What MineZ is Doing Right, and What DayZ Could Learn From It.

[jatobi (DayZ) 12]

I guess someone finally took the "If you don't like it make your own mod" comments personally and did just that..

Except from everything I've seen they didn't really make their own "mod" but used other peoples mods and ideas on a server.

[Virfortis 111]

Well, in all honesty, I haven't given up on dayz. After all, I'm still here keeping my ear to the ground and seeing where rocket takes things over the next few months. The feedback has been given and now it's time to let the creator do his thing. But, I'm also curious to see what other designers will come up with amd the receptions other experiments receive. It's going to be a survival of the fittest situation. Or, more accurately, we'll see variations on the base concept with each filling a respective ecological niche and attracting its own playerbase. So, yeah, no need to panic.

I've written 487 (488) posts now, with more than half of them dedicated to the topic of building a better gamer. When I finally started making some headway, people hacked the forums and brought the whole thing down, erasing all the work I did.

There is nothing to be done about making a decent community, we just have to hope that a DayZ type mod comes out there and the moderators weed out the people every other society threw out.

[syncmaster (DayZ) 63]

Isn't that how DayZ started? I thought the zombie mod thing had been done with Arma and the reason this mod took off was because you can save your progress.

[gizm0 96]

I have a good friendly indicator.. USE YOUR MIC YOU IDIOT.

If I hear some guy screaming FRIENDLY DON'T SHOOT through direct, I won't shoot. But if I see some idiot trying to salute or do some other crap, I'll just cap him and assume he was raising his weapon to fire at me.

I have used my mic and have been shot by some punks, first with pdw, than a few moments later akm. Note I toggled my mic, so as soon as I heard shots hit near me, I started calling friendly and than I got hit and cussed him out.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Orthus

[AADiC 182]

Get rid of sniper rifles. Then you have to adapt or die.

Not realistic.

[underscore 12]

I guess someone finally took the "If you don't like it make your own mod" comments personally and did just that..

Too true. And now watch as certain people start running around screeching and throwing out words like "criminal" and "thief" and "lawsuit". The height of hypocrisy considering that dayz would never be possible if it wasn't for others allowing people to build upon, amend and modify their work. But, fuck that, let's just stomp arouind angrily spewing threats and looking for the nearest big stick, because it's always easier to destroy any competition rather than actually concentrating on improving our product.

[syncmaster (DayZ) 63]

Would a nuke in the game realistic?

[AADiC 182]

This. Also, familiarize yourself with the term survivorship bias. OP you're wasting your time. We tried having these discussions weeks ago and that ship has long sailed. Leave this troll game to the trolls. Apparently, that's rocket's vision. My best advice: ignore this game and allow mother nature to take its course. Dayz will stagnate and wallow as it sinks ever deeper into griefer muck, but sooner rather than later something better will rise to replace it. At the core of this mod there lies a kernel of amazing, innovative gameplay. If rocket fails to develop it properly, then somebody else will. So, no worries, but trying to argue with these fanboys is nothing more than an exercise in futility. Spare yourself the frustration.

I'll put $10, says this game not only makes it to a "stand alone" version, but does quite well.

You can never please everyone.

[AADiC 182]

I have a good friendly indicator.. USE YOUR MIC YOU IDIOT.

If I hear some guy screaming FRIENDLY DON'T SHOOT through direct, I won't shoot. But if I see some idiot trying to salute or do some other crap, I'll just cap him and assume he was raising his weapon to fire at me.

If I hear someone yelling in Mic "friendly don't shoot", I think it's a trap, and shoot

[underscore 12]

I'll put $10, says this game not only makes it to a "stand alone" version, but does quite well.

You can never please everyone.

No argument there. I have no doubt the game makes it to standalone and continues to be relatively popular. And, like you say, you can't please everyone. That's why there's usually a number of games on any given popular subject.

[Virfortis 111]

Not realistic.

I forgot that this game is so realistic that eating food restores blood instantly, ammunition is infinite, engines can fit in backpacks, NVGs have unlimited battery life, zombies are deaf, we can disconnect, and people respawn.

