Stab Vest OP

[Pyongo Bongo 237]

A stab vest stops Mosin Bullets (25HP left), Tundra Bullets (25hp) and even a straight up MP133 Shotgun slug (45hp!) POINT BLANK. (stab vests are common within two minutes of spawning)

If the gun is TOUCHING THE GUYS CHEST RIGHT WHERE HIS HEART IS AND YOU SHOOT HE WILL TAKE A SHORT NAP AND BE FINE AFTERWARDS! xD

This feels VERY wong, the biggest, loudest,most badass guns feell like little peashooters and the game is not hardcore if you get a second chance after being hit by them IN THE HEART.

This leads to anyone inside a house being very safe from any gun except for the blaze, because the target gets knocked out and drops behind the windowsill where you can no longer shoot them.

It is incredibly frustrating to get a good sniper position unseen, craft a suppressor or get one out of the toxic zone, measure the range and zero your scope, hit the shot in the one second the guy shows himself in the window, only for him to take a nap and then either camp inside forever or just disappear through the back door.

I am never unarmored in this game, the first thing I do is grap a police vest two minutes after spawning.

This really feels like the game is holding the baby players hand, "don't cry we give you a second chance!"

 

It is less of a stretch that Press and Plate Vests do this, but you can see where a STAB vest shouldn't be completely bulletproof.

 

 

[DefectiveWater 539]

I agree, stab vests are a bit too strong vs basically endgame snipers.

And yet somehow just one shot to the torso by M4 almost kills you if you have no armor (90+ damage at distance <50 meters at 900 RPM). Wearing anything but armor is not worth the risk.

 

[RZ0R 65]

It's only OP against players who sit in a bush 200m away with a scoped rifle. It doesnt't stand up in a fire fight against anything automatic at all.

Just because you can't one-shot a guy eating his beans while he's looting doesn't make it OP. The stab vest makes dirty snipers think about their follow-up and puts the onus onto them to at least take SOME risk when approaching for the kill. Can't live in that bush forever folks, take some risk.

 

[Pyongo Bongo 237]

21 hours ago, RZ0R said:

It's only OP against players who sit in a bush 200m away with a scoped rifle. It doesnt't stand up in a fire fight against anything automatic at all..

For me it's OP because its so unrealistic. It just feels so wrong that people survive point blank shots with the biggest guns that can penetrate houses and metal but not a STAB vest apparently. It also feels so contrary to the whole "DayZ is a hardcore game where you can loose everything in the blink of an eye" image.

 

AND i get triggered when i snipe some guy eating beans but he survives and runs away xD

[DefectiveWater 539]

Since we are talking about stab vest, what about press vest? How should it be balanced or is it fine how it is?

also if any BI/DayZ devs are reading, can we get replacable plates for plate carrier with varying levels of protection (repairing with epoxy or sewing kit is funny)? thanks ❤️ (inb4: "We can't due to technical limitations" 🙄)

Edited September 5, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[RZ0R 65]

On 9/5/2022 at 8:53 AM, Pyongo Bongo said:

For me it's OP because its so unrealistic. It just feels so wrong that people survive point blank shots with the biggest guns that can penetrate houses and metal but not a STAB vest apparently. It also feels so contrary to the whole "DayZ is a hardcore game where you can loose everything in the blink of an eye" image.

 

AND i get triggered when i snipe some guy eating beans but he survives and runs away xD

The hunger system isn't 'realistic'. Characters don't even need to sleep in this 'hardcore game' or go to the toilet.

It's a game.

[DefectiveWater 539]

44 minutes ago, RZ0R said:

The hunger system isn't 'realistic'. Characters don't even need to sleep in this 'hardcore game' or go to the toilet.

It's a game.

Thing is, realistic isn't good. What is good is immersive, intuitive and somewhat balanced progression.

Lowest tier armor such as stab vest completely countering best snipers in the game is wack.
Nobody carries unarmored vests just because stab vest offers so much for so little weight. Having extra slots isn't worth it when finding a 40 slot backpack is easy.
There's just too many inventory slots in the game that stab vest not having any isn't really a noticeable penalty.

