Player Identification and Classification System

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Good idea, so i can name peoples in my group in a way that speaks to me the most :D

"Captain igloo"

"Dr. Parkinson"

"Loose cannon"

It's a great concept, only issue is that peoples generally hate to type in games.

[0only1 4]

I agree with the idea, I am against any kind of indicators, there are no indicators in real life one of the greatest parts of the game and it's dangers is identification/communication, tks and traps are part of the action.

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

It's seems like a very good idea but I think the way you want it to work is way to complicated and inpractical in a real ingame situation. Who's gonna sit there and take the time to look at that guy, type in a name, add him to a category and that while you're within a range of 20m(if you, like most people, don't have scope).

Also the overall survival time speaks against it being worth the effort. Most people you meet will not live long enough to see you again, so there's no point in remembering them. It might be helpful if you're with a group, to more easily identifiy your team mates but other than that, I'm not sure.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

It's seems like a very good idea but I think the way you want it to work is way to complicated and inpractical in a real ingame situation. Who's gonna sit there and take the time to look at that guy, type in a name, add him to a category and that while you're within a range of 20m(if you, like most people, don't have scope).

I agree there is an issue of timing that needs to be addressed. Nobody's going to want to be messing with UI when they're 20m from someone they don't know. Still, I think it's not insurmountable. Mousewheel to "Identity" and text input opens similar to the chat box. A quick 'nwaf bandit' which should take about 400ms to type and you're right back in the action. You could take care of moving them to a "category" later once you're safely out of the action.

I would contest that "most people don't have scope" - binoculars are one of the most common pieces of equipment next to watches.

Also the overall survival time speaks against it being worth the effort. Most people you meet will not live long enough to see you again, so there's no point in remembering them. It might be helpful if you're with a group, to more easily identifiy your team mates but other than that, I'm not sure.

That's a really defeatist attitude when it comes to new mechanics. If "what can be achieved in 35 minutes or less" is your measure then what will we EVER be able to add to the game?

I think the most compelling aspect of this idea is precisely that it makes survival more important. 35 minutes is the average, but we're gaining ten to twenty thousand completely fresh players every day, so we must take that number with a grain of salt.

In my group of seven survivors we have all been alive for over ten days, and one of us is on day 46 or so. We play on a server that has some very regular players, so it's easy to imagine by now that we would "recognize" almost everyone in the game we're likely to run into on a regular basis.

When one of us dies it's always a bummer - but only because that number gets reset. We grab the gear, load it into a truck and drive down to the coast to pick up the fresh spawn. The pain of the death usually wears off by morning... but if the same player "forgot" hundreds of categorized player identities it might sting a little more, and in turn make us strive all the harder to prevent the deaths of our friends and compatriots.

[Jgut90 71]

Very good suggestion hope the devs get a chance to see this. Take my beans!!!

[xDIx Revenge 51]

Im loving the idea of having the ability to identify people, and then recognise them later while scoping out an area. And knowing, "hey thats the guy that saved my ass 3 days ago from a bandit ambush. I might go help him out with that Zombie problem".

It could alter the chat too, if you have identified eachother as friends, and moved off on different paths, and cross again. Talking in direct, through voice and text, should somehow inform the player easily that its a friend talking to you. I don't know how to do this realistically, without just adding a [FRIEND] or a green colour to their name in text, and adding their name while they voice chat.

Also on the note of this 'notoriety' idea. I REALLY want this in this game. It would be amazing to see the cooperation and somewhat of a 'society' some servers could build up. Live in peace and harmony. Survivors who are game, and think they are good enough on their guns, can challenge the order, and maybe organise a mutany or rebellion. Suddenly the order is lost, and bandits raid the cities and towns once organised and ran by survivors. Suddenly the WHOLE game changes, due to player actions. Bandits with common interests meet up in the hope of control, power, and better loot/more giggles. Survivors meet up with the common goal of ridding the world of these bandits, and being able to survive and control the game as they were before. Simple things like posters and wanted posters, that are placed by players with an item reward of some sort, could start this whole thing.

