defibrillator in the game.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

Defib as in BF series?

I'd rather not.

An enhanced medical system enlarging on the existing one? Oh yes. It may not be realistic but would add another layer to combat.

the A.C.E. mod and Project Reality mod have good med systems.

Rgds

LoK

[ActionManZlt 160]

Let's think like this. If you have your blood volume lower than certain amount, you're dead. First, body dead, and after several minutes, brain dead. To perform the reviving, one must give blood transfusion while defibrillating. Not a bad idea for reviving people who just died under than certain amount of minute. Headshot or some other severe injury is instant death, though.

That's an interesting idea.

Coincidentally, it's the same as the current system, except that in the current system, your brain never fully starves to death (it dies and comes back in a cycle until you're revived), and everyone starts with an invisible defibrillator! Wow!

[jamesjordan24@hotmail.com 14]

ACE medical system kgo.

Bandaging to stop bleeding

Morphine to stop pain (Affects aim, if not treated in time will in turn stop your heart)

Epinephrine to wake unconscious players

CPR to bring back people whos heart has stopped

Blood transfusion to add blood back (not an ace feature, but ties in with the dayz medical system)

Basically how it works.is, you get shot, okay, now you're bleeding, how bad is the wound? was it a pistol calibre or was it rifle

The weapon will firstmost determine how bad the bleeding is, next comes where you were hit.

If you're bleeding badly, you may need more than one bandage

Next up, you're going to be in pain, your aim is going to suffer and you may pass out, administer morphine to counteract this

Woo boy, you were hit bad, you've passed out from the injuries, you need an epi-pen to bring you back up

Oh shit son, your heart has stopped, better crack out the CPR and bring you back up to speed real quick.

Basically from start to finish its a 3 step process for a serious wound.

Bandage the patient, morphine the patient, then administer epinephrine to bring them back up.

Then after that to tie in with dayz, give them a transfusion to restore that glorious blood.

[tiaitchsi 26]

"..Have you ever wondered why they call it a defibrillator instead of a de-deather or de-lawsofnaturer? That's because defibrillators don't work that way; they can't bring people back to life. They are a little like Sean Connery: suave and sexy in movies, but pretty unimpressive in real life (also very old and hairy).

Basically, what the defib machines can do is help a patient regain a regular heart rythm when they go into cardiac arrest, which it does by stopping their heart.

Hopefully, it restarts with a normal rhythm. If the patient is already flat-lining, meaning their heart has already stopped beating, using the defibrillator to stop it some more will do about as much good as removing a malignant brain tumor with a shotgun blast.

Imagine your heart is a dude carrying a few heavy boxes, which in this metaphor contain your organs. If he drops them, you die. When you have a heart attack this imaginary man loses his balance and starts swaying dangerously. A defibrillator is the guy that runs over and helps your heart stand up straight, effectively saving your life. What the defibrillator won't do is gather your heart up off the ground if it has already fallen and dropped its boxes, because quite frankly he's late for work as it is."

Should clear things up.

[gant12000 4]

Basically how it works.is, you get shot, okay, now you're bleeding, how bad is the wound? was it a pistol calibre or was it rifle

The weapon will firstmost determine how bad the bleeding is, next comes where you were hit.

i thought this was a great idea, wanted to just laugh though with the thought process. how bad is the wound? zombie took a bite out bit out your pancreas....umm. that's pretty bad bleeding, lucking the zombie didnt swallow the pancreas. i cant put it back in, but we can cook it later and get back blood if we eat it.

[jesquik 75]

The defibrillator is a great idea, but it needs to be expanded on to better sort out the balancing of the game mechanics.

First off, we need to clean up some of the medical actions in the game.

Epi-Pens and Morphine injectors. I don't think its fair that players can hold 10 and 5 round clips for the M107 and AS50 when one bullet from a clip is the same size of a Epi-Pen or Auto-injector. It would be nice if they stacked or could be placed in a medical bag, similar to the the space where hand gun ammo, m203 grenades, and bandages go, but separate. No, this would not make finding them any easier, just storing them less of a hassle.

