Coop? Why the hell coop?

[interceptor 5]

Edit : My point of view and opinions are not fully explained in this post but in the entire thread. Please take a small look at the entire history :)

Warning : This will contain some arguments against the stupidness of KOS. Post only smart replies not useless ones.

Hey!

We all know how it's working atm to survive in dayz. If you've got no friends who want to play dayz or even arma 2, this game isn't for you. You'll die by some random persons who think that everyone he meets is a bandit or a big gold mine. Or another possibility there's a clan or some friends who could team up and now they're shooting everyone else (in other words stupid KOS).

Only personal opinion :

Right. It's a way to play dayz. But I guess that wasn't rocket's initial goal that everyone shoots everyone. Otherwise he wouldn't have set the mod to COOP mode. He would have set it to deathmatch or "premade superior teams" which is actually the case for the moment.

Why am I against it that people premade their team? If you can remember at the very early stage of dayz where there were less players, you couldn't trust people but they didn't KOS you and the chance to team up INSIDE the game through chat was at a possible level. (only personal opinion but not my main focus) Now most people get on a teamspeak server and team up. Simply for the realism, in a real scenario, you can't just simply team up with friends, who are at the other end of the map. It breaks a part of the game. You guys always tell, you can't trust anyone which makes it so fun dayz, but you don't realise that this feeling has no effect on you if you've already team up with some friends.So what can be done about it? Nothing.

But what I think concerning the KOS, what could possibly force a bit cooperative gameplay is to make surviving a lot more harder than it is now. If the difficulty increases, players are more likely to search help from other people. At the moment, zombies are not a real threat, they're just sometimes annoying. The biggest threat are the players. In my opinion, these last ones should be the opposite.

Ok that's all what i've got to say and I'm looking forward for some usefull feedbacks. ;)

Edited July 13, 2012 by Interceptor

[piccolo_bsc 3]

So what can be done about it? Nothing. But what I think' date=' which could possibly force a bit cooperative gameplay is to make surviving a lot more harder than it is now. If the difficulty increases, players are more likely to search help from other people. At the moment, zombies are not a real threat, they're just sometimes annoying. The biggest threat are the players. In my opinion, these last ones should be the opposite.[/quote']

I totally agree on that part.

[takeshi367 1]

Right. It's a way to play dayz. But I guess that wasn't rocket's initial goal that everyone shoots everyone. Otherwise he wouldn't have set the mod to COOP mode. He would have set it to deathmatch or "premade superior teams" which is actually the case for the moment.

I Concur, Rocket's initial goal was to essentially make a game where The world's (Chernarus') social order has been broken down and there are no rules. It's a sandbox, you can do whatever you may please. The people you meet are under the same restrictions as you.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=588&pid=7100#pid7100

I suggest you read Rocket's Post here. There are also plenty of people who have posted ideas for inducing more Co-op Player Interaction. And if you're having trouble looking for a group, go to the Survivor HQ and make a thread asking for someone to play with. They'd be glad to join you in your Epic Conquests :P That's where I met my group and we haven't had any intended deaths due to each other.

[CaptainPlanet (DayZ) 23]

Someone sounds like they need a group.

[interceptor 5]

Right. It's a way to play dayz. But I guess that wasn't rocket's initial goal that everyone shoots everyone. Otherwise he wouldn't have set the mod to COOP mode. He would have set it to deathmatch or "premade superior teams" which is actually the case for the moment.

I Concur' date=' Rocket's initial goal was to essentially make a game where The world's (Chernarus') social order has been broken down and there are no rules. It's a sandbox, you can do whatever you may please. The people you meet are under the same restrictions as you.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=588&pid=7100#pid7100

I suggest you read Rocket's Post here. There are also plenty of people who have posted ideas for inducing more Co-op Player Interaction. And if you're having trouble looking for a group, go to the Survivor HQ and make a thread asking for someone to play with. They'd be glad to join you in your Epic Conquests :P That's where I met my group and we haven't had any intended deaths due to each other.

[/quote']

Someone sounds like they need a group.

I guess you both didn't understand the point I was trying to explain. It's gamebreaking if you setup a team outside of the game. You should create groups only ingame. No I'm not looking forward and don't need to find a group on this forum or somewhere else (I travel mostly alone). My thoughts are simply that you shouldn't be able to form groups outside of the game. Perhaps you shouldn't be able to choose a specific server where you can meet your friends? Okay, you should be able to choose what country and what region you would like to join but nothing more. But again this is simply an Idea.

