EzyStriderPS4 191 Posted January 16, 2022 Since the devs are probably never going to add vitals, here is my proposal for more sim damage numbers. Shock needs to be nerfed quite a bit in my opinion also. We don’t have time for that here. Format = Damage from 10m or less (center-mass) to Unarmored/Stab/Press/Plate — Caliber and weapon. 140/135/95/90 — 7.62x54 Mosin and SVD 130/120/90/85 — 7.62x51 Tundra 120/110/80/55 — 7.62x51 FAL 105/100/65/45 — 7.62x39 SKS, BK, and CR-527 100/ 90/55/35 — 7.62x39 AKM 55/ 55/50/45 — 9x39AP VAL and VSS 50/ 40/25/18 — 9x39 VAL and VSS 105/100/60/35 — 5.56 Scout 105/100/65/40 — .357 Repeater 75/ 70/55/30 — 5.56 M-16, AUG, and Famas 50/ 45/40/24 — 5.56 M4-A1 and AK-101 40/ 35/30/20 — 5.45 AK-74 35/ 33/25/15 — 5.45 AKS-74U 50/ 40/30/18 — .45 UMP 33/ 30/20/13 — 9X19 MP-5K 33/ 30/20/13 — .380 Skorpion THESE NUMBERS ARE APPROXIMATIONS BASED ON AMMO CALIBER AND BARREL LENGTH. PISTOL DAMAGE SHOULD BE SCALED ACCORDINGLY. Heavier, less aerodynamic rounds (9x39, .45, .357, 7.62x39, etc.) will be less effective as range increases than more high-power and aerodynamic rounds (7.62x51&54, 5.45, 5.56). A professional suppressor should buff weapon damage because it increases barrel length, thus increasing acceleration and energy. I don’t care if you are McGeyver, an improvised suppressor should decrease weapon damage because of craftsmanship and fitment. Furthermore, suppressors should be varied by caliber not gun type. P.S. Newbs, please stop referring to suppressors as silencers. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jappe Hallunken 16 Posted January 29, 2022 But that wouldn't be realistic at all: IRL the AK has a rate of fire of 600 rpm. The M4 has around 700–950. It#s just more accurate, when the M4 has a higher RPM than the AKs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boggle 36 Posted January 31, 2022 I've never fired a legit fully auto M4, but I've fired an AR15 semi-auto with a bump stock, and it drains a 30rd mag in about 3 seconds. I think people are splitting hairs to be honest... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boggle 36 Posted January 31, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 10:55 AM, EzyStriderPS4 said: Since the devs are probably never going to add vitals, here is my proposal for more sim damage numbers. Shock needs to be nerfed quite a bit in my opinion also. We don’t have time for that here. Format = Damage from 10m or less (center-mass) to Unarmored/Stab/Press/Plate — Caliber and weapon. 140/135/95/90 — 7.62x54 Mosin and SVD 130/120/90/85 — 7.62x51 Tundra 120/110/80/55 — 7.62x51 FAL 105/100/65/45 — 7.62x39 SKS, BK, and CR-527 100/ 90/55/35 — 7.62x39 AKM 55/ 55/50/45 — 9x39AP VAL and VSS 50/ 40/25/18 — 9x39 VAL and VSS 105/100/60/35 — 5.56 Scout 105/100/65/40 — .357 Repeater 75/ 70/55/30 — 5.56 M-16, AUG, and Famas 50/ 45/40/24 — 5.56 M4-A1 and AK-101 40/ 35/30/20 — 5.45 AK-74 35/ 33/25/15 — 5.45 AKS-74U 50/ 40/30/18 — .45 UMP 33/ 30/20/13 — 9X19 MP-5K 33/ 30/20/13 — .380 Skorpion THESE NUMBERS ARE APPROXIMATIONS BASED ON AMMO CALIBER AND BARREL LENGTH. PISTOL DAMAGE SHOULD BE SCALED ACCORDINGLY. Heavier, less aerodynamic rounds (9x39, .45, .357, 7.62x39, etc.) will be less effective as range increases than more high-power and aerodynamic rounds (7.62x51&54, 5.45, 5.56). A professional suppressor should buff weapon damage because it increases barrel length, thus increasing acceleration and energy. I don’t care if you are McGeyver, an improvised suppressor should decrease weapon damage because of craftsmanship and fitment. Furthermore, suppressors should be varied by caliber not gun type. P.S. Newbs, please stop referring to suppressors as silencers. Wouldn't suppressors reduce velocity since they're a chamber that allows the pressure to suddenly decrease (because volume increases in the suppressor)....PV=nRT ? The whole point of a suppressor is to slow the speed of the bullet to close or below the sound barrier, correct? (I don't really know, just asking) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DefectiveWater 491 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, boggle said: Wouldn't suppressors reduce velocity since they're a chamber that allows the pressure to suddenly decrease (because volume increases in the suppressor)....PV=nRT ? The whole point of a suppressor is to slow the speed of the bullet to close or below the sound barrier, correct? (I don't really know, just asking) Nope, suppressors don't slow down bullets. Suppressors slow down the gas from escaping from the barrel at extremely high speeds, thus lowering it's energy and subsequently sound. Bullet gains all the velocity in the barrel as the gas keeps expanding at extremely high speeds. As the bullet enters the suppressor, it already has achieved it's max potential velocity, as it keeps going, gas behind it is being slowed, but the bullet is unaffected. What you are talking about is subsonic ammunition which has much lower muzzle velocity. To explain it in simple words: Big boom = more energy = more speed = supersonic (makes a loud crack as it leaves the barrel) Smaller boom = less energy = less speed = subsonic (doesn't make a loud crack) Combine subsonic with suppressors and you will have really quiet rifles at the cost of lesser stopping power (because of the subsonic ammo, not the suppressor), but also you should have less recoil. Suppressors with supersonic rounds are still REALLY LOUD, and far from the "pew pew" sound effects that you see in the movies and nobody bats an eye. In best case scenario you might even have a higher velocity with a suppressor as it might serve as a "barrel extension", but gains might be miniscule to none. Note: not a gun guy though, so my explanation might be subpar. Edited January 31, 2022 by DefectiveWater 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boggle 36 Posted January 31, 2022 14 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said: Nope, suppressors don't slow down bullets. Suppressors slow down the gas from escaping from the barrel at extremely high speeds, thus lowering it's energy and subsequently sound. Bullet gains all the velocity in the barrel as the gas keeps expanding at extremely high speeds.As the bullet