Melee Weapon Petition

[statistx 5]

It's a stupid idea and won't work well with this gameplay

If you want to hack and slash zombies go play Left4Dead 2 or Dead Island

Want a "last resort"? Then save one round for your Makarov

Want to sneak past zombies? Then move slowly and carefully

Keep running out of ammo? Then conserve your ammo and stop wasting it all like it's Call of Duty

I've been playing 2 weeks and only had one time where I was actually being chased by zombies with no ammo' date=' I ran through a few buildings until I eventually found a gun

[/quote']

Yeah well, I've been playing for about 2 weeks too and my lifetimes ranged from 1 to 5 hours, with running out of bullets only one time too and that character lasted for about 1-2 hours after my last bullet left, but still i support the call for melee cause of the reasons others and me mentioned, so don't give me the CoD bullshit or turn it around and say i am asking for hack and slay overpoweredness like left 4 dead, cause if you read what i wrote, you would see that i am not wanting any strong melee weapons.

@harkonian

awesome list

---

As I mentioned before' date=' it will either end 3 ways:

[b']1) Overpowered

To the point that the majority of people would stop using guns against zombies and the ammo commodity would be destroyed and the gameplay would be entirely changed

2) Underpowered

Basically 100% useless, but a few people on here would be able to live out their Katana sword wielding fantasies which you can already do with many other arcade games)

3) Abused

Even if it was implemented SOMEWHAT correctly I could exploit it. Example, if I was being chased by zombies in a town I could just go indoors so they slow down and stack up and hack and slash them one by one without giving away my position or using ammo). To go around this you have to redo the entire zombie behavior dynamic

It's not hard to understand why this is a bad idea

^ Posted a screenshot with a rocket launcher and writes about overpowered.

It's not hard to understand what the irony here is ^^

[DJKhaled 3]

^ Posted a screenshot with a rocket launcher and writes about overpowered.

It's not hard to understand what the irony here is ^^

Are you kidding me?

The rocket launcher is ONE OF THE RAREST TIER WEAPONS IN THE GAME. It also doesn't even work against people

Having baseball bats, golf clubs, and swords lying around that can silently take out zombies and use NO AMMO = overpowered

[slappyham 1]

Most of your points would be void with a STAMINA METER :P

[statistx 5]

^ Posted a screenshot with a rocket launcher and writes about overpowered.

It's not hard to understand what the irony here is ^^

Are you kidding me?

The rocket launcher is ONE OF THE RAREST TIER WEAPONS IN THE GAME. It also doesn't even work against people

Having baseball bats' date=' golf clubs, and swords lying around that can silently take out zombies and use NO AMMO = overpowered

[/quote']

wooden sticks, lead pipes and knives would be totally enough and there were ideas tossed around how to limit them, either through the mentioned stamina bar, or durability that wears out

[harkonian 4]

wooden sticks' date=' lead pipes and knives would be totally enough and there were ideas tossed around how to limit them, either through the mentioned stamina bar, or durability that wears out

[/quote']

Instead of focusing on how it would work, look at why players have said they wanted it.

1. I want melee weapons because the game is too hard. I keep running out of ammo and still have a zombie shambling after me. That is dumb.

2. I want melee weapons because I'd like to make the game easier. It'd be really neat if I could take out 1 zombie in a city without alerting other zombies or bandits.

3. I want melee weapons because this is supposed to be a military sim and swinging shit at zombies is realistic.

None of these is a compelling reason to put melee weaons in.

[statistx 5]

wooden sticks' date=' lead pipes and knives would be totally enough and there were ideas tossed around how to limit them, either through the mentioned stamina bar, or durability that wears out

[/quote']

Instead of focusing on how it would work, look at why players have said they wanted it.

1. I want melee weapons because the game is too hard. I keep running out of ammo and still have a zombie shambling after me. That is dumb.

2. I want melee weapons because I'd like to make the game easier. It'd be really neat if I could take out 1 zombie in a city without alerting other zombies or bandits.

3. I want melee weapons because this is supposed to be a military sim and swinging shit at zombies is realistic.

None of these is a compelling reason to put melee weaons in.

Your list was great til you interpreted them into 3 points.

no 1: this reason was mentioned because it is dumb, not because it is hard. People complained that they think it's stupid to have to run away from zombies with no means of defending them.

I mean i know that i could outrun them in the proper enviroment, at least if i get to a building, but instead of playing catch, i'd rather risk using a melee weapon and die fighting, instead of die out of boredom, cause my only option is to run away.

no 2. Again..barely anyone talked about difficulty when they wrote about why they wish melee weapons. I myself just want options. Sure i can try to sneak around one lonely zombie, standing in the way of a building i want to check out, or distract them with throwing something, but again, it's about choices.

