Let’s talk about the M4

[Tommygunz89 24]

Take the RPM down to 600! EVERY PLAYER IS RUNNIN A DAMN M4 what’s the point of adding all these new guns when NO ONE IS GOING TO USE THEM! I get it, you didn’t want the Famas to be more dominant…ITS NOT!! the famas has a small mag capacity, no optic, no suppressor THE M4 ON THE OTHER HAND HAS

6x OPTIC

60 ROUND MAG 

900 RPM 

BUTT AND HAND ATTACHMENTS FOR BETTER HANDLING 

DURABLE SUPPRESSOR 

BAYONET

O yeah and while on the subject of suppressors

WATER BOTTLE SUPPRESSOR 1 SHOT AND DONE 

how you gonna have a “realistic” game and have some CHEESY shit like that… please take this into consideration…

you will probably have some backlash against this, just remember the people that are gonna complain about this are just cheesy players that that need to get better 

Ok rant over….

Edited March 27, 2022 by Tommygunz89

[eZthetic 22]

I think it is pretty well balanced the way it is like now to be honest. There are still plenty of people that would take an akm over an m4 any day, and who would choose any of those two when you might get your hands on a lar?

 

Just get better at it.

[Tommygunz89 24]

1 hour ago, eZthetic said:

I think it is pretty well balanced the way it is like now to be honest. There are still plenty of people that would take an akm over an m4 any day, and who would choose any of those two when you might get your hands on a lar?

 

Just get better at it.

O boy here comes the cheese 🙄

Is your rebuttal really “someone out there somewhere will use the AKM”!!! The fact that you didn’t come out saying “I prefer the AKM over the M4” just proves my point. In regards to LAR it is BALANCED it hits hard, but can’t take suppressor, low mag capacity, rare to find, only takes 1 attachment for recoil/sway. In other words LAR is a dope weapon but has limitations. Do you understand? M4 has no limitations.

ITS A SIMPLE FIX BRING RPM DOWN! It was still a great gun before! It never needed an RPM buff! 
 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Tommygunz89

[Derleth 1357]

28 minutes ago, Tommygunz89 said:

O boy here comes the cheese 🙄

Is your rebuttal really “someone out there somewhere will use the AKM”!!! The fact that you didn’t come out saying “I prefer the AKM over the M4” just proves my point. In regards to LAR it is BALANCED it hits hard, but can’t take suppressor, low mag capacity, rare to find, only takes 1 attachment for recoil/sway. In other words LAR is a dope weapon but has limitations. Do you understand? M4 has no limitations.

ITS A SIMPLE FIX BRING RPM DOWN! It was still a great gun before! It never needed an RPM buff! 

 

DayZ isn't CoD, Apex, BF or any other pew pew shooter with a scoreboard and actual objective to kill as many players as you can. That a huge part of the community play it like that doesn't make it so. It doesn't need to be balanced like a competitive shooter. The M4 has that rate of fire because it has that rate of fire. Does that make it beastly in combat? Yes. Is that actually accurate? Yes. Does it need to change? No.

Some guns are better than others, that's just how it is, DayZ has already gone too much down the road of gamey balancification of some weapon stats, such as muzzle velocity and totally arbitrary damage values, audible ranges of gunfire and some other things, they sure as heck don't need to make it even worse by nerfing M4 rate of fire because "then nobody wants an AK". In the vanilla game getting your hands on an M4 is hard. They only drop in chem zones, so you need to find full NBC and gear yourself to deal with all others who are headed in there with the same idea. It's a risk vs reward thing, if you get your hands on the M4 you have either done it the hard way or killed someone who did it the hard way and taken their prize.

Servers providing anyone and his mother with M4:s due to bloated loot economies and/or traders have no bearing on this. The devs cannot and should not take that into consideration when they make design and balance decisions. If M4 is OP on Roger Rabbit's Pew Pew server then it is Roger Rabbit's own responsibility to take measures to change that, not the game devs.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Derleth

[DefectiveWater 528]

11 minutes ago, Derleth said:

Is that actually accurate? Yes.

