Dayz's Flawed Foundations: Movement and Gunplay

[Presence- 47]

On 6/8/2024 at 4:59 AM, Girth Brooks said:

Never was. Cool, lets bury this post now. 

No.

[DackJanielz 0]

i completely agree with this thread, respect to the people who made it.

Personally - i wish for them to bring 0.62 legacy build back to the public, they could do something similar to minecraft perhaps where the old version of the game could be a F2P variant available to everyone on steam.

That would be awesome, especially if we could mod it ourselves.

 

Edited October 8, 2024 by DackJanielz

[Likvid-cb38db5edb1efdb0 35]

It's sad to see that this idea, which touches on such important issues, does not attract the attention of developers. Moreover, it does not find support from some players, which is even sadder. The player base has changed, has become more arcade. Only we are left, dreaming of those changes that were promised and lost long ago.

[lakevu 108]

11 hours ago, Likvid-cb38db5edb1efdb0 said:

It's sad to see that this idea, which touches on such important issues, does not attract the attention of developers. Moreover, it does not find support from some players, which is even sadder. The player base has changed, has become more arcade. Only we are left, dreaming of those changes that were promised and lost long ago.

these people know whats going on. i find it impossible that some one like sumrak doesnt see whats going on with the game. especially anyone else there that actually played the previous versions of the game. its a volitional choice to do this to the game. to dumb it down to get the "easy" players into the game. you know the ones. the ones who dont like to think too hard and just want to run around and kill people with little effort quickscoping people with mosins Q. E spamming. jumping around everywhere when shot at.

honestly. at this point. i dont care. i hope they run the game into the ground from catering to the kiddies so another company creates a game that is actually authentic apocalypse like arma 2 was and .62 attempted to be and puts them out of business for shilling out the game for children

who is john galt?

Edited February 13 by lakevu

[DefectiveWater 546]

Quote

we aim to explore through our upcoming updates:

Gunplay refinements – featuring improvements to scopes, new firearms, and weapon handling

Congrats @lakevu and everyone else involved in this thread.

I might actually start playing again if the changes are good.

Edited February 27 by DefectiveWater

[lakevu 108]

On 2/27/2025 at 9:56 AM, DefectiveWater said:

Congrats @lakevu and everyone else involved in this thread.

I might actually start playing again if the changes are good.

kind of an early celebration dont you think? you havent even seen what their going to do or whether its even good or not. for all we know they just bump up the recoil values by 5% and call it a day. which is no way even CLOSE to the real issues causing this experience.

and seeing as the game has to be in symbiosis or symmetry with the console version of the game i cant see how anything of great substance will change or what needs to be done because it is inherently unfeasible with the metaphysical fact of using a controller.

on top of that i made this post 3-4 years ago. so to think i had anything to do with this and they actually read this forum. which they've said they dont. is highly unlikely. otherwise they would have done it YEARS AGO. what is more likely is they've run out of ideas over there and are scrambling to justify still working on the game while "tweaking" by basically changing nothing.

long live the idea and experience that was dayz!

who is john galt? 

[DefectiveWater 546]

On 3/4/2025 at 7:11 PM, lakevu said:

kind of an early celebration dont you think? you havent even seen what their going to do or whether its even good or not. for all we know they just bump up the recoil values by 5% and call it a day. which is no way even CLOSE to the real issues causing this experience.

Seems like you were right, they apparently changed up some recoil values but I haven't noticed any significant difference.

Disappointing.

[lakevu 108]

4 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Seems like you were right, they apparently changed up some recoil values but I haven't noticed any significant difference.

Disappointing.

of coarse i am right. cause they dont want it to be "dayz" anymore they want it to be a dumbed down cod shooter to attract the low hanging fruit of children.

[Judley 26]

Im only a console player but ive watched people play servers with the gunplay mod and the movement and such looks like a vast improvement and would give combat more impact. I think vanilla could do with it. 