Then there is the defibrillator, is it one use? or a tool? or some thing that can go into your medical bag?

And finally, we get to how it works. The situation is, your buddy's and you are hanging out at North West Airfield and the group happens apon another group. Fighting breaks out and your group comes out on top, but sadly one man down. Thankfully, it wasn't the medic, but now you have to revive your slain friend. Your buddy was shot, But instead of the "You are Dead" screen we all know and love, he is met with that green hour glass only it is red. So, in the time he got shot to the time the fight ended he was looking at the "red" hourglass waiting to see if his buddies made it through the fight before it runs out. The team was quick in it extermination of the other team and back in time to save "Buddy". Now you can't just use the defib and he will be up and ready to fight another day, you have to perform triage.

First, you have to Put the defibrillator down and let it charge, noted by the high pitch charging sound. (Takes about a min)

Second, while you are waiting, tend to his wounds. Bandage the poor guy.

Third, give him a blood bag, he bled out during the fire fight, he needs to be topped off.

Forth, administer adrenaline to get his heart going.

Finally, the defib is charged, use it. That will put his hear in sinus rhythm and bring "Buddy" out of the "Red" Hourglass State.

If all this is done before the "Red" Hourglass counts down then "Buddy" gets to live to fight another day. If the "red" hourglass counts down, or if he chooses to just die (a option that needs to be added on all hourglass screens) he will be greeted with the "You are Dead" screen. Some consideration can be made on whether he can be revived from certain situations like; Did he get a head shot? Was he sick before he was shot? Bandit or no? What Ever.

Understanding the sheer amount of effort to revive a person, and the spawn rates of the needed items, mixed with the need for them out side of reviving players, one could keep this idea from being to over powered.

This is possibly the best system for defibrilators I have seen explained. In no way does this mean that I like the idea, because I don't, but it's well crafted. It certainly would not be a spammable option, and would basically allow a group of players that fought off another group to win++.

[trikipum@gmail.com 1]

Yes you are right its unrealistic.Its way more realistic the way we got now to cure deadly gunshots. You do it with a bandage and some meat, but cooked meat. That part is important. Or you can also get a transfusion "only from another person" (nice realism touch here). half a liter of blood will restore you 3 liters. Just like it work in hospitals. Oh man.

[mesmichael 6]

do you really want it? it would make a sniper and spoter unstoppable

[mysticviperx 5]

I wasn't going for extreme realism, yeesh people.

On the matter of blood loss or "0 blood means you are dead", you can lose blood to a point and still be alive. The body is a wonderful thing, especially when it comes to life or death situations. I really don't want to go into what is real and what isn't. Again, the current mechanics of the game needs to be changed for a defibrillator to be added in. For those blood loss nay say'ers, I would propose that the "0 blood" indicator on the debug monitor is simply a measure of the amount of blood needed to stay conscious. Not the designator of Death.

See, I can link Wikipedia too.

And now I'm linking something else.

Pay special attention to the symptoms of "hypovolemic shock", most notably unconsciousness, that's all I'm looking for. And a complication from blood loss can be heart attack. There, now we are not just shocking the guy back to life, we are saving him.

I have never and will probably never play "Call of Modern Warfare Duty 12: Battlefield Edition", so any similarities to the game are purely your doing. I hear that game has guns, so they need to stop copying DayZ.

I simply want to add a mechanic that allows groups to stay groups and give lone banditry less appeal. I don't want to remove banditry, but I also don't want the lone sniper to be a greater force than a group of 5 well armed survivors. If added, my request is the defibrillator be a one use item, and require that the user hold position for a amount of time to prevent use of the item as a means of escape. And that the procedure consume more medical supply's than just the defib. For the sake of realism, lets add the need for other players performing first aid with the guy administering the defibrillator. The defib guy is stuck in a animation setting up the defib, if he moves then he has to start over, there has to be other guys to administer the bandage, epi-pen, blood bag, hell we will add morphine in there too. And all this has to be done while the defib is being setup, or the 60 second window for the defib to charge.

