Ten Reasons why Kill on Sight is 'Realistic'

[Mooseocalypse 59]

In real life, people are generally not able to handle advanced military equipment, fly a helicopter, be capable of reparing everything from a motorcyle to said helicopter, administer medical sophisticated enough to set a bone, all while being a capable hunter.

People have different proficencies (e.g. a doctor and a mechanic) which immensely increase their chance of survival together. Not to mention the mere fact that having three people allow you to sleep in shifts, preventing you from being eaten in the middle of the night.

These are hardly realistic reasons for CoD with zombies and beans.

Well I can handle military hardware and I can fly a plane. I can skin and gut an animal an know which pieces to eat, so I've got a few of those skills. My wife can do all manner of medical miracles, so together we would make a great team. Which is exactly where DayZ falls on its face.

Everyone in DayZ is a hardcore operator. We can all fly, drive, shoot, swim, administer first aid, run for miles, shoot automatic weapons, reload quickly on the run, etc etc etc.

DayZ needs player backgrounds, stat increases, lasting permanent damage, and so on.

Have you ever seen someone who has never handled a weapon before try and use it? They can't even load the damn thing, much less engage anything accurately. Character progression is the #1 feature I will be looking for in the standalone.

[Jaeskern 4]

Well I can handle military hardware and I can fly a plane. I can skin and gut an animal an know which pieces to eat, so I've got a few of those skills. My wife can do all manner of medical miracles, so together we would make a great team. Which is exactly where DayZ falls on its face.

Everyone in DayZ is a hardcore operator. We can all fly, drive, shoot, swim, administer first aid, run for miles, shoot automatic weapons, reload quickly on the run, etc etc etc.

DayZ needs player backgrounds, stat increases, lasting permanent damage, and so on.

Have you ever seen someone who has never handled a weapon before try and use it? They can't even load the damn thing, much less engage anything accurately. Character progression is the #1 feature I will be looking for in the standalone.

This guy speaks the truth.

[Tenderness 30]

Some of your arguments does seem logical for a "realistic" view on the Zombie Apocalypse.

I see how the extreme paranoia and fear could break some of our moral and ethical points of view, but that still doesn't mean "kill on sight" would be the only option does it?

I can't tell how i would react if i was half starved to death and literally scared shitless by every little noise, but i don't think i would just walk around shooting everyone i saw. Can't tell for sure however.

DayZ is supposed to be authentic, not realistic. The way people react in DayZ will be without the same ethical values as people react in real life, so it's very hard to tell actually.

[Mourek 40]

Why do you guys always complain about Player Killing? Don't you enjoy the rush and the feeling it gives you when you're being shot / hunted or you're shooting / hunting other players? It's stressfull, and it can be even exhausting, but it's the best feeling I've experienced in video games so far.

[sandorski 17]

Why do you guys always complain about Player Killing? Don't you enjoy the rush and the feeling it gives you when you're being shot / hunted or you're shooting / hunting other players? It's stressfull, and it can be even exhausting, but it's the best feeling I've experienced in video games so far.

It's not the point of the game. If that's what I wanted, I'd be playing Unreal Tournament.

[Ozark 3]

I think one of primary points that people with the solo survival and kill on site mentality miss is that solo survival is extremely difficult and unsafe. Even if we exclude the danger of hunting other people for their resources (there will always be someone better than you), there many factors that puts an individual at greater risk than a group.

For instance consider that you have successfully killed another person and taken their supplies. What happens when you twist a knee walking through a field or fall down a hill and break a leg? Or even just become incapacitated due to illness? Or any other of the countless ways you can be injured? You will most likely never recover from these situations if you are by yourself. In the end people who try to go at survival as loners will die out.

And furthermore this doesn't even take into consideration that human created resources are finite. Eventually there will be no more ammo or caned food for you to steal.

Sure there will be chaos at the outset of any type of disaster, and there will most likely be groups of people who will prey on others or just be unfreindly to anyone who isn't a part of their current group, but people will eventually be forced to group together to accomplish tasks such as farming, building shelter, ETC.