[lakevu 108]

On 5/4/2025 at 3:14 PM, Judley said:

Im only a console player but ive watched people play servers with the gunplay mod and the movement and such looks like a vast improvement and would give combat more impact. I think vanilla could do with it. 

the problem is, is that playing on console would be IMPOSSIBLE with those changes. simply because the gun movements would be completely uncontrolable with a thumbstick. i know because this same thing happened when valve tried to put csgo on console. it was completely unplayable.

and yes it is fun. i played it for a short period of time when dayone had the legacygunplay mod on the chernarus server and it was some of the most fun ive had in the game in ever. simply because i wasnt being quickscoped with mosins and people were shooting at me and actually missing. 

dayz isnt dayz anymore its shilled to the console audience instead of doing the RIGHT THING and having two different versions of the game of console and pc. where console would just be the "lite" version of the game and pc would be the real deal. but i guess we dont care about doing the right thing anymore and doing a game its justice.

[dannyboyle 15]

On 3/4/2025 at 7:11 PM, lakevu said:

kind of an early celebration dont you think? you havent even seen what their going to do or whether its even good or not. for all we know they just bump up the recoil values by 5% and call it a day. which is no way even CLOSE to the real issues causing this experience.

and seeing as the game has to be in symbiosis or symmetry with the console version of the game i cant see how anything of great substance will change or what needs to be done because it is inherently unfeasible with the metaphysical fact of using a controller.

on top of that i made this post 3-4 years ago. so to think i had anything to do with this and they actually read this forum. which they've said they dont. is highly unlikely. otherwise they would have done it YEARS AGO. what is more likely is they've run out of ideas over there and are scrambling to justify still working on the game while "tweaking" by basically changing nothing.

long live the idea and experience that was dayz!

who is john galt? 

I think they're not really supporting the old DayZ because they're just focusing a lot of their work on DayZ 2, on bringing everything over to the new engine, while also working on ARMA 4, they have a team making new maps for the old DayZ, some systems will be used in DayZ 2 for sure, but you know making maps for the old DayZ isn't that complicated, is a way to appease people until DayZ 2 arrives.

You have many mods and you can perfectly improve the game experience without Bohemia, but Bohemia now knowing that should be focused on offering a future ecosystem for the new engine and the game, in fact it is curious that they keep adding maps and implementing modules from the new engine to the hybrid, In fact, these implementations are nothing more than a teaser for DayZ 2, the vehicles, the skybox, etc... ¿What would be the point of giving you all the DayZ 2 improvements before DayZ 2 comes out? It would be commercial madness, the normal thing is that when the game is released it will feel completely revamped, a breath of completely fresh air, feeling a great evolution all at once.

¿Do you think they're not working on DayZ 2? Is that what devs have been told? No developer is going to tell you what they are doing unless there are leaks, In fact there have been leaks of the game, you know perfectly well that the videogame industry is very secretive with these things because then the magic of the games is broken, all the workers sign NDA so all the devs are going to sell you that DayZ 2 is not planned to exist, even when they may have been working on the game for years.

The grace of a game is even as it happened with Oblivion Remastered, that without anyone expecting it a game comes out suddenly without warning, that's the real magic of videogame industry, It's like receiving unexpected Christmas presents. They're not going to improve the old DayZ, at most they'll give us small tweaks until the complete engine change, that could be when they decide, It's their decision to show engine improvements on the old DayZ, and if I were to move the company I wouldn't show much to maintain a good impression on the day the new product is introduced.

 

Consoles are like computers, they share the same architecture. The PC also has controller support. In fact, I prefer the controller a thousand times over to the keyboard, since the controller allows you to, for example, adjust the speed at which the character moves, this is good, for example, for stamina, stealth, and other elements such as platforming. The DayZ experience can be perfectly ported to consoles, the fact that the game doesn't have big improvements isn't because it's on consoles, it's because of what I said before, believe me, most of the time when a developer is making a statement to you, they are confirming the opposite.

"We cannot port the old DayZ completely to the new engine, it is too difficult, it would break everything." = "We really can, we're just working on a new product to launch."

Believe me, when you've seen games like Zelda BOTW emulated on PC and with co-op multiplayer and developers from major companies saying that it's not possible, that people don't know how games are made. you think anything is possible. 😄

 

My message is that you just tell them what they should improve for DayZ, feedback is always good and welcome by companies, it helps to improve their products, they will then make the decisions they consider, but don't expect that to happen now on the old game, because if they are creating an improved DayZ they have to sell it as if it was something completely renewed, a brand new product, and if they give you all those improvements now they won't have anything new to sell you.

