Do the devs actually read this forum?

[Kyiara 743]

12 hours ago, lakevu said:

i understand who adam is and what he has done but i am skeptical to the level of understanding he has about what exactly "IS" DAYZ not namalsk. or whether he truly knows the factors from Arma 2 mod that made it the basically the lightning in the bottle that it was. and seemingly has never been able to be created again only to lesser, incomplete, unimpressive forms by comparison.

because from what ive seen both in arma 2 and now. is that he basically takes the fundamentals he is given and builds on top of it. and because of this i am skeptical whether he has even considered the deeper mechanics of the game. things like movement mechanics, gunplay mechanics and aesthetical mechanics like post processing effects.

but again i as far as i am aware adam is in charge but is this true? or is there somebody above him influencing his decisions and only giving him a leash of what he can and cant do. because that would also make alot of sense to me why the game is in the shape it is today.

but i can never know if adam is the problem or whether somebody above him is the problem not letting him do things

It's not just Adam, it's a whole team of dedicated devs 😉 And player's feedback...
Perhaps check for the open positions
- you would be able to see and understand how the team works for yourself
- If you really think you could do better and have the level of knowledge needed for the job, you could honestly be benefit to the team

[lakevu 77]

21 hours ago, Kyiara said:

It's not just Adam, it's a whole team of dedicated devs 😉 And player's feedback...
Perhaps check for the open positions
- you would be able to see and understand how the team works for yourself
- If you really think you could do better and have the level of knowledge needed for the job, you could honestly be benefit to the team

this seems to be the answer i keep getting. that its not just adam. so then it is impossible for me to say whether he truly understands the game and accurately evaluate him or he is being handcuffed and held back by other people, who dont understand, that he must concede to and compromise with diluting the integrity of the game.

[Kyiara 743]

1 hour ago, lakevu said:

this seems to be the answer i keep getting. that its not just adam. so then it is impossible for me to say whether he truly understands the game and accurately evaluate him or he is being handcuffed and held back by other people, who dont understand, that he must concede to and compromise with diluting the integrity of the game.

I just wonder what makes you think you are the one that truly understands the game, the engine, the schedules and all the other stuff that goes with development since you obviously think the team members don't...
Because If you really have all that knowledge to judge their work, it would be great If you could apply for some of the top positions in BI.

[lakevu 77]

32 minutes ago, Kyiara said:

I just wonder what makes you think you are the one that truly understands the game, the engine, the schedules and all the other stuff that goes with development since you obviously think the team members don't...
Because If you really have all that knowledge to judge their work, it would be great If you could apply for some of the top positions in BI.

what makes me think this is i have spent alot of time analyzing the game. specifically the mod and what made it the lightning in the bottle that it was. and then compared it to the current version we have now to see what exactly went off the tracks. and why it is not inspiring the same reaction that it once did.

 

and im not saying "i am the one" who truly, 100% understands the game and every facet there is. because i dont. there are still things i dont fully understand. but i am saying that i do believe i have a better understanding than what seems most people of what "dayz" actually "is". beyond whats seems to be "dayz is just chernarus + zombies" and thats as deep as the understanding gets.

 

and no. i know they dont understand because i can see their actions and the things they create. from the trailers that are put out to the changes made in game. and if i am to judge by actions. these actions do not show me a deep understanding of the games identity and what it "is".

like for example lets look at the 1.20 trailer with the couple. this is the stupidest thing ive ever seen come from this game and is detached of any sense of reality or seriousness. now compare that to dayz standalones first ever early access trailer where at the end the lady shoots herself next to what i can assume to be her boyfriend underneath a tree. that is serious. that is what dayz is. and that is the type of video 1.20 should have been about. that lady succumbing to the perils of the apocalypse with her lover. not some stupid video that could be confused for a rap music video.

and look at the game itself. its been 5 years since .63 release. why does the game still have arcade like mechanics and controls for its movement and gunplay more reminiscent of cod than of a simulation? why is my gun locked to the center of screen when aiming instead of disconnected and free floating like it use to be? why is there still no turn speed limiter on my character so i cant just do 720's at the flick of my wrist? why can i spam left right left right with minimal input delay in between so my guy looks like a coked out jack rabit when he moves back and forth looking like a spaz.

 

so yes when looking at the teams actual actions and not intents. cause we can only judge actions and not intents right? outcomes not intentions. i am confident to say these people dont understand what this game really is. and i would also be confident in betting that that understanding doesnt go much deeper than "chernarus + zombies = dayz"

 

[SleeperZ 50]

7 hours ago, lakevu said:

what makes me think this is i have spent alot of time analyzing the game. specifically the mod and what made it the lightning in the bottle that it was. and then compared it to the current version we have now to see what exactly went off the tracks. and why it is not inspiring the same reaction that it once did.

 

and im not saying "i am the one" who truly, 100% understands the game and every facet there is. because i dont. there are still things i dont fully understand. but i am saying that i do believe i have a better understanding than what seems most people of what "dayz" actually "is". beyond whats seems to be "dayz is just chernarus + zombies" and thats as deep as the understanding gets.

