Players going insane on too many player kills

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

You BEING a threat and them THINKING you might be one is just the same.

And devolving to personal attacks doesn't help you prove a point Sir.

[SillySil 295]

Am I a threat running around cherno freshly spawned without any weapon? Am I a threat being 500 meters away and running in opposite direction?

And is the law seriously the only thing stopping you from killing everyone on sight except your friends?

And it wasn't an insult I'm trying to make you use your braincells since you seem to think that shooting everyone you see and trusting everyone completely are the only two options.

The reason why it's "free for all deathmatch unless you know the person" is that there is no penalty for it, while in real life people (at least a part of them) aren't psychopaths and actually have a conscience which we lack in video games because nobody cares what frags feel. You want this to be more realistic, add the thing we lack in game, conscience.

Edited July 14, 2012 by SillySil

[Eza (DayZ) 11]

Punishing player killing = NO

Everyone is entitled to play the game they want.

To go completely backwards, why don't we implement a system that punishes players for killing zombies? Didn't think so.

because punishing for zombie kills doesn´t make sense like this does. And firing at zombie is pretty much punishment itself, as theres good chance you´ll get entire town after you, and gunfire will give players near you hint of your location.

I like idea of random laughters and maybe little uncontrollable movement, but suicide and random firing is too much. I don´t know about hallucinations though, it´d be hard to implement in game, and this game already has enough bugs and desyncs.

EDIT: however, I dont like the idea if random laughter affects noise meter, it´d be better if random laughter would only be heard by other players, giving maybe a bit warning who they are dealing with.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Eza

[John (DayZ) 62]

The only way to deal with banditry is to form groups of vigilantes, hunt their asses down and hand them back to them.

Wouldn't that just make you a bandit?

Also, you're all mistaken about zombie/player killing side effects. When you hold right click, your character holds his breath; if you hold it long enough, he'll eventually let it out in one quick exhalation, and be winded for a moment. If you're in a firefight and moving about, cover to cover, your character becomes winded. Shooting another player or a zombie does not affect your character at all right now.

[enforcer1975 1111]

This is not about law or the absence or it. If a person can't handle killing a person or having killed a person is what's it about, even a person trained to do so feels something but is trained to suppress it but for how long? Even WW2 vets carry the burden of having killed people because they had no choice but they try to live with it. Of course some are trainied and we are "allmighty internet 1337 sniper über one man army players", but i would say it can and should be be part of the "human experiment" Rocket always claims this mod to be because you are beeing a person out there in the game not some psychopatic "i can kill everyone because i feel so and don't feel anything but recoil" kind of guy. Pvp is part of the game but there have to be some personal/psychological consequences for killing either intended or in self defense, because you can't feel it because you are sitting in front of you pc doesn't mean the character or even yourself wouldn't feel anything in case this happens to you in real life zombie apocalypse or not.

[Eza (DayZ) 11]

ALTHOUGH, if those hallucinations were like paranoid, imaginary noises only you hear, that´d be really cool.

Imagine yourself, bandit, at cherno department, you start to hear footsteps. Sounds like next prey! you wait and listen footsteps get closer to you, he/she is right behind corner, you´re already wondering what loot you´ll get...

then there´s nobody. then you laugh like maniac to your silliness.

Really nice idea!

[Eza (DayZ) 11]

This idea is terrible, I sincerely hope people stop suggesting ways to punish certain playstyles. I mean, I don't even play bandit and I think this is stupid.

it´s not about punishment. it´s about immersion.

last time I checked people wanted this to be realistic, hard, simulator-ish.

title makes sense, not all but some what he suggested makes sense.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

ALTHOUGH, if those hallucinations were like paranoid, imaginary noises only you hear, that´d be really cool.

Imagine yourself, bandit, at cherno department, you start to hear footsteps. Sounds like next prey! you wait and listen footsteps get closer to you, he/she is right behind corner, you´re already wondering what loot you´ll get...

then there´s nobody. then you laugh like maniac to your silliness.

Really nice idea!

Yes but that's not what "they" want, they want something that will cripple you.

[John (DayZ) 62]

Also, why is nobody bringing up the obvious fact that the social make-up of society very drastically changes during apocalyptic events - or, presumably? There have been a thousand novels, television shows, films, and comic books about this very subject. Do the laws of society apply when society collapses? Do morality and immorality mean anything in the "jungle"? What is it, exactly, that makes us human?

We cannot presume to conjecture what a human would or would not feel in a purely hypothetical situation. Sure, you might feel bad about murdering another human being - or maybe you felt it was the only way to keep yourself alive. Survival is a very, very powerful coping mechanism. Many people will do awful things in the wild, only to lament them upon their return to society - but what happens when there is no return to society? No time to think about what you've done? Our characters are in an almost perpetually kinetic state. They have no time for philosophy or moral debate. It's kill or be killed.