If you wish I can go into even more detail on the mechanics, including thwarting some of the bugs and glitches this mechanic may cause. More balancing concepts, and the overall affect of the game. As it has been said many times over and it will be said many times more, this game is in alpha, not all the mechanics are added or even set in stone.

Edited July 18, 2012 by MysticViperX

[Jehangir 52]

Let us not turn this into World of Warcraft. Dead is dead.

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

First, you have to Put the defibrillator down and let it charge, noted by the high pitch charging sound. (Takes about a min)

Second, while you are waiting, tend to his wounds. Bandage the poor guy.

Third, give him a blood bag, he bled out during the fire fight, he needs to be topped off.

Forth, administer adrenaline to get his heart going.

Finally, the defib is charged, use it. That will put his heart in sinus rhythm and bring "Buddy" out of the "Red" Hourglass State.

If all this is done before the "Red" Hourglass counts down then "Buddy" gets to live to fight another day. If the "red" hourglass counts down, or if he chooses to just die (a option that needs to be added on all hourglass screens) he will be greeted with the "You are Dead" screen. Some consideration can be made on whether he can be revived from certain situations like; Did he get a head shot? Was he sick before he was shot? Bandit or no? What Ever.

I really like the mechanics of this. Got my support.

[gant12000 4]

the problem i see with posts like these, is people dont actually want a defibrillator, they want a revive mechanic.

implementation could also go with players having a negative blood count, which i know exists thanks to all you boys with a big ol sniper rifle, at 0 player is now officially terminally wounded. -70 is dead. add maybe two more class scripts for damages that could only occur with an if statement if player health = 0 then start the counter of blood loss at a steady rate of 1 per second. 70 seconds, two more damages unique to this state could also appear, creating whoever is attempting to do the rescue to do some battlefield medicine to the patient to stabilize them before moving them or what have you.

and...in addition, it gives snipers the joy of knowing that for 70 seconds, that player has to watch their body be looted. unless they want to off themselves, which should be an option and would make this state of the player unique from the unconscious state. the ability to press escape still and select respawn.

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

I'm missing a reason why this should be brought to DayZ or why it is deemed necessary. Dying is bad so we need a way to negate death, the only real penalty existent?

[gant12000 4]

I'm missing a reason why this should be brought to DayZ or why it is deemed necessary. Dying is bad so we need a way to negate death, the only real penalty existent?

because if my brother was shot in front of me, i would do all i could to try and bring him back..,so that way i dont have to listen to him bitch about being shot in the back and now he has to walk all the way from the coast and how he wishes a gut shot wasnt a death sentence when his character was starving and how i need to grab his gun for him so no one loots it... yeah

[ShinySnack 10]

A defibrillator wouldn't work. They aren't realistic enough.

Bandages stop bleeding wounds in real life. Bandages --> Stop bleeding. Somewhat realistic.

A defibrillator restarts the heart in case of an unnatural heart beat. It does NOT restart a heart that has already stopped, nor does it give blood to a victim with little blood. Defibrillator -/-> Restart heart. Defibrillator -/-> Give blood. Not realistic at all.

In other words, it would be completely unrealistic instead of reasonably realistic, like bandages.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ShinySnack

[mysticviperx 5]

A defibrillator wouldn't work. They aren't realistic enough.

Bandages stop bleeding wounds in real life. Bandages --> Stop bleeding. Somewhat realistic.

A defibrillator restarts the heart in case of an unnatural heart beat. It does NOT restart a heart that has already stopped, nor does it give blood to a victim with little blood. Defibrillator -/-> Restart heart. Defibrillator -/-> Give blood. Not realistic at all.

In other words, it would be completely unrealistic instead of reasonably realistic, like bandages.

what part in my posts states the defibrillator Gives Blood?

Again, to the "Dead is Dead" nay say'ers, I have left room for certain instances to allow the player to be totally dead. For example, you are shot at close range with a m107 .50cal Sniper round. Fine, you are dead, it doesn't matter if you have 20 defibs and you are out side a hospital. Same thing goes for head shots, or putting more rounds in the body after it goes down. But simply going to 0 blood should not mean you are totally out of the game and you need to restart. This is not a black and white suggestion, there are layers to this mechanic I would like to introduce to the game.