 

and no. i know they dont understand because i can see their actions and the things they create. from the trailers that are put out to the changes made in game. and if i am to judge by actions. these actions do not show me a deep understanding of the games identity and what it "is".

like for example lets look at the 1.20 trailer with the couple. this is the stupidest thing ive ever seen come from this game and is detached of any sense of reality or seriousness. now compare that to dayz standalones first ever early access trailer where at the end the lady shoots herself next to what i can assume to be her boyfriend underneath a tree. that is serious. that is what dayz is. and that is the type of video 1.20 should have been about. that lady succumbing to the perils of the apocalypse with her lover. not some stupid video that could be confused for a rap music video.

and look at the game itself. its been 5 years since .63 release. why does the game still have arcade like mechanics and controls for its movement and gunplay more reminiscent of cod than of a simulation? why is my gun locked to the center of screen when aiming instead of disconnected and free floating like it use to be? why is there still no turn speed limiter on my character so i cant just do 720's at the flick of my wrist? why can i spam left right left right with minimal input delay in between so my guy looks like a coked out jack rabit when he moves back and forth looking like a spaz.

 

so yes when looking at the teams actual actions and not intents. cause we can only judge actions and not intents right? outcomes not intentions. i am confident to say these people dont understand what this game really is. and i would also be confident in betting that that understanding doesnt go much deeper than "chernarus + zombies = dayz"

 

They have made the game less serious and easier because they want money. Appealing to casuals is what you do when your game is failing so you make it very user friendly and simple to understand so that it can reach a larger audience. They're focusing on useless content instead of reworking features that they remade in a day for the full release(0.63). It also feels like the game is going down a competitive root, everyone is sprinting around, leaning spamming at every chance they get and applying filters to see better at night and day. 

[Jevez 28]

6 hours ago, lakevu said:

I can see their actions and the things they create. from the trailers that are put out to the changes made in game.

like for example lets look at the 1.20 trailer with the couple. this is the stupidest thing ive ever seen come from this game and is detached of any sense of reality or seriousness. now compare that to dayz standalones first ever early access trailer where at the end the lady shoots herself next to what i can assume to be her boyfriend underneath a tree. that is serious. that is what dayz is. and that is the type of video 1.20 should have been about. that lady succumbing to the perils of the apocalypse with her lover. not some stupid video that could be confused for a rap music video.

and look at the game itself. its been 5 years since .63 release. why does the game still have arcade like mechanics and controls for its movement and gunplay more reminiscent of cod than of a simulation? why is my gun locked to the center of screen when aiming instead of disconnected and free floating like it use to be? why is there still no turn speed limiter on my character so i cant just do 720's at the flick of my wrist? why can i spam left right left right with minimal input delay in between so my guy looks like a coked out jack rabit when he moves back and forth looking like a spaz.

While I think some of the other things you said were pretty rude, I do agree with these points here.

The tone of the game has definitely shifted in a wrong direction, overall the tone is reflected in many things, but includes those you mentioned.

Trailers/Marketing can definitely set the tone, and I agree some things such as the 1.20 trailer were goofy and out of place for the type of game DayZ is (or was)

The recent 1.22 trailer was great however, loved the atmosphere, music and editing in that trailer, feels much more fitting to DayZ, please more like that! - BUT at the end of the trailer we have more out of place stuff once again, a guy wearing a neon pink/green hip pack with the words "PARTY animal" written on it.. I really dislike that these sort of things are being added, the normal hip packs are cool but who actually wanted that one? Keeping the aesthetic of the game intact is important and this kinda stuff ain't it.

Movement/Gunplay, the changes to these systems that made them more arcadey has drastically changed the tone of the game, when more "COD-like" gameplay is allowed the way people play and the feel of everything is turned on its head.

The feeling of slower paced tactical gameplay is gone when you can now sprint full speed at people and hipfire spray fully accurate with your static crosshair, hold breath for 1 second and instantly have 0 sway while standing, even after sprinting for 10 minutes etc. Guns have 0 recoil and feel boring to shoot now, among other things. Also the old stamina system where your sway would increase based on how long you were sprinting for (and you'd hear you character breathing heavier, no need for a HUD) was really great. These issues were immediately apparent after 0.63 released and there was lots of discussion around it at the time, yet the arcadey gameplay remains today.

One of the current DayZ developers, DOJ, uploaded a video before he joined the dev team discussing things such as the old recoil, how the camera was separate from the gun and just how great & visceral the feedback from it was. I agree with pretty much everything he said (not only regarding gunplay but everything else in that video) So hearing the news that he had joined the dev team was great, but I do wonder - has there been any discussions within the team about these things? Do any of the other devs feel similar to DOJ on these issues, will we ever see changes to make the gunplay and overall combat feel engaging again?

I'm not a dev nor do I have the credentials to be one, but what I do know is that I managed to have more fun with the combat in 0.62 despite the game being a buggy mess, surely that says something about the design of the current system.

To quote DOJ himself, "hooly shit it was so good."

Thanks for reading and interacting on the forums @Kyiara and for any potential response.

[Pyongo Bongo 187]

On 9/6/2023 at 8:35 AM, lakevu said:

this seems to be the answer i keep getting. that its not just adam. so then it is impossible for me to say whether he truly understands the game and accurately evaluate him [...]

While playing Namalsk i really got the impression that he is probably the best project or creative lead for DayZ.

Not only can you tell how passionate he is about his work by him crafting what is pretty much a (inofficial) full size DLC in his FREE TIME FOR FREE.

But while playing Namalsk I really got the impression that he understands DayZ perfectly.

Atmosphere, player interaction (wether hostile or friendly) and HARDCORE survival ASWELL as exploration have huge emphasis in Namalsk.