(talking about rate of fire)

Is it really accurate though? does a bog standard military issued M4 shoot at 900 RPM with no issues?

I'm fine if stuff is OP or whatever so long as it's reflecting a real life version gun.
I still don't get why do bolt actions HAVE to have higher damage for no reason (i remember this being an issue at first, but I think they nerfed it a bit - scout and cr527)
Just make them more common (and better guns rarer) if a gun isn't good enough at it's current rarity.

Edited March 27, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[Tommygunz89 24]

7 minutes ago, Derleth said:

DayZ isn't CoD, Apex, BF or any other pew pew shooter with a scoreboard and actual objective to kill as many players as you can. That a huge part of the community play it like that doesn't make it so. It doesn't need to be balanced like a competitive shooter. The M4 has that rate of fire because it has that rate of fire. Does that make it beastly in combat? Yes. Is that actually accurate? Yes. Does it need to change? No.

Some guns are better than others, that's just how it is, DayZ has already gone too much down the road of gamey balancification of some weapon stats, such as muzzle velocity and totally arbitrary damage values, audible ranges of gunfire and some other things, they sure as heck don't need to make it even worse by nerfing M4 rate of fire because "then nobody wants an AK". In the vanilla game getting your hands on an M4 is hard. They only drop in chem zones, so you need to find full NBC and gear yourself to deal with all others who are headed in there with the same idea. It's a risk vs reward thing, if you get your hands on the M4 you have either done it the hard way or killed someone who did it the hard way and taken their prize.

Servers providing anyone and his mother with M4:s due to bloated loot economies and/or traders have no bearing on this. The devs cannot and should not take that into consideration when they make design and balance decisions. If M4 is OP on Roger Rabbit's Pew Pew server then it is Roger Rabbit's own responsibility to take measures to change that, not the game devs.

Well first of all I’m exclusively talking about official, I should have said that from the start. The M4s ORIGINAL fire rate was 600 for like a decade 😂they changed it around the time the famas came out for some reason, like they were afraid the M4 would be de-throned or something. If the M4 is so hard to get why is it that every gun fight I get into I either find the damn thing on the dead body or hear the distinct sound of it being fired through a suppressor before I die  🤣

[Derleth 1357]

12 minutes ago, Tommygunz89 said:

Well first of all I’m exclusively talking about official, I should have said that from the start. The M4s ORIGINAL fire rate was 600 for like a decade 😂they changed it around the time the famas came out for some reason, like they were afraid the M4 would be de-throned or something. If the M4 is so hard to get why is it that every gun fight I get into I either find the damn thing on the dead body or hear the distinct sound of it being fired through a suppressor before I die  🤣

The M4 rate of fire was not higher before because of a quirk (or bug if you will) with how the DayZ engine handles networking and the rate of fire with weapons. Now that that issue was fixed the M4 could finally receive its proper rate of fire. Because yes, the in-game rof now matches that it has in real life. The famas is also reknowned for its high rate of fire, so that it came about at the same time a high rate of fire was finally possible is no surprise. The MP5 and Scorpion also received significant buffs to their rate of fire in the same patch.

[Tommygunz89 24]

21 minutes ago, Derleth said:

The M4 rate of fire was not higher before because of a quirk (or bug if you will) with how the DayZ engine handles networking and the rate of fire with weapons. Now that that issue was fixed the M4 could finally receive its proper rate of fire. Because yes, the in-game rof now matches that it has in real life. The famas is also reknowned for its high rate of fire, so that it came about at the same time a high rate of fire was finally possible is no surprise. The MP5 and Scorpion also received significant buffs to their rate of fire in the same patch.