[Flambo (DayZ) 50]

To people on both sides of this issue: Please stop citing "human nature" or "what I would do" or your "personal experience". Unless some of you are PhD students with theses on human behavior in violent crises, you are not an authority on human nature. Regardless of who you are, your personal beliefs do not serve to add credibility to your opinion.

If you want the game to be a certain way, explain it in game terms. How would your idea make the game more fun, more engaging, or help to give the game a more lasting appeal? What would the downsides of your idea be? What technical considerations would need to be made to accommodate your idea?

As an interested reader of these forums, I genuinely want to know what other readers' ideas and preferences are, but all of this posturing around human nature and personal beliefs are diluting threads and distracting from real discussions about the game.

[Mourek 40]

It's not the point of the game. If that's what I wanted, I'd be playing Unreal Tournament.

You can't feel shit when you're playing UT, when you die, you just respawn. You lose absolutely nothing, while in DayZ, you can lose hours, or even days of your hard work (items hoarded, zombie kills, player kills) . That basically represents your life. You're scared for your life and that gives you the feeling that only DayZ can offer.

[sandorski 17]

"9. Oppression. Women would become a commodity. People have needs and without law and order, people take what they want. And often kill for it. A persons rights no longer exist when there is no law or repercussions. I for one would immediately turn away anyone of female gender as a companion due to their pull and / or value in such a situation. (I know this is sexist, but lets be 'realistic' here for a minute.)"

Bullshit. We arent items for survive.

You would be.Unless most Survivors were Women, then it would be Men as the Commodity.

You can't feel shit when you're playing UT, when you die, you just respawn. You lose absolutely nothing, while in DayZ, you can lose hours, or even days of your hard work (items hoarded, zombie kills, player kills) . That basically represents your life. You're scared for your life and that gives you the feeling that only DayZ can offer.

Nope. The difference is negligible. Both games you start with practically nothing, the difference is only in the length of time it takes to gear up. If that's the only difference, DayZ is nothing special at all.

[haroldsax 14]

Top 1 Reason People Kill.

1. It's the Internet. People are dicks.

[Mourek 40]

Nope. The difference is negligible. Both games you start with practically nothing, the difference is only in the length of time it takes to gear up. If that's the only difference, DayZ is nothing special at all.

I still stand up for my opinion, you can't compare UT and DayZ. The closest thing you can compare DayZ to is EVE: Online where you also lose everything.

[Tenderness 30]

It's not the point of the game. If that's what I wanted, I'd be playing Unreal Tournament.

But you see, shooting other players can very well be the "point of the game".

It's a game about survival, moreso a simulator. However you manage to survive in this game(even if it's something as stupid as licking the bark on the trees) it will be a legit way to play, and even the point of the game.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Tenderness

[M&M 12]

One things you guys are all overlooking is that if there really were a zombie apocalypse, it would not last very long. I think it is safe to assume that once somebody becomes a zombie, they lose all their cognitive abilities. Meaning they are pretty much brain dead aside from the fact that the can see and hear humans. Unless they are constantly getting a supply of normal people walking up to them ready to die, I am going to assume they die within a week. So really all people need to do is wait it out. I am sure that about a year after the outbreak, most of the zombies will be dead.

Though this is of course not going to happen because the apocalypse portrayed in dayz will never happen. Realistically, if something were to break out in a large area, take for example New York, odds are that the area will either be completely qurantined or is simply destroyed. Governments are not going to take the risk of having an infection sweep across the country and the world.

[aoshi 32]

THERE IS NO ZOMBIES IN REAL LIFE (yet)bath salts

[entelin 13]

In a real zombie apocalypse where say 99.9% of the population are initially either killed or turned into zombies here's what would happen:

First two weeks: These are your "dayz" weeks, most survivors are just going to hold up in their house if they happen to have enough fresh water. With almost no exception, those that do venture out and encounter other survivors are going to work together. Why? because the danger is coming from the zombies and supplies would be hugely plentiful almost anywhere. If that many people just up and died, just think about how much canned food could be found in any city... years worth. By the end of the first two weeks almost all zombies have died from starvation. Even if they were smart enough to drink water, or eat each other, I think the general idea behind zombies is that they are dumb, without the brain of a human they just wont be able to get food and will die off very quickly.