Say theres been a survivor whos been head of the group for a while. Your all easy living, enjoying surviving. One guy gets jealous/annoyed at the leaders power/control. He decides to secretly send notes to other survivors in the group he knows feels the same. You finally get to the NWA, and suddenly 4 of your group turn, and shoot your leader dead. They demand the surrender of the rest of you, or they will kill. Someone escapes with the memory of what happened on that day, and they head for Cherno. Placing signs around the street, on the notice boards (that could be introduced) warning every new/respawned player of these bandits crimes.

It creates factions, tribes, groups and teams, moulded purely by the actions and choices of players. No game mechanics, no random decisions, no skin changing. Simply identification and memory of terrible bandits, or heroic survivors, can lead to cooperation and teamwork beyound our imagination.

And on the persistent memory thing, i dont like the idea of the identification living through death. As you are meant to be a new character/survivor. However i do think posters should last until torn down by the player they are about, or until someone can successfully identify their dead body, and put a poster about that. Heroes could be born, and shown throughout Cherno. Legendary stories of "The Medic", "The Rescue Pilot" and many more could live on in servers forever, with people striving to do the very same.

Wow... i got carried away. AWESOME

TL;DR. This game needs notoriety and memory, it would create player interactions and choices that could shape and change the way we play the game dynamically, ALL the time.

[Bribase 251]

The propaganda and wanted posters might be useful but what about a simple "share info" mechanic that comes up on the scroll wheel when you're in direct chat range. You can give someone a brief description of someone you met on your travels but only one at a time, you can't share your life's story all at once, it takes a lot of clicking and scrolling to do that. That way, losing your memory on permadeath doesn't mean losing everything but it does mean seeking out friendlies who are willing to take the time out to fill you in on the situation in Chernarus. Information isn't persistent but it is distributed.

Some enterprising players could play reconnaissance and information broking. Trading info on camps for lootz!

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

The propaganda and wanted posters might be useful but what about a simple "share info" mechanic that comes up on the scroll wheel when you're in direct chat range. You can give someone a brief description of someone you met on your travels but only one at a time, you can't share your life's story all at once, it takes a lot of clicking and scrolling to do that. That way, losing your memory on permadeath doesn't mean losing everything but it does mean seeking out friendlies who are willing to take the time out to fill you in on the situation in Chernarus. Information isn't persistent but it is distributed.

Okay, I've honestly been thinking about this. I'm glad you brought it up.

So I thought about a "Describe" mechanic that would allow you to share your accumulated player identifications with friends.

It's difficult because it starts to get a bit game-y around the edges. Like, you might not want to allow players to share 100% of their accumulated memories with 100% accuracy not least of which because it's inauthentic and does't accurately capture things like poor memory, inaccurate eyewitness accounts, etc. but also because it opens a small loophole: large clans will simply pay for a cd-key and register a "memory bank" account which will serve no other purpose than to be a repository for all accumulated memories throughout history of anyone who has ever been a member of that clan, group or squad.

The account would become like an oracle eventually, a font of knowledge about anyone and everyone who has ever played DayZ.

Maybe that's cool? They could broker the information and trade it for goods or influence?

Assassination contracts would go out on people specifically to wipe their memories?

I don't know.

Maybe make memories fade over time - or you can't share memories more than once per 24 hours, but it starts to get complicated.

I've toyed with the idea of photography. Like radios, some kind of photo equipment that would allow you to share images with friends and therefore make positive identifications but that's odd too.

Also, reputation like the more you are recognized as behaving a particular way, the more likely it is people will be able to accurately describe you - so word of your deeds travels faster the more often you are identified and spoken of (kind of like a rumor mill).

I'll think of something eventually but in the meantime I think the ability to just recognize and remember players would be a big step in the right direction.

I'll post a new thread soon once I come up with something more cohesive and coherent.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Hieronymus Josche 2]

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/14446-yet-another-suggestion-to-encourage-teamwork-and-pk-accountability/

I posted a similar idea a while ago, the big difference being, the ID reveal was the choice of the player. I would say make an item like a "bandit mask" that way a player who has it equipped can't be ID'd.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

http://dayzmod.com/f...accountability/

I posted a similar idea a while ago, the big difference being, the ID reveal was the choice of the player. I would say make an item like a "bandit mask" that way a player who has it equipped can't be ID'd.

