Simple Solution to Banditry

[0only1 4]

Yeah it could come either from the players or automatically from the system, coming from players makes it more hardcore but makes more sens, tho I don't know if it's possible. I have seen it coming from the server automatically, but why not.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I think the biggest flaw in all of the stop KOS/Bandits threads is that you are trying to force people into two arbitrary groups based on their behavior and interactions with other players. Player interactions will always be dynamic and there is no way to track "good" v "bad" actions with a static system. Everything is based on perception just as it is in real life, an individual or group will perceive themselves as "good" while those in competition with them will perceive them as "bad". One persons "bandit/griefier" could be another person’s security or dedicated marksman. Also any type of tracking system will mean that eventually everyone will become a bandit, especially if it is tracked by account and not life, but either way you will run into major problems trying to track kill counts in an environment that is inherently violent.

Also this is a game and players will play it as a game, the majority of actions will be dictated by what a player believes will maximize their reward. In a WROL scenario with direct competition over resources this means they will kill each other for loot. I for one think this is fairly close to a "real" scenario, without society to control people they revert to the animals they are. This will never change; the only thing that restores a semblance of normal behavior is the return of society. This can even be seen in small groups, grouped players are choosing to give up some of their rewards to gain other advantages, that is the definition of society. But because there are a limited number of external advantages and the Environment (Infected) does not dictate a certain size Groups will remain as small as possible to maximize all of the member's rewards. This won't change either, dependent on a player’s values they will join a group that maximizes their reward (Fun), thus group size will be determined by what players want to do in game, and this is controlled by what features exist that provide players choices. This is why I am for leaving everything open as players are then free to do whatever they like and seek out like minded individuals to pursue their endeavors.

I do think there needs to be skins added to the game if large groups are going to be encouraged, and I think there needs to be more actions added to the game for thriving groups to take up. You can only horde so much.

I play with a group of up to ten players; most of them have been met through playing dayz. There have been some bad seeds met in game but that’s life, I would not trade all of the interactions we've had for any mechanic that allowed me to identify people or their intentions on sight it would eliminate to much of the fun.

In short download a voice client, sign up for a clan/group, or go look of friendlys next time you die. Gear is for one life finding a group or another player will last way longer so its worth the effort if you’re playing alone.

TLDR

You can't arbitrarily group players with a static tracking mechanic when all player interactions are dynamic.

WROL scenarios revert people to the "State of Nature" and induce direct competition.

It’s a game people will always min/max and play to their advantage.

The only solution should be more end game content for groups.

Edited July 16, 2012 by xXI Mr Two IXx

[Vipeax 318]

The first part was an interesting read, after that it became just another "I hate this playstyle, nerf it through the ground and hammer on it till none wants to be part of it".

See what I wrote here today:

http://dayzmod.com/f..._40#entry331116

Only make a survivor don the bandit skin when they shoot first (discontinued idea, see below). Do this on the first kill, no exceptions. If you choose to shoot first, the consequence is that you get a bandit skin.

What if there is a group of 5 people, 3 have this "bandit skin" (which as you should know going by the sources that you used, isn't likely to come back) and 2 don't (yet?). Do you shoot all 5? You become a bandit, you shoot only those 3? You die.

Now for the bandit skin itself, make them noticeable! Add a red headband on them, give them some sort of marking that doesn't go away, even when they wear a ghille suit.

As far as this part, read the post I linked at the start of this post and this one: http://dayzmod.com/f...it/#entry269347

If you watched the Rezzed stream you'd have heard the idea regarding blood. THIS would actually make it obvious that you have no issues killing people, but at the same time you aren't stuck as one as you can just hide in less populated area for an hour/hours till it's gone. Appearing as a certain role, while not intended is a major issue with changes that make you appear as someone who likes to hunt people down.

[0only1 4]

I agree with what you said and I believe that players need reasons to prefer long term benefits instead of short term deathmatch fun. That's the only way, everyone should be allowed to chose what playstyle he prefers.

[Fry (DayZ) 4]

People riding around in buses handing out supplies in major cities doesn't sound like a zombie apocalypse to me. I actually prefer the game the way it is, with all the inherent dangers from both bandits and zombies. I don't always shoot first when I see another player, I just shoot when I need to. I don't want to be penalized for surviving at any cost in a game where survival is your main objective. I don't want other players to immediately be recognizable as combatants either, I want to make that judgment call for myself. The game right now is so open ended and undefined that adding arbitrary goals and markings for players would only serve to stifle the gameplay. Just reading the forums seems like everyone wants to turn this game into something that it isn't, and change the fundamental dynamics that make this game fun. If you want goals and rewards, rpg-style stats, karma, and forced friendly cooperation, take a break from DayZ and go back to W.o.W. for a while. Then when you're ready to do what it takes to survive, come back and play DayZ.