Plate VS tundra/mosin: uncon till 230/280 meters (tundra being weaker than mosin).
Stab vest VS tundra/mosin: uncon till 450/510 meters (again, tundra is weaker)

Difference in weight and rarity doesn't justify such minor differences - outcome of a fight will always be the same at distances less than 230/280m, uncon then death.
Stab vest should offer less health protection, but just enough so that best snipers can one shot in the close-mediumish range. If necessary give a bit of a durability buff to the stab vest so that it's more useful against smaller guns.

Stab vest needs a nerf, and fixing armor with epoxy/sewing kits needs to go. Stab and Press vests should be a one time use, Plate carrier should have replacable armor plates and that way it should be the only piece of armor that can be fixed - heavy, sturdy, but fixable.

Edited September 7, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[RZ0R 65]

3 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Stuff

The best snipers in the game are obtainable in low tier areas though? There needs to be a counter within those areas.

Being an easy one-shot to the body by a pesky sniper hanging around the coast is OP in a game that already punishes the player so hard for dying IMO.

I like the stab vest as it is. They should change it's name though as stab vest is misleading.

How do you counter the stab vest?

Stalk, reposition, be selective as to when you take your shot. K.O them in a field for example. Or, get a head shot.

Nerfing the stab vest would only benefit the brain dead bush wookie strat, as far as I can see. 

I think there needs to be some decent protection within the first 15-20 minutes of spawning, before you can get a Plate Carrier. That's just my opinion though.

[Misnomera 69]

2 hours ago, RZ0R said:

The best snipers in the game are obtainable in low tier areas though? There needs to be a counter within those areas.

yeah, Topolin (spawn town) is basically a Savannah, Tundra, and Mosin factory, it's kinda absurd. Endgame long-guns should be moved further south or the lower tier ones are rendered totally useless. I've actually never had to use a pioneer or Cr527 because a better alternative is easier to find, and I dont even need to find a mag if it's the Tundra, Blaze, or Mosin.

Sidenote about the snipers, imo it wouldve been better if a very high tier military bolt action (like an SV98) was added instead of another hunting bolty (savannah); the military version would have a scope with mil dots, an SR suppressor attachment, bipod attachment, and be mag-fed, differentiating it from the hunting rifles. Plus, it wouldnt spawn in freshy towns.

[Misnomera 69]

6 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

 

Stab vest needs a nerf, and fixing armor with epoxy/sewing kits needs to go. Stab and Press vests should be a one time use, Plate carrier should have replacable armor plates and that way it should be the only piece of armor that can be fixed - heavy, sturdy, but fixable.

I like the idea about the replaceable armor plates. Carrying a bunch of epoxy is too easy right now. Maybe the plate carrier should have limited number of times it can be repaired; by the third time you repair it, it should only be able to go to a "damaged" state (first repair being when you get it off a zombie)

[RZ0R 65]

 

1 hour ago, Misnomera said:

yeah, Topolin (spawn town) is basically a Savannah, Tundra, and Mosin factory, it's kinda absurd. Endgame long-guns should be moved further south or the lower tier ones are rendered totally useless. I've actually never had to use a pioneer or Cr527 because a better alternative is easier to find, and I dont even need to find a mag if it's the Tundra, Blaze, or Mosin.

Sidenote about the snipers, imo it wouldve been better if a very high tier military bolt action (like an SV98) was added instead of another hunting bolty (savannah); the military version would have a scope with mil dots, an SR suppressor attachment, bipod attachment, and be mag-fed, differentiating it from the hunting rifles. Plus, it wouldnt spawn in freshy towns.

Agreed. The game does need at least one long range capable (bolt?) military rifle and scope. I've always found it weird that the hunting rifles/mosin are end game because you find them so soon.

Same thoughts about the CR527 and Pioneer, what's the point? I don't bother with them. I wouldn't mind them moving the Mosin, Blaze, Savanna and Tundra inland and bringing the max spawn rate down to make them rarer. Utilise the CR527 and Pioneer more for mid-game.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by RZ0R

[DefectiveWater 539]

16 hours ago, RZ0R said:

The best snipers in the game are obtainable in low tier areas though? There needs to be a counter within those areas.

So fix best sniper spawning in low tier areas. Move them deeper in the land.

14 hours ago, Misnomera said:

I've actually never had to use a pioneer or Cr527 because a better alternative is easier to find

Exactly this.