Next few months: Survivors group up more and this is when conflict starts potentially be a factor, mostly due to stress and organisational conflicts. Some survivors start dieing from conventional illness due to worse water quality, corpses everywhere, and reduced ability to properly treat illness depending on what skilled people you have available.

Months after that: Initial organisational issues have been sorted out, this is where bandit groups become a possibility, as well as conflict between groups of survivors. The successful groups will be the ones that can merge together both for defense, scavaging, and for the production of needed goods (like getting agriculture up and running).

My main point: Lone wolfs are almost not a factor at any point, bandit groups will have some initial success, but eventually will be destroyed by larger and more organised communities.

[gantonski 16]

this is how i invalidate your answers.......

1. Supplies. They are short, and two mouths to feed is harder than one. And face it, you might just be carrying something I can use.

You're saying you'd roll solo, IRL? You would, after the first day, break down and require the comfort of another survivor.

2. Liability. If at any point they are bitten / converted / hungry / infected / hurt I would have to use rationed supplies of medical gear to support and/or aid them. Medical gear that I could use on myself.'

You can draw a line. You can tell (or not) someone/people that youll travel with them until this time comes, at which point you will not hesitate to do what you need to do to survive. Even if it comes down to a small amount of food (split the loot, your share is yours, theirs is theirs)

3. Trust. Who is this stranger? Are they going to kill me for my limited supplies? How can I trust him/her. There is a high possibility at the point in which I sleep I may never wake up again.

Killing someone in their sleep, im pretty sure, is a very hard thing to do. Also remember that they are human, too. They will need someone just as bad as you.

4. Experience. Everyone reacts to a disaster differently. There are some that huddle together and pray, others that loot the rubble of a city shattering earthquake and others again that simply learn rapidly to adapt to their surroundings. There is no telling what kind of murderous experiences this person has had to do to survive. Including killing friends, family members and relatives.

This, so far, is your best point. but.. its not hard to detach yourself from a group. These people wont kill you for no reason, maybe for a can of beans, but in which case you kill them first, unless you're bad at killing people..... but its not like they see you and you're dead, a large amount of interaction needs to take place before someone dies.

5. Fear. Quite simply at the point where a world has been turned upside down I'd be petrified of just about everything. A realistic approach to any situation. Panic sets in and fight or flight takes over - trust goes out the window.

Its okay to be scared... but im willing to bet my life that you're more scared to rely on your two eyes and ears and would want the effects of having that from another person/group. Unless you think you're competent enough to survive alone given the huge list of things i wont mention that make it hard.. (aka anyhting that puts your physical/mental health below anything of an athlete)

6. Disease. I don't know who you are, where you've been or what you are carrying. My survival may rely on what little medical supplies I could scavenge together and in a world where a cold or diarrhea could be fatal - I want you as far away from me as possible.

You dont know otherwise though, either.. and yeah i'll keep going back to my point of not being able to cope with being alone.. the risk of being with someone who may (or may not) be diseased far exceeds that of being alone and dying and not having anyone to help you.. dont forget... people have things like pet dogs that will be lose in the street, much more vicious in nature than you... 2 people vs 1 dog is an idea i'd happily kill a kitten for in post apoc zombie world.

7. Mental Distress. Many disorders occur during high stress situations, including mental distress, dementia, over self preservation, delusion etc. There is no telling what kind of mental state a person is in after that kind of traumatic experience. There is also no telling what mental state I would be in - you have to factor in the fact that you might just go bat shit crazy. You never know, maybe its you who are the crazed bandit that finds power in numbers and goes around killing and taking what you need. Whats stopping you?

You ever seen Castaway? When you have the opportunity (and knowledge) to choose a real life person to help cope with mental distress vs a volley ball, i promise on my life you'd choose a human. also im pretty sure science has proven that you WILL go crazy if you're alone... not to mention in a post apoc zombie scenario.. maybe the person is crazy, or maybe you fear they put you at risk... just leave them to fend for themselves.

8. Bandit Packs. I hate to say this but yes, it would happen. People would band together and forge a new life for themselves, strongest first. Weakest second. The meek are not the mighty.