[Badhaggis 40]

Yeah don't neft bandits and KoS but intoduce reasons not to that arn't just automatic boosts to survivors, ie higher chance of finding stuff.

[Capercaillie 16]

Alive characters: 489,886

Bandits alive: 87,707

I see we have a massive bandit problem, 17,9% of the players currently alive are bandits.

If you can't understand what this means, here it is in a simple way:

In Day Z, in a group of 100 players there are ~18 bandits and 82 survivors.

Now if these 82 survivors can't handle these 18 bandits, maybe the survivors should consider looking in the mirror and thinking "what is it that I do wrong?".

Or maybe, you should just simply change to another game that is more forgiving to players who actually can't or don't want to adapt. Maybe Day Z really isn't for you.

Oh, and this game is DEFINITELY dying out as the following statistic proves

------------------------------------

Players in last 24h: 146,506

------------------------------------

Pretty nice for an alpha/beta stage game. Too bad it is obviously dying out because of the mindless banditry...

You know the simple little phrase repeated all around the internet gaming communities:

"l2p"

I guess you know what it means too. I mean, it is an old and perhaps TOO widely used phrase, but I think there IS something reasonable behind it.

[zzSTABBYzz 9]

I got an idea that might be cool.

If servers could have information and stats of the players, let's say you press "I" and get to the info panel where you could see As well with other things, sth like the most wanted players of the server and some info about where they have been last scene or how do they look like or sth idk.

not to boost my own post or anything but read this http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/34702-bandit-punishment-or-reasons-to-player-kill-u-deside/ it maybe on the lines of what ppl want or hate as ppl have been replying to it lol

[soapmak3r 677]

This thread lied to me...It said simple solution, then it went on to expect me to read a freaking essay...

Simple = short, clear and concise

[Badhaggis 40]

What i love about these threads is that suddenly bandits turn up and start complaining about being the persecuted minority, we are only 14.8% of the population, we are using our freedom, it's my right to shoot new players in the head repeatedly...

[zzSTABBYzz 9]

What i love about these threads is that suddenly bandits turn up and start complaining about being the persecuted minority, we are only 14.8% of the population, we are using our freedom, it's my right to shoot new players in the head repeatedly...

amen

[Vipeax 318]

And that outweights the other 85.2% wanting to trample the other style of play? Not really a helping statement.

[Badhaggis 40]

Again I don't actually mind proper banditry, where someone is activly trying to use an intresting play style, it's the people who think KoS is all the game is about which gets on my nerves.

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

If you watched the Rezzed stream you'd have heard the idea regarding blood. THIS would actually make it obvious that you have no issues killing people, but at the same time you aren't stuck as one as you can just hide in less populated area for an hour/hours till it's gone. Appearing as a certain role, while not intended is a major issue with changes that make you appear as someone who likes to hunt people down.

I like this idea, but think that the more bodies you search the longer and the more blood should stay on you, and maybe even at some point it should stay on forever and your complete set of clothes stained with it.

Like that you're either a 'Vulture' or a bandit and should be dealt with cautiously.

[Vipeax 318]

It's been mentioned plenty of times that it is a subject on which a lot of time is spent figuring out solutions/features to support the situation, but nailing everyone, even if lured into it by accident, is not the solution. People who played this mod originally will know the very early moments with people openly discussing their location in side chat. You had bandits spam in caps that they were friendly and only turned into a bandit by defending themselves, THAT is a major flaw of at least 9 out of 10 suggestions on the DayZ forums. From this topic the first part was good, the latter was just the same issue with a different appearance.

I like this idea, but think that the more bodies you search the longer and the more blood should stay on you, and maybe even at some point it should stay on forever and your complete set of clothes stained with it.

Like that you're either a 'Vulture' or a bandit and should be dealt with cautiously.

Well yes, there has to be a difference between someone who killed 10 people in 1 hour and then stayed calm for another (to appear normal again) and someone who killed 2 people, of which 1 had blood on their hands and 1 did not and then doesn't touch anyone for a day or even a week. Together with the other changes (IE veteran appearance) this would add for a nice mix.

[kovalhuk 19]

And that outweights the other 85.2% wanting to trample the other style of play? Not really a helping statement.

Amen.

:( I am a bandit and i have the rights to shoot in 85,2% other's faces. :(

What people call banditry i call pvp. I look to you, i fell my finger scratching, then i shoot your face.

