5 minutes, logs in on a different server, suffers another logout delay & tries to log a new server again, the delay will now be 10 minutes. The next time he repeats this scenario it will be 20, 40, etc...

Note: Only your previous server will have no login delay. Say a player has log'd UK12, US190 and DE43 in the past hours (in this order). If he disconnects from DE43, he will only have no login delay when connecting to DE43. There will be login delay again on UK12 and US190 untill he resets his "session."

Note: One can still safely disconnect n do something else for less than an hour, as long as you connect to your old server again.

This "fix" will prevent players from server-hopping for loot or sneaking up on people almost fully.

Server-hopping isn't worth it at all like this anymore, especially not past the first "jump".

Sneaking up on players can still be done (since often ppl camp the same spot for extended amounts of time (sometimes even for hours), though it is greatly reduced in effectiveness.

To fully fix the sneaking up on players through server hopping, I propose the following

C. Somewhat similar to the Radio-Tower that was proposed, I suggest the implementation of a radar.

The radar would do only 1 thing: if a player with login delay spawns in a vincinity of 200 (radius to be elaborated) meters of the player carrying the radar, it will give you a warning in the chatbox saying: "A player with XX minutes login delay has spawned in your area."

Snipers would have a way of preventing serverhoppers from sneaking up on them this way, though they'd have to make an effort to do so.

Spawnlocations & rarity of the item are still to be determined, though it should go on the toolbelt.

This is my full idea of how I think the issue should be adressed.

It's alot simpler than the radio tower, isn't as exploitable & is way more effecient in my opinion.

Please give your feedback and criticism (since I obviously might've missed a few things) & if you support my idea, keep this thread up so the developers can see it aswell!

Edited July 17, 2012 by chaR

[chaR 40]

No feedback at all :|?

Nobody even massively flaming, what is this

[velyse (DayZ) 22]

Radar is absolutely retarded and does not fit in with the mod in any way.

It's all too complicated. It requires lots of "checking" and would likely increase load times for everyone. A simple logout delay is really best. Would prevent alt-f4ing and server hopping a bit. A cooldown would get in the way significantly especially if you bounce around to bad servers and 15 seconds sometimes is not enough to decide if you want to stay, especially when you're waiting for friends and the like. One guy loads in and waits for his buddy, then the other guy loads in significantly later and they decide not to stick around and just disconnect. Sorry guys, since you didnt take the time to make a campfire because neither of you had matches or an axe you now need to wait five whole minutes to connect to a new server. Or spend five minutes running out of cherno or whatever populated area you are in to a bunch of trees to wait even longer to logout.

Whoops you got cooldown timers twice now it's ten minutes.

Crap a server with someone hacking and nuking everyone we better DC before he bombs us too. 20 minutes. Obviously the logout timer would cause issues in this case for every circumstance but punishing people for that is a little stupid.

It's a good idea but the login and loading system is currently fucked enough as is to add more mess to it.

[servebotfrank 14]

I don't really like some of these solutions that much. They kinda just punish legitimate players rather than the people who should suffer. Case in point: The delay for logging out is too long. If I log out in a forest and then a minute later another player runs by and shoots me and I have no idea I was shot until I logged in I would be pissed.

With the timer on logging out in a server idea, there are many legitimate reasons to leave a server and go on a different one. Maybe the current server is really laggy (Regardless of connection) or you and your friends are just trying out servers looking for one suitable for you all.

Also the logout delay punishes real players more since let's say hypothetically they are in a city and they have to get off for some reason or another then they are punished with a giant timer that will kill a character they might've worked on getting the equipment for.

[Mooseocalypse 59]

Rocket has already said the "rested" logout is not possible because of ARMA's netcode.

[jesquik 75]

OP, thanks for the long detailed post. I love reading stuff like this because it shows that people care about the mod and want to improve it. However, I think that you, and most people, are over thinking/engineering this, including Ander's radio tower. From all the posts I have seen I have consolidated my own version of how to deal with ghosting and help minimize server hopping.

Solutions to Ghosting:

1) Disconnect timer (30-60 seconds)

2) NO DISCONNECT IF YOU ARE IN SHOCK

3) If someone uses a weapon within 100-200m of you, +10-20 seconds on your disconnect timer.

I have a different opinion on how to rid the game of server hopping entirely, which I won't go into here. I also LOVE the idea of radio towers, but only for the suppression of ZED spawning.

Edited July 17, 2012 by jesquik

[jesquik 75]

Rocket has already said the "rested" logout is not possible because of ARMA's netcode.

It's not impossible. If the players believe it should be there Rocket may be convinced to pursue similar options. If the player disconnects before a timeout, put a zombie there in it's place. If the zombie dies, update the hive, kill the player. It is likely true that a straight 'disconnect timer' would require BI to do some work, but there is always more than one way to crack an egg.