You're right, it would happen. Form a pack of survivors, not bandits. That will not make you weak... Also, if you're solo (like you imply you would be) you wont want to be alone anywhere near a bandit pack.. in which case you arent killing on sight at this point, you're running for safety... so i feel #8 is invalid to your thread topic

9. Oppression. Women would become a commodity. People have needs and without law and order, people take what they want. And often kill for it. A persons rights no longer exist when there is no law or repercussions. I for one would immediately turn away anyone of female gender as a companion due to their pull and / or value in such a situation. (I know this is sexist, but lets be 'realistic' here for a minute.)

Idk why you put realistic in ' marks... are you saying its not what you might consider realistic? You almost have a 'realistic' point but i just dont think its realistic. if someone comes at you/her that is time between on-sight where you have decisions of defense/survival to consider.. if i had a female with me who i wanted to keep with me, i'd kill anything in a heartbeat to protect what i had. whether it be a girlfriend, friend, companion, second set of eyes/ears/ideas, you name it.

10. Area Denial. If you're making a living in a 256 x 256 square mile radius and there are fifty other people or more trying to stay alive in the same area - you're going to have some conflict. Zombies or no someones going to want to take someone out. Whats mine is mine, whats yours can also be mine.

To this, i'd like to say i think a good amount of those people would be grouped up as some form of organized community and you would then be taking whats theirs, not them taking whats yours. You'll be killed or banished, and if you think you're going to go up against people (plural) who disagree with you, then guess again.

So saying 'IN A REAL SITUATION!!' is moot really ... in a 'real' situation it would be doggy dog and people would kill each other just as viciously as they do in the game.

Most people wouldnt have the confidence to go up against the world alone... so no, it would be groups vs solo or groups vs groups.. it just depends on what group you're part of and what your future goals are. Just because civilization as you know it fell apart, doesnt mean you cant have a downgraded version of it. Think of it something along the lines of making $250k a year and then going homeless due to the economy... what would that person do? He/she would try to reestablish himself in society-sure its still civilized, but it would be intuition to get back on top. spend 1 day of your post apoc world and youll realize you cant make it on your own.

plus, to be more directly blunt, i'm willing to bet you dont have the skill set to survive alone, at least not as long as you'd like.

As for being shot in game, if you take the chance to help someone out / take them out completely its an unrealistic in game decision. A lot of people play this game for the experience - and once that experience is over they turn to banditry. What else are you going to do with an AS50, a backpack full of ammo and a range finder. You could die and loot it all again or you can shoot people.

And this is what happens. I play for the experience of being presented with hard (real life) choices.. that being... helping someone but then it turns out they want to kill me. the psychological transition i get from wanting to help someone to it turns out i have to kill them is the scenario i love. I hold caps lock and i nerd rage and hell just as if i was threatened in real life and my heart is racing. This is what DayZ is for me.

Edited July 20, 2012 by gantonski

[core.- 28]

I wonder where everyone gets the notion that with absolute freedom, most of humanity will keep its humanity.

I reckon in the real world if one person were to find another.. they might band for awhile, if they run across a few more people it quickly becomes a group... if this group encounters another group however... the 2 groups might try to help each other but eventually will get to a point where one of the groups turns to violence to get what they want.

The true survivors are selfish. If your only reason to live is to survive... you are already lost. I think thats what alot of people are trying to get at around here. However I believe its completely naieve to think that more then 66% of humanity will keep their ethics and morality.

If there was a common enemy.. like for instance something that actively hunts and eradicates them(alien incursion, robot uprising...) then sure... maybe only 10% would cast away their worldly bonds... but this is a zombie apocalypse.. whilst dangerous its prolly the "slowest" eradication of the last humanity as opposed to... alien invasion, robot singularity... etc etc.

Still, those that cling to the notion that others will remain inherently good and unbiased are as biased as those that believe god exists. Humans are capable of every single inhumane act known to man.. Most however decide not to act on those inhumane impulses cause of the repercussions that "might" occur. A global law enforcement scheme is good for deterring 90% of all crimes.. theres still crime however and thats because the remaining 10% either doesnt have a choice or enjoys the freedom. The biggest issue at present is not the 10%... its the 90% that is not yet aware of how much they might enjoy absolute freedom and its abuse... simply because they never had a need to or desire to deal with the consequences.

