Decrease desire to KOS constantly?

[WYLDCHYLD6666 11]

Simple answer to having rp on the server find a community server that has everything your looking for 

You see the biggest problem with the public server. Is not the players it's the loot when you do finally find a good place with hi pop is the loot can't Corp with the amount of people on the server this is because the loot system counts all the loot on the map on your self and in your stash. So if you have 5 established groups on a server and there hording 5 ak and each group has 5 members in and all have  5 ak's  that total of 75 ak the set to spawn in 80 that will leave 5 ak on the hole map to try and to find one will be shit that works for the gear to and know the vanilla server are set very low ie the aks are set to 10 so you won't find a ak on a hi pop server unless someone dies are loses it the loot needs to be adjusted to pop count before you think about rp are pvp and even pve 

[Tristan Cooper 12]

Honestly not taking advantage of the tools and features offered to players is rather annoying to me. I think this problem just boils down to humanity. We suck. 
 

suggestion time: maybe we combine some of these, I like the “getting used to it” and the more options. (I would much rather be tortured and left half dead than just shotgunned when i have a zucchini) so if players had a negative effect after the first kill, but more options that scratch the same itch then they could use the voice chat for once. And an idea of my own, if players could choose to be a pshyco/sociopath or a sane person with benefits and drawbacks to each. Maybe the crazies don’t have the getting used to it part, but they have slightly faster food consumption? And the sane people have the effects of a murder, but maybe their character is super jumpy and frail after combat. Just ideas and I’m not really into them.

[DefectiveWater 539]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:35 AM, WYLDCHYLD6666 said:

Simple answer to having rp on the server find a community server that has everything your looking for 

You see the biggest problem with the public server. Is not the players it's the loot when you do finally find a good place with hi pop is the loot can't Corp with the amount of people on the server this is because the loot system counts all the loot on the map on your self and in your stash. So if you have 5 established groups on a server and there hording 5 ak and each group has 5 members in and all have  5 ak's  that total of 75 ak the set to spawn in 80 that will leave 5 ak on the hole map to try and to find one will be shit that works for the gear to and know the vanilla server are set very low ie the aks are set to 10 so you won't find a ak on a hi pop server unless someone dies are loses it the loot needs to be adjusted to pop count before you think about rp are pvp and even pve 

Not correct. Hoarded up stuff doesn't count for the CLE anymore.

AK101 - count_in_cargo="0" count_in_hoarder="0" count_in_map="1" count_in_player="0" crafted="0" deloot="0"
AK74 -  count_in_cargo="0" count_in_hoarder="0" count_in_map="1" count_in_player="0" crafted="0" deloot="0"
AKM - count_in_cargo="0" count_in_hoarder="0" count_in_map="1" count_in_player="0" crafted="0" deloot="0"
AKS74U - count_in_cargo="0" count_in_hoarder="0" count_in_map="1" count_in_player="0" crafted="0" deloot="0"
M4A1 - count_in_cargo="0" count_in_hoarder="0" count_in_map="1" count_in_player="0" crafted="0" deloot="0"
FAL - count_in_cargo="0" count_in_hoarder="0" count_in_map="1" count_in_player="1" crafted="0" deloot="1"

Just a few examples, but this is pretty much for all guns if I'm not mistaken.
So as you can see, guns like AK74 don't even have "count_in_player" tag. So if you had 200 people with AK74s, and server only allowed 5 to spawn, it will still spawn 5 of them.

Edited December 26, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[General Zod 1118]

6 hours ago, Tristan Cooper said:

Honestly not taking advantage of the tools and features offered to players is rather annoying to me. I think this problem just boils down to humanity. We suck. 
 

suggestion time: maybe we combine some of these, I like the “getting used to it” and the more options. (I would much rather be tortured and left half dead than just shotgunned when i have a zucchini) so if players had a negative effect after the first kill, but more options that scratch the same itch then they could use the voice chat for once. And an idea of my own, if players could choose to be a pshyco/sociopath or a sane person with benefits and drawbacks to each. Maybe the crazies don’t have the getting used to it part, but they have slightly faster food consumption? And the sane people have the effects of a murder, but maybe their character is super jumpy and frail after combat. Just ideas and I’m not really into them.

The problem with that is you're assuming the impact killing someone would have while you sit in a comfort of your room, with food in a fridge, all the utilities to make your life easy, access to healthcare and in relative safety provided by the state. Whereas in a situation of a complete collapse of a society which none of us here have experienced when you're in a situation of me or him/her you're going to choose you every single time and get over killing them.

