Traders in DayZ? (Split from 1.07 topic)

[Derleth 1352]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:53 PM, KajMak64Bit2 said:

... and what's wrong with Traders? i think cars bought from Traders are more stable then naturally spawned ones... 

Traders remove that basic premise that DayZ is built upon - to search for stuff that you need until you find it, either by scavenging the ruins or by looting or trading with other players that you meet. With AI traders you can basically just run a loop around whatever town you spawn nearest, sell all the crap you pick up and then be geared. I hate that stuff, it automatically breaks the economy on a server and ruins any semblance of balance the game might have. The "if you don't like them don't use them" mantra is false, because if there are traders you'll be at an enormous disadvantage if you don't use them.

But to each their own, lots of players like that stuff and the beauty of mod support and public server files is they can have traders on their servers while vanilla and hardcore modded servers don't. Win win.

The difference between spawned and bought vehicles you talk about is down to server configuration, if the server owner doesn't configure the files properly spawned (or bought for that matter) vehicles will despawn or spawn where they aren't stable etc.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Derleth

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

5 minutes ago, Derleth said:

Traders remove that basic premise that DayZ is built upon - to search for stuff that you need until you find it, either by scavenging the ruins or by looting or trading with other players that you meet. With AI traders you can basically just run a loop around whatever town you spawn nearest, sell all the crap you pick up and then be geared. I hate that stuff, it automatically breaks the economy on a server and ruins any semblance of balance the game might have. The "if you don't like them don't use them" mantra is false, because if there are traders you'll be at an enormous disadvantage if you don't use them.

But to each their own, lots of players like that stuff and the beauty of mod support and public server files is they can have traders on their servers while vanilla and hardcore modded servers don't. Win win.

The difference between spawned and bought vehicles you talk about is down to server configuration, if the server owner doesn't configure the files properly spawned (or bought for that matter) vehicles will despawn or spawn where they aren't stable etc.

every DayZ server that has ever existed from 2012 to 2020 had traders... so how do you explain this? Why does everyone use a trader? Trading with Real Players? oh you mean give free stuff to a random bandit when he brutally kills you and eat you? Oh yea that works really well that everyone is trading and completely removes the need for Trader NPC Yes that makes a lot of sense 😄 

[William Sternritter 441]

1 hour ago, KajMak64Bit2 said:

every DayZ server that has ever existed from 2012 to 2020 had traders... 

I have never seen a trader. 

[Derleth 1352]

13 hours ago, KajMak64Bit2 said:

every DayZ server that has ever existed from 2012 to 2020 had traders... so how do you explain this? Why does everyone use a trader? Trading with Real Players? oh you mean give free stuff to a random bandit when he brutally kills you and eat you? Oh yea that works really well that everyone is trading and completely removes the need for Trader NPC Yes that makes a lot of sense 😄 

That is just pure and utter bollocks and you know it. There is absolutely no need for NPC traders. There are no traders in the vanilla game, there were never any traders in legacy standalone, there were no traders in the vanilla DayZ mod and there are lots of modded servers without traders. I have around 3,000 hours in the game yet I don't even have the trader mod subscribed. Traders were ported over from mods of the mod to facilitate the epoch/exile type of gameplay, which is thankfully not part of the devs' vision for DayZ standalone. Some people like it, but far from everyone. 

As for player trading, if you try something different from modded-to-kingdom-come pvp servers with traders and whatnot you might find out there are occasional interactions in the game that aren't violent. On some hardcore servers there are trader factions, hell there's even a player-to-player trader mod that automates the process. Players list what they want in exchange for something they turn in at the trader, if another player visiting the trader accepts the deal he gets the item and the one who listed it can pick up the exchanged item(s) later. This kind of trader won't corrupt the server's economy, but it is still too much AI as far as I'm concerned, trades should be made in person with all the risk and potential madness that comes with it.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Derleth

[Uncle Zed 272]

On 5/12/2020 at 2:49 PM, KajMak64Bit2 said:

every DayZ server that has ever existed from 2012 to 2020 had traders... so how do you explain this? Why does everyone use a trader? Trading with Real Players? oh you mean give free stuff to a random bandit when he brutally kills you and eat you? Oh yea that works really well that everyone is trading and completely removes the need for Trader NPC Yes that makes a lot of sense 😄 

Not true at all. None of my DayZ SA servers have ever had traders. Right now I have a Deer Isle server with player 2 player trader, but not the conventional traders. I hate traders. If you choose to play servers where people are going to kill and eat you, that's your choice.