As stated... you dont need military grade weapons or nightvision and rangefinders.. or as50s to deal with zombies... The only reason you need high end military gear is when you are hunting players. Killing bandits without a trial is just as inhumane as killing survivors for their beans. You cant argue civilzation doesnt exist anymore and therefore they dont deserve a free trial! because civilization starts with you.

TLDR: Killing survivors for their beans, or any other reason.. is just as inhumane as killing bandits without a trial. (Maybe they were shot at first! maybe it was self defense! who knows!)

Anyone that kills in this game cannot argue that what they did is in any way humane... and those that argue killing zombies is totally humane should really stop rationalizing.

The only way to keep your morality and code of ethics alive(humanity) is to NEVER EVER FALTER from them... especially in a world like DayZ... if you are prepared to pull the trigger without being 100% sure that the person you are looking at is deserving of the "justice" that you are about to bestow upon him... then you are no better than a bandit.

Because even if you are sure... who the fuck gives you the right?

Everyone needs to take a step back and quit pretending this is about realism, socialism and survivalism. This is still a game... play it however you want to play it. Just try not to cheat.

And the comments about the humand peerbonding and equality crap really needs to stop. I am so tired of the goddamn pop psychology I see going on here. ALL HUMANS NEED HUMANS ALL THE TIME FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER. I dont even understand how something so retarded has been rationalized into everyones head. You can cut the bonds with anyone you know, it might take time or sacrifice but its possible. It is even possible to rid yourself of almost all your bonds, or maybe just all of them. Does this stop you from being able to form new bonds? of course not... but you cant fucking scream that just because he does create a new bond ON THEIR OWN TERMS it somehow proves its NECESSARY.

Propogation of the species is one thing. Pretending everyone around you is as addicted to other humans around you and preaching about it like its a goddamn religion should be a fucking sin.

Edited July 20, 2012 by core.-

[skyter 299]

If you really believe that if this was a 'real' simulation and there was 'consequences' to your actions if you murder someone and people would for some reason 'not' kill each other in a zombie apocalypse. You're deluded. Shooting on sight might just be your key to survival - any interaction you take with another person would be entirely at your own risk. Who's to say they won't just shoot you first?

TEN Reasons why I would kill anyone I met in real life during a zombie apoc:

(assuming they ignored warnings to keep away .. or I just needed something)

1. Supplies. They are short, and two mouths to feed is harder than one. And face it, you might just be carrying something I can use.

2. Liability. If at any point they are bitten / converted / hungry / infected / hurt I would have to use rationed supplies of medical gear to support and/or aid them. Medical gear that I could use on myself.

3. Trust. Who is this stranger? Are they going to kill me for my limited supplies? How can I trust him/her. There is a high possibility at the point in which I sleep I may never wake up again.

4. Experience. Everyone reacts to a disaster differently. There are some that huddle together and pray, others that loot the rubble of a city shattering earthquake and others again that simply learn rapidly to adapt to their surroundings. There is no telling what kind of murderous experiences this person has had to do to survive. Including killing friends, family members and relatives.

5. Fear. Quite simply at the point where a world has been turned upside down I'd be petrified of just about everything. A realistic approach to any situation. Panic sets in and fight or flight takes over - trust goes out the window.

6. Disease. I don't know who you are, where you've been or what you are carrying. My survival may rely on what little medical supplies I could scavenge together and in a world where a cold or diarrhea could be fatal - I want you as far away from me as possible.

7. Mental Distress. Many disorders occur during high stress situations, including mental distress, dementia, over self preservation, delusion etc. There is no telling what kind of mental state a person is in after that kind of traumatic experience. There is also no telling what mental state I would be in - you have to factor in the fact that you might just go bat shit crazy. You never know, maybe its you who are the crazed bandit that finds power in numbers and goes around killing and taking what you need. Whats stopping you?