Namalsk leans towards the things which define DayZ more than vanilla.

Except for the Gordon freeman suit xD

Edited September 7, 2023 by Pyongo Bongo

[lakevu 77]

16 hours ago, SleeperZ said:

They have made the game less serious and easier because they want money. Appealing to casuals is what you do when your game is failing so you make it very user friendly and simple to understand so that it can reach a larger audience. They're focusing on useless content instead of reworking features that they remade in a day for the full release(0.63). It also feels like the game is going down a competitive root, everyone is sprinting around, leaning spamming at every chance they get and applying filters to see better at night and day. 

i agree. but what allowed this? how is this allowed to continue to happen without outrage?

because dayz lacks a firm understanding of its own identity and what "it" really is.

and because of that it is allowed to get away with casualizing gameplay and arcadizing the game because nobody made the argument and proved it that dayz is a hardcore zombie survival simulator. not a shooter.

 

if dayz had a more concrete identity of what it IS then it would be irrefutable and undeniable that these choices are not what SHOULD be.

[lakevu 77]

13 hours ago, Jevez said:

"Keeping the aesthetic of the game intact is important and this kinda stuff ain't it."

 

this my friend is the virtue of integrity. the pursuit of keeping something 100% whole and uncontradictory with itself. 

[lakevu 77]

53 minutes ago, Pyongo Bongo said:

While playing Namalsk i really got the impression that he is probably the best project or creative lead for DayZ.

Not only can you tell how passionate he is about his work by him crafting what is pretty much a (inofficial) full size DLC in his FREE TIME FOR FREE.

But while playing Namalsk I really got the impression that he understands DayZ perfectly.

Atmosphere, player interaction (wether hostile or friendly) and HARDCORE survival ASWELL as exploration have huge emphasis in Namalsk.

Namalsk leans towards the things which define DayZ more than vanilla.

Except for the Gordon freeman suit xD

i am not saying adam is a bad guy or that he lacks passion for "something". but just because you are passionate about chemistry does not mean you understand the fundamentals of chemistry. if you get my analogy.

this does not change my current analysis of him that he takes the tools he is given and creates on top of that. not having to question the deeper things that made those tools possible. like movement mechanics, gunplay mechanics, rendering technology that massively effects the overall aesthetic of the game. all questions you never need to ask when you just take what you are given and make a map and story to go with it. things that are far deeper than that and set the groundwork for you to do anything.

 

and once again if this isnt true and he does have a deep understanding of the game why have we not seen massive overalls of these systems in 5 years? as they are massively incongruent to how the game SHOULD be. unless you lack the understanding to question those things and cant conceive of how they may be conflicting with the overall experience of the game?

 

but then again apparently adam isnt even in charge but yet we talk of him like he is. so who is really at fault here? is it adam or the "other people" who dont understand it and he does?

Edited September 7, 2023 by lakevu

[Kyiara 743]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:55 PM, Jevez said:

While I think some of the other things you said were pretty rude, I do agree with these points here.

The tone of the game has definitely shifted in a wrong direction, overall the tone is reflected in many things, but includes those you mentioned.

Trailers/Marketing can definitely set the tone, and I agree some things such as the 1.20 trailer were goofy and out of place for the type of game DayZ is (or was)

The recent 1.22 trailer was great however, loved the atmosphere, music and editing in that trailer, feels much more fitting to DayZ, please more like that! - BUT at the end of the trailer we have more out of place stuff once again, a guy wearing a neon pink/green hip pack with the words "PARTY animal" written on it.. I really dislike that these sort of things are being added, the normal hip packs are cool but who actually wanted that one? Keeping the aesthetic of the game intact is important and this kinda stuff ain't it.

Movement/Gunplay, the changes to these systems that made them more arcadey has drastically changed the tone of the game, when more "COD-like" gameplay is allowed the way people play and the feel of everything is turned on its head.

The feeling of slower paced tactical gameplay is gone when you can now sprint full speed at people and hipfire spray fully accurate with your static crosshair, hold breath for 1 second and instantly have 0 sway while standing, even after sprinting for 10 minutes etc. Guns have 0 recoil and feel boring to shoot now, among other things. Also the old stamina system where your sway would increase based on how long you were sprinting for (and you'd hear you character breathing heavier, no need for a HUD) was really great. These issues were immediately apparent after 0.63 released and there was lots of discussion around it at the time, yet the arcadey gameplay remains today.

One of the current DayZ developers, DOJ, uploaded a video before he joined the dev team discussing things such as the old recoil, how the camera was separate from the gun and just how great & visceral the feedback from it was. I agree with pretty much everything he said (not only regarding gunplay but everything else in that video) So hearing the news that he had joined the dev team was great, but I do wonder - has there been any discussions within the team about these things? Do any of the other devs feel similar to DOJ on these issues, will we ever see changes to make the gunplay and overall combat feel engaging again?

I'm not a dev nor do I have the credentials to be one, but what I do know is that I managed to have more fun with the combat in 0.62 despite the game being a buggy mess, surely that says something about the design of the current system.

To quote DOJ himself, "hooly shit it was so good."

Thanks for reading and interacting on the forums @Kyiara and for any potential response.