That kind of undermines the system, no? All bandits will wear a mask and we will be right back to where we are now...

The whole point of this idea is to reward players for patient, careful observation by giving them information about potential enemies which they can use in the future to increase chances of survival for themselves and their squadmates/partners.

Edited July 23, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Hieronymus Josche 2]

Well, yes, the mask gives a survivor a way to opt out of the system, but is a way of letting anyone who see's the mask know that that survivor is hiding something, so it's like a bandit skin, but one that's self imposed. Players aren't "forced" down a path of banditry.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Hmm, yeah. Okay I guess I can get on board with that.

[Wiesn69 4]

so to concule , you want some sort of Bandit/ Friendly or Neutal FLAGGING/Nameplate system.I like that idea in gerneral.

pro: make things easyier

supports teamplay

[aseliot 23]

Sounds like a good way to do at least somekind of an identification while we arent able to change our appereance (in alpha/beta), and even then offcourse it would still have a functionality. Only i don't know what is easier, implementing this or implementing the ability to change your outfit.

[Squatthrust 3]

So I thought about a "Describe" mechanic that would allow you to share your accumulated player identifications with friends.

I've toyed with the idea of photography. Like radios, some kind of photo equipment that would allow you to share images with friends and therefore make positive identifications but that's odd too.

Also, reputation like the more you are recognized as behaving a particular way, the more likely it is people will be able to accurately describe you - so word of your deeds travels faster the more often you are identified and spoken of (kind of like a rumor mill).

In that same line of thought, I've come up with a rough idea. Have three different 'levels' of classification for people.

1. Memorization - This would be purely on an individual level, with one person seeing another. This would afford him the ability to nametag the person memorized (provided the player was close enough). This would not, however, give the ability to transfer the memory to someone else.
   
2. Squad - This would act like memorization, except requiring the consent of the other person involved. This would be used for friends that are playing the game at the same time, and would allow for different in-game benefits. Things such as sharing map markers, a unique radio frequency, syncing GPS's, etc. I think some minor graphical adjustment to squadmates would be good as well, so as to prevent friendly fire.
   
3. Photography - This would involve the person taking a picture of someone, in the same way they memorize them. The photograph would allow the player to transfer the identity of the photographed to other players, or put onto wanted/propaganda posters. It has all the advantages of memorizing the person, except it (obviously) requires a camera.
   

1, and 2 I think could be easily implemented into the mod, as much of its functionality is in the ArmA engine already. 3 might be more of a hassle, but then again I don't have any experience in modding ArmA, nor do I have detailed knowledge about its engine capabilities.

[JD_274 18]

seems kind of complicated, not sure if it would work

Edited July 25, 2012 by JD_274

[torvak 2]

With more player skins/clothes you might get more connected to your char and be able to recognize friends, but you could end up with similar dressing people teaming up, maybe shooting those they deem ill dressed. Gangs of hiphop clad eazyE impersonators could be funny though not tactical, or everyone picks the darkest clothes, boring. I'd like to get fat or pick my build/height at least.

[gizm0 96]

With more player skins/clothes you might get more connected to your char and be able to recognize friends, but you could end up with similar dressing people teaming up, maybe shooting those they deem ill dressed. Gangs of hiphop clad eazyE impersonators could be funny though not tactical, or everyone picks the darkest clothes, boring. I'd like to get fat or pick my build/height at least.

are you saying something like how apb does their customization?

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

If anyone spots similar posts or ideas floating around the forums, please PM me; I would like to keep the list in the OP up to date.

[Vigilance 9]

As long as you don't get mandatorily prompted to classify people then the idea has legs. Nothing would be worse than a bunch of popup menus appearing when an organized group of bandits assail you.

My solution was 3 flags: friendly, default, and foe, all of which are optional and secondary to a basic 'familiarity' system based on proximity over time... but it might help to have an additional flag for inner circle/survival group. Whatever the case, keep it simple.

