So Ladies and Gentlemen, regarding this:

[DoshDosh 62]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/dayz-dev-terrified-making-changes

Dean "Rocket" Hall, the developer behind DayZ, admits that making updates to his zombie-infested ArmA II mod is "terrifying" because he can't be sure how the game's rabid community will react if things go wrong.

It's ridiculous that the community's gotten to the point. If we're going to be like the Diablo III community, we might as well give up.

Wouldn't be a bad thing to just shut the fuck up sometimes and stop being so entitled, since none of us are actually developing this damn game. Despite all the bugs the game's always been awesome, is awesome and will be awesome if we don't act so spoiled.

I'd be completely comfortable with Rocket just giving naysayers the finger and doing what he wants, because he shouldn't have to be afraid of his own damn community.

[Sgt Abraham Ford 82]

"Liked" but out for the day.

[LT.Sacred 9]

Honestly, I agree.

Edited July 14, 2012 by LT.Sacred

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

It's ridiculous that the community's gotten to the point.

Yes, ridiculous. Also, completely expected, 100% inevitable, and rather encouraging for the future of the game. To have so many people so rabidly devoted, hanging on every update and some of whom are inevitably disappointed when things don't land in specifically they way they had imagined for the game, it implies an active community and a growing, fervent fan base.

Beyond that, what difference does it make that there's rabid hype and disagreements? So long as you trust rocket and the team he builds to make the right decisions about what to do and who to listen to and who to ignore, it's all just signal vs. noise.

If you don't trust him to make that distinction, then you probably shouldn't be playing the game anyway because he's the one steering the boat. He's got the helm. It doesn't matter what the rabble shout at him he's the one who sets the course and if he runs us aground it will be no fault but his own, but I think most of us are pretty confident he's on course to discover some new territory and set up shop there.

Edited July 14, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[MichaeLK 16]

there are too many spoiled brats around and of all ages unfortunately.I agree with you completely and hope to

one day see such a community

BUT unfortunately I might not be able to witness such a thing in this life...

[DoshDosh 62]

Yes, ridiculous. Also, completely expected, 100% inevitable, and rather encouraging for the future of the game. To have so many people so rabidly devoted, hanging on every update and some of whom are inevitably disappointed when things don't land in specifically they way they had imagined for the game, it implies an active community and a growing, fervent fan base.

Beyond that, what difference does it make that there's rabid hype and disagreements? So long as you trust rocket and the team he builds to make the right decisions about what to do and who to listen to and who to ignore, it's all just signal vs. noise.

If you don't trust him to make that distinction, then you probably shouldn't be playing the game anyway because he's the one steering the boat. He's got the helm. It doesn't matter what the rabble shout at him he's the one who sets the course and if he runs us aground it will be no fault of his own but I think most of us are pretty confident he's on course to discover some new territory and set up shop there.

Actually, if you've noticed some of Rocket's messages on Reddit, he's pretty uncertain about the entire thing himself. I say that's a good thing, and everybody loves constructive criticism, but you only have to go into the suggestions and general chat subforums and scroll around a bit to see what they mean in the article. Hell the Diablo III community pretty much trashed itself, and continues to do so now- it would just be nice if something like that didn't ruin this, because it's awesome.

[EvoX (DayZ) 5]

Agree...

It's not like we are paying for the Mod, or even developing it.

Ppl need to start thinking that they are lucky that someone is actually developing this mod.

"He" deserves a little respect.

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

I'd be completely comfortable with Rocket just giving naysayers the finger and doing what he wants, because he shouldn't have to be afraid of his own damn community.

i want to agree with this, but it's good for people to hear different points of view. i do think he should ignore the unconstructive abusive bitch posts though. ultimately there's no way to please everyone, and the denizens of the internet tend to have terrible social skills. it's a hell of a lot easier to be reactionary and impatient than it is to be calm and patient.

also, as zdb has pointed out, the rabid nature of people here is an indicator of how awesome day z is in practice and concept, and how dependent they are on it.

[KWilt 157]

Don't really see what the problem is.

If any dev were to piss off the community to the point that it drives a large majority of it away, I don't see why rocket shouldn't feel any different.

Hell, he has the right to be even more afraid than most because his game isn't even meant to be easy. He's gotta strike that balance of ease and keeping with the plan. He could just go full-on hardcore, but then he loses his alpha testers. He loses his alpha testers, and he loses his game's growth. The game's growth halts, and suddenly, all the work he's put into it is for naught.