Going through a lot of channels, what I've learned is that you simply can't make everyone happy. I believe that in many cases, people would just argue about what is better or worse based on personal preferences, often without considering the wider context.
I'm not entirely sure how "drastically" things have changed, as we both know that certain things mentioned here are simply not true (e.g., a 10-minute sprint, zero recoil, etc.), but I think I understand what you were trying to say.
What I am thinking is:
If the things that were changed for worse (in your opinion or few other players here) were not changed, do you think DayZ would become as big as it did in the past few months? Because most of the mentioned changes were done before the player base got bigger. Obviously we don't know, this is just a guess. But if it would be the reason, there is a possibility that If the game would not be so successful now, could there be further development maintained? Had those changes have impact on that?
I don't want to say that the game has to adapt to be successful - like listening only to certain feedback, not the core players etc. I actually know it's not the case because this team values all the players and specially those that are with the game for all those years. But there is so much to the development. 
This team is truly listening to the feedback and evaluating all decisions. Some may not agree with the direction but I am not sure If there was a clear direction at the beginning, or more of a vision that could not be fully realised. I mean, the game was a mod. I believe that all of you here are playing this game probably for years and that already means something. It actually means A LOT. It for sure means a lot to us, but maybe it's also showing that the game is not "that bad" after all.
So my question is, If certain changes that some of you don't like hadn't happened, would the game still be where it is now? Were those changes really that bad that you would not enjoy the gameplay anymore? Does something small, like a pink hip pack, actually make the game worse?

There is plenty of discussion happening within the team. But anyone who's worked in a gaming company knows it's not about personal opinions. There are many things to consider before making changes. I've worked at four gaming companies, and it's the same everywhere. Do we have the time for it, do we have the people for it, is it technically possible at this moment, will it really be better for the game, how is it affecting other aspects of the game and so on.

Last but not least. I am not in position to say who is right or wrong, I am also very causal player that is hardly complaining about game changes (in all games I play), because I am trying to understand the development team and the reasons behind their steps. I mean, which studio or gaming company would like to go against their players? What would be the benefit from that? 😉
But please, keep providing the feedback; we will always appreciate it, even if you feel like no one is listening or no one cares. Trust me, we care, and your feedback will always be valuable to us. There just might not be the right place and time to make such changes. But it will always remain being considered.

[SleeperZ 50]

12 minutes ago, Kyiara said:

 as we both know that certain things mentioned here are simply not true (e.g., a 10-minute sprint, zero recoil, etc.)
 

What he means here is that you can sprint around and regenerate 1 second worth of stamina that can be used to hold their breath and that eliminates all sway from the gun, that is something the old release got right, you were punished for playing the game like a quake. the recoil compared to 0.63 is too little, weapons that should have a high kick such as the mozin dont and only jump about an .5 inch worth of pixels up your screen then returning perfectly to the centre of your screen. - https://imgur.com/a/AsVrHfw Also sniping is OP because of this, you need to add more factors that will make you miss other than just bad aim.

One last thing from 0.63 that you should consider is that when leaning your character should be force walked and there should be a slight delay from lean spamming left and right, and you should remove the ability to lean which looting/looking in inventory. And neft holding breath mechanic 

[lakevu 77]

14 hours ago, Kyiara said:

Going through a lot of channels, what I've learned is that you simply can't make everyone happy. I believe that in many cases, people would just argue about what is better or worse based on personal preferences, often without considering the wider context.
I'm not entirely sure how "drastically" things have changed, as we both know that certain things mentioned here are simply not true (e.g., a 10-minute sprint, zero recoil, etc.), but I think I understand what you were trying to say.
What I am thinking is:
If the things that were changed for worse (in your opinion or few other players here) were not changed, do you think DayZ would become as big as it did in the past few months? Because most of the mentioned changes were done before the player base got bigger. Obviously we don't know, this is just a guess. But if it would be the reason, there is a possibility that If the game would not be so successful now, could there be further development maintained? Had those changes have impact on that?
I don't want to say that the game has to adapt to be successful - like listening only to certain feedback, not the core players etc. I actually know it's not the case because this team values all the players and specially those that are with the game for all those years. But there is so much to the development. 
This team is truly listening to the feedback and evaluating all decisions. Some may not agree with the direction but I am not sure If there was a clear direction at the beginning, or more of a vision that could not be fully realised. I mean, the game was a mod. I believe that all of you here are playing this game probably for years and that already means something. It actually means A LOT. It for sure means a lot to us, but maybe it's also showing that the game is not "that bad" after all.
So my question is, If certain changes that some of you don't like hadn't happened, would the game still be where it is now? Were those changes really that bad that you would not enjoy the gameplay anymore? Does something small, like a pink hip pack, actually make the game worse?

There is plenty of discussion happening within the team. But anyone who's worked in a gaming company knows it's not about personal opinions. There are many things to consider before making changes. I've worked at four gaming companies, and it's the same everywhere. Do we have the time for it, do we have the people for it, is it technically possible at this moment, will it really be better for the game, how is it affecting other aspects of the game and so on.

Last but not least. I am not in position to say who is right or wrong, I am also very causal player that is hardly complaining about game changes (in all games I play), because I am trying to understand the development team and the reasons behind their steps. I mean, which studio or gaming company would like to go against their players? What would be the benefit from that? 😉
But please, keep providing the feedback; we will always appreciate it, even if you feel like no one is listening or no one cares. Trust me, we care, and your feedback will always be valuable to us. There just might not be the right place and time to make such changes. But it will always remain being considered.

for a little context.

dayz standalone when it released in 2013 sold 1 million copies in the first month, 2 million in 4 months.

the market spoke and people. millions of people bought the game knowing it was hard. because that was and IS its identity. and they bought it because thats exactly what they wanted and wanted more of it.