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:45 AM, Derleth said:

That is just pure and utter bollocks and you know it. There is absolutely no need for NPC traders. There are no traders in the vanilla game, there were never any traders in legacy standalone, there were no traders in the vanilla DayZ mod and there are lots of modded servers without traders. I have around 3,000 hours in the game yet I don't even have the trader mod subscribed. Traders were ported over from mods of the mod to facilitate the epoch/exile type of gameplay, which is thankfully not part of the devs' vision for DayZ standalone. Some people like it, but far from everyone. 

As for player trading, if you try something different from modded-to-kingdom-come pvp servers with traders and whatnot you might find out there are occasional interactions in the game that aren't violent. On some hardcore servers there are trader factions, hell there's even a player-to-player trader mod that automates the process. Players list what they want in exchange for something they turn in at the trader, if another player visiting the trader accepts the deal he gets the item and the one who listed it can pick up the exchanged item(s) later. This kind of trader won't corrupt the server's economy, but it is still too much AI as far as I'm concerned, trades should be made in person with all the risk and potential madness that comes with it.

How come every youtube video i watched had traders in them? like FrankieOnPC and SADA and others... every video i watch on DayZ ever had traders... in my eyes DayZ should have traders DayZ is an RPG survival game... i can see it work with NPCs and Quests and shit and idk how y'all see what traders do wrong but i see no effect by them just existing... never felt wrong about them idk about y'all

[Max Planck 7174]

20 hours ago, KajMak64Bit2 said:

How come every youtube video i watched had traders in them? like FrankieOnPC and SADA and others... every video i watch on DayZ ever had traders... in my eyes DayZ should have traders DayZ is an RPG survival game... i can see it work with NPCs and Quests and shit and idk how y'all see what traders do wrong but i see no effect by them just existing... never felt wrong about them idk about y'all

 

Traders, and all the other things added by mods like 'highloot++', 'safezones' and such, are contrary to what Dayz was originally about. It turns the whole idea of the game on its head.

Just like Counter-Strike was a mod of half-Life that changed the game into something completely different, so are the these mods something that changes the game away from the original vision. Nothing wrong with that, there's a place in the world, and an audience, for both Counter Strike and Half-Life, DayZ and DayZ-mods.

When the ArmA-mod 'DayZ' was first released, it was fairly unique in many ways, ways that had a large influence on game development in general. A lot of us who were around back then really liked it that way, and still do.
So please, let us keep it. Then you can mod it to your heart's content.

 

EDIT

Since you brought up Youtube videos, their creators and the gameplay they represent, let me show you the videos that got me into DayZ. I think they are still well worth a watch, not just for the history lesson, but also for the "Aaaaargh, run away!!" feeling that permeates it all.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL68854CD9F0A0C4A7

Happy dayz.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Max Planck

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

8 hours ago, Max Planck said:

 

Traders, and all the other things added by mods like 'highloot++', 'safezones' and such, are contrary to what Dayz was originally about. It turns the whole idea of the game on its head.

Just like Counter-Strike was a mod of half-Life that changed the game into something completely different, so are the these mods something that changes the game away from the original vision. Nothing wrong with that, there's a place in the world, and an audience, for both Counter Strike and Half-Life, DayZ and DayZ-mods.

When the ArmA-mod 'DayZ' was first released, it was fairly unique in many ways, ways that had a large influence on game development in general. A lot of us who were around back then really liked it that way, and still do.
So please, let us keep it. Then you can mod it to your heart's content.