Another point: I believe Rocket mentioned, somewhere, that the mod is "set" post-apocalypse - like, quite a while after the apocalypse. Who's to say our characters didn't grow up in this environment? Humans are very flexible; they adapt and change to survive in their surroundings. In a world where "should I murder somebody?" is answered with the question "are they a threat to me?", what's good and what's bad slowly break down and decay.

That's right. Gettin' philosophical in this motherfucker.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Also, why is nobody bringing up the obvious fact that the social make-up of society very drastically changes during apocalyptic events - or, presumably? There have been a thousand novels, television shows, films, and comic books about this very subject. Do the laws of society apply when society collapses? Do morality and immorality mean anything in the "jungle"? What is it, exactly, that makes us human?

We cannot presume to conjecture what a human would or would not feel in a purely hypothetical situation. Sure, you might feel bad about murdering another human being - or maybe you felt it was the only way to keep yourself alive. Survival is a very, very powerful coping mechanism. Many people will do awful things in the wild, only to lament them upon their return to society - but what happens when there is no return to society? No time to think about what you've done? Our characters are in an almost perpetually kinetic state. They have no time for philosophy or moral debate. It's kill or be killed.

Another point: I believe Rocket mentioned, somewhere, that the mod is "set" post-apocalypse - like, quite a while after the apocalypse. Who's to say our characters didn't grow up in this environment? Humans are very flexible; they adapt and change to survive in their surroundings. In a world where "should I murder somebody?" is answered with the question "are they a threat to me?", what's good and what's bad slowly break down and decay.

That's right. Gettin' philosophical in this motherfucker.

+1

I had lost hope to ever see this topic brought up on this forum and kinda gave up bringing it up myself.

[SillySil 295]

Yes but that's not what "they" want, they want something that will cripple you.

What we want is people asking themselves "Do I really need to kill that guy?" before pulling the trigger and the answer to that question not being "Well, I don't care, it's not like there are any downsides of killing everyone you see"

Also, why is nobody bringing up the obvious fact that the social make-up of society very drastically changes during apocalyptic events - or, presumably? There have been a thousand novels, television shows, films, and comic books about this very subject. Do the laws of society apply when society collapses? Do morality and immorality mean anything in the "jungle"? What is it, exactly, that makes us human?

We cannot presume to conjecture what a human would or would not feel in a purely hypothetical situation. Sure, you might feel bad about murdering another human being - or maybe you felt it was the only way to keep yourself alive. Survival is a very, very powerful coping mechanism. Many people will do awful things in the wild, only to lament them upon their return to society - but what happens when there is no return to society? No time to think about what you've done? Our characters are in an almost perpetually kinetic state. They have no time for philosophy or moral debate. It's kill or be killed.

Another point: I believe Rocket mentioned, somewhere, that the mod is "set" post-apocalypse - like, quite a while after the apocalypse. Who's to say our characters didn't grow up in this environment? Humans are very flexible; they adapt and change to survive in their surroundings. In a world where "should I murder somebody?" is answered with the question "are they a threat to me?", what's good and what's bad slowly break down and decay.

That's right. Gettin' philosophical in this motherfucker.

The question isn't "are they a threat to me?". There is no question. You see someone and you kill them, nobody cares. The whole "is he a threat to me" is just a smoke.

And you also fail to realize, we are respawning. We live another life with experience from our previous lives. After getting shot in the face few time after shouting "friendly" you start shooting on sight too. So there are more and more people like that. And rightfully so because "free for all deathmatch unless you know the guy" is the gamemode of this game and if you don't follow it you die.

Edited July 14, 2012 by SillySil

[Eza (DayZ) 11]

Also, why is nobody bringing up the obvious fact that the social make-up of society very drastically changes during apocalyptic events - or, presumably? There have been a thousand novels, television shows, films, and comic books about this very subject. Do the laws of society apply when society collapses? Do morality and immorality mean anything in the "jungle"? What is it, exactly, that makes us human?

We cannot presume to conjecture what a human would or would not feel in a purely hypothetical situation. Sure, you might feel bad about murdering another human being - or maybe you felt it was the only way to keep yourself alive. Survival is a very, very powerful coping mechanism. Many people will do awful things in the wild, only to lament them upon their return to society - but what happens when there is no return to society? No time to think about what you've done? Our characters are in an almost perpetually kinetic state. They have no time for philosophy or moral debate. It's kill or be killed.