@ takeshi367 Thank you for the link and your opinion. I've never said that there should be rules or something like that which would make impossible to make your own decisions. It's a sandbox. But again, it's a survival mod, not a deathmatch mod. And I guess you can agree that the factor that is influencing the KOS attitude of many players is due that zombies are not a real threat.

[LumberBack 43]

Right. It's a way to play dayz. But I guess that wasn't rocket's initial goal that everyone shoots everyone. Otherwise he wouldn't have set the mod to COOP mode. He would have set it to deathmatch or "premade superior teams" which is actually the case for the moment.

I Concur' date=' Rocket's initial goal was to essentially make a game where The world's (Chernarus') social order has been broken down and there are no rules. It's a sandbox, you can do whatever you may please. The people you meet are under the same restrictions as you.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=588&pid=7100#pid7100

I suggest you read Rocket's Post here. There are also plenty of people who have posted ideas for inducing more Co-op Player Interaction. And if you're having trouble looking for a group, go to the Survivor HQ and make a thread asking for someone to play with. They'd be glad to join you in your Epic Conquests :P That's where I met my group and we haven't had any intended deaths due to each other.

[/quote']

Someone sounds like they need a group.

I guess you both didn't understand the point I was trying to explain. It's gamebreaking if you setup a team outside of the game. You should create groups only ingame. No I'm not looking forward and don't need to find a group on this forum or somewhere else (I travel mostly alone). My thoughts are simply that you shouldn't be able to form groups outside of the game. Perhaps you shouldn't be able to choose a specific server where you can meet your friends? Okay' date=' you should be able to choose what country and what region you would like to join but nothing more. But again this is simply an Idea.

@ takeshi367 Thank you for the link and your opinion. I've never said that there should be rules or something like that which would make impossible to make your own decisions. It's a sandbox. But again, it's a survival mod, not a deathmatch mod. And I guess you can agree that the factor that is influencing the KOS attitude of many players is due that zombies are not a real threat.

[/quote']

i hear what you are saying, the groups that are on mumble, skype and what have ya, are really screwing with the whole experience.

[interceptor 5]

i hear what you are saying' date=' the groups that are on mumble, skype and what have ya, are really screwing with the whole experience.

[/quote']

Exactly. You resumed my though in one simple sentence. Thank you :D. But may I know your opinion about it?

[ActionManZlt 160]

It's gamebreaking if you setup a team outside of the game. You should create groups only ingame.

Rocket has explicitly condoned out-of-game "meta-gaming", so it's an intended part of the game that we'll form out-of-game groups as well as use in-game communication.

BTW, I've had more luck making in-game friends when playing with my out-of-game group! By approaching people as a group, you're showing that you can kill them (but haven't, so are likely not murderers), and when you offer an out-of-game way to communicate (URL, TS, Skype names, etc), then they know that you're actually interested in coop and really want to make friends.

[LumberBack 43]

My opinion on dayz as a whole, hmm.

well when i first started playing this game, it was something new, it felt really fresh, it wasnt just about killing stuff. people were actually giving me advice about how to play the game, and helping me out in general to try and survive. I thought, damn this is great, its the game ive been looking for. there was no talk about killing other people, it was all about surviving.

now on the other hand, people team up just to go killing other players, its gone from something new and fresh, to old and generic... another shooter...

im just waiting for the patch, to see if they are actually doing something about the whole situation...

and about the coms, you cant really do anything about them, as they are out of the game... so no point in going into it further...

[ActionManZlt 160]

Hopefully the morality system is re-introduced in a future patch. Having some murderous bandits in the world is a good thing, but if it could be bandits VS rangers, with civilians just being caught in the crossfire, it would give meaningful end-game PVP, while also making it somewhat safer for players who don't want to join in the PVP.

[rainf 76]

The thing is, KoS isnt quite as rife as you make it out to be. Many times ive encountered players and we have lived and let live even with heightened paranoia, and on some occasions these people have then gone onto my friend lists on steam.