 

but to change the foundational mechanics of the game to the baby like mechanics we have now and usher in a completely new audience of people that want those baby like experiences and claim "look how big the game is! wow isnt it doing great!" without thinking that it might be different type of people being attracted is crazy. so to give this reason of "do you think the game would be big now because of the changes" is just ridiculous. the game was already big! and it dropped the ball when it first came out and failed expectations. because it was garbage and failed to provide even a fraction of content the mod did. so sure the player base got "bigger" but with what kind of people? adults? or children?

 

dayz has become as big as it is right now because it now caters to the braindead. simple minded, children that dont care about the deep experience the game was before. all they care about is a big map and zombies and people to kill. not to be a surreal survival simulation but just to be a shooter. cod with a bigger map

 

and yes you are right. you can not make everyone happy. when you make a game for everyone. you make a game for no one. and in this case "making a game for everyone" meant lowering the bar of difficulty so low to attract every person possible even at the cost of not having integrity to what the game even stands for. or STOOD for to begin with.

 

there is no conflict here! millions of people bought the game in 2013 when it first released with the expectation of it being hard and millions of people will return when it comes back to being hard! the only thing that will be lost is all these children that think quickscoping with a mosin to take away everything a man has worked for ingame for hours is an actual level of achievement and think they deserve it. and have a meltdown when their gun isnt acting like a lazer beam on their screen where they actually have to have some skill and knowledge to play the game. besides pointing the center of their screen on the target and left clicking.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by lakevu

[lakevu 77]

14 hours ago, SleeperZ said:

What he means here is that you can sprint around and regenerate 1 second worth of stamina that can be used to hold their breath and that eliminates all sway from the gun, that is something the old release got right, you were punished for playing the game like a quake. the recoil compared to 0.63 is too little, weapons that should have a high kick such as the mozin dont and only jump about an .5 inch worth of pixels up your screen then returning perfectly to the centre of your screen. - https://imgur.com/a/AsVrHfw Also sniping is OP because of this, you need to add more factors that will make you miss other than just bad aim.

One last thing from 0.63 that you should consider is that when leaning your character should be force walked and there should be a slight delay from lean spamming left and right, and you should remove the ability to lean which looting/looking in inventory. And neft holding breath mechanic 

my favorite part is when guns shoot but its doesnt even move and just the end of the barrel seems to snap up and down. like it wiggles up and down in front of you but the gun stays locked to your screen and doesnt move. its hilarious!

[Jevez 28]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:53 PM, Kyiara said:

Going through a lot of channels, what I've learned is that you simply can't make everyone happy. I believe that in many cases, people would just argue about what is better or worse based on personal preferences, often without considering the wider context.

Sure, this will be true of any change to the game.

Quote

I'm not entirely sure how "drastically" things have changed, as we both know that certain things mentioned here are simply not true (e.g., a 10-minute sprint, zero recoil, etc.), but I think I understand what you were trying to say.

Umm I don't think so? I'm not lying to overexaggerate if that's what you're saying, as far as I'm aware everything I said is still the truth.

Last time I checked you can indeed sprint for however long you want and then hold your breath for 1 second and have 99% of sway instantly reduced, even while standing. In previous versions your character essentially had an "out of breath" meter which would increase your weapon sway the longer you sprinted, this was also conveyed to the player by the character breathing very heavily.

Hipfire accuracy is also extremely good while strafing side to side, your gun and crosshair remain static and it's pretty effortless. Previously the gun would sway across the screen and your crosshair would follow it, meaning that you had to be precise and take your time to land shots, now the crosshair is just static and always accurate, even while strafing.

Recoil technically exists sure, but it's so extremely low in comparison that you might as well say zero. I can't emphasise enough how good it felt to shoot in 0.62, the higher recoil combined with that "wave of energy" feeling that DOJ describes from the separate weapon/camera movement was really amazing. Shooting just feels so boring now. 😕

Quote

If the things that were changed for worse (in your opinion or few other players here) were not changed, do you think DayZ would become as big as it did in the past few months? Because most of the mentioned changes were done before the player base got bigger. Obviously we don't know, this is just a guess. But if it would be the reason, there is a possibility that If the game would not be so successful now, could there be further development maintained? Had those changes have impact on that?

Well as you say there's no way to know, 0.63 changed so much at once that we cannot know the individual impact of each change.
But I personally believe that yes, the player base could easily reach this size with the old gunplay mechanics.

People didn't quit DayZ from 2013-2018 because of the gunplay, they quit because the game was fundamentally broken in nearly every aspect and they were tired of waiting for promised updates that never arrived.
Not only did 0.63 fix core fundamental issues with the game, it also introduced modding, revamped the animation system, melee, gunplay, movement and much more all at once. 
If we imagine a world where the core design of the gunplay was maintained but everything else from 0.63 happened the same way, I have no doubt the game would be doing great, perhaps even better, who knows?

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Some may not agree with the direction but I am not sure If there was a clear direction at the beginning, or more of a vision that could not be fully realised. I mean, the game was a mod.

We're not talking about the mod though, but about the early access alpha of DayZ standalone. The game maintained this system throughout its 5 year alpha period, so I tend to believe that it was the original vision.