You keep saying that the m4 has to have the fire rate it has in real life, but if we apply that same logic to the famas then it should be firing over 1000 rpm, but you’re not complaining about that🤔…so now we are stuck with an m4 that fires as fast as a famas….so much for your “realism”.The fact of the matter is ITS NOT REAL LIFE  it doesn’t need to have exact fire rates it’s more important the guns FEEL balanced until they can fix their outdated engine. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Tommygunz89

[ZBA 66]

All military guns should be like 75% more rare

[DefectiveWater 528]

53 minutes ago, Tommygunz89 said:

You keep saying that the m4 has to have the fire rate it has in real life, but if we apply that same logic to the famas then it should be firing over 1000 rpm, but you’re not complaining about that🤔…so now we are stuck with an m4 that fires as fast as a famas….so much for your “realism”.The fact of the matter is ITS NOT REAL LIFE  it doesn’t need to have exact fire rates it’s more important the guns FEEL balanced until they can fix their outdated engine. 

Yeah, I feel like what he have now is a compromise between having it have high rate of fire and an engine that can't do 600-900 RPM range.
As well as FAMAS having same ROF as M4 when it should be faster.

Can anyone dig through game files to see what ROF was set for the M4? I wonder if they actually intended it to have 900 RPM or is it just a compromise/engine bug as I said.

[Tommygunz89 24]

1 minute ago, DefectiveWater said:

Yeah, I feel like what he have now is a compromise between having it have high rate of fire and an engine that can't do 600-900 RPM range.
As well as FAMAS having same ROF as M4 when it should be faster.

Can anyone dig through game files to see what ROF was set for the M4? I wonder if they actually intended it to have 900 RPM or is it just a compromise/engine bug as I said.

I think the problem was something along the lines of they can only set fire rates to multiples of 3, so the fire rates are limited. 

[DefectiveWater 528]

3 minutes ago, Tommygunz89 said:

I think the problem was something along the lines of they can only set fire rates to multiples of 3, so the fire rates are limited. 

Yeah I know that, but what I'm saying is that they wanted a high ROF gun, and the only available ROF is 900 RPM. So all "high ROF guns" are at 900. Next increment is 1800 RPM which would be absolutely bonkers.

So that 900 RPM = high rof (m4, famas, mp5, as val). I don't think they picked 900 RPM for the M4 just cause wikipedia says 700-950 RPM, but because their engine can't handle ~800 RPM, and 900 is closer to 800 compared to 600 to 800.

Edited March 27, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[Tommygunz89 24]

2 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

Yeah I know that, but what I'm saying is that they wanted a high ROF gun, and the only available ROF is 900 RPM. So all "high ROF guns" are at 900. Next increment is 1800 RPM which would be absolutely bonkers.

So that 900 RPM = high rof (m4, famas, mp5, as val). I don't think they picked 900 RPM for the M4 just cause wikipedia says 700-950 RPM, but because their engine can't handle ~800 RPM.

M4 fire rate in real life is apparently between 700-900.Famas fire rate is above 1100 I’m just saying round the numbers down so the guns that are above 1000 still FEEL like they have that higher fire rate. Then, obviously you would have to also round down the M4. M4 is still an OP weapon at 600 RPM. It’s just a good balance, but whatever, if they actually did it everyone would start crying about it 🙄

[DefectiveWater 528]

8 minutes ago, Tommygunz89 said:

I’m just saying round the numbers down so the guns that are above 1000 still FEEL like they have that higher fire rate.

Agreed, for now they should make a clear differentiation between m4 rate of fire and famas. (600 m4, 900 famas)

Hopefully they eventually change the system which I really doubt they will, but m4 at 900 RPM makes famas less unique.

Edited March 27, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[eZthetic 22]

3 hours ago, Tommygunz89 said:

O boy here comes the cheese 🙄

Is your rebuttal really “someone out there somewhere will use the AKM”!!! The fact that you didn’t come out saying “I prefer the AKM over the M4” just proves my point. In regards to LAR it is BALANCED it hits hard, but can’t take suppressor, low mag capacity, rare to find, only takes 1 attachment for recoil/sway. In other words LAR is a dope weapon but has limitations. Do you understand? M4 has no limitations.

ITS A SIMPLE FIX BRING RPM DOWN! It was still a great gun before! It never needed an RPM buff! 

 

Your point doesn't prove any of the things I mentioned in my first comment. I prefer the M4 over the AKM but would take the LAR over both of them any day. My teammates though prefer the AKM over the M4 because it knocks out way faster due to higher shock damage. They all have their ups and downs and that's what makes it great that you can choose based on personal preference. Plus I own an M4 in real aswell so I have some kind of special love and preference for it anyway.