Now, I usually DO KoS but if I always did it, i don't end up with the same experience, sometimes a guy I was about to kill with impunity but "spare" has later patched me up in a tight squeeze or led me into a awesome mission of our own, but that's the beauty, it isn't a perceived risk/reward for killing somebody, other players can be quite useful, beyond their gear, and let's face it, anyone playing for a short while can set themselves up with some respectable gear in very short order.

As for premade groups, I don't mind, I don't see dayz as a deathmatch environment, just groups of survivors and some lone wolves trying to get by and make ends meet, and sometimes they're going to clash either intentionally or via chance, the outcome lies with knowledge, luck and experience.

[interceptor 5]

I understand that you're likely to KOS every person due to paranoia. But as it was mentionned in the OP, higher difficulty would probably force people to cooperate with each other alot more and real banditry would be back again. KOS would also be possible but you shall only do that if there's a real need of it like stealing food and water from another player in order to survive.

[Macenzie 79]

Pre-made groups beaking the game? Are you for real?

Go make some friends.

Like in the real world, those with superior numbers will have the most advantage.

Don't like it? Find some people and BE the group with superior numbers.

[interceptor 5]

Pre-made groups beaking the game? Are you for real?

Go make some friends.

Before making useless comments you should read the OP. Thank you! It breaks a part of the game? Yes indeed.

---- EDIT because you edited too ----

If you want to put it in a real world scenario I'm fine with it. First of all, if you can remember, your first day in DayZ you start alone at a coast. Now you want to tell me you can speak with your friend who is at the other end of the map? No. I totally agree that groups are superior to someone traveling alone. But again you didn't understand what was my point of this discussion. I am totaly for groups in dayz which ARE made during gaming. But as someone said you can't do anything against it and it was already mentionned in the OP. My point is that the gameplay should be alot more harder than it is now.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

A wolf in sheep's clothing I see. Yet another nefarious form of "I find it interesting to play DayZ in a certain way, so that is how everyone should play it forever."

What would you have me do, invite all my friends to come play the game and then tell them "Oh, sorry, we can't meet up in Skype like we do for every other game because some dude on the forums said it was ruining his experience."? Do I have to avoid my friends altogether? Or should I have never invited them to play in the first place?

Guess what? I don't like random strangers. I don't like them in real life and I don't like them in games. I want to spend my Friday night with a few beers and a few friends I know and trust, not litsening to some 14-year-old from who-knows munching Doritos and burping Mt. Dew in my ear all night just because you think that makes the game somehow more compelling.

If you don't have any friends in the game or don't want to invite friends, that's fine. The styles are not mutually exclusive. You can reach out and make contact with groups just as easily as you can with individuals. And maybe even make some new friends in the process. Nothing stopping you and no reason for people to shun their friends.

[Macenzie 79]

I didn't agree with the op's opinion so obviously I didn't read the op's opinion properly.

Please. Not everyone wants to play the game YOUR way.

[interceptor 5]

A wolf in sheep's clothing I see. Yet another nefarious form of "I find it interesting to play DayZ in a certain way' date=' so that is how everyone should play it forever."

What would you have me do, invite all my friends to come play the game and then tell them "Oh, sorry, we can't meet up in Skype like we do for every other game because some dude on the forums said it was ruining his experience."? Do I have to avoid my friends altogether? Or should I have never invited them to play in the first place?

Guess what? I don't like random strangers. I don't like them in real life and I don't like them in games. I want to spend my Friday night with a few beers and a few friends I know and trust, not litsening to some 14-year-old from who-knows munching Doritos and burping Mt. Dew in my ear all night just because you think that makes the game somehow more compelling.

If you don't have any friends in the game or don't want to invite friends, that's fine. The styles are not mutually exclusive. You can reach out and make contact with groups just as easily as you can with individuals. And maybe even make some new friends in the process. Nothing stopping you and no reason for people to shun their friends.

[/quote']

OK that will be my last post concerning this matter. I absolutly AGREE with your point. I simply gave my opinion and never told that everyone should do it like this. I just though it would break a small but still an important part of the game.

My initial focus was based on the gameplay concerning the coop and KOS by increasing the difficulty. Somehow I shouldn't have mentionned my personal opinion about premade teams.

@Macenzie

Before you make your personal opinion about something, read the whole thing even if you disagree because perhaps there were different topics in one thread. That's what I do at least.

I never wanted to force anyone to adapt his style of gaming to my style. I simply told that the mod should include zombies or other things that increase the difficulty so people cooperate with each other instead of KOS everyone (at least a bit).