 

EDIT

Since you brought up Youtube videos, their creators and the gameplay they represent, let me show you the videos that got me into DayZ. I think they are still well worth a watch, not just for the history lesson, but also for the "Aaaaargh, run away!!" feeling that permeates it all.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL68854CD9F0A0C4A7

Happy dayz.

You can have traders without having HIGH LOOT++ 1000x LOOT and such... you know that right? It's all about balancing prices and shit.... and DayZ Expansion will actually feature realistic traders so they will only sell if they have that item in stock... so that means if a player sold M4 you can buy that M4 at the trader... so yes

[Max Planck 7174]

4 hours ago, KajMak64Bit2 said:

You can have traders without having HIGH LOOT++ 1000x LOOT and such... you know that right?

Of course I know that. And I think that adding a magic store is a bigger change than just messing with the drop tables.

 

4 hours ago, KajMak64Bit2 said:

It's all about balancing prices and shit.... and DayZ Expansion will actually feature realistic traders

The thing is.... DayZ was never meant to have NPC's, it was always a 'what you see/do/make is what you get'-game.
Everyone in Chernarus is a real person, with real goals and real motivations. You can communicate with them. They can scheme and lie, they can be honest and forthright, but you have to figure that out for yourself. There are no magic store-bots. No magic currency. No magic what-so-ever.
And still, people do trade. Here's 154 pages worth of proof, here's you store: https://forums.dayz.com/topic/172229-trading-post/

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Max Planck

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

9 hours ago, Max Planck said:

Of course I know that. And I think that adding a magic store is a bigger change than just messing with the drop tables.

 

The thing is.... DayZ was never meant to have NPC's, it was always a 'what you see/do/make is what you get'-game.
Everyone in Chernarus is a real person, with real goals and real motivations. You can communicate with them. They can scheme and lie, they can be honest and forthright, but you have to figure that out for yourself. There are no magic store-bots. No magic currency. No magic what-so-ever.
And still, people do trade. Here's 154 pages worth of proof, here's you store: https://forums.dayz.com/topic/172229-trading-post/

 

Except everyones motivation is to kill and get geared on 80% of Normal DayZ servers and not some Roleplay poop... bro DayZ isn't Rust... only way to trade safely in video games is safe zones either with NPC or trough the Trading Post thing that Rust ... Shopping Front thing... literally nobody trades with you unless it's bullets on most of the servers that most of the people like to play and not some specific servers where KOS is not allowed aka Roleplay servers... It's like trying to do cease fire in Call of Duty xD 
Rust altho very shitty... has got some things right and that's trading and possible people interaction... you can set up your own vending machines for example... shopping front that allows safe trade and things like that... and these things just don't exist in DayZ until Base building becomes mainstream and safe like in Rust and not mostly on Roleplay servers

[Max Planck 7174]

16 hours ago, KajMak64Bit2 said:

bro DayZ isn't Rust...

I appreciate you taking the time to explain to me what DayZ is, I've really been wondering about that these past eight years.

 

16 hours ago, KajMak64Bit2 said:

 only way to trade safely in video games is safe zones either with NPC or trough the Trading Post thing that Rust ... Shopping Front thing... literally nobody trades with you unless it's bullets on most of the servers that most of the people like to play and not some specific servers where KOS is not allowed aka Roleplay servers... It's like trying to do cease fire in Call of Duty xD

I linked you a topic with one hundred and fifty-four pages of people trading. This is on regular servers, mind. Hell, I've done it myself. No one got shot. Saying that literally nobody trades is plainly wrong.

I think the problem here is that some 'youtube personalities' misrepresent the game, which causes some people to have expectations that just won't be met. To use my previous analogy, they expect Counter-Strike, but they get Half-Life.
Luckily, Counter-Strike (or modded DayZ) still exists, there is no reason for Half-Life (or DayZ) to be changed to resemble it.
Enjoy the flavour you like! And let's keep the different flavours.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Max Planck

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

1 hour ago, Max Planck said:

I appreciate you taking the time to explain to me what DayZ is, I've really been wondering about that these past eight years.