enters the suppressor, it already has achieved it's max potential velocity, as it keeps going, gas behind it is being slowed, but the bullet is unaffected. What you are talking about is subsonic ammunition which has much lower muzzle velocity. To explain it in simple words: Big boom = more energy = more speed = supersonic (makes a loud crack as it leaves the barrel) Smaller boom = less energy = less speed = subsonic (doesn't make a loud crack) Combine subsonic with suppressors and you will have really quiet rifles at the cost of lesser stopping power (because of the subsonic ammo, not the suppressor), but also you should have less recoil. Suppressors with supersonic rounds are still REALLY LOUD, and far from the "pew pew" sound effects that you see in the movies and nobody bats an eye. In best case scenario you might even have a higher velocity with a suppressor as it might serve as a "barrel extension", but gains might be miniscule to none. Note: not a gun guy though, so my explanation might be subpar. So if it's reached it's max velocity, the suppressor won't cause the acceleration of the bullet to increase as the velocity is constant, correct? So at the very least, the suppressor has zero impact on velocity of the bullet compared to no suppressor. I AM a gun guy, but not well versed in suppressor's or their impact. Guess we could google it if we really cared lol. But in terms of for this game, I think everyone is splitting hairs with all of this. Just my opinion.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DefectiveWater 491 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, boggle said: So if it's reached it's max velocity, the suppressor won't cause the acceleration of the bullet to increase as the velocity is constant, correct? So at the very least, the suppressor has zero impact on velocity of the bullet compared to no suppressor. I AM a gun guy, but not well versed in suppressor's or their impact. Guess we could google it if we really cared lol. But in terms of for this game, I think everyone is splitting hairs with all of this. Just my opinion.... Yeah, suppressors should in general have (near) zero impact on the bullet velocity, but at the exit of the barrel and beginning of the suppressor, gas is still at extremely high pressure (still pushing the bullet forward just a bit more) - as it goes through the suppressor gas gets slowed down. So that extra length of the suppressor can cause some increase in velocity, depending on how quickly it slows down gas. Edited January 31, 2022 by DefectiveWater Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boggle 36 Posted January 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said: Yeah, suppressors should in general have zero impact on the bullet velocity, but at the exit of the barrel and beginning of the suppressor, gas is still at extremely high pressure - as it goes through the suppressor it gets slowed down, so that can cause some increase in velocity. Not sure I follow that...if it slows down, that means it's decreasing in velocity...unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Kind of a side note, this site has lots of great info on firearms based on real testing by bored retired Vets: boxotruth.com but they don't really dive into the physics of suppressors. Still googling that as I'm intrigued...kind of want to get one for my AR now....lol. But that would require the tax stamp, background check, and a new barrel...so maybe I'll just use it as an excuse to get another handgun, maybe another 9mm, with a threaded barrel 😁 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DefectiveWater 491 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, boggle said: Not sure I follow that...if it slows down, that means it's decreasing in velocity...unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Kind of a side note, this site has lots of great info on firearms based on real testing by bored retired Vets: boxotruth.com but they don't really dive into the physics of suppressors. Still googling that as I'm intrigued...kind of want to get one for my AR now....lol. But that would require the tax stamp, background check, and a new barrel...so maybe I'll just use it as an excuse to get another handgun, maybe another 9mm, with a threaded barrel 😁 It does slow down, but it doesn't slow down immediately. There's still some usable energy from the gas until it slows down enough. That's what I'm trying to say. "A suppressor will typically increase the muzzle velocity of ammunition and maintain if not improve shot group." Maybe my explanation has been poor as my understanding of it all isn't up to par, but the general consensus from what I know is that suppressors can increase muzzle velocity.https://www.gemtech.com/silencers-do-more - source for the quote Edited January 31, 2022 by DefectiveWater Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boggle 36 Posted February 4, 2022 (edited) On 1/31/2022 at 4:46 PM, DefectiveWater said: It does slow down, but it doesn't slow down immediately. There's still some usable energy from the gas until it slows down enough. That's what I'm trying to say. "A suppressor will typically increase the muzzle velocity of ammunition and maintain if not improve shot group." Maybe my explanation has been poor as my understanding of it all isn't up to par, but the general consensus from what I know is that suppressors can increase muzzle velocity.https://www.gemtech.com/silencers-do-more - source for the quote Learned something new, thanks! Also, when I referenced PV=nRT I failed to account for the fact that the pressure is ever increasing due to the energy that's still there. If the bullet was stopped in the suppressor, and the combustion was complete, so the pressure was static, then yes, that static pressure from the bullet being in the barrel vs in the suppressor, would in fact decrease due to the increase in volume of the suppressor's chamber. But all of that is moot since the combustion process is ongoing until the bullet leaves the barrel. (ideally the cartridge is loaded so the powder is fully burned right as the bullet has left the barrel). Edited February 4, 2022 by boggle 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