8. Bandit Packs. I hate to say this but yes, it would happen. People would band together and forge a new life for themselves, strongest first. Weakest second. The meek are not the mighty.

9. Oppression. Women would become a commodity. People have needs and without law and order, people take what they want. And often kill for it. A persons rights no longer exist when there is no law or repercussions. I for one would immediately turn away anyone of female gender as a companion due to their pull and / or value in such a situation. (I know this is sexist, but lets be 'realistic' here for a minute.)

10. Area Denial. If you're making a living in a 256 x 256 square mile radius and there are fifty other people or more trying to stay alive in the same area - you're going to have some conflict. Zombies or no someones going to want to take someone out. Whats mine is mine, whats yours can also be mine.

So saying 'IN A REAL SITUATION!!' is moot really ... in a 'real' situation it would be doggy dog and people would kill each other just as viciously as they do in the game.

As for being shot in game, if you take the chance to help someone out / take them out completely its an unrealistic in game decision. A lot of people play this game for the experience - and once that experience is over they turn to banditry. What else are you going to do with an AS50, a backpack full of ammo and a range finder. You could die and loot it all again or you can shoot people.

Then how do explain why the human civilization is still alive after thousands of years of different hardships?

I hate people like you that justify something so complex with a bunch of BS that through history have been proven MOOT, just to try and justify a forced play style.

People kill in this game because they're bored and they can. There is no real weight to the decision. end/

Half the reasons you state have no application to anything in the game btw, you can't make shit up and say "oh well derp derp derp"

[kingfury4 65]

My reasoning, that person can be a threat, if not at first they could be waiting for the right moment to put a bullet in the back of your head.

[skyter 299]

My reasoning, that person can be a threat, if not at first they could be waiting for the right moment to put a bullet in the back of your head.

that boils down to community mindset.

If people normally killed everyone they saw IRL chances are you would carry a gun and do the same. If it's a minority of people, you probably wouldn't, as IRL. It's still a shitty circular logic that ends up making everyone lose in the long run.

Edited July 20, 2012 by skyter

[franciscojose 7]

This is no bullshit, OP is totally right. I gave u my beans man.

[skyter 299]

This is no bullshit, OP is totally right. I gave u my beans man.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-550c7TTWDG4/T3wemW-j-2I/AAAAAAAAAGI/nYyFmqBpTlk/s1600/tumblr_lhk530rT1z1qafrh6.jpg

[omgwtfbbq (DayZ) 1069]

"it would be DOGGY DOG"

wow that is probably the stupidest thing i've ever heard anybody ever say.

[pooky (DayZ) 1]

The ability to respawn changes the perspective on everything, in game each player is effectively a nobody. They have no past, no mother, no family or relatives and you know that when they die, they will come back to life sans their items. You can't recognise them as a person, most people look the same due to the engine and lack of customization, and after all we all consciously know this is just a game.

Is it really that hard to get back items? It's just a matter of time, maybe a few hours to get some good items again. Furthermore, when you have accumulated some nice gear what else are you going to do than start picking fights? Wander aimlessly collecting water and beans? That's not much of a game, and eventually the zombie aspect becomes greatly trivialised. And really, due to respawns death really has very little consquence for the dealer or the receiver.

In real life people are thinking about the future, how they want to live, how they can be safe and how they can protect what they care about. In this game, the loftiest goal is finding some rare guns or vehicles and keeping them, and knowing that it doesn't matter if you die because you can always find another.

Stealing and killing are things that do happen in real life, and when presented the opportunity it's surprising what people will do when they think they can get away with it. However, in general people tend to try to avoid trouble as it often has a funny way of blowing up in your face.

What we are seeing is really the result of having an online game, with a primary focus of guns, where there is not much left for players to do in the end game, and the survival aspect of the game is actually rather easy. Of course people start going around looking to PvP, what else is there to do? It doesn't reflect much on what would happen in reality, because it is nothing close to it.

[WeTheFallen 4]

I went hiking last weekend, made the mistake of letting a friend bring his whiny girlfriend. about an hour into the trek they were both crying about how tired they are, i kept thinking how if this was a dayz situtaion theyd be a liablilty and id have to put them both down.