So... what's the point of this topic?

[Knautscher 4]

[...] he's the one steering the boat. He's got the helm. It doesn't matter what the rabble shout at him he's the one who sets the course and if he runs us aground it will be no fault of his own but I think most of us are pretty confident he's on course to discover some new territory and set up shop there.

Nice metaphor. ALL HANDS ON DECK! SET SAIL FOR THE NEW WORLD!

[DoshDosh 62]

Don't really see what the problem is.

If any dev were to piss off the community to the point that it drives a large majority of it away, I don't see why rocket shouldn't feel any different.

Hell, he has the right to be even more afraid than most because his game isn't even meant to be easy. He's gotta strike that balance of ease and keeping with the plan. He could just go full-on hardcore, but then he loses his alpha testers. He loses his alpha testers, and he loses his game's growth. The game's growth halts, and suddenly, all the work he's put into it is for naught.

So... what's the point of this topic?

Considering a lot of the changes, Rocket's been listening to feedback since day 1, and nobody said he should feel special.

Sure you could leave all of it to him and just sit around and complain when things don't end up the way you want it to, like it has in some other great gaming communities, but if the player community can improve itself to help with the process instead of just sit around and QQ, there's no possible way that would hurt development. Yeah, rabid communities can be a good sign for a mod's popularity, but they say that about COD and D3. I'm pretty sure we don't want to be roped in with them, especially considering the fact that this whole thing is based on a mod, not some high budget retail product.

[Darc 3]

Don't really see what the problem is.

If any dev were to piss off the community to the point that it drives a large majority of it away, I don't see why rocket shouldn't feel any different.

Hell, he has the right to be even more afraid than most because his game isn't even meant to be easy. He's gotta strike that balance of ease and keeping with the plan. He could just go full-on hardcore, but then he loses his alpha testers. He loses his alpha testers, and he loses his game's growth. The game's growth halts, and suddenly, all the work he's put into it is for naught.

So... what's the point of this topic?

Actually he states in the Gamebreaker.tv interview that his development cycle was faster with fewer people. You don't need 500,000 people to Alpha test...

And in a way, that really is the problem. Seeing what Rocket has in planning for the mod, one can see it truly is just in alpha. However, it does not have the player-base of an Alpha, and at times it can seem like a fully fleshed out game. People expect too much from it.

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

Don't really see what the problem is.

If any dev were to piss off the community to the point that it drives a large majority of it away, I don't see why rocket shouldn't feel any different.

Hell, he has the right to be even more afraid than most because his game isn't even meant to be easy. He's gotta strike that balance of ease and keeping with the plan. He could just go full-on hardcore, but then he loses his alpha testers. He loses his alpha testers, and he loses his game's growth. The game's growth halts, and suddenly, all the work he's put into it is for naught.

So... what's the point of this topic?

i think the point is that rocket shouldn't be terrorized by the hostility of the community to the point that he can't move the experiment forward. one of the core philosophies behind this whole thing that's made it different is that he wants to have a dialogue with the community about the game. but everytime he tries something, everyone instead just hates on him instead of trying to be helpful or patient(are those two things really so hard?) with the whole thing. it's probably pretty demoralizing i'd imagine.

[wolfstriked 143]

Its an experiment for now.;)

[KWilt 157]

Considering a lot of the changes, Rocket's been listening to feedback since day 1, and nobody said he should feel special.

Sure you could leave all of it to him and just sit around and complain when things don't end up the way you want it to, like it has in some other great gaming communities, but if the player community can improve itself to help with the process instead of just sit around and QQ, there's no possible way that would hurt development. Yeah, rabid communities can be a good sign for a mod's popularity, but they say that about COD and D3. I'm pretty sure we don't want to be roped in with them, especially considering the fact that this whole thing is based on a mod, not some high budget retail product.

Well, that's the problem. I'm not against working with the community. But it's not exactly news-worthy that he should be scared about pissing us off, and that's the point I'm making.

Actually he states in the Gamebreaker.tv interview that his development cycle was faster with fewer people. You don't need 500,000 people to Alpha test...

And in a way, that really is the problem. Seeing what Rocket has in planning for the mod, one can see it truly is just in alpha. However, it does not have the player-base of an Alpha, and at times it can seem like a fully fleshed out game. People expect too much from it.