 

Edited May 9 by dannyboyle

[Girth Brooks 574]

The second this game went to consoles it went downhill. I doubt they will release a Dayz2, most likely just keep dropping maps at $20 a pop in perpetuity.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Girth Brooks said:

The second this game went to consoles it went downhill. I doubt they will release a Dayz2, most likely just keep dropping maps at $20 a pop in perpetuity.

Why wouldn't they? They have no competition to this day, stats are rising - its a money making machine. Unless they hate money a second part will happen. Ported maps are only a means to buy more time.

[lakevu 108]

16 hours ago, dannyboyle said:

I think they're not really supporting the old DayZ because they're just focusing a lot of their work on DayZ 2, on bringing everything over to the new engine, while also working on ARMA 4, they have a team making new maps for the old DayZ, some systems will be used in DayZ 2 for sure, but you know making maps for the old DayZ isn't that complicated, is a way to appease people until DayZ 2 arrives.

You have many mods and you can perfectly improve the game experience without Bohemia, but Bohemia now knowing that should be focused on offering a future ecosystem for the new engine and the game, in fact it is curious that they keep adding maps and implementing modules from the new engine to the hybrid, In fact, these implementations are nothing more than a teaser for DayZ 2, the vehicles, the skybox, etc... ¿What would be the point of giving you all the DayZ 2 improvements before DayZ 2 comes out? It would be commercial madness, the normal thing is that when the game is released it will feel completely revamped, a breath of completely fresh air, feeling a great evolution all at once.

¿Do you think they're not working on DayZ 2? Is that what devs have been told? No developer is going to tell you what they are doing unless there are leaks, In fact there have been leaks of the game, you know perfectly well that the videogame industry is very secretive with these things because then the magic of the games is broken, all the workers sign NDA so all the devs are going to sell you that DayZ 2 is not planned to exist, even when they may have been working on the game for years.

The grace of a game is even as it happened with Oblivion Remastered, that without anyone expecting it a game comes out suddenly without warning, that's the real magic of videogame industry, It's like receiving unexpected Christmas presents. They're not going to improve the old DayZ, at most they'll give us small tweaks until the complete engine change, that could be when they decide, It's their decision to show engine improvements on the old DayZ, and if I were to move the company I wouldn't show much to maintain a good impression on the day the new product is introduced.

 

Consoles are like computers, they share the same architecture. The PC also has controller support. In fact, I prefer the controller a thousand times over to the keyboard, since the controller allows you to, for example, adjust the speed at which the character moves, this is good, for example, for stamina, stealth, and other elements such as platforming. The DayZ experience can be perfectly ported to consoles, the fact that the game doesn't have big improvements isn't because it's on consoles, it's because of what I said before, believe me, most of the time when a developer is making a statement to you, they are confirming the opposite.

"We cannot port the old DayZ completely to the new engine, it is too difficult, it would break everything." = "We really can, we're just working on a new product to launch."

Believe me, when you've seen games like Zelda BOTW emulated on PC and with co-op multiplayer and developers from major companies saying that it's not possible, that people don't know how games are made. you think anything is possible. 😄

 

My message is that you just tell them what they should improve for DayZ, feedback is always good and welcome by companies, it helps to improve their products, they will then make the decisions they consider, but don't expect that to happen now on the old game, because if they are creating an improved DayZ they have to sell it as if it was something completely renewed, a brand new product, and if they give you all those improvements now they won't have anything new to sell you.

 

i absolutely agree with you and it definitely makes sense.

however with reforger we can already see the direction these future games are going to be. arma 4 aswell as dayz 2. gunplay casual. movement casual. basically just a baby shooter. boring. baby. and braindead.