14 hours ago, Misnomera said:

Maybe the plate carrier should have limited number of times it can be repaired; by the third time you repair it, it should only be able to go to a "damaged" state (first repair being when you get it off a zombie)

Maybe vest and the plates should have separate damaged values. Leather sewing kit for the plate vest, and protection repair specifically needs a new plate to replace the old one, but whatever they do I just hope they make it make some sense.

Repairing armor with leather sewing kit or epoxy is funny.

Edited September 8, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[Pyongo Bongo 237]

On 9/7/2022 at 10:58 PM, RZ0R said:

The best snipers in the game are obtainable in low tier areas though? There needs to be a counter within those areas. 

No 😄

My opinion on this is just no, why does this need a counter? The game is not an arena shooter where every class and power has to be balanced so its a fair fight?

I can just pickup a tire wrench and stand behind the door in the PD, that is even deadlier than a crusty coast mosin with one bullet and no scope.

 

On 9/7/2022 at 10:58 PM, RZ0R said:

 

Being an easy one-shot to the body by a pesky sniper hanging around the coast is OP in a game that already punishes the player so hard for dying IMO. 

I want death to be even easier to "achieve" xD. You didn't pay attention to the nice freshie you are helping and he stabbed you in the heart with a kitchen knife? dead!

The Stab vest is also a blessing for coast campers. There was a guy in the hospital shooting people out the window in Berez, I took a position, put on my suppressor, got the range, shot him right in the chest with my winchester right as he peeked outside to murder more innocent hobos.

He just took a short nap and went back to shooting hobos because of his unrealistically indestructible stab vest, I really felt a strong disappointment with the game in that moment. (he went ko under the window where he cannot be shot)

 

On 9/7/2022 at 10:58 PM, RZ0R said:

 

Being an easy one-shot to the body by a pesky sniper hanging around the coast is OP in a game that already punishes the player so hard for dying IMO. 

I like death being around every corner, this is what really defines and puts apart DayZ from other boring games that are too scared to have immersive deaths.

The snipers on the coast will also face more danger if the vest is nerfed, many coast guns will one-shot those coast campers too if the vest is made realistic.

[RZ0R 65]

1 hour ago, Pyongo Bongo said:

No 😄

My opinion on this is just no, why does this need a counter? The game is not an arena shooter where every class and power has to be balanced so its a fair fight?

I can just pickup a tire wrench and stand behind the door in the PD, that is even deadlier than a crusty coast mosin with one bullet and no scope.

 

I want death to be even easier to "achieve" xD. You didn't pay attention to the nice freshie you are helping and he stabbed you in the heart with a kitchen knife? dead!

The Stab vest is also a blessing for coast campers. There was a guy in the hospital shooting people out the window in Berez, I took a position, put on my suppressor, got the range, shot him right in the chest with my winchester right as he peeked outside to murder more innocent hobos.

He just took a short nap and went back to shooting hobos because of his unrealistically indestructible stab vest, I really felt a strong disappointment with the game in that moment. (he went ko under the window where he cannot be shot)

 

I like death being around every corner, this is what really defines and puts apart DayZ from other boring games that are too scared to have immersive deaths.

The snipers on the coast will also face more danger if the vest is nerfed, many coast guns will one-shot those coast campers too if the vest is made realistic.

How are you having such an issue with the stab vest?

You shoot them and when they are unconscious you can kill them very easily.

What are you having trouble with exactly?

[DefectiveWater 539]

I'm not the guy who you quoted, but I'll reply with my take on it.

40 minutes ago, RZ0R said:

You shoot them and when they are unconscious you can kill them very easily.

Why does lowest tier armor do the same as plate carrier?
Both are generally always uncon if you get shot by "best" snipers, and always almost results in death if they have a line of sight on you - plate being a bit better over distance.

I think stab vest is too strong considering how common it is.

40 minutes ago, RZ0R said:

How are you having such an issue with the stab vest?

Because in vanilla people wake up from uncon in like 5 seconds. So if you don't have a line of sight on them (for instance if they are in a building), they can get up and camp the doorway.

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[RZ0R 65]

Just now, DefectiveWater said:

Why does lowest tier armor do the same as plate carrier?
Both are generally always uncon if you get shot by "best" snipers, and always almost results in death if they have a line of sight on you - plate being a bit better over distance.

I think stab vest is too strong considering how common it is.