Oh, I agree. Which is why I think opening the alpha to the public was a silly idea. But rocket chose, and he can just as easily choose to stop releasing updates if he'd like. It's not like he has to kill the servers or anything. People can continue to submit bug reports, and PR can give updates as to how the development is coming.

Maybe release bigger updates at longer intervals, doing as I said above, or whatever. It's all on rocket's call. Stopping updating won't piss off the game. Stopping the game altogether (which I really, really don't think he'd do) is what would.

i think the point is that rocket shouldn't be terrorized by the hostility of the community to the point that he can't move the experiment forward. one of the core philosophies behind this whole thing that's made it different is that he wants to have a dialogue with the community about the game. but everytime he tries something, everyone instead just hates on him instead of trying to be helpful or patient(are those two things really so hard?) with the whole thing. it's probably pretty demoralizing i'd imagine.

Well, that's his first problem. If he's terrorized by hostility, I don't think he's ready for a big project like this. (No offense to rocket. Seriously.) First rule to working with something this big is you have to shrug off those insults and death threats, and let things roll.

Sure, we'll get a million and one topics about a change very patch. But that's because a majority of our community is a little lead-headed. They come, post a few posts, then run off back to silently complaining about the game most of the time. But that doesn't mean an equal amount of people will hate him for it.

For example, I kinda disliked the buff to zombies in 1.7.2. Did I cry, whine, complain, and demand a change back? Fuck no. I said 'rocket knows best', because if he feels it will work, then maybe he doesn't have all of the systems in-game yet to complete his idea.

But then you have these dozens of topics and suggestions every day to punish bandits, which is the complete opposite of my actions. rocket has come out, saying he doesn't want to punish bandits, and I'm cool with that. Not because I'm a bandit, but because I would hope he has other, more ingenious, ways to solve the 'bandit problem'. So, this is just the community not listening to the developer at all.

As it is, as Darc mentioned above, half of these players don't have an alpha-mindset. It's not a problem we can really fix at all, but shouting alpha isn't helping. (Something I'd really like to see the community stop doing on every topic except the occasional bug that's been addressed or expected.) The point is, the community isn't really against rocket at this point. We're more-so against each other more often than not.

EDIT: As I guess I didn't really address this, I think it is quintessential for rocket to listen to us, and talk to us. But I don't want him too feel like he has to always follow our judgments or suffer our wrath. As I said, as long as he sticks to the plan, I guarantee 95% of us will still be hanging around.

Edited July 14, 2012 by KWilt

[w_epley 37]

I do empathize with rocket a lot, this is by far the worst gaming community I've ever seen. In game and on the forums. Don't get me wrong, there a lot of great people I have met just by playing day z. But on the forums, literally everyday, people say, rocket, why this, why that, your mod sucks, or the mods broken. I've never seen such consolidated hate, anguish, and illegitimate frustration in one place until I started playing this mod.

My hypothesis, which obviously doesn't require much thought, is that dayz has brought (gamers and even more trolls) from every walk of gaming life. Making this centrafude a multi-cultural melting pot of a vast array of of gamers. Most of the new people that never played arma, bitch about its weak points, (learning curve on controls and concept, physics, etc), then they have to deal with bugginess of a mod still in an early development stage. For veteran arma players, the bugs are not a big deal IMHO, because most every mod that gets released(for arma) gets released as an alpha or a beta, so people can immediately start enjoying it.

I believe that 75% of this community are good, but they have been exposed to so much negativity in game and on the forums that they themselves have fell victim to troll like habits (including myself). The 25% of the community that consist of the apathetic ignorant turds, the hackers, the turds that just murder in game just bring up a little ticker are the ones that caused an epidemic of overall apathy and sarcastic trollism.

Don't get me wrong, I've murdered my share of players. But every time I killed someone there was a rhyme to the reason (gear, vehicle, self-defense). I love the pvp. But I see all of these videos of players with .50s just sniping. This is part of the negative epidemic.

All I know is, I cut myself a little slice of the dayz community with a few good players, try to stay positive, and not fall victim to mass apathetic rage that has plagued this community.

[Ankhenaten 111]

Success is stressful ..

http://www.nytimes.c...e/15baboon.html

Rocket needs to know his exit strategy, so this mod will be a success on his CV.

Personally I love it, even when I am frustrated sometimes. With so many player it is already a success. It made money for BI, they will see it as a success, I hope.