I have the feeling that I repeat myself...

[Slitter 11]

While i agree that surviving should be harder in general, i don't believe it would change anything about KoS.

I know that people feel like they are always killed on sight but i definitly have different experiences. I met a lot of survivors that didn't KoS but had conversation with me. Sure there is a lot of KoS, too, but people exaggerate a little bit in my opinion.

KoS happens because people are scared of beeing killed by the other survivor, so they shoot to be safe. Now. If it was harder to survive in the firstplace, wouldn't it be a reason to KoS more? because i could lose everything i worked so hard to acquire all i have alone?

it might make some people stop KoS but probably will lead others to KoS and in the end nothing changed.

but i would give it a try just because i love the idea of a harder time surviving ^^

Also, no, you don't need friends to play this game and have fun. I rarely play with my friends (different working hours :( ) and still have fun. Why? Because the game is much more intense when playing alone and that's what i am looking for in a zombie-apocalypse game.

[Refried 14]

the removal of 3rd party voice comm from online games will not happen ever

making points against it is a complete waste of time

as someone already said, if you are playing by yourself then that is strictly a you problem; arguments about immersion and the realism of communicating over distance are rendered moot when you've already established yourself as a groupless loner

[interceptor 5]

the removal of 3rd party voice comm from online games will not happen ever

making points against it is a complete waste of time

as someone already said' date=' if you are playing by yourself then that is strictly a you problem; arguments about immersion and the realism of communicating over distance are rendered moot when you've already established yourself as a groupless loner

[/quote']

As I mentionned before : It was only my personnal opinion and only A PART OF THE THREAD. Please take a look at the other point of view mentionned.

[Refried 14]

your other point is not even a point

increasing the game's difficulty will only strengthen groups further and leave solo players more disadvantaged than they already are

it certainly won't make them all suddenly welcome strangers with open arms

tl;dr make some friends

[interceptor 5]

tl;dr make some friends

Unfortunatly I have friends who don't like to play arma nor dayz. I don't really care about it nor is it really influencing my fun.

Ok I noticed that I've made some mistakes concerning the structur of the text. It really looks like that my intentions were all focused to make impossible to form groups outside of the game since there is a massiv wall of text conerning it. It wasn't actually my goal to focus on that topic.

Sorry to everyone.

My main focus was actually set for the difficulty of the game and cooperative/KOS teamplay. I'll edit the OP. Sorry again if I sounded arrogant/agressif in my earlier replies :s

[lev 39]

And here we can see another new player who doesn't know how Arma's game mode system works. Coop is a large blanket mode for basically any scenario type mission. DM is a specific type of game mode where the mission ends after x time limit or y score limit. TDM same thing as DM but with teams. As you can see those limits would prevent a sandbox game so yes, the game was placed under the coop mode. In Coop type missions there does not necessarily need to be any coop at all, it all depends on the scripts used to run the mission.

And on your other point about difficulty. There's a ton of threads on making the game harder. I tend to agree with this sentiment.

[Calcey 0]

tl;dr make some friends

Unfortunatly I have friends who don't like to play arma nor dayz. I don't really care about it nor is it really influencing my fun.

Ok I noticed that I've made some mistakes concerning the structur of the text. It really looks like that my intentions were all focused to make impossible to form groups outside of the game since there is a massiv wall of text conerning it. It wasn't actually my goal to focus on that topic.

Sorry to everyone.

My main focus was actually set for the difficulty of the game and cooperative/KOS teamplay. I'll edit the OP. Sorry again if I sounded arrogant/agressif in my earlier replies :s

You shouldn't apologize.

[interceptor 5]

And here we can see another new player who doesn't know how Arma's game mode system works. Coop is a large blanket mode for basically any scenario type mission. DM is a specific type of game mode where the mission ends after x time limit or y score limit. TDM same thing as DM but with teams. As you can see those limits would prevent a sandbox game so yes' date=' the game was placed under the coop mode. In Coop type missions there does not necessarily need to be any coop at all, it all depends on the scripts used to run the mission.

And on your other point about difficulty. There's a ton of threads on making the game harder. I tend to agree with this sentiment.

[/quote']

Actually I'm far away to be a "new player" to arma. The only thing I didn't know was the deathmatch thing. But thank you for your information about it.