I sneak and run around alot in this game anyway, so it would be a change of pace if i have some weapon that i could swing at that zombie.

no 3. That reason is valid, even if you coat it with forced flavor through your chosen description ('swinging shit at zombies').

This mod is intended to simulate a zombie-apocalyptic enviroment. ARMA 2 is a lot about simulated realism itself and melee weapons would be a lot more realistic than some of the weapons our characters can find

Note: I am not talking about realitic, i am talking about simulated realism, since it is still a game.

I personally (and I'm not speaking for others who support this idea) want as much features in this as possible, since it is labeled a simulation.

I don't even care if some things are usefull or not. Let my character find a blade and shave, gather berries for minor foodboost, take a shit in the woods or whatever. I just ask for more options and stuff to do.

I know it is alpha, so i can not know what we will get in the future and currently i get a hell out of fun out of this mod, but if it would stay that way, with nothing more added, i know that it would get stale after a while, since besides shooting, looting and sneaking you can't do much.

[The Killing Joke 43]

None of these is a compelling reason to put melee weaons in.

Running out of ammo with only one way of killing them (running to others and hoping they shoot it) is pretty fucking compelling.

TKJ

[PeteOfButcherBay 17]

From what i read it's not likely to happen anytime soon, and i'm willing to bet that we won't see it until rocket decides or not to make DayZ on arma3 engine. but what do i know eh? we'll have to wait and see.

[hunterman52 1]

I think that melee weapons should not be made but what could replace it is a thrown weapon such as a knife or bricks to take down zombies but the items are rare but it counters it because it a silent way to take a zombie down. Would be cool to see throwing knives or kitchen knives put into the game.

[statistx 5]

I would consider thrown weapons as the overpowered solution so many seem to be worried about.

With melee you still have to get close enough to take damage, while a thrown weapon would just be similar to a 1 shot gun

[Marcuss95 0]

Agreed.

Marcus

[SnowyMatt 0]

Agreed.

The most basic combat strategy in a world of zombies is to be stealthy. This usually means opting for a melee weapon instead of a gun.

Fundamental.

[ouberlord 4]

The stealth option would entirely rely on if zombies actually have a set FOV. They may and I'm just not aware, but even then unless you are prone you still make some noise and its not as if zombies stand still. Besides, there is already a stealth option, the bow, but it could use a buff before it would be a viable option really.

I think with any melee there should be a trade off. One option would be to make it deplete some stamina per swing, and make it so if your stamina is low enough zombies can knock you down / do more damage per swipe. Thus, one or two swings to take out a zombie is viable but not a prolonged effort against a group of them. It should also have a really short range and take at least two hits to drop a zombie, as otherwise you could (lag permitting) walk through a town and pick off zombies one by one.

I've never actually ran out of ammo, but there should be some options for players right now who do. As it stands you either choose death, sneak into an area and hope it has ammo, or rely on another player (while at the same time admitting to them that you are a defenseless pinata filled with goodies).

[frozentank 0]

I think Melee weapons could work if they didn't do damage to the zombies. Just knocked them prone or slowed them down. That way you keep the need for rationing ammo but can actually do something (even if it doesn't help that much) while you're running for your life while 3 other players watch you helpless because they only have 2 bullets themselves.

[oktyabr 53]

I think with any melee there should be a trade off. One option would be to make it deplete some stamina per swing' date=' and make it so if your stamina is low enough zombies can knock you down / do more damage per swipe. Thus, one or two swings to take out a zombie is viable but not a prolonged effort against a group of them. It should also have a really short range and take at least two hits to drop a zombie, as otherwise you could (lag permitting) walk through a town and pick off zombies one by one.

[/quote']

I actually like the "two hits" idea. This combined with the time it takes to animate it (not one but two swings) would make it usable but not easy and pretty much worthless if there are several closing in on you.

[ambient 0]

the game needs melee.

Not make it extremely hard to use, or very ineffective, but there needs to be some form of it.

[Dudg 0]

I wasn't sure about the idea of melee weapons, but there has been some interesting ideas thrown about here and now I think they could have a place in DayZ. So this post kinda builds on previous ideas and adds some new stuff.

Perhaps there could be 2 types of weapon/application:

1. Desperation weapons. As the name suggests, weapons that are not ideally suited for dropping zeds, some maybe not even weapons at all. But all would have the capacity to stun or daze or make a zed stumble, just to buy you a few more seconds. e.g. pistol/rifle butts, hunting knife, whiskey bottle... They therefore do not take up an inventory slot as weapons per se, as they each have another function or are part of your primary weapon. The basic idea is that, at worst, you can always at least make yourself feel better as you pistol whip that zed with your dying breath, or at best you can buy yourself a few strides distance.