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I believe that all of you here are playing this game probably for years and that already means something. It actually means A LOT. It for sure means a lot to us, but maybe it's also showing that the game is not "that bad" after all.

Well, just because I complain about these changed mechanics doesn't mean I think the entire game is bad, there are many great aspects to the game and there always has been, which is why people played in 2014 even though it was a complete disaster. Even if the game was "that bad" a lot of people would still play or at least follow development, because DayZ has unmatched potential and it's always possible to improve.

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So my question is, If certain changes that some of you don't like hadn't happened, would the game still be where it is now? Were those changes really that bad that you would not enjoy the gameplay anymore? Does something small, like a pink hip pack, actually make the game worse?

1. I think so yes. The changes that I believe had a big impact on the success of DayZ are ones that I approve of, such as fixing the fundamental bugs, the animation system and modding.
2. Kind of? DayZ can be an enjoyable experience, but when it comes to combat I'm left with a feeling of "this used to be so much more fun" and a desire to see a hybrid of the old and new systems, the old design of gunplay merged with the animation and smoothness improvements from Enfusion.
3. In my opinion yes it does, while it doesn't impact gameplay directly it has no place in the world and ruins immersion, when I see an item like that I just think "but why..?" From my point of view I just see that it's out of place, nobody asked for it and dev time was spent creating it, there's only negatives. The other hip packs are nice however.

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There is plenty of discussion happening within the team. But anyone who's worked in a gaming company knows it's not about personal opinions. There are many things to consider before making changes. I've worked at four gaming companies, and it's the same everywhere. Do we have the time for it, do we have the people for it, is it technically possible at this moment, will it really be better for the game, how is it affecting other aspects of the game and so on.

I'm aware that a lot goes into it but I'm curious of their opinions because at the end of the day their opinions are the most important, if the dev team feels that the current system is amazing then there's a 0% chance that it ever gets changed regardless of other factors.

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I am also very causal player that is hardly complaining about game changes (in all games I play), because I am trying to understand the development team and the reasons behind their steps. I mean, which studio or gaming company would like to go against their players? What would be the benefit from that?

This just feels like an insult to be honest, I also try to understand the development team and the reasons for the things they do, but if something is changed that I think makes the game worse why wouldn't I complain about that? I want the game to improve.

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But please, keep providing the feedback; we will always appreciate it, even if you feel like no one is listening or no one cares. Trust me, we care, and your feedback will always be valuable to us. There just might not be the right place and time to make such changes. But it will always remain being considered.

I'm sure that's true, and I know there's a lot to consider. It's just frustrating when an aspect of the game you really enjoyed is suddenly removed and is still absent 5 years later, with seemingly no interest from the developers in discussing this topic (at least not publicly) you get to a point where you feel like you should just move on.

[Riddick_2K 125]

Sorry but...
Talk a lot about what DayZ "should be" and discuss game mechanics and added and missing items...
I remind you that this is the official definition of DayZ (taken from the official 3xW . bohemia . net/games/dayz website):
"The post-Soviet country of Chernarus is struck by an unknown virus, turning the majority population into frenzied infected. Fighting over resources has bred a hostile mentality among survivors, driving what's left of humanity to collapse. You are one of the few immune to the virus - how will you go to survive?
DayZ is an unforgiving, authentic, open world sandbox online game where each one of 60 players on a server follows a single goal - to survive as long as they can, by all means necessary."
Therefore this is also the "official lore" of the game: Fight for resources and survive as long as possible.
And yet... despite the purpose of the game, this company carries out "Wipes" as if they were a spring or autumn cleaning.
If this isn't "breaking the game", ruining the real purpose of the game, destroying the lore of the game.
Read my full post in this thread, without me repeating everything again:
forums . dayz . com /topic/254783-121-server-wipe-announcement/?tab=comments#comment-2485369

What do you expect from a company like this ?!?

What you are discussing... may be right... but it always remains discussions of "goat's wool", or of the "sex of angels" if you put into play the concept of: "what DayZ should really be"
This company cyclically destroys what DayZ "should really be" with Wipes!
That's the main damage... that's "the Demon" of DayZ...
Everything else, even if substantially correct, is just trifles...

😠  😦  🤢

[Jevez 28]

6 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

And yet... despite the purpose of the game, this company carries out "Wipes" as if they were a spring or autumn cleaning.
If this isn't "breaking the game", ruining the real purpose of the game, destroying the lore of the game.
This company cyclically destroys what DayZ "should really be" with Wipes!
That's the main damage... that's "the Demon" of DayZ...
Everything else, even if substantially correct, is just trifles...

I understand that wipes can be frustrating if you're someone who does base building etc, but I have to disagree that it's more important than the games core mechanics.

A wipe happens 1-2 times per year, these other mechanics you encounter every time you play the game.

[lakevu 77]

9 hours ago, Jevez said:

"Sure, this will be true of any change to the game."