Another point: I believe Rocket mentioned, somewhere, that the mod is "set" post-apocalypse - like, quite a while after the apocalypse. Who's to say our characters didn't grow up in this environment? Humans are very flexible; they adapt and change to survive in their surroundings. In a world where "should I murder somebody?" is answered with the question "are they a threat to me?", what's good and what's bad slowly break down and decay.

That's right. Gettin' philosophical in this motherfucker.

If characters grew up in this environment, whoa they are blessed with randomly, magically popping cans of food, cokes, ammo, weapons.

No, I´d say it´s been about month or two after zombie apocalypse.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

What we want is people asking themselves "Do I really need to kill that guy?" before pulling the trigger and the answer to that question not being "Well, I don't care, it's not like there are any downsides of killing everyone you see"

It does cost a handful of bullets.

I would probably kill an unarmed player on close range to see if he has anything i could use, if i got the bag space.

Wasting shots on someone's silouette? BInoculars and see what's going on, but you would probably not even notice i was around.

What's interesting is this... almost obsessive way players have to cope with their own death, rationalizing that:

• I did nothing wrong. (of course you did, if i can see you run around or daydream you obviously don't know where to halt.)
  
• I was killed without reason. (how can you be certain of that?)
  
• This is not how the game is ment to be. (Who are you to declare that?)
  
• This is not fun. ( Why do you think it should be? )
  
• Now i'm gonna kill on sight like everyone else. ( How does it solve anything? )
  

[SillySil 295]

It does cost a handful of bullets.

I guess the concept of morality is unfamiliar to you. And please don't go to that "is he a threat to me?" smoke. It's shoot on sight, regardless of someone being a threat or not, you admitted to that.

I would probably kill an unarmed player on close range to see if he has anything i could use, if i got the bag space.

See you don't care at all. You are a psychopath. You have issues in your head. People with issues in their heads suffer from a number of consequences and that's what we are asking for in the game.

This is not how the game is ment to be. (Who are you to declare that?)

Wasn't the game supposed to be realistic? How is it realistic that everyone is a psychopath?

Now i'm gonna kill on sight like everyone else. ( How does it solve anything? )

Because maybe they didn't shoot on sight and got killed because they hesitated or tried to approach that person? Tried shouting "friendly" and go shot in the face? Did you think about that?

Edited July 14, 2012 by SillySil

[Riis 22]

I guess the concept of morality is unfamiliar to you. And please don't go to that "is he a threat to me?" smoke. It's shoot on sight, regardless of someone being a threat or not, you admitted to that.

See you don't care at all. You are a psychopath. You have issues in your head. People with issues in their heads suffer from a number of consequences and that's what we are asking for in the game.

Wasn't the game supposed to be realistic? How is it realistic that everyone is a psychopath?

Because maybe they didn't shoot on sight and got killed because they hesitated or tried to approach that person? Tried shouting "friendly" and go shot in the face? Did you think about that?

You keep applying the morality of a normal society to this post apocalyptic scenario, try reading some articles on what people will do when they try to survive. They turn on eachother, eat eachother, steal from one another, abandon eachother. Survival of the fittest is what comes to my mind when playing a game like this, I dont shoot on sight, but I see everyone as hostile, I might shoot them, but I might let them pass if they pose no immediate threat to me, or if taking them out is too big a risk to take.

[Eza (DayZ) 11]

^

I second what sillysil said.

[SillySil 295]

You keep applying the morality of a normal society to this post apocalyptic scenario, try reading some articles on what people will do when they try to survive. They turn on eachother, eat eachother, steal from one another, abandon eachother. Survival of the fittest is what comes to my mind when playing a game like this, I dont shoot on sight, but I see everyone as hostile, I might shoot them, but I might let them pass if they pose no immediate threat to me, or if taking them out is too big a risk to take.

So in an extreme situation people start killing each other for fun. Because that's what's happening right now. Killing, betraying, stealing, abandoning, and cannibalism is out of necessity not for fun (unless you're a psycho). And even then you are haunted by what you did, and might go completely apeshit.

Edited July 14, 2012 by SillySil

[Delta Smoke 01 765]

Punishing player killing = NO

Everyone is entitled to play the game they want.

To go completely backwards, why don't we implement a system that punishes players for killing zombies? Didn't think so.

He didnt say anything about punishing anyone. Think before you run your mouth off as he is right. perhaps morphine and painkiller addiction could follow mass murder. That would be cool.

[Eza (DayZ) 11]

You keep applying the morality of a normal society to this post apocalyptic scenario, try reading some articles on what people will do when they try to survive. They turn on eachother, eat eachother, steal from one another, abandon eachother. Survival of the fittest is what comes to my mind when playing a game like this, I dont shoot on sight, but I see everyone as hostile, I might shoot them, but I might let them pass if they pose no immediate threat to me, or if taking them out is too big a risk to take.