[lakevu 108]

9 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

The second this game went to consoles it went downhill. I doubt they will release a Dayz2, most likely just keep dropping maps at $20 a pop in perpetuity.

its not even that console HAS to be an issue. the issue is that the game is being made for BOTH and not their respective inputs. keyboard is just fundamentally different than a controller. and to make them both the same means computer has to fundamentally suffer because the lower sense of control thumbsticks have.

if we were to DO THE RIGHT THING. there would be two seperate creations of the game. but we want to be cheap and do it all at once and dumb down the entire experience for the sake of console gamers

[lakevu 108]

9 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

The second this game went to consoles it went downhill. I doubt they will release a Dayz2, most likely just keep dropping maps at $20 a pop in perpetuity.

 

 

 

Edited May 9 by lakevu

[lakevu 108]

7 hours ago, nemorus said:

Why wouldn't they? They have no competition to this day, stats are rising - its a money making machine. Unless they hate money a second part will happen. Ported maps are only a means to buy more time.

this is another problem driving the game. that simply because there is no other game this is an excuse to degrade and destroy the experience. instead of having integrity and fulfilling the vision and soul of the game.

this idea that "player counts are rising! PLAYER COUNTS ARE RISING!" is the most braindead thing ive ever heard. completely evading the question of HOW it is happening. what did we do to get these players? did we dumb down the game? are we flooding the game with cheap kids to prop up our numbers? are we debasing the experience for the sake of boosting a number?

[Guest]

Whose vision? A guy who payed a few bucks for a copy? Let's be honest: people have different ideas about dayz, about what it should represent but its not their say. Its not their property - most of them did jack to make it better. They're hanging around because its not bad enough to discourage them. Its just enough for them to stick around and play for years, modded or not.

[lakevu 108]

2 hours ago, nemorus said:

Whose vision? A guy who payed a few bucks for a copy? Let's be honest: people have different ideas about dayz, about what it should represent but its not their say. Its not their property - most of them did jack to make it better. They're hanging around because its not bad enough to discourage them. Its just enough for them to stick around and play for years, modded or not.

i think "THE" vision. is how the dayz was initially created in arma 2. everything from the difficulty to how the zombies acted. all those aspects when given a final estimation was given the title "dayz". and thats what dayz is. anything that strives from that initial standard IS NOT dayz.

and yes that seems to be the key. just keep the baseline gameplay loop JUST enough to keep people coming back but basically do nothing to improve it. and most importantly above all else. KEEP IT EASY. gotta keep the braindead playing the game and people who dont like to "try" too hard

[Guest]

Just because others have different taste from yours doesn't make them "braindead". DayZ have modded scene to cater to every whim - from ultra authentic rp to karaoke filled with dinosaurs that one can beat down with dildos. All that BI has to do is add more functions - vanilla isn't that important.

[Girth Brooks 574]

OG Dayz mod was jank-city, just like most mods are. They decided to bake the code in, take away our view distance slider for consoles, changed the player controller to fit console limits, then give us BACK our view distance slider for PC. All the while taking 10 fucking years to get the car code to work. There was a 6 month period where DAYZ had NO infected in it, because jank code. A game about surviving infected and none to be seen. Just players on a 40 man server. 

And people still played.

Also vanilla players are the vast minority.

[lakevu 108]

8 hours ago, nemorus said:

Just because others have different taste from yours doesn't make them "braindead". DayZ have modded scene to cater to every whim - from ultra authentic rp to karaoke filled with dinosaurs that one can beat down with dildos. All that BI has to do is add more functions - vanilla isn't that important.

if that "taste" includes a difficultless game with point and click gunplay with one tap weapons with zero recoil. yes. that is objectively braindead.

what bohemia needs to do is fix the fundamental systems of the game that effect exactly HOW the game is experienced and perceived. movement, gunplay and aesthetics.

vanilla IS important. because that is effectively the "standard" of the game. it is the poster. it is the image that shapes the expectations and embodies whatever "identity" the game is trying to be.

i WOULD NOT have a problem with this if it was the other way around. where the systems were harder and then people made custom servers that stripped those systems to the game we have today. not make it easy and have to make people actually have to make dayz what it actually is.

[lakevu 108]

1 minute ago, Girth Brooks said:

OG Dayz mod was jank-city, just like most mods are. They decided to bake the code in, take away our view distance slider for consoles, changed the player controller to fit console limits, then give us BACK our view distance slider for PC. All the while taking 10 fucking years to get the car code to work. There was a 6 month period where DAYZ had NO infected in it, because jank code. A game about surviving infected and none to be seen. Just players on a 40 man server. 