I invest one bullet and my profit is beans, ammo and cool stuff. :beans: :beans: :beans: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Hide yourself better next time. ;)

It's a zombie apocalypse

thank you,

[rkc 0]

The thing that I have seen the most on these forums is "People choose to kill others in order to survive" well I have to call bs hardcore on this one. I have yet to die in game due to zeds because it's always been by other players. Ok just got to make this statement, I am not complaining I am just stating a simple fact. Every time I have been killed I have had either no weapon (got unlucky walking across a field to town), had a melee weapon, or didn't have a sight on the other player. Out of all these times I have not really had anything worth looting that you could not get from a building around me, I've seen new players dead on beaches all their original equipment on them.

If players were killing to survive they would kill zombies and rummage through buildings since that is where all the equipment to survive is. Players kill players just to kill.

Quote below...... sir the decisions that we make on a normal basis to survive is shoot a zed and rummage through somebodies house. The options bandits make are shoot other players, steal their equipment that you could get from the building you are sitting on top of, boost your player kills.

Quote from OrionMaxx: There are many situations in which people are required to do things they wouldn't on a normal basis and they may not be proud of those choices but they had to do what they needed to, to survive.

There is no need for teamwork in this game though. You could run around with no weapon whatsoever and survive off the food, water, meds you pick up. That is the problem.

[Vipeax 318]

The thing that I have seen the most on these forums is "People choose to kill others in order to survive" well I have to call bs hardcore on this one. I have yet to die in game due to zeds because it's always been by other players. Ok just got to make this statement, I am not complaining I am just stating a simple fact. Every time I have been killed I have had either no weapon (got unlucky walking across a field to town), had a melee weapon, or didn't have a sight on the other player. Out of all these times I have not really had anything worth looting that you could not get from a building around me, I've seen new players dead on beaches all their original equipment on them.

Please keep in mind that in order to become a bandit you have to get a low humanity. Your humanity rises both from time and giving blood bags. The fact that people don't trust each other is something that both the community and the game can work on. Going by all the latest Q&A interviews I think it's fair to say that some system to make it easier to communicate with friends is likely to happen, at the same time 2 people not trusting each other is an entirely different issue and situation over people who only play to murder. If you are a person who plays this game to kill people, you WILL become a bandit as you will hit way beyond the minimum # of kills required in a certain time frame if you try to hunt people down.

The low bandit numbers don't indicate that you can roam around freely and have a +60% chance of not being shot, what they do indicate is that over 60% isn't in the game to murder everyone they see 1 to 2 miles ahead, which I think is a fair indication that banditry is not an issue, trust is.

Also, the number of dead people on the beach is increased a lot by people respawning when they see they are too far from their destination for their liking. The system with blood bags is a preferred one. You also see people looking for Morphine help for their legs. There should indeed be more systems in place that promote helping each other. It is however hard to get an action to help both sides. Say you meet up together at the beach (both without weapons obviously). You enter a town and see a shotgun and a rifle. Do you trust the other and let him grab the other or do you try to jump on 1 of them asap and kill the other before he picks up the other weapon.

[CHOSENMARINE 43]

Well, something does need to be done to try and eliminate the shoot on sight that has been happening. But I think the main problem is that people are scared. people like myself want to help others, but in the back of my mind I know he's holding a rifle that can cause me serious pain, very easily. Unfortunately, that concept will ALWAYS be there, but there are some other things that can be done to ease player contact.

Communication is key. Many players don't know how to use chat, or maybe they don't care? But communication always people to establish their intentions. I have made contact with many players that never spoke a word, and I can tell you, it's very frustrating. You don't know if the person is a bandit or survivor or what!

I think there should be something done so that players (especially new ones) know exactly how to use communication. Maybe every time you spawn there is a quick message at the top of the scree that says how to communicate, and which channels to use.

For OP's idea, I think it's good.There should be a way to tell if someone is a bandit quit easily. And it should be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more easy to become one. Two murders will make you a bandit. I'm saying this because I have had to kill players in self defence, and achieving vengeance on friends, yet the kills were considered murders. But on the other hand, there are situations where a murder may be necessary for survival. I do like your idea.

Edited July 16, 2012 by CHOSENMARINE

[Badhaggis 40]

There are problems with every approach, personally i would say the blood idea is quite cool, and IMHO side chat, although unrealistic, still helps foster a fealing of community because without it people will simply use outside programs which leads to a feeling of being insular and isolated.

[Badhaggis 40]

Amen.

:( I am a bandit and i have the rights to shoot in 85,2% other's faces. :(

What people call banditry i call pvp. I look to you, i fell my finger scratching, then i shoot your face.