[Ampoliros 43]

I wonder if the current code/build would allow for Alt-F4 to be linked with killing your character/respawn, making its only value to deny another player a kill.

Hit alt f4, respawn at beach.

[DestinyAscension 4]

I agree, that this Alt+F4 thing is a problem. I think it is ok if players hop servers to get the loot of the barracks or something. this is not as critical, because it is not less dangerous than just scavenging the rest of the map just saves time. Its not realistic, but it does not ruin the game. But the combat logging really sucks. I once had a case i killed someone in a firestation. Obvious kill, the server confirmed it, as i loot the body suddenly disappears. Not considering a devilish betrayal of my honesty(although i'm banditing) i kept looting as the guy i just killed logged in right infront of e and kills me. On the other hand a delay of 3minutes would cost people which have performance issues a lot of time. I have got 10fps and less on 7 out of 10 servers, I need to hop to find a server on which i run around 30fps.

These facts stated, i agree with a delay, but it should be just about 30seconds up to about 1minute.

But actually no delay would help against server hopping to get behind somebody, a camper or similar. It may decrease chances , but its still possible.

@Jesquik

200m is quite a range. If you want to log out inside the town it might happen, that your character doesnt disconnect for minutes. what would actually ruin alot of time, if youwant to go to bed quickly, or really need/want to change server because your friends found a chopper on RU938

@Ampoliros

Brilliant idea actually :)

Edited July 17, 2012 by DestinyAscension

[Strawcrow 10]

So if your connection goes out you are screwed with these ideas. Not to mention joining servers that let you spawn but say the server is running older files in flashing white text on the screen... or the server is running like crap. Or if you are like me and have real responsibilities, like kids and those they care for, and sometimes you must find a bush or tree and leave the game fast to deal with the real world. I really do not like the idea of my char there for minutes after that. Could you just make it so when you come into a server there is a timer that will keep you from picking up loot or firing your weapon? That way those leaving for legit reasons can come back in, wait a few and go about their play. This would make sure you choose a good place to leave a server as when you come in you cannot fire guns or loot items.

[Quaby 93]

It's not like this has been suggested before in hundreds of other threads.......

[chaR 40]

It's not like this has been suggested before in hundreds of other threads.......

Well, I liked to believe that the way I brought it up was worked out alot more than many other ppl did :P

[hulkingunicorn 20]

Huge post, click arrow above to see

First off, I'll state that I'm not impressed with you bumping in general, especially not two hours after creating the topic.

When it comes to your actual suggestions, I think they're a bit too wide. You want to prevent/punish players for doing points one to four, yet your suggestions would impact everyone. Game crashes while looting a store? Your character is stuck there for five minutes regardless or not of whether you were in actual danger at the time.

Disconnecting to avoid death

I'd rather have a "danger timer/state", started by:

• Firing a weapon (including throwing flares/cans)
  
• Being fired upon (nearby impacts should count)
  
• Being near a moving vehicle you're not inside of
  
• Being chased/discovered by zombies
  

If you close the game or disconnect while the timer isn't running, then nothing happens (like today). However, if the game thinks you're in danger when your game crashes or you try to cheat death, you'll be punished.

On another note, I think your section B isn't fleshed out enough. For example, how should the login delay work? Should your player be vulnerable while it's ticking (this sounds unreasonable to me) or would it simply take more time to login? If the danger state takes care of people disconnecting during combat, the remaining issues are the ones who decide to server flank without triggering the state and those who server jump for loot.

Server flanking without triggering danger state

If someone disconnects from server A and connects to server B (and spawns/moves ingame there), trying to play on server A within thirty minutes of the initial disconnect will show you a message telling you the amount of time before you are allowed to rejoin the server. At that point, rejoining server B (or connecting to another server) will not cause any repercussions.

Server jumping for loot

The system is triggered when you connect to the third server within thirty minutes. Effect: Remove loot client side within 2 km and prevent loot spawn within this area for the specified player for the next twenty minutes. Each subsequent server change will double the range and duration.

This way, we're allowed some leeway in switching servers if there are horrible lag issues etc, and even if you suffer from it you can travel into a loot area (unless you switch often enough to cover the entire province).

It's not impossible. If the players believe it should be there Rocket may be convinced to pursue similar options. If the player disconnects before a timeout, put a zombie there in it's place. If the zombie dies, update the hive, kill the player. It is likely true that a straight 'disconnect timer' would require BI to do some work, but there is always more than one way to crack an egg.

Instead of placing a zombie, place a unit with ai disabled and make it drop the loot stored in the database for the disconnected player (if it's killed within a reasonable time frame). We'd need to make sure he can't reconnect anywhere before the dumb unit is killed or the anti-disconnect expires. Rocket did have some issues with duplication when he tried a similar thing though.

I wonder if the current code/build would allow for Alt-F4 to be linked with killing your character/respawn, making its only value to deny another player a kill.

Hit alt f4, respawn at beach.

There will always be a way to quickly terminate the game, so it makes more sense to find a way to deter people from doing so instead of plugging every possible way to do it. In the end, someone can always pull out the plug of his computer, unless you have a sealed, DayZ certified box running on nuclear power.

[jesquik 75]

I agree, that this Alt+F4 thing is a problem. I think it is ok if players hop servers to get the loot of the barracks or something. this is not as critical, because it is not less dangerous than just scavenging the rest of the map just saves time. Its not realistic, but it does not ruin the game. But the combat logging really sucks. I once had a case i killed someone in a firestation. Obvious kill, the server confirmed it, as i loot the body suddenly disappears. Not considering a devilish betrayal of my honesty(although i'm banditing) i kept looting as the guy i just killed logged in right infront of e and kills me. On the other hand a delay of 3minutes would cost people which have performance issues a lot of time. I have got 10fps and less on 7 out of 10 servers, I need to hop to find a server on which i run around 30fps.

These facts stated, i agree with a delay, but it should be just about 30seconds up to about 1minute.

But actually no delay would help against server hopping to get behind somebody, a camper or similar. It may decrease chances , but its still possible.

@Jesquik

200m is quite a range. If you want to log out inside the town it might happen, that your character doesnt disconnect for minutes. what would actually ruin alot of time, if youwant to go to bed quickly, or really need/want to change server because your friends found a chopper on RU938

@Ampoliros

Brilliant idea actually :)

Nicely stated, and I agree that disconnecting is the number two problem with the game right now, right after duping.

As far as your reply to my idea, please don't take the extreme (200m) as what I said... I gave a range for a reason - play testing is the only way to figure out the correct number. Also, I don't care if your friend found a heli on another server and you want to server hop. Get out of the town and into the woods then log. Going into a city should be dangerous AND a dedicated mission. If you were in a real zombie apocalypse you certainly would never camp in town unless you had a fortified area.

[MinxinG 50]

The one I agree most is the A and B!

I would like option A to be implemented! Very good suggestion!

[killashrub324815@gmail.com 18]

Just add a 30 second delay to leaving a game. If you alt F4 your dude still sits ther for 30 seconds.

[herd 69]

So if your connection goes out you are screwed with these ideas.

Noone cares about Afrika and 1% of people with bad internet. In Diablo3 Harcore you also die if your internet lags. Who fucking cares

[DestinyAscension 4]

Noone cares about Afrika and 1% of people with bad internet. In Diablo3 Harcore you also die if your internet lags. Who fucking cares

Sad but true...

I'm for the 30second delay. Would help alot actually. Seems Rocket has to be creative with the implementation of rested logout.

Edited July 19, 2012 by DestinyAscension

[chaR 40]

Yea, just any form of delay would help as of now really, even if it' sa tiny one.

Met some guy at NWAF w L85, Coyote backpack etc...

We killed him, but he instantly log'd off n the corpse disappeared for some reason

[herd 69]

Yea, just any form of delay would help as of now really, even if it' sa tiny one.

Met some guy at NWAF w L85, Coyote backpack etc...

We killed him, but he instantly log'd off n the corpse disappeared for some reason

The corpse disappears also if he respawns couple of times. Another major problem

[adamhodsdon399@hotmail.com 9]

Not a fan of these ideas. It would not only create many more issues by implementing said features, but would also punish new players or people with poor/average connections.

I think a small delay when attempting to log out would be a good idea though (e.g. trying to log out of the game, you have to wait 5 seconds before it actually logs you out. During this time you are still vulnerable) but punishing to change servers and informing players that someone has spawned nearby would deter not only new players, but veterans alike.

[DestinyAscension 4]

i think a delay of 30 seconds shouldnt be that much of an issue. As you are aware of this you can look for a safe place to log of.

[highpanda 3]

You shouldn't be able to log out after being in combat for at least 30 seconds. And when I say combat I mean chased by a zombie or opened fire.

Also what if Alt+F4 don't make you dissapear but it makes you stand still in game even though your client is closed for about 10 minutes. You should be able to log back in whenever you want on the same server so it don't affect people with crashing client or disconnecting.

[subvision 14]

(3) Some people serverjump when they start playing the game because they do or do not want a night-time server. Like me personally, the game is impossible for me to play on certain servers, even with gamma & brightness fully turned up. For these situations, there should be a way to still get off the servers while not being affected by the delay.

The serverjumps caused by nighttime on the server can be avoided by using the dayzcommander. in this tool you can not only see whats turned on/off on the server, but you can also see the actual time on the server.

this is a nice tool to be used after updating the game with the six launcher.

@Topic:

I am for a general 30 seconds delay on logout. AFAIK this is difficult to be built in. I think, Rocket said something like this but I don't remember well.

[SnR 16]

Its already possible, and out there in the wider Arma community - Xenos' latest version to his Domination MP mission has the required delay/ timer.