[captainwaffles 41]

I have to disagree it would take a lot of rockets time and seems pretty useless just because you saw what they did doesn't mean everyone would by looking at them

[Louis13245 29]

I think that it's a great idea for the standalone game. The concept of being able to identify people and record them for future reference is something I'd been thinking about for a while. But the idea of memory fading on death and the argument that it make life more precious really hit home. If the gear situation is as you claim it to be, then this would make me value the life of my in-game character more. I also really like the idea of photography. I really want to be that person with a camera, crawling around and snapping shots of untoward bandits to share with friends. It'd give another niche gameplay style.

To build on it I've got a couple of suggestions:

I don't know if it would be possible to implement, but the tagging process should only really be possible if you've got a view of the face. While other features are important, we really remember people by their facial structures. So maybe you can only tag people once you've seen their face for a set period of time. After that you can tag them regardless of whether or not their back is turned, though you still have to have a direct visual. Equally so, to identify someone previously tagged, you have to be able to see their face afterwards, you can identify the person without the face as long as you don't lose sight of him for more then a minute or so. I'd tend to say that face coverings don't stop this identification system for the sake of functionality, but thats really up in the air. The idea of 20m or so with the eye, more with optics still stands though.

For photography, the photos should be able to share identities. However, the production of such photos should be difficult.

1. I'd like to believe that all the digital cameras in the world all mysteriously ultra combusted, leaving only cameras that relied on film left. This would make these cameras a lot rarer. Since you need film for these cameras, the film would probably also be pretty rare, with only 5 or so shots per roll. (Unrealistic but maybe these rolls of film have degraded and you use only the usable parts?).

2. Then comes the shooting. Obviously, the light needs to be of a certain level, no idea what that would be but it should be considered. Also the photo needs to be of the person's face, not just the back of the body. Depending on the camera type, there may be little or no zoom, so you might have to get close and personal with your target. Also, since it isn't digital, you can't see the photos until you develop them, so you don't know if you took a good photo or not.

3. Finally, you'd need to develop the film. To do this, you'd need the tools and the chemicals which are consumables and pretty rare. Then, the photos need to be left to develop for a long period of time, say 5 hours or so. Thus a good photo to build up a person's memory of people is a valuable commoditiy which only skilled players with some help can produce. Also, I want to be the paparrazi in a zombie world. That would be pretty neat. You'd probably also need a storage case for the photos, otherwise they degrade. Ultra rare shiny cases with hideously small storage. A reverse TARDIS if you will except without the time-travelling and the Doctor.

All of that would probably be hell to implement, but I'd hope to see it in the standalone, if for the sake of a more passive playstyle.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Louis13245

[Apelo 26]

I am always extremely critical of ideas that try to segregate players but for some reason this idea really works in my head. Because of course in real life you always remember a face (at least one probably would in an apocolypse).

I very much support this idea of categorizing and naming however it should be limited to VERY close range and proportional through optics (as you mention). 20 metres sounds about right and in my mind it would have to be quite subtle, so a small name in a certain not-too opaque colour, and not like the massive hand that appears on your screen on those icky regular servers.

Take all my beans.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Apelo

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I have to disagree it would take a lot of rockets time and seems pretty useless just because you saw what they did doesn't mean everyone would by looking at them

Please re-read the OP. Understand that this system does not permit "everyone" to identify a player after you have done so. This is a player specific, personal system of identification and classification. Only YOU have this information. You can certainly communicate it via voice comm to your fellow players like "Hey, that's the guy I saw murder someone in Cherno yesterday!" but the actual data will not be automatically or magically shared with others - unless of course they too are able to approach and identify the same player on their own.

By the way, that quote in your signature is mine, you should give credit where credit is due. ;)

Edited August 1, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Bjorn9486 9]

I really, really like this idea.

Instead of typing on the fly when you see someone, maybe you could spawn with an item in the tool belt named "Notebook" or something. This would allow you to make some predefined "tags" for people so when you see someone, you hover over them with your cross hair and then can scroll up/down and pick the tag. This would make it quicker when seeing someone but people would be able to make their own terminology.