 

not necessarily true. as long as the change is in line with the games IDENTITY or WHAT IT IS. then it would not be upsetting

 

the key is to hear people and analyze whether what they are mad about is actually congruent with the IDENTITY of the game. if its people angry about mechanics not emulating shooters with twitch mechanics and they are mad.

they dont matter.

because they have no foundation to stand on as that is not what dayz IS. and thus can be disregarded

[lakevu 77]

7 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

Sorry but...
Talk a lot about what DayZ "should be" and discuss game mechanics and added and missing items...
I remind you that this is the official definition of DayZ (taken from the official 3xW . bohemia . net/games/dayz website):
"The post-Soviet country of Chernarus is struck by an unknown virus, turning the majority population into frenzied infected. Fighting over resources has bred a hostile mentality among survivors, driving what's left of humanity to collapse. You are one of the few immune to the virus - how will you go to survive?
DayZ is an unforgiving, authentic, open world sandbox online game where each one of 60 players on a server follows a single goal - to survive as long as they can, by all means necessary."
Therefore this is also the "official lore" of the game: Fight for resources and survive as long as possible.
And yet... despite the purpose of the game, this company carries out "Wipes" as if they were a spring or autumn cleaning.
If this isn't "breaking the game", ruining the real purpose of the game, destroying the lore of the game.
Read my full post in this thread, without me repeating everything again:
forums . dayz . com /topic/254783-121-server-wipe-announcement/?tab=comments#comment-2485369

What do you expect from a company like this ?!?

What you are discussing... may be right... but it always remains discussions of "goat's wool", or of the "sex of angels" if you put into play the concept of: "what DayZ should really be"
This company cyclically destroys what DayZ "should really be" with Wipes!
That's the main damage... that's "the Demon" of DayZ...
Everything else, even if substantially correct, is just trifles...

😠  😦  🤢

one key word here is "authentic"

this implies many things especially how the character SHOULD move and how guns SHOULD act. authentically.

 

both of which are completely unauthentic and are merely arcade.

 

like seriously can you tell me that having the crosshair locked to the center of the screen instead of it tracking the end of the barrel like it did before is "authentic"?

i dont think so.

 

i believe "authentic" is also used in place of realistic. a word Dean himself was said to want to achieve as a synonym to realism. and nothing about the current game, or very littel parts of it, are realistic anymore. 

its arcade. degraded. and devolved for the sake of children

[Jevez 28]

19 hours ago, lakevu said:

not necessarily true. as long as the change is in line with the games IDENTITY or WHAT IT IS. then it would not be upsetting

Oh you can definitely make changes that the majority will like for sure, what I meant was that no matter what you change there will always be some group of people (even if they're the 1%) that will hate it, and that shouldn't be used as an excuse to avoid making those changes, especially if they make the game more authentic.

[lakevu 77]

12 hours ago, Jevez said:

Oh you can definitely make changes that the majority will like for sure, what I meant was that no matter what you change there will always be some group of people (even if they're the 1%) that will hate it, and that shouldn't be used as an excuse to avoid making those changes, especially if they make the game more authentic.

that is absolutely true. but what is important is if that HATE is based on the identity of the game or it isnt. and if those people hate the change and their reasoning is not based on the games identity. then their outrage is null and void and does not matter.

 

if the change is congruent to the games identity then there is no reason to hate it. otherwise the hate is not based on the identity of the game and just blind personal whims. not actual objective understanding of what the game IS and what it SHOULD BE.

 

like seriously think of one change that if it was congruent to the games identity would be met with hate?

[Riddick_2K 125]

On 9/10/2023 at 9:30 PM, Jevez said:

I understand that wipes can be frustrating if you're someone who does base building etc, but I have to disagree that it's more important than the games core mechanics.

A wipe happens 1-2 times per year, these other mechanics you encounter every time you play the game.

NO !
Wipes are not "frustrating for base builders." This statement means that you understand little about DayZ and the "substance" of him.
Read carefully what the story of DayZ is, the purpose of DayZ, the "logical thread" on which it was written... the "sense of the game" for which it is advertised and sold:

By W W W . bohemia . net/games/dayz
"The post-soviet country of Chernarus is struck by an unknown virus, turning the majority population into frenzied infected. Fighting over resources has bred a hostile mentality among survivors, driving what's left of humanity to collapse. You are one of the few immune to the virus - how far will you go to survive?
DayZ is an unforgiving, authentic, open world sandbox online game where each one of 60 players on a server follows a single goal - to survive as long as they can, by all means necessary."

"Wipes" are the interruption of the game, the cancellation of the possible victory, the annihilation of the purpose of the game, they are worse than the cheater who kills everyone in the server (because they also delete your hidden deposits), it would be like a cheater who would kill everyone and would wipe out all the deposits and annihilate all the bases. It's the same principle, as far as the purpose of the game itself.
I, personally, don't give much weight to bases anymore, they are always very difficult to hide, but it's fun to do them and see if you were smarter or more careful than others by seeing how long they last without raids. But what matters, given how poor the protection of the bases as they are written now (they seem to be made of butter), are the hidden deposits... the ones where you accumulate tools, medicines and food that allows you to continue to survive better and better and always safer... and every day you add to your survival, it's one step closer to victory... which is not a "set point", but the "increasing number" of days that you are still alive and have survived!
(cit):
"follows a single goal - to survive as long as they can, by all means necessary."
This is DayZ!
This is what DayZ is all about!
This is the point of the game as DayZ is advertised and sold!
The Wipes KILL this!
Simple.
Those who don't understand it, evidently, have NOT understood the very essence of DayZ!
And there isn't much to discuss or quibble about... It's NOT a "matter of opinions" or "points of view"! Just read the text describing the game "DayZ"!
That is !
(cit):
"follows a single goal - to survive as long as they can, by all means necessary."
Go read it, if you haven't understood it yet!