 

I linked you a topic with one handred and fifty-four pages of people trading. This is on regular servers, mind. Hell, I've done it myself. No one got shot. Saying that literally nobody trades is plainly wrong.

I think the problem here is that some 'youtube personalities' misrepresent the game, which causes some people to have expectations that just won't be met. To use my previous analogy, they expect Counter-Strike, but they get Half-Life.
Luckily, Counter-Strike (or modded DayZ) still exists, there is no reason for Half-Life (or DayZ) to be changed to resemble it.
Enjoy the flavour you like! And let's keep the different flavours.

i played on vanilla servers... literally the same... except less gear... and no NPC traders.. seems like only thing missing from Vanilla official servers... less gear... no NPC traders... it's all just mostly KOS with interactions that result into teaming up to DO KOS and for me NPC traders don't change nothing... i don't see how it changes the game from a singleplayer story mode to a multiplayer team vs team game mode with objective of defending / attacking... Modded DayZ is like adding more content into Counter Strike... and Vanilla DayZ is Counter Strike non prime match making... like wtf 

[Derleth 1352]

On 5/16/2020 at 12:39 AM, KajMak64Bit2 said:

How come every youtube video i watched had traders in them? like FrankieOnPC and SADA and others... every video i watch on DayZ ever had traders... in my eyes DayZ should have traders DayZ is an RPG survival game... i can see it work with NPCs and Quests and shit and idk how y'all see what traders do wrong but i see no effect by them just existing... never felt wrong about them idk about y'all

Dear heavens, if it's on Youtube it must be true!

You never stopped to think that you're watching tubers of a certain category? No DayZ video I ever watched to the end had a trader in it... If you want traders, quests etc vanilla DayZ is not your game, simple as that. It is not an RPG, it's a survival sandbox with zombies. As luck would have it DayZ supports modding so there are tons of servers that turn the game into what you want. Win.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Derleth

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

16 hours ago, Derleth said:

Dear heavens, if it's on Youtube it must be true!

You never stopped to think that you're watching tubers of a certain category? No DayZ video I ever watched to the end had a trader in it... If you want traders, quests etc vanilla DayZ is not your game, simple as that. It is not an RPG, it's a survival sandbox with zombies. As luck would have it DayZ supports modding so there are tons of servers that turn the game into what you want. Win.

but the thing is NPC traders don't change the game for me.... it's all DayZ to me... i don't see differences tho unless a server adds some unrealistic military base with bunch of loot xD DayZ has pretty much always atleast from like 2015 was pretty much a Deathmatch... everybody only pvp just as it is now... nothing has changed like wtf and from what i noticed... DayZ was kinda imagined as a very different World of Warcraft... but it's limited in map size... imagine that full Chernarus that is on maps in schools in DayZ... imagine 1000-2000 player servers on a map that's like 10x larger then what currently is... with quests and such similar to World of Warcraft... only realistic... that would be so dope... even that will probably never happen it's still cool... regardless if it has NPC's... and traders and bla bla it's still DayZ it's still the same game it's nothing different... you survive... that's it... in fact having NPC traders makes the game more alive... without them it would be like Scum... as if prisoners have been dropped on the island to kill each other... it's a realistic zombie survival sandbox yes? what prevents me in real life from creating a safe zone... a settlement... nothing... without traders there is no place to chill out with the people... you only find them outside looting and probably shooting... you don't even realise how much fun you can get get at the trader just by talking to other people you don't even need to use the traders... you can have fun... and also how DayZ is NOT an RPG ? Devs want to implement soft skills which they are kinda in the game now,... they want to have skills and shit... that's a basis of an RPG game..  for me... DayZ as of right now is only 0.1% of what it really is... Idk how am i the only one who sees that DayZ is more of an RPG game... it's weird
and if the traders are so bad than how is it that everyone uses them and is one of the most popular mod out there? And most of the servers don't turn the game into anything different other then DayZ... with exceptions of Battle Royale mode... and DeathMatch servers... and you say that DayZ is not my kind of game... you are so wrong... because it is... i loved it back when i was 13-14 back when it released... still do... so how is it that DayZ is not my type of game? xD 