The only thing that would make people talk first and shoot later is the lack of respawn button in real life, which means any failed attempt to KoS would be your last one. 

Additionally in real life apocalypse scenario I'd be able to see that you're armed, I would see the handgun in your pocket and not trust you at all and if you started to rummage through your backpack I'd probably start to get suspicious. In DayZ I can't see the guns you may or may not have unless you have them on your shoulder, and since you can take an SMG out of your backpack without taking said backpack off or you can keep a glock in your pocket without it showing I cannot trust that you won't take the first chance to shot me in the back of the head when let my guard down. 

I recently was on the coast to meet my fresh spawn friend to be his armed escort while he gears back up, we were meeting in cherno and I decided to loot balota base, on a way through I noticed a guy with barely any gear punching zeds. I tried to be a good guy and shot the zeds with my ak, the second I did that the pulled a gun out his pocket and started shooting at me. And while attacking someone who has an assault rifle and is clad in Kevlar was a poor choice, it didn't stop him from trying to kill me and take all my loot. I shot him and decided to retreat to bandage myself, as soon as he regained consciousness he came after me, I killed him. Then once I made it to cherno I got on top of the gire fighter tower to have a look around, spotted a guy running around, he saw me too and ran away, 2 minutes later I got shot in the face by that very guy. Fortunately Kevlar saves lives and I woke up promptly not even bleeding only to hear him on the lower roof making his way to collect his reward off of my corpse. One frag granade later I took his food and ammo. 

KoS will always be around. Poorly geared players will try to kill better geared players to take their stuff and well geared players will kill anyone who gets close to keep their gear. If I see a fully geared player and can kill him and save myself from holding W for an hour and sneaking past zombies why wouldn't I if the only downside of me failing is being slightly worse off than I was when I tried ? 

The other thing is the survival aspect of the game. The only time survival in this game is hard in the first hour of your new character when you're at a risk of dying of thirst / hunger or diseases. Once you survived long enough to fill in your energy and water bars and have a gun to hunt and supplies to start a fire your struggle to survive ends. From here you have two choices, either get involved in PvP and kill one another or start doing things like base building or fishing and growing crops. The problem with number two is that it's massively time consuming and is not required to survive at all. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by General Zod

[Tonyeh 454]

On 12/1/2021 at 7:34 PM, lakevu said:

very interesting! I have been thinking the same thing myself. However, I have been persuaded that KOS is indeed a big part of the game and should be left alone. Simply for the fact would do that in real life and punishing a player for KOS with a humanity system and such doesn't really make a lot of sense. especially since in real life I'm sure there are people who don't care about killing people and it wouldn't really affect them in the ways you suggested. However, I do believe we can incentivize people to "interreact" more instead of just killing each other without talking. My suggestions to make this happen are these.

1.) Make capture and torture more fun. Having the ability to permanently scar a person's character as long as they live would be really appealing to some people. Cutting off fingers, toes and leaving cut scars on the body.

2.) Make it so a person's loot gets more easily damaged and destroyed during a gunfight. Bring back how it use to be in .62. Where mostly everything would be ruined on you if you got shot in the jacket and such. This would stop people from straight up killing without thought knowing they would get nothing out of it unless they either captured them or got a precise headshot. Which would at least add more time before you got KOS'd. 

3.) Chang the damage so more people go unconscious during a fight instead of straight up dying. Within reason. Then atleast the person who is doing the KOSing has a choice at the end to kill them or capture them. 

4.) Give more options on how to make people go unconscious and capture them. Tasers. Beanbags, Dart guns, make legs easier to break and broken arms. I dont know. But there aren't a whole lot of choices when it comes to tools on how to capture people so you can talk.

5.) Make certain actions 2 person only or at least derive a bigger benefit from the help of another person than doing it yourself. Such as Saline and blood bags can only be done by a partner or you get a lot less than if you had somebody else do it for you and such. Or bring back the defibs so your partner or one person has a tool to pick someone up form unconscious better than the EpiPen can. Or make it so actions like stitching yourself up can only be done by another person if you are low enough health so you would take too much damage if you did it just yourself. Just stuff like these so solo people see other people as some sort of benefit than just purely a threat with no upsides to talking and partnering up.

P.S: I feel the only way you are going to make it more intriguing for people to do more banditing type stuff instead of just shooting on sight is if you make the person they are targeting more valuable alive to them than if they were dead.