And people still played.

Also vanilla players are the vast minority.

but console players. im sure at this point. are the majority.

[dannyboyle 15]

On 5/10/2025 at 1:15 AM, lakevu said:

i absolutely agree with you and it definitely makes sense.

however with reforger we can already see the direction these future games are going to be. arma 4 aswell as dayz 2. gunplay casual. movement casual. basically just a baby shooter. boring. baby. and braindead.

I think the biggest problem is that the game controls two points of view, first and third person, and it is difficult to program and balance for both. I think that's a much bigger problem than having the game on consoles, since the PC version also has controller compatibility, so there's no point in using that argument,  On the other hand, a controller is the same as a mouse and keyboard, even better in some ways, except for aiming, which is more clumsy, but I like it better this way, it's like you have to be more experienced.

I suppose what you're asking for is for the character to move like in The Last of Us 2 or RDR2. I wouldn't mind that, to be honest, but to achieve that, the entire animation system would have to be changed, and I doubt they'll do that in this version of the engine, but who knows. I also prefer more human-like and heavy-duty movements.

 

But without a doubt, if I were to design the game I would definitely prefer it to be more realistic, more organic. Anyway, I think the animation design is because it's old and was done as best as it could be at the time, and Bohemia still has a lot to improve, you just have to see how weird it looks to jump fences or jump for that matter, if I want to jump from one ice platform to another it feels very fake and is almost impossible, there is no leg cushioning, it's obvious that DayZ is not like that from what you say, it's like that because it's a half-abandoned game and Bohemia is not Rockstar or Naughty Dog at the moment, they don't have the best animators or the best programmers.

 

 

[lakevu 108]

On 5/15/2025 at 7:48 AM, dannyboyle said:

I think the biggest problem is that the game controls two points of view, first and third person, and it is difficult to program and balance for both. I think that's a much bigger problem than having the game on consoles, since the PC version also has controller compatibility, so there's no point in using that argument,  On the other hand, a controller is the same as a mouse and keyboard, even better in some ways, except for aiming, which is more clumsy, but I like it better this way, it's like you have to be more experienced.

I suppose what you're asking for is for the character to move like in The Last of Us 2 or RDR2. I wouldn't mind that, to be honest, but to achieve that, the entire animation system would have to be changed, and I doubt they'll do that in this version of the engine, but who knows. I also prefer more human-like and heavy-duty movements.

 

But without a doubt, if I were to design the game I would definitely prefer it to be more realistic, more organic. Anyway, I think the animation design is because it's old and was done as best as it could be at the time, and Bohemia still has a lot to improve, you just have to see how weird it looks to jump fences or jump for that matter, if I want to jump from one ice platform to another it feels very fake and is almost impossible, there is no leg cushioning, it's obvious that DayZ is not like that from what you say, it's like that because it's a half-abandoned game and Bohemia is not Rockstar or Naughty Dog at the moment, they don't have the best animators or the best programmers.

 

 

that is an interesting point. i have not put much thought into the fact that 3rd or 1st person very much does change how the player character would move and inputs would be felt for example.

but just because a pc can use a controller does not change the fact thumbsticks are FAR more different control tha a mouse. its ASTRONOMICAL difference of control which leads to the dumb point and click gunplay the game is today because mouse is just such a lazer beam input device. 

the ONLY way i see control being better in respects is the COMFORTABILITY of the controller. its just more comfortable and less "serious" aura when using it. but i think that basically goes against the CORE energy and entity that is dayz. dayz is NOT supposed to be felt that way. it is MEANT to be serious. which is why it was born from arma 2. a SERIOUS game. which solidified its original creation and identity.

ii think its a bit of a tall order for me to say exactly what i want the system to look like without actually being able to try anything and TEST. that would me fully abstracting out some system in my head. but for reference i liked the "clunkiness" of the old games in its movement. specifically the delay in moving left to right. which is how reality is. you have to PIVOT from left foot to move right. in reality that movement IS "clunky" by game expectations. but that CLUNK is important because it GROUNDS you to the world and makes you FEEL every foot step. every boot press into the ground.