[Derleth 1352]

5 hours ago, KajMak64Bit2 said:

but the thing is NPC traders don't change the game for me.... it's all DayZ to me... i don't see differences tho unless a server adds some unrealistic military base with bunch of loot xD DayZ has pretty much always atleast from like 2015 was pretty much a Deathmatch... everybody only pvp just as it is now... nothing has changed like wtf and from what i noticed... DayZ was kinda imagined as a very different World of Warcraft... but it's limited in map size... imagine that full Chernarus that is on maps in schools in DayZ... imagine 1000-2000 player servers on a map that's like 10x larger then what currently is... with quests and such similar to World of Warcraft... only realistic... that would be so dope... even that will probably never happen it's still cool... regardless if it has NPC's... and traders and bla bla it's still DayZ it's still the same game it's nothing different... you survive... that's it... in fact having NPC traders makes the game more alive... without them it would be like Scum... as if prisoners have been dropped on the island to kill each other... it's a realistic zombie survival sandbox yes? what prevents me in real life from creating a safe zone... a settlement... nothing... without traders there is no place to chill out with the people... you only find them outside looting and probably shooting... you don't even realise how much fun you can get get at the trader just by talking to other people you don't even need to use the traders... you can have fun... and also how DayZ is NOT an RPG ? Devs want to implement soft skills which they are kinda in the game now,... they want to have skills and shit... that's a basis of an RPG game..  for me... DayZ as of right now is only 0.1% of what it really is... Idk how am i the only one who sees that DayZ is more of an RPG game... it's weird
and if the traders are so bad than how is it that everyone uses them and is one of the most popular mod out there? And most of the servers don't turn the game into anything different other then DayZ... with exceptions of Battle Royale mode... and DeathMatch servers... and you say that DayZ is not my kind of game... you are so wrong... because it is... i loved it back when i was 13-14 back when it released... still do... so how is it that DayZ is not my type of game? xD 

Look mate, key word in that entire post from you is "NPC traders don't change the game for me..." We get it, they don't change the game for you. Of course, since you don't play on servers without them - but you need to look at it from other players' perspective too or having a healthy discussion is not possible. And when discussing, please try to refrain from statements like "everybody only pvp"  or "everyone uses them". The fact barely anybody here has agreed with you about traders should give you a hint that it isn't exactly how you say. Yes, the trader mod is very popular and most or all the "hot" pewpew servers have them. Nevertheless, to players who appreciate DayZ's original vision there is absolutely no need for npc traders and any other AI beyond animals and mindless things that want to eat you.

You say "what prevents me in real life from creating a safe zone..." and I need to ask you what prevents you in DayZ? You can gang up with some other survivors, create a clan/faction, claim a town, fortify it and defend it. Trade with other survivors who want to and fight with other survivors who want to take your stuff. All without any artificial AI. To me and many other players that is what DayZ is about. The minute you plop a magic trader on a server it's all about camping the trader, and yes there is absolutely no way around the fact that economy balance is fudged if there are AI traders. Anyone can get anything he wants from the trader by gathering artificial currency. Since there is no society or government or banks, who controls the currency? Why are those rubles worth something, why would the trader want them? From where does he get his supply? Why would the trader buy useless crap from you in the first place? In servers without traders there is still trading - and the currency tends to be nails or ammo or other things people need, and the trades tend to be tense and paranoid, since you can never trust that the guy is not going to try and kill you instead. That's what makes it interesting.

And I didn't say "DayZ is not your kind of game" I said "vanilla DayZ" which seems pretty accurate, since you say yourself the game should have traders and safe zones.

[Max Planck 7174]

Right. This discussion is interesting, but let's move it out of the'Update 1.07' topic.

There's a very similar discussion going on here: https://forums.dayz.com/topic/247793-money/
Or, someone could create a new topic on the matter.