Face it, we're in a fantasy world. Survival is boring and there's nothing to do but shoot for points.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Virfortis

[zipper 69]

Grouping up has great benefits, while solo play isn't punished.

This is something DayZ struggles with, but MineZ gets a lot of it right on it's first try.

If you don't think grouping up has benefits you are sorely mistaken.

I believe you are seeing a significant number of high grade military weapons due to duping, being able to hop servers with the same gear, and people being bored (i.e. spent a week farming the NWAF and heli crash sites) because they play in a group (a huge group benefit). Playing in groups gets you gear. Enough gear gets you a vehicle. Vehicles get you more gear. Eventually people get tired of "surviving" and run down to the coast with their gear just to shoot people. Reducing the number of military grade weapons won't do anything to change that. If anything it will hurt solo play even more, because now, once a group starts to get their hands on some high grade gear, solo survivors will stand zero chance against them.

Having one or two characters per server I believe would help the mod a lot more than making the game easier, and reducing the number of weapons. The game is supposed to be hard. You are supposed to always be on edge because you could get shot by a sniper at any given time from over 1000m away. It requires you to really think things through before you do anything. Failure to do so can result in death. I really hope DayZ takes nothing from MineZ. The game is supposed to be tough. It is supposed to suck when you start out with only the bare minimum of gear. That makes you think twice before you act. I wouldn't want anything implemented into the game that removed that aspect from it. That would completely destroy the game for me.

You are by the way exaggerating. Every death is not from a sniper 500m away. Most of the time when I have to shoot, it is within 100m, in a city I shouldn't be in in the first place, and usually because I wasn't paying attention to what was going on around me enough to either avoid, or at least observe the survivor I stumble upon.

But you got your wish, 1.7.2 wiped the ghille suits. So enjoy, nobody has one now. :)

[hoak 27]

There are some valid points made in the OP, especially about the lack of any realistic ability in DayZ to signal and ascertain friendly intentions -- and this hurts DayZ substantially both in terms of realism, and fun.

The point about weapons being overpowered however lacks merit -- as DayZ's design intentions are more to realism. The over abundance of ammunition in DayZ however, is both unrealistic, and a detriment to depth of play and fun.

To wit any 'event' where all industrial production as ceased, and confrontation between most of the world's population has prevailed would exhaust or destroy most stocks of ammunition and munitions -- making them (by most estimates) as or more scares then food or medical supplies...

Making ammunition more realistically scarce in DayZ would make it a much more valuable commodity rather then a simplistic, mechanical means to a destructive end; people would be more willing to trade for ammunition, and less willing to use it on other sentient Players...

-- Hopefully this will be considered...

[Naykon (DayZ) 25]

Thank you for highlighting the reasons why I play DayZ and not MineZ.

[Time Glitch 453]

But you got your wish, 1.7.2 wiped the ghille suits. So enjoy, nobody has one now. :)

I honestly wish all characters, items, and vehicles got wiped with every major update that added/removed features. That way everyone has to work their way back up when, say, loot spawns change or an exploit is fixed.

Also help re-enforce that we are here to TEST.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Time Glitch

[Virfortis 111]

There are some valid points made in the OP, especially about the lack of any realistic ability in DayZ to signal and ascertain friendly intentions -- and this hurts DayZ substantially both in terms of realism, and fun.

The point about weapons being overpowered however lacks merit -- as DayZ's design intentions are more to realism. The over abundance of ammunition in DayZ however, is both unrealistic, and a detriment to depth of play and fun.

To wit any 'event' where all industrial production as ceased, and confrontation between most of the world's population has prevailed would exhaust or destroy most stocks of ammunition and munitions -- making them (by most estimates) as or more scares then food or medical supplies...

Making ammunition more realistically scarce in DayZ would make it a much more valuable commodity rather then a simplistic, mechanical means to a destructive end; people would be more willing to trade for ammunition, and less willing to use it on other sentient Players...

-- Hopefully this will be considered...

Everyone knows that this would be a big change to DayZ for the better, but it never happens...so I ask: Why does it not happen?

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

I refuse to believe that Rocket's vision for this game was for it to boil down to a hidden snipe-fest.