I invest one bullet and my profit is beans, ammo and cool stuff. :beans: :beans: :beans: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Hide yourself better next time. ;)

It's a zombie apocalypse

thank you,

The problem is that most bandit kills will end up being newbies because

A) no weapons to fight back with

B ) Bandages and whatever they have picked up

C)unlikley to know what to do when confronted by a bandit or indeed another survivor.

which leads to newbies assuming that to survive you simply KoS, which makes the game significantly less intresting. BTW the "it's a zombie appolypse" excuse is nonsense does anyone seriously believe that when the entire world has been overun with the undead, people will be wandering about looking for other live humans to kill.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Badhaggis

[KrystoferRobin 67]

Those of us that see murder counts as grey area due to the dynamic way player interaction works tend to offer up far less punishment/nerf suggestions. Bandits scream "STOP FUCKING UP MY GAME" and carebears cry "THEY KEEP SHOOTING ME FOR MY BEANS".

I have outright murdered the fuck out of a guy for his food, and I have selflessly put my life down for a stranger. I have been both a hero and villian. I've had to stare a guy down and make the choice to shoot first and survive, or hope he lowers his weapon. If we segregate the players into bitches and bosses, you'll still have bitches crying about getting bossed, and bosses bitching about bitches crying about bosses. It has been said again and again, punishments are unjustified here. encouraging teamwork, of any kind, is key to reducing the gratuitous kill on sight mentality. Notice I say encouraging TEAMWORK, not rewarding survivors/bandits. For that to work and function, we'll need a framework with which to designate our own, dynamic groups. In other games this is often a party system. The more successful your party, the more rewards you will reap. Balancing those rewards so they are merely incentive and not solid goals is the problem. It could be as subtle as adjusting the loot spawn to toss a few more mags that match the gear carried by the party, or a slight increase in the drop rate of the harder to find tools. No promises, just slightly improved odds. Perhaps a special set of clothing that can be morphed into a selection of different, non faction/identifying forms simply for their style appeal. No bandit/survivor specific stuff, just something to make yourself stand out a bit more, giving you a more solid identity. And again, here's where it gets tricky.... are these special clothes lootable, or do they 1 off change your character model and upon death are lost to the void. Some would consider that punishing the lonewolf style players, since they would have no way to get a cool stetson and duster without playing in a way they don't enjoy or like.

This debate/discussion could go on forever, but at it's heart it comes down to a very simple matter of encouraging teamwork as a viable alternative.

The good news... YOU CAN DO THIS RIGHT NOW. No further development required. Would it be aided with things like a party system, and perhaps some way to reconnect with friends when you inevitably die? Absolutely. I think as the various bugs and exploits are 1 by 1 squashed and corrected, team-oriented playstyles will evolve on their own. Exploits like alt-f4 on engagement are doing far worse things to this mod than any sort of OMFGITMOVEDKILLIT mentality.

TL:DR - Punish no playstyle, only offer incentives to balance predominate trends by providing viable, desirable alternatives.

Edited July 16, 2012 by KrystoferRobin

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

The problem is that most bandit kills will end up being newbies because

If newbies were being slaughtered so readily, then the recent massive influx of new players we have seen would have caused murder rates to skyrocket.

Instead, they have fallen as a percentage of overall deaths.

Most serious PvPers do not bother with new players because they have no worthwhile loot and the southern coast is ridiculously dangerous. Nobody wants to give up an M249 w/ 1200 rounds, NVGs and a GPS to some lack-wit with a Winchester who just happened to come around the corner at the right time.

So I think the notion that newbies are being targeted is a bit of a myth. You have the random bored sniper hitting Cherno or Elektro, but for the most part PvP takes place around helo crashes, Stary Sobor, the NWAF and other high-value northern locations. Hospitals are a bit of a mess because even veterans need to hit those once in awhile to keep a steady supply of morphine, but again most smart ones hit-and-run and don't stick around looking for Beanatas to pop.

Edited July 16, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Badhaggis 40]

TBH what tends to happen ( in my experiance is ) Bandits kill people in the north for a while, getting military equimpment, cars and weapons. Game becomes dull due to lack of things to do as zombies can be ignored or blown to bits, Bandits go south again and kill everyone for shits and giggles, repeat.

And BTW i think this needs repeating, there is no longer any reason to not have side chat as people are just using outside teamspeak and the like.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Badhaggis

[zipper 69]

And BTW i think this needs repeating, there is no longer any reason to not have side chat as people are just using outside teamspeak and the like.

This is illogical.

We may as well have auto aim turned on because there are people using 3rd party hacking programs that use aim bots.

/s

Doesn't make much sense does it?