 

[Derleth 1352]

4 minutes ago, Max Planck said:

Right. This discussion is interesting, but let's move it out of the'Update 1.07' topic.

There's a very similar discussion going on here: https://forums.dayz.com/topic/247793-money/
Or, someone could create a new topic on the matter.

 

Thank you. Right now I'd rather be talking about 1.08 expy...

[Uncle Zed 272]

On 5/15/2020 at 6:39 PM, KajMak64Bit2 said:

How come every youtube video i watched had traders in them? like FrankieOnPC and SADA and others... every video i watch on DayZ ever had traders... in my eyes DayZ should have traders DayZ is an RPG survival game... i can see it work with NPCs and Quests and shit and idk how y'all see what traders do wrong but i see no effect by them just existing... never felt wrong about them idk about y'all

Frankie... he hasn't made a video in 3 years... anyway, the majority of Dayz players aren't looking for a survival game. They're looking to play COD in a sandbox, so they play on servers with traders and high loot. Traders take out the need to loot and survive.

[KajMak64Bit2 125]

On 5/19/2020 at 9:15 AM, Derleth said:

Look mate, key word in that entire post from you is "NPC traders don't change the game for me..." We get it, they don't change the game for you. Of course, since you don't play on servers without them - but you need to look at it from other players' perspective too or having a healthy discussion is not possible. And when discussing, please try to refrain from statements like "everybody only pvp"  or "everyone uses them". The fact barely anybody here has agreed with you about traders should give you a hint that it isn't exactly how you say. Yes, the trader mod is very popular and most or all the "hot" pewpew servers have them. Nevertheless, to players who appreciate DayZ's original vision there is absolutely no need for npc traders and any other AI beyond animals and mindless things that want to eat you.

You say "what prevents me in real life from creating a safe zone..." and I need to ask you what prevents you in DayZ? You can gang up with some other survivors, create a clan/faction, claim a town, fortify it and defend it. Trade with other survivors who want to and fight with other survivors who want to take your stuff. All without any artificial AI. To me and many other players that is what DayZ is about. The minute you plop a magic trader on a server it's all about camping the trader, and yes there is absolutely no way around the fact that economy balance is fudged if there are AI traders. Anyone can get anything he wants from the trader by gathering artificial currency. Since there is no society or government or banks, who controls the currency? Why are those rubles worth something, why would the trader want them? From where does he get his supply? Why would the trader buy useless crap from you in the first place? In servers without traders there is still trading - and the currency tends to be nails or ammo or other things people need, and the trades tend to be tense and paranoid, since you can never trust that the guy is not going to try and kill you instead. That's what makes it interesting.

And I didn't say "DayZ is not your kind of game" I said "vanilla DayZ" which seems pretty accurate, since you say yourself the game should have traders and safe zones.

Traders ruin economy? excuse me but it's not cool to not find an AK in a Soviet Country in all of the bases... not a single AK... just like it isn;'t cool to come to balota and loot everything in Balota and come out with i am not even kidding 4-6 MP5s... and like 8-15 FNXs ... that's my experience with Public vanilla servers,,.. economy on modded servers are realistic... you go to military base and find gun... usually a variety of guns... and not 6 MP5s and 15 FNXs all around the place like wtf is Balota? an MP5 and FNX factory? the whole economy thing that devs are trying to make just doesn't work especially with everyone gathering guns and hiding them and duping too... And your idea of making a safe zone with other players... that's just roleplay... that's not real DayZ... give me an example of somebody making an actual safe zone/ trading camp on a normal DayZ server and not RolePlay one... sure roleplaying is nice and all but still... NPC trader is more reliable and available 24/7 ... imagine when DayZ Expansion traders come... and they actually work realistically and have stock and stuff... and currency is silver nuggets from what i've seen... now that's cool... and it actually makes central economy better and realistic... only public official vanilla servers that are worth playing on are Experimental servers 🙂

[Max Planck 7174]

I've split this discussion off into its own topic, to keep the original topic on track.