Unfortunately none of that will change the nature of the game for KOS'ers. They do it because that's all they know.

1.) If you mutilate a toon, the player will probably just suicide and start again.

2.) Having a toon's loot destroyed when they were killed never stopped KOS before. I remember years ago wondering why players just killed other players when they could farm nothing from them. The thing is, it didn't matter. They were going to kill them anyway. The same thing will happen if that's brought back, even though I would have no objection to bringing it back.

3.) This going unconscious thing that was brought in a few patches ago has ended up being completely useless. All it means in reality is that the shooter just either shoots you again or runs over to double tap you. You usually end up dead either way. If the player ends up captured, then all that happens there usually is that they will want to get revenge and they'll do that on the next person they see. Hence perpetuating the KOS cycle.

4.) Few players will risk trying to render another player unconscious as opposed to dead, even if there were the tools available to do so. Most people who shoot on sight don't even care about the gear the other players are carrying. There are players that spend hours camping on hills shooting other players running around town and never once moving from their spot

5.) I think that this will end up just annoying people TBH.

 

 

At the end of the day, it really depends on the person in the game and what kind of a person they are. If all they care about is killing another player, then that's exactly what they'll do. If they want to try and talk to other people, they they might do that as well. It may even come down to how that player is simply feeling at the time. I've shot players on sight. But I have also talked to other players too. I've just finished running around Iztek with someone I've never met before. But I could have easily just shot him the second he ran into the building I was in.

There are a couple of things that I'd like to see that might make more players talk to each other.

A.) Get rid of VOIP outside of the game. If you want to talk to someone, you have to talk IN GAME or not at all. (how that's done, I have no idea)

B.) Make the infected more numerous and more threatening with a chance of infecting you with their disease. If you fire your gun, then they should race to the spot where you fired from within normal hearing ranges. Imagine taking a shot on some toon and then having a swarm of 20 zombies come racing toward you. Plus, smarten them up a wee bit. No more jumping on a hessian bag or a wall and taking pot shots at them until you kill them all. That would soon cut down the amount of KOS that goes on.

 

Really though, if every encounter ended with people being friendly, DayZ would be kinda boring.

[General Zod 1118]

There is no way to get rid of voip outside of the game. You can't just have battle eye see every software with voip as cheating because steam itself can do that, there are also online chat rooms and so you'd have to filter browsers out too. You can't enforce always on mic either, some people share the room where the pc is. 

If people don't want to talk in game they won't and they will find a way to talk outside of the game.

Rare ammo would be start, if I can find 100 rounds on a single visit to military base there is no reason not be trigger happy. But at the end of the day people who want a less murderous experience will probably have to band together on a move pve focused servers.   

[DefectiveWater 539]

22 minutes ago, General Zod said:

if I can find 100 rounds on a single visit to military base there is no reason not be trigger happy

^ this

Gun rarity is fine, ammo rarity isn't.

[Parazight 1599]

I'd like to give praise to the OP for starting a discussion with the community in order to find a solution to an observed problem.  However, it isn't a problem for the vanilla product.  As others have implied, please don't impose morality into the game.  It's unfair to all of the hard working sociopaths that play.

Gamers like to shoot other gamers in video games because no one gets hurt in real life when they do it.  Let's not ruin that please.  But by all means,  feel free to make a morality mod and then try to sell the idea.

[Tristan Cooper 12]

12 hours ago, General Zod said:

The problem with that is you're assuming the impact killing someone would have while you sit in a comfort of your room, with food in a fridge, all the utilities to make your life easy, access to healthcare and in relative safety provided by the state. Whereas in a situation of a complete collapse of a society which none of us here have experienced when you're in a situation of me or him/her you're going to choose you every single time and get over killing them.

The only thing that would make people talk first and shoot later is the lack of respawn button in real life, which means any failed attempt to KoS would be your last one. 

Additionally in real life apocalypse scenario I'd be able to see that you're armed, I would see the handgun in your pocket and not trust you at all and if you started to rummage through your backpack I'd probably start to get suspicious. In DayZ I can't see the guns you may or may not have unless you have them on your shoulder, and since you can take an SMG out of your backpack without taking said backpack off or you can keep a glock in your pocket without it showing I cannot trust that you won't take the first chance to shot me in the back of the head when let my guard down. 