 

🙄  😠

[Riddick_2K 125]

On 9/10/2023 at 9:43 PM, lakevu said:

one key word here is "authentic"

this implies many things especially how the character SHOULD move and how guns SHOULD act. authentically.

 

both of which are completely unauthentic and are merely arcade.

 

like seriously can you tell me that having the crosshair locked to the center of the screen instead of it tracking the end of the barrel like it did before is "authentic"?

i dont think so.

 

i believe "authentic" is also used in place of realistic. a word Dean himself was said to want to achieve as a synonym to realism. and nothing about the current game, or very littel parts of it, are realistic anymore. 

its arcade. degraded. and devolved for the sake of children

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with it too... I too, a long time ago I complained about some of the absurdities and unrealistic choices of these programmers... from the backpacks that you have to empty to store them, the increasingly difficult fences and tents to be mounted on terrain that is not perfectly straight and paired with each other, the consumption of tools, shoes, weapons... the exaggerated and constant hunger of the doll... and many other unrealistic absurdities that now don't even come to mind... .
But the point I wanted to make is an "order of priority" on "severity and impact of the flaw on the game".
I'll try to explain better with an example:
A) A heavy piece of furniture falls on your foot and you are left lame. Ugly and very annoying.
B) A branch enters your eye and you lose half your sight. Much more serious and annoying.
C) You get hit by a landslide and die. This is more serious than anything, because you are dead.
Now...
I don't want to quibble about what bothers you (rightly) and what I have listed regarding the absurdities and unrealisms of the game... what is "A" and what is "B"... but "Wipe" is certainly condition "C" = EVERYTHING DELETED!
No ?!?
Nobody gets there?!?

😧

[Misnomera 52]

3 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

NO !
Wipes are not "frustrating for base builders." This statement means that you understand little about DayZ and the "substance" of him.
Read carefully what the story of DayZ is, the purpose of DayZ, the "logical thread" on which it was written... the "sense of the game" for which it is advertised and sold:

By W W W . bohemia . net/games/dayz
"The post-soviet country of Chernarus is struck by an unknown virus, turning the majority population into frenzied infected. Fighting over resources has bred a hostile mentality among survivors, driving what's left of humanity to collapse. You are one of the few immune to the virus - how far will you go to survive?
DayZ is an unforgiving, authentic, open world sandbox online game where each one of 60 players on a server follows a single goal - to survive as long as they can, by all means necessary."

"Wipes" are the interruption of the game, the cancellation of the possible victory, the annihilation of the purpose of the game, they are worse than the cheater who kills everyone in the server (because they also delete your hidden deposits), it would be like a cheater who would kill everyone and would wipe out all the deposits and annihilate all the bases. It's the same principle, as far as the purpose of the game itself.
I, personally, don't give much weight to bases anymore, they are always very difficult to hide, but it's fun to do them and see if you were smarter or more careful than others by seeing how long they last without raids. But what matters, given how poor the protection of the bases as they are written now (they seem to be made of butter), are the hidden deposits... the ones where you accumulate tools, medicines and food that allows you to continue to survive better and better and always safer... and every day you add to your survival, it's one step closer to victory... which is not a "set point", but the "increasing number" of days that you are still alive and have survived!
(cit):
"follows a single goal - to survive as long as they can, by all means necessary."
This is DayZ!
This is what DayZ is all about!
This is the point of the game as DayZ is advertised and sold!
The Wipes KILL this!
Simple.
Those who don't understand it, evidently, have NOT understood the very essence of DayZ!
And there isn't much to discuss or quibble about... It's NOT a "matter of opinions" or "points of view"! Just read the text describing the game "DayZ"!
That is !
(cit):
"follows a single goal - to survive as long as they can, by all means necessary."
Go read it, if you haven't understood it yet!

 

🙄  😠

wipes are a necessary part of the game for many reasons and it would become very stale without them. They indeed are particularly troubling for builders since all of their hard work building and resource gathering is put to waste, but ultimately building is a waste of time either way. Many months without a wipe allows the player to resource gather and survive long enough to have a good experience, id agree with you if the wipes were every month or two, but that's not the case here 

[lakevu 77]

10 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with it too... I too, a long time ago I complained about some of the absurdities and unrealistic choices of these programmers... from the backpacks that you have to empty to store them, the increasingly difficult fences and tents to be mounted on terrain that is not perfectly straight and paired with each other, the consumption of tools, shoes, weapons... the exaggerated and constant hunger of the doll... and many other unrealistic absurdities that now don't even come to mind... .
But the point I wanted to make is an "order of priority" on "severity and impact of the flaw on the game".
I'll try to explain better with an example:
A) A heavy piece of furniture falls on your foot and you are left lame. Ugly and very annoying.
B) A branch enters your eye and you lose half your sight. Much more serious and annoying.
C) You get hit by a landslide and die. This is more serious than anything, because you are dead.
Now...
I don't want to quibble about what bothers you (rightly) and what I have listed regarding the absurdities and unrealisms of the game... what is "A" and what is "B"... but "Wipe" is certainly condition "C" = EVERYTHING DELETED!
No ?!?
Nobody gets there?!?

😧

i see what you are saying

 

doesnt vanilla follow a much longer wipe schedule? like every 3 months or something? or every update? i do believe it is very long term.

 

but when it comes to private servers i would say its up to the discretion of the owners and how long they want to go. nevermind what type of stress that causes the server having that many things for that long...