Well its not a hidden snipe fest, mmkay? If that is your impression you're doing something wrong.

[Jackftw 310]

I have used my mic and have been shot by some punks, first with pdw, than a few moments later akm. Note I toggled my mic, so as soon as I heard shots hit near me, I started calling friendly and than I got hit and cussed him out.

Sad truth about any game. Sometimes people are just dicks. :(

[oZiix 45]

I honestly wish all characters, items, and vehicles got wiped with every major update that added/removed features. That way everyone has to work their way back up when, say, loot spawns change or an exploit is fixed.

Also help re-enforce that we are here to TEST.

Again you seem to just pull out points you CAN argue. A bunch of replies and you choose this one.

Everyone wiped at every new patch is dumb cause you know what you technically are testing? Early game. If you want early game tested and ironed out to death and late game all jacked up go play SWTOR.

[rifter 17]

I honestly wish all characters, items, and vehicles got wiped with every major update that added/removed features. That way everyone has to work their way back up when, say, loot spawns change or an exploit is fixed.

Also help re-enforce that we are here to TEST.

Stupid idea. Feedback needs to come from broad perspective as quickly as possible. Various resets will happen when rocket actually has a reason to do them.

[septuscap 42]

I've written 487 (488) posts now, with more than half of them dedicated to the topic of building a better gamer. When I finally started making some headway, people hacked the forums and brought the whole thing down, erasing all the work I did.

There is nothing to be done about making a decent community, we just have to hope that a DayZ type mod comes out there and the moderators weed out the people every other society threw out.

The reason MineZ has more "friendly" play has nothing to do with the community. You simply have more time to assess the situation when your opponent is wielding a sword. You can keep relatively close to some one and still defend yourself if he turns on you.

That simply does not work in a shooter. Look at the stat board. There aren't very many bandits. Most people are just randomly running into other players and shooting to stay alive because letting the OTHER guy take the first shot means you're dead. Rocket has already said he's going to introduce cave/tunnel building for survivors to make cities and the like, and I'm sure it'll lead to awesome scenarios.

Your venomous hatred is just not founded on reality. You're Don Quixote, and bandits are your windmill.

[mrducky (DayZ) 33]

I think this was an excellent thread/post.

Even though DayZ is different than any minecraft mod due to its military sim base - and it most probably should stay that way too, it always makes sense to compare a game/mod to other similar games/mods. It always helps getting some insight on where the game has succeeded or failed... And which of the features are clearly causing which of the resulting player behaviour, etc.

It's not like those things could not be deduced by carefully looking at DayZ alone, but its always easier to see them and to validate the deduction when you have something else to compare to.

I certainly hope rocket at least considers the points presented by OP / tries out the MineZ himself, as it would be a sensible thing to do (even if he rightfully decides not to implement any of those features or to take DayZ to that direction).

[rifter 17]

I think this was an excellent thread/post.

Even though DayZ is different than any minecraft mod due to its military sim base - and it most probably should stay that way too, it always makes sense to compare a game/mod to other similar games/mods. It always helps getting some insight on where the game has succeeded or failed... And which of the features are clearly causing which of the resulting player behaviour, etc.

It's not like those things could not be deduced by carefully looking at DayZ alone, but its always easier to see them and to validate the deduction when you have something else to compare to.

I certainly hope rocket at least considers the points presented by OP / tries out the MineZ himself, as it would be a sensible thing to do (even if he rightfully decides not to implement any of those features or to take DayZ to that direction).

There aren't really any to compare it to. That's why there is so much experimentation going on.

[Mourek 40]

All these ideas would make DayZ easier... I think that DayZ is ok as it is now on 1.7.2, in fact, I'd like it to get even harder.

[JinxX 11]

Welcome TC to the forums, where any post that isn't directly sucking the dev's **** is responded with 'Carebear CODKid noob go play somethangelse'.

Don't try to make suggestions, it hurts peoples feelings of stability and the snipers will come in force to protect their right to shoot at you from a mile away while safely cowering under their bush. Any change to this way to play will 'ruin' the game (true but just for them) and make DayZ 'stupid'.

:D Enjoy your stay!