Edited July 18, 2012 by MysticViperX

[ShinySnack 10]

Oh, you didn't suggest that it would have to give blood. I just assumed you meant that because being dead would mean 0 blood. I guess bloodbags would work though. Regardless, people seem to think a defibrillator starts a stopped heart, which it does not do.

[jesquik 75]

I wasn't going for extreme realism, yeesh people.

On the matter of blood loss or "0 blood means you are dead", you can lose blood to a point and still be alive. The body is a wonderful thing, especially when it comes to life or death situations. I really don't want to go into what is real and what isn't. Again, the current mechanics of the game needs to be changed for a defibrillator to be added in. For those blood loss nay say'ers, I would propose that the "0 blood" indicator on the debug monitor is simply a measure of the amount of blood needed to stay conscious. Not the designator of Death.

See, I can link Wikipedia too.

And now I'm linking something else.

Pay special attention to the symptoms of "hypovolemic shock", most notably unconsciousness, that's all I'm looking for. And a complication from blood loss can be heart attack. There, now we are not just shocking the guy back to life, we are saving him.

I have never and will probably never play "Call of Modern Warfare Duty 12: Battlefield Edition", so any similarities to the game are purely your doing. I hear that game has guns, so they need to stop copying DayZ.

I simply want to add a mechanic that allows groups to stay groups and give lone banditry less appeal. I don't want to remove banditry, but I also don't want the lone sniper to be a greater force than a group of 5 well armed survivors. If added, my request is the defibrillator be a one use item, and require that the user hold position for a amount of time to prevent use of the item as a means of escape. And that the procedure consume more medical supply's than just the defib. For the sake of realism, lets add the need for other players performing first aid with the guy administering the defibrillator. The defib guy is stuck in a animation setting up the defib, if he moves then he has to start over, there has to be other guys to administer the bandage, epi-pen, blood bag, hell we will add morphine in there too. And all this has to be done while the defib is being setup, or the 60 second window for the defib to charge.

If you wish I can go into even more detail on the mechanics, including thwarting some of the bugs and glitches this mechanic may cause. More balancing concepts, and the overall affect of the game. As it has been said many times over and it will be said many times more, this game is in alpha, not all the mechanics are added or even set in stone.

Again, excellent thoughts on this. I must say that you are winning my support :)

I'll give this my +1 because it's alpha and this is the time to try things!

[mysticviperx 5]

Oh, you didn't suggest that it would have to give blood. I just assumed you meant that because being dead would mean 0 blood. I guess bloodbags would work though. Regardless, people seem to think a defibrillator starts a stopped heart, which it does not do.

I am following the rules of the forum by posting my ideas on another forum post with the same concept. Unfortunately the original author's post was severely lacking on specifics and details, something that is greatly needed on such a game changing idea.

If you read the quoted text above this post, you can see my logic for the defibrillator and the "stopped heart" argument. In terms of realism, I'm trying to stay as real as I can, in terms of game play, but I'm also trying to keep the game fun. Think of the defibrillator as a key to reviving some one, without it you cant revive them, but with it you still need to meet other criteria.

You need your dying guy

You need a guy with a defibrillator

You need at least a guy with one of all the current medical supply's

You need "time" to set up, so out in the open during a fire fight isn't going to work

A two man squad (like a spotter/sniper combo) does not become unstoppable because they have a defibrillator, and again, this isn't a all in one mechanic, it still depends on the other medical mechanics and a group mechanic. The defibrillator is also a rare commodity, and one use in my argument. Meaning, even if you are in a situation that meets the defibrillator requirements, you might not have the defibrillator or the group might choose to save it for another situation due to its rarity.

Edited July 18, 2012 by MysticViperX

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

I am not entirely sure if i would want this... but i do know that if i want this it should take a lot more than just a defibrilator shock to bring somebody back...