 

The standard colt m4 carbine has a rpm of 700-950 bullets per minute, most likely depending on .cal, so why would you do 600 in DayZ anyway when it all comes down to being reality-near?

Edited March 27, 2022 by eZthetic

[Tommygunz89 24]

18 minutes ago, eZthetic said:

Your point doesn't prove any of the things I mentioned in my first comment. I prefer the M4 over the AKM but would take the LAR over both of them any day. My teammates though prefer the AKM over the M4 because it knocks out way faster due to higher shock damage. They all have their ups and downs and that's what makes it great that you can choose based on personal preference. Plus I own an M4 in real aswell so I have some kind of special love and preference for it anyway.

 

The standard colt m4 carbine has a rpm of 700-950 bullets per minute, most likely depending on .cal, so why would you do 600 in DayZ anyway when it all comes down to being reality-near?

“AKM knocks out way faster” 
your acting like that one extra shot it takes for 5.56 to drop someone matters 🤦‍♂️
it doesn’t, especially when 90% of everyones gunfight strategy (on console) is just running up on someone and going full auto 🙄

[-Gews- 7443]

The official rate of fire is "700-950 rpm". I checked 8 random videos of US Army soldiers firing M4/M4A1 on full auto and the average cyclic rate in those was 780 rpm, the video with the lowest rate at 731 rpm and the one with the highest at 835 rpm.

780 rpm is closer to 900 than to 600.


Maybe if there is a "DayZ 2", the developers will figure out a way to put a rate of fire between 600 and 900 rpm. It must be a difficult task, but I think some other video games can do it. Maybe I'm wrong!

[DefectiveWater 528]

50 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

Maybe if there is a "DayZ 2", the developers will figure out a way to put a rate of fire between 600 and 900 rpm. It must be a difficult task, but I think some other video games can do it. Maybe I'm wrong!

😂

[Derleth 1357]

11 hours ago, -Gews- said:

The official rate of fire is "700-950 rpm". I checked 8 random videos of US Army soldiers firing M4/M4A1 on full auto and the average cyclic rate in those was 780 rpm, the video with the lowest rate at 731 rpm and the one with the highest at 835 rpm.

780 rpm is closer to 900 than to 600.


Maybe if there is a "DayZ 2", the developers will figure out a way to put a rate of fire between 600 and 900 rpm. It must be a difficult task, but I think some other video games can do it. Maybe I'm wrong!

Was it you or somebody else who explained the whys and hows of the correlation between the server/client net communication and rate of fire? I know I've seen it here on the forum a while back last time this was being discussed. 

[eZthetic 22]

16 hours ago, Tommygunz89 said:

“AKM knocks out way faster” 
your acting like that one extra shot it takes for 5.56 to drop someone matters 🤦‍♂️
it doesn’t, especially when 90% of everyones gunfight strategy (on console) is just running up on someone and going full auto 🙄

Of course it does. Not all pvp situations are on close combat. That one shot of the AKM might knock you out but that one shot of the M4 might make you lose your target behind walls/trees/whatever without knock.

But it's fine. You have your opinion and I have mine. You are seeing what the majority in here thinks about yours though.

[-Gews- 7443]

16 hours ago, Derleth said:

Was it you or somebody else who explained the whys and hows of the correlation between the server/client net communication and rate of fire? I know I've seen it here on the forum a while back last time this was being discussed. 

I found it a long time ago but didn't know why, someone else reported the actual cause on Feedback Tracker. It's because the player simulation is run at 30 Hz. So the interval between shots must be a multiple of 30 Hz. 

[WOLVERlNES 135]

Our group doesn’t have any M4s — haven’t been in a permanent toxic zone yet.

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

@-Gews- Imagine if every time you found a weapon in DayZ, the rate of fire was randomized to that particular weapon... 10 m4a1’s on the server and each one has differing rates of fire between 700-850 rpm; furthermore, maybe rpm would be affected by the condition the gun spawns in.