Because in vanilla people wake up from uncon in like 5 seconds. So if you don't have a line of sight on them (for instance if they are in a building), they can get up and camp the doorway.

A plate carrier can tank two shots.

I can run to Zeleno from spawn and get a plate carrier within 15 minutes. How common should a stab vest be? 

Right, so you know that is likely to happen, so don't shoot them in a building? That's what I do anyway. Or, shoot them in the head. 

The uncon system needs work for sure. I'd rather see the plate carrier tank more shock damage from a rifle shot and just knockback/stagger, buffing the plate carrier, rather than nerfing the stab vest.

 

 

[Pyongo Bongo 237]

5 hours ago, RZ0R said:

You shoot them and when they are unconscious you can kill them very easily. 

It makes NO SENSE, it is insanely unrealistic and i like realism and hardcore deaths. You can see guns on youtube shooting through all kinds of metal and concrete 🙂

You can shoot through concrete Walls with a winchester but not through a light vest.

I always loved DayZ for authenticity and hardcoreness, this vest is the complete opposite of what I like about DayZ.

Often you can double tap, but there are also many occasions where the person drops behind an obstacle and wakes up to spray you, run away forever or just camp. (a second chance, not hardcore)

With plates this is how it should be (realistic), but if every player instantly can have a stabvest that unrealistically gives you a second life it does not feel like my DayZ idea.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Pyongo Bongo

[Tonyeh 454]

Very little in the game makes sense. You can make rope from people's guts for god's sake. You can make a "bone knife" by presumably rubbing two pieces of bone together.

[RZ0R 65]

1 hour ago, Tonyeh said:

Very little in the game makes sense. You can make rope from people's guts for god's sake. You can make a "bone knife" by presumably rubbing two pieces of bone together.

Yea, but no one cares about that. Only the guns and armour are held against 'realism'. Didn't you know?

Edited September 9, 2022 by RZ0R

[DefectiveWater 539]

28 minutes ago, RZ0R said:

Yea, but no one cares about that. Only the guns and armour are held against 'realism'. Didn't you know?

On 9/7/2022 at 7:10 PM, DefectiveWater said:

Thing is, realistic isn't good. What is good is immersive, intuitive and somewhat balanced progression.

Imagine a new player:
He finds a stab vest, gets shot by a .308, goes uncon, dies.
Next life he finds a plate carrier, loses like a quarter of his stamina due to weight and it's bright tan color isn't ideal, gets shot by a .308, goes uncon, dies.

Is that balanced or intuitive progression? It's not if you ask me.

6 hours ago, RZ0R said:

The uncon system needs work for sure. I'd rather see the plate carrier tank more shock damage from a rifle shot and just knockback/stagger

I agree, plate needs a buff too along with all of my other suggestions. Press vest could serve as an in-between stab vest and plate carrier protection wise, slightly closer to plate but with less durability (and inability to be repaired)

Edited September 9, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[RZ0R 65]

15 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

Imagine a new player:
He finds a stab vest, gets shot by a .308, goes uncon, dies.
Next life he finds a plate carrier, loses like a quarter of his stamina due to weight and it's bright tan color isn't ideal, gets shot by a .308, goes uncon, dies.

Is that balanced or intuitive progression? It's not if you ask me.

DayZ is not intuitive. Any new player will find themselves heading for the wiki for many reasons before being confused about the behavior of the body armour.

You eat raw rice FFS lol. When I first started playing, I intuitively tried to boil it.

[DefectiveWater 539]

18 minutes ago, RZ0R said:

DayZ is not intuitive. Any new player will find themselves heading for the wiki for many reasons before being confused about the behavior of the body armour.

You eat raw rice FFS lol. When I first started playing, I intuitively tried to boil it.

True, and that's a huge issue. DayZ should be more intuitive, it's a survival game afterall. Intuition should be key. Currently it's only hard for new players because it's not intuitive.

Wiki says stuff like: You can find rocks on gravel paths, so players walk on the paths finding no rocks.
Why's that? Well it's because those rocks only spawn after few minutes if there's a player nearby *facepalm*. By the time the rocks spawn you could already find a sharp tool that will serve you better than DIY stone knife.

Also, why can't we tear a shirt into rags with bare hands? At least one single rag that we can use, that would be nice and intuitive.

Edited September 9, 2022 by DefectiveWater
shortened one line