Ten Reasons why Kill on Sight is 'Realistic'

[Andrej Dudev 50]

You're actually lucky that the game is limited in scope. Look at any part of history' date=' humans are dicks -- Why would you possibly think otherwise? Even now, with all our pretty laws there are still serial killers, people who rob, rape, murder and torture for monetary gain, pleasure or power.

[/quote']

You are looking at a little portion of the total population.

Even without rules and laws most of the actual population won't reverse to killer cavemen until at least 4-5 generations.

A small portion of the population is not a number to take in consideration when making assumptions about overall humankind.

Law of large numbers in sociology.

[TheBrassThief 3]

If you really believe that if this was a 'real' simulation and there was 'consequences' to your actions if you murder someone and people would for some