2. Proper weapons. Or rather, those weapons, tools and items that can be justifiably employed as a reasonable anti-zed weapon in a zombie apocalypse, such as baseball bats, axes, 2x4s, whatever... These weapons would be capable of actually killing a zombie, or at least dropping it in a few hits. BUT they would also take up your valuable primary weapon slot. So it would always be a toss up of value versus reward/use. But desperate times can call for desperate measures... Plus anyone ballsy enough to wonder into cherno with a baseball bat as a primary would get my admiration lol!

my 2p.

[Guryon 0]

I think anyone arguing against melee combat is missing the point of this mod (as I understand it) and that is creating an authentic zombie apoc survival experience.

Melee weapons have always been a part of that and unarguably have a place.

The balance would be thus: Quiet and fairly effective killing (depending on the actual weapon) vs the fact that you need to go toe to toe with the slavering hordes.

The question that would always come to my mind would be... Do I want to use precious ammo and possibly alert a bunch of zombies around me, or do I want to quietly kill this zombie in my way with the risk that it may get a lucky hit on me?

They main issue against melee combat is (I imagine) the difficulty of implementation. I wont comment on that because I lack the knowledge to give an intelligent and informed opinion.

[ouberlord 4]

I think implementing it as a stealth mechanic would be difficult to achieve without making other areas of the game too easy, but I'd be all for it being implemented as a high risk vs low noise (or outright last resort) option.

[megaheat 0]

Some form of melee is badly needed. Running out of ammo - you may as well just get killed and start over. Even if the game engine doesnt animate it well, just having the game "calculate" some melee damage (if there is no animation) would be ok. Melee doesnt have to be super strong - but if you have one or two zombies chasing you, it shoudn't be a game ender right there without an option.

If melee cannot be modded in because of engine restrictions, then at least have the zombies get checks to see if they will break off the pursuit - or even make it possible to lose them amongst buildings or trees if you can get line of sight blocked long enough and go stealthy.

If a hopping/crouching zombie is (slowly) chasing me, I cant see why i cannot go over a hill or run into a forest or even between buildings and he loses sight and interest in chasing.

Enjoying the game only to end up on this endless marathon run across the map with zombies in tow just kills the fun.

[statistx 5]

I think anyone arguing against melee combat is missing the point of this mod (as I understand it) and that is creating an authentic zombie apoc survival experience.

Even though i support melee weapons: The point of this mod is only what rocket wants to make out of it, so we can't be 100% sure what is a viable option and what isn't as long as he doesn't say anything about a topic

[Vengeance (DayZ) 0]

Not gonna lie, most of these arguments are pointless and without any actual basis. Most of the problems against it are easily avoided/solvable. Regardless I'm not trying to make another useless post as there are already so many. I instead choose to add something meaningful to this thread. Perhaps a suggestion.. Hmmmm...

All else fails, if not a melee weapon than would the possibility of a kick that has say a few second recharge and just knocks a single zombie down and makes him lose his target or something be a good idea. I don't know about you guys, but there's no worse feeling than missing that last shot, and having 1 zombie trail you for 15-20 minutes. Logging out is just cheating, and the house trick doesn't work in the middle of nowhere. The arguement for realism fits right in here. I'm not just gonna lie down and die.. I'm gonna kick and scre...well maybe not scream. That's just a bad idea.. You get the picture.

Let the flaming...COMMENCE!

[Bandage. 3]

Okay. I think I can somewhat agree with the guy above.

I mean, really. Every argument against the melee implementation is quite pointless in the end. There needs to be constructive planning for it, not just bashing it away just because we have many stupid and pointless predictions about it (such as "it'll make the game too easy", "it'll decrease the feeling of surviving", "there's no melee weapons ingame"). We CAN counter those issues here to be honest. It just needs a bit of thinking and good planning, first.

So let me open it all up to you guys:

1: Melee weapons aren't made for menacious killing sprees.

There's games like Left 4 Dead 2, Dead Island, Dead Rising... you name it. They have easily manouvered free style to mow down zombies just by slashing through them as they wouldn't be a serious thing in the end. These games are arcade. These games are meant for casual fun. However, Arma (and well, DayZ) can't be categorized within' these games at all. DayZ is a simulation with zombies, where killing zombies isn't sitting in the main priorities of the whole purpose of it. This isn't a casual game where we can do near impossible acts, such as mowing through a zombie horde just with a baseball bat.