The whole alpha thing might get problematic, as some might hope that something imaginary in their head might pop up and the ones that like it as it, will not like changes.

On the plus side, each new update gets you a newish game. :thumbsup:

I think normal companies go for polls and statistics, to decide what the majority of customers want. :)

[Ankhenaten 111]

I do empathize with rocket a lot, this is by far the worst gaming community I've ever seen.

If your target audience is largely male gamers from 5 - 55 who like to blast each other virtual bullets in the head and annoy others with wires and soon bear traps, in a totally anti design game, what do you expect?

You get a cross section of people from nice to arseholey. Ultimately corporate relations waffle has developed to deal with the ugly masses. Community relations managers make sense to deal with us. A Mod can't deliver this and will get stressful for the creator with such a large audience.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[Johnggernaut 5]

Not to sound like an ass, but the OP sounds a bit holier than thou.

Wouldn't be a bad thing to just shut the fuck up sometimes and stop being so entitled, since none of us are actually developing this damn game. Despite all the bugs the game's always been awesome, is awesome and will be awesome if we don't act so spoiled.

I'd be completely comfortable with Rocket just giving naysayers the finger and doing what he wants, because he shouldn't have to be afraid of his own damn community.

You're not better than anyone else because you think the community is speaking out. From everything I've read, Rocket seems like the kind of developer that wants to give us the game we want, while keeping his vision. He has the power to decide what is a valid concern or idea and I'd bet he wants us to continue to speak up about what we want or don't want.

And if someone speaks out of line, trolls or is just a complete ass, well, I've seen a few members get banned.

I'm not saying you're not entitled to this opinion, but I am saying that the judgmental attitude of your post makes me think you're a Lemming (no offense) in the sense that you're just going to sit back and do whatever, and if Rocket makes a change you don't like you'll sit there and take it, not enjoying it. I'm pretty sure Rocket wants to know what we do and do not enjoy.

Hoping you don't take offense to this other side of the coin you flipped.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Johnggernaut

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

Well, that's his first problem. If he's terrorized by hostility, I don't think he's ready for a big project like this. (No offense to rocket. Seriously.) First rule to working with something this big is you have to shrug off those insults and death threats, and let things roll.

i don't think he ever anticipated this being a big project honestly. the player growth for this mod has been outright insane. probably adds to the shock/terror quite a bit. as i said before though, is it really so hard for the community to have a little patience and be less reactionary when new things are added or old things are taken away?

[KWilt 157]

i don't think he ever anticipated this being a big project honestly. the player growth for this mod has been outright insane. probably adds to the shock/terror quite a bit. as i said before though, is it really so hard for the community to have a little patience and be less reactionary when new things are added or old things are taken away?

Oh no, it's not hard for them to do it. But it's just easier for them to bitch and moan about it, then act like it's the end of the world.

I'm not sure how long 'it's an alpha' has been circulating around the forums as the go-to answer, but it's really hard to get the point across when:

1. A majority of the people here have never tested an alpha, so they have no clue what to expect or what it even means, and
   
2. DayZ isn't exactly your 'traditional alpha' (lacking regular resets, very little 'throw-it-in-and-see-what-breaks', the massive number of alpha testers, et cetera).
   

And that's the problem with making 'it's an alpha' the go-to answer. It's kinda like just saying 'red line' to a doodler. Just because it's the answer to their problem, doesn't mean they understand the answer at all, or how important it is.

Edited July 14, 2012 by KWilt

[magicbus 0]

Reference to Diablo III community lolz! i hope we arnt that bad. I noticed after 1.7.2 that half the freaking servers dont update anyway? is this the 'rabit community' refusing to update or is half the community clueless?

[Swiv (DayZ) 0]

This all seems a bit sensationalized to me for the sake of doing a story on something getting a lot of press right now. He sounded more guarded than anything, and that's probably a good place to be.

I'm probably pushing the limits of poetic license here, but I can't imagine what the Mona Lisa would have turned out like had da Vinci had to deal with 500,000 squaking smacktards anonymously dropping him suggestions as he was painting. Rocket gives me the impression he knows when to turn around and tell them to shut up and let him paint. As long as he keeps making his game, I have no doubt it'll turn out. If it really could all go up at the drop of a patch, then it'd be much like the game itself in a meta sort of way. I suspect everyone would take their death and start over on the beach with a flash light.