Sure, they might do that, but how does it affect them? you forget that Human is social animal, it WILL go insane in isolation and constantly killing others.

To what amount? it differs. For playability and thinking that this is game, I think it´d make sense to keep it just voices that arent there and random laughter that other players can hear so that this doesn´t just become some player kill penalty, but isntead part of immersion.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Eza

[Riis 22]

So in an extreme situation people start killing each other for fun. Because that's what's happening right now. Killing, betraying, stealing, abandoning, and cannibalism is out of necessity not for fun (unless you're a psycho). And even then you are haunted by what you did, and might go completely apeshit.

See its people like you that has never tried standing in a situation that required you to shoot that has a weird grasp on what happens to the human mind when they actually pull the trigger. I've shot at others in afghanistan, I've even killed a taliban, and I dont have any problems whatsoever with that. He was a threat, I took him out.

Now about the people that kill for fun, well, its a game you there's bound to be people who play it like that, but I'll be damned if I'm to be punished for killing others just because some kids kill people in cherno. If you have a problem with people killing you for fun, then don't go to cherno or electro, problem solved.

[Riis 22]

Sure, they might do that, but how does it affect them? you forget that Human is social animal, it WILL go insane in isolation and constantly killing others.

To what amount? it differs. For playability and thinking that this is game, I think it´d make sense to keep it just voices that arent there and random laughter that other players can hear so that this doesn´t just become some player kill penalty, but isntead part of immersion.

They might go insane, when they're safe! Untill then, its all about survival.

[Delta Smoke 01 765]

When will you people get it. There are no "certain playstyles" there is one playstyle. The gamemode this game currently supports. "Free for all deathmach unless you know the guy". That's the only viable "playstyle" at the moment and either you follow it or you die continuously.

There needs to be some sort of disadvantage to killing on sight because that's the safest but the least humane way of surviving. That would create two groups. Those who don't want to deal with it and kill people and those who do. Right now there are bandits or dead people, not bandits or survivors.

Bullshit. 7/10 of all players i meet on all servers that i dont know, are friendlys. Every time i play dayz without fail i end up in a large party of randoms that just bumped into one another. Sure il kill the odd few that dont speak fast enough but that is all. your mentality of the game comes from your stupidity of falling into the shoot on sight playstyle. Created by bandits to stop us banding togeather. Im not saying trust everyone...far from it. Just killing everyone you see is not the intended way of the game. The point is you choose your action. Not let some stereotype make that decision for you.

[Eza (DayZ) 11]

See its people like you that has never tried standing in a situation that required you to shoot that has a weird grasp on what happens to the human mind when they actually pull the trigger. I've shot at others in afghanistan, I've even killed a taliban, and I dont have any problems whatsoever with that. He was a threat, I took him out.

Now about the people that kill for fun, well, its a game you there's bound to be people who play it like that, but I'll be damned if I'm to be punished for killing others just because some kids kill people in cherno. If you have a problem with people killing you for fun, then don't go to cherno or electro, problem solved.

Yes, but we are now talking about zombie apocalypse, where almost everyone is dead, and you are all alone. that´s the setup. this is not war. After you came back from afghanistan, you had your friends and relatives. In zombie apocalypse, you don´t have nothing to go back to.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I guess the concept of morality is unfamiliar to you. And please don't go to that "is he a threat to me?" smoke. It's shoot on sight, regardless of someone being a threat or not, you admitted to that.

Morality isn't a fixed point in space and time, it changed greatly during human evolution and isn't universal to every societies and keeps evolving, sometimes leading to curious things, like considering a woman's ankle to be offending or making canibalism a tradition for generations in some tribal societies.

See you don't care at all. You are a psychopath. You have issues in your head. People with issues in their heads suffer from a number of consequences and that's what we are asking for in the game.

I don't have any issues! I feel fine, thank you for your concern! If i felt that there is a problem with me i would go see a doctor.

Wasn't the game supposed to be realistic? How is it realistic that everyone is a psychopath?

How realistic is it to dely peoples the liberty to chose how they want to behave and be perceived by others?

Because maybe they didn't shoot on sight and got killed because they hesitated or tried to approach that person? Tried shouting "friendly" and go shot in the face? Did you think about that?

Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. That's the risk of coming with your arms open toward someone with a machinegun. I got my share of it and sometimes it creates wonderful friendships.

Also sometimes it doesn't.

Just because, you refuse to take such approach without some kind of protective mechanic in place to ensure your safety doesn't means it never happens.

[Alexey Zemanov 6]

Or we can fly away with our ROFLcopter ,....

Only found one but it had a damaged fuel tank which couldn't be repaired. So the giggles were limited.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Alexey Zemanov