I recently was on the coast to meet my fresh spawn friend to be his armed escort while he gears back up, we were meeting in cherno and I decided to loot balota base, on a way through I noticed a guy with barely any gear punching zeds. I tried to be a good guy and shot the zeds with my ak, the second I did that the pulled a gun out his pocket and started shooting at me. And while attacking someone who has an assault rifle and is clad in Kevlar was a poor choice, it didn't stop him from trying to kill me and take all my loot. I shot him and decided to retreat to bandage myself, as soon as he regained consciousness he came after me, I killed him. Then once I made it to cherno I got on top of the gire fighter tower to have a look around, spotted a guy running around, he saw me too and ran away, 2 minutes later I got shot in the face by that very guy. Fortunately Kevlar saves lives and I woke up promptly not even bleeding only to hear him on the lower roof making his way to collect his reward off of my corpse. One frag granade later I took his food and ammo. 

KoS will always be around. Poorly geared players will try to kill better geared players to take their stuff and well geared players will kill anyone who gets close to keep their gear. If I see a fully geared player and can kill him and save myself from holding W for an hour and sneaking past zombies why wouldn't I if the only downside of me failing is being slightly worse off than I was when I tried ? 

The other thing is the survival aspect of the game. The only time survival in this game is hard in the first hour of your new character when you're at a risk of dying of thirst / hunger or diseases. Once you survived long enough to fill in your energy and water bars and have a gun to hunt and supplies to start a fire your struggle to survive ends. From here you have two choices, either get involved in PvP and kill one another or start doing things like base building or fishing and growing crops. The problem with number two is that it's massively time consuming and is not required to survive at all. 

Good point. Freshies really have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And I guess it’s intended for the stakes to get higher the longer you play. 
while I don’t feel nice after killing freshspawns, I do it often. I thought one was holding a handgun once, but after killing them I figured out that it was an uncracked glow stick. I’m almost immediately more trustworthy of someone if they talk in the game, but literally no one does. Building a base is something I only do with friends, so I agree on that point. I’m not really against killing, but dying differently for once would be nice. 
another idea I have is maybe the game tracks how many people your character kills in one life, and then the more kills they have the further inland they spawn in the next life. To make time less of a problem. This serves as both an incentive for trigger happy players to get straight into the action, and a concern for passive players that want an easier start.

perhaps a kill to life length ratio could be set up so players that die in gunfights are able to return quicker. Maybe instead of kills they track conflicts started because first shot usually hits and is from the aggressor.

please give feedback because I like this more than the other ideas I had. And I forgot to address apocalypse mentality sooo 

edit: I agree on that point, but almost everyone has a mental limit no matter the situation. Killing would still take its toll on the mind. Maybe it could give a status effect. Something that was not debilitating, but inconvenient to the player. Perhaps your character could have similar symptoms to colds, but builds resistance over time. Maybe the character winces at the sound of gunfire. I like that one. Maybe for a little while after any gunfight where you take shots your character has temporary ptsd. Nothing physical, but maybe the screen brightens slightly at random intervals. Character shakes when idle. Or even things like sniffling. I like the idea of a sanity meter that changes according to overall health. It would be a large bar that isn’t easy to change. And only has minor effects once emptied. Like the ones I’ve suggested or others ideas.

again, I would enjoy feedback because that’s how ideas get fleshed out. Maybe instead of just shutting an idea down you could add on to it and revise when necessary.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Tristan Cooper
Just adding on

[General Zod 1118]

I don't agree with implementing any form of debilitating symptoms from killing, we shouldn't try to discourage people from killing by making their screen flash. We should give them something else to do with their time in game, and currently there isn't much. Partially because because even if you build a base or repair a car there's a limited amount of entertainment you'll get out of that. Map isn't huge either, you can effortlessly cross it couple hours and towns don't differ so much that's it's worth sight seeing. In real life that fight for survival would be your every day life, you wouldn't log in for few hours to entertain yourself and log off and go raid your fridge and watch tv. Most people will need more interesting things to do than fishing and growing crops. And since once you gear up the survival is so easy that the most exciting thing is facing another player. Here's couple ideas of the top of my head. 

• Make ammo more scarce, a lot more scarce 
• A lot more infected the further in land you go 
• More aggressive infected, as in they keep their aggro longer, so that even if I hide in a building they don't give up 30 seconds after loosing track of me
• Make hunting harder, you can walk up to the game way too close before it reacts to you. 
• And this one won't happen but a bigger map with more interesting places to visit. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by General Zod