Now think about it again: We've got a fairly heavy fire axe in our hands. Swing it once. Can you feel the nudge of the sweet weight? Swing it again. And once again if you dare. Isn't that just gloriously exhausting? It appears to be, unfortunately. So I've got bad news for you guys; we're not going to mow through a horde with that style at all.

'How about a light knife or similar?' you might ask.

Really, try to kill at least one of those guys who wouldn't seem to feel a thing, if we'd cut it's wrists all open. You may damage it, but you're going to die either way.

My point is that weapons, for real, can't be handled so good that they'd kill loads of zombies just like that. We can't do rapid swings with powerful weapons very well after all. We get exhausted, and our stamina decreases into dangerous levels in various ecounters.

2: Melee will decrease the difficulty of the game... but how much, for real?

What does make it too easy, may I ask? That it kills zombies way too easily, decresing the difficulty by that way? Or that they have "unlimited" use of it and we can just forget about the guns?

Man, do I really need to make a note about that you can think about how THOSE issues can be fixed off?

I just noted how melee weapons can't be used primarily at all, as their mobility level is quite hard to handle. The weapon may be quite powerful if it's a freaking large battleaxe casted into a magical fire spell of deadly gods, but the fact you can't swing it very well due to the weight itself may kill you in the zombie battle already! It needs good timing and aiming skills, where you also have to look out for the dangerous amount of stamina loss (if trying to attack continously).

Melee attacks also can't just kill everything so easily, unless they're very deadly and used extremely well (such as machette being slashed to the head a couple times successfully). How long would it actually take to kill a person with a baseball bat, again? Longer than a couple swings, that's for sure.

In fact we can smash away a zombie to the ground with a well landed hit. If we really want to kill them with melee, we need to be there for a while and keep ourselves smacking them to the ground until they're really dead for sure. That costs stamina and time, which means we can't do the same for two zombies at the same time like it wouldn't be a biggie for us.

Melee is a very bad choice to use as an offensive primary weapon tactic. It is for ecounters where only one zombie is trying to attack you and you need at least some kind of self defence where you can somewhat rely on for the last choice.

Melee shouldn't be easy at all. It's a dangerous way to defend yourself, when nothing else can help you on the way anymore.

Remember the basic law of melee fighting: "If he can hit, be ready to take some too."

3: "Unlimited use", but wooden planks doesn't seem to be made of steel.

Items do have their durabilities. And with some whacking they do get damaged pretty fast, in fact. They will get destroyed, and you can't do anything about it. But, well... exept fix it a bit if you happen to have the tools for it, but I wouldn't rely on them very much after, though.

When we think about our melee 'weapons' as 'tools' and 'items', we may use them as... well. Tools and items. In that kind of use they get their durability decreased over the time, too. At least I would get some temporaly firewood from bushes with my trusty billhook that I found from the cabins.

4: They'll destroy the need of stealth, and they can't be implemented because there's no melee related in-game!

As for need for stealth, see the point 2. It's way wiser to not to get noticed by anyone if you don't have a gun. Melee is just to cover your last try to get away from the zombies, or to dispatch a lonely zombie with no extra noise and conflict if it's on your way (and to do that, you need to have a good melee weapon and some actual skill to do that!).

There's a lot of mods showing off melee weapons for Arma 2. They may, or may not work well in the end, but they show it's implementable. And as how Arma devs stated (to my memory), they're going to support this mod a bit more due to the boost of sales. Why wouldn't they introduce some melee aspects for the game if modders struggle with it? It's not too much to ask I believe, but that's just a 'what if' to drop out for pending answers.

We need to think about the solutions, not to brag about the problems themselves!

We ARE able to plan successful melee mechanic into the game, if we actually plan and think about it. So far we're just rolling around with predictions and opinions, but with no actual solutions for them in the end.

Honestly. I want melee into the game, because it'd create a good immersion to the beginning already. We spawn with NO WEAPONS AT ALL, which is a very damn dangerous thing already. We NEED to find some temporally defense and fast, and them go to scavenge some better equipment to feel safer for youself. This way we actually add more difficulty and satisfying moments to the game, since firearms aren't simply as easy to acquire anymore.

Just think about it.

[dead3yez@gmail.com 0]

Video of a melee addon i was working on some time ago.

Just to show that melee is possible to a certain extent in arma 2. Animation + Damage based on the position of the target relative to the player.

:D

[jedijeff1993 12]

i know arma2 doesnt support melee, but it will be fine if rocket add it in.

zombies attack us with melee, right?

maybe he can add a machete model and a new animation for players,

and it works out just like the zombie melee attack

well. in walking dead... people can kill zombies even they dont have ammo...

well ,in DayZ. I cant..