See i was playing with 2 mates a while back and some dumb bandit shot one of us (he was careless and saw ALICE, and just started running and shooting - so we killed him :) ) ... but he also killed one of my mates, i would have loved to try and bring him back somehow, so we didn't have to loot his body to save his stuff and then wait for him to get back... but then again, just shocking him would make no sense (i played a BF medic a lot ;) and it can create some real silly gameplay), so there should likely be some blood transfusions, adrenalin shots, bandaging, defibrilating and methadon involved...

and people saying 'well you can't bring people back once they are dead are just silly, it happens all the time, thats the whole reason for those defibrilators ;) ... but then i do agree with you that 'just a defibrilator' shouldn't be enough!

[DemonGroover 8836]

I hate to jump on but the whole 'Defibs can bring back people from the dead BS' you get from Hollywood and TV but it really gets on my tits.

A defib is a device that actually STOPS the heart when it is under cardiac arrest. The idea being that the heart hopefully begins to pump normally again instead of spasming. Defibbing someone who has no heart beat will do NOTHING. So all those medical shows are complete crap.

(gets off his high horse)

As for bringing someone back from the dead - you just have to find the Resurrection Scroll from the Wizards Tower (Green Mountain) - i thought everyone knew that!

[mysticviperx 5]

I am not entirely sure if i would want this... but i do know that if i want this it should take a lot more than just a defibrilator shock to bring somebody back...

See i was playing with 2 mates a while back and some dumb bandit shot one of us (he was careless and saw ALICE, and just started running and shooting - so we killed him :) ) ... but he also killed one of my mates, i would have loved to try and bring him back somehow, so we didn't have to loot his body to save his stuff and then wait for him to get back... but then again, just shocking him would make no sense (i played a BF medic a lot ;) and it can create some real silly gameplay), so there should likely be some blood transfusions, adrenalin shots, bandaging, defibrilating and methadon involved...

and people saying 'well you can't bring people back once they are dead are just silly, it happens all the time, thats the whole reason for those defibrilators ;) ... but then i do agree with you that 'just a defibrilator' shouldn't be enough!

I hate to jump on but the whole 'Defibs can bring back people from the dead BS' you get from Hollywood and TV but it really gets on my tits.

A defib is a device that actually STOPS the heart when it is under cardiac arrest. The idea being that the heart hopefully begins to pump normally again instead of spasming. Defibbing someone who has no heart beat will do NOTHING. So all those medical shows are complete crap.

(gets off his high horse)

As for bringing someone back from the dead - you just have to find the Resurrection Scroll from the Wizards Tower (Green Mountain) - i thought everyone knew that!

I'm not going for hyper realism, the defib is simply a device required to revive the player, who is not dead dead, but in a passed out state due to lack of blood and other bodily injury. The defib is part of a triage mechanic that would allow groups to revive players that have died under a certain set of parameters. The medical procedure to bring some one back from near death is too complex to add into the game. The defibrillator adds a plausible, and simple tool that can be used in the revive mechanic.

Edited July 19, 2012 by MysticViperX

[DemonGroover 8836]

I'm not going for hyper realism, the defib is simply a device required to revive the player, who is not dead dead, but in a passed out state due to lack of blood and other bodily injury. The defib is part of a triage mechanic that would allow groups to revive players that have died under a certain set of parameters. The medical procedure to bring some one back from near death is too complex to add into the game. The defibrillator adds a plausible, and simple tool that can be used in the revive mechanic.

Fair enough but i still like the Resurrection Scroll

[KrystoferRobin 67]

We already have a self-administered defib.

It's called Alt+F4. I hear it's all the rage amongst the CoD kids.

[ActionManZlt 160]

Regarding defib as part of a medical sequence performed by an ally -- why not just use epi-pens for this role. e.g. to revive a "dead" player, you need an ally with an epi-pen (and all the same animations, etc, previously mentioned).

Regarding the blood level when a human will become unconscious -- this is already implemented in the game as beginning 5000/12000 blood (a bit below the realistic level for cardiac arrest) and becoming extremely serious at 2000/12000 blood. And the current medical system is already designed around requiring the help of your allies (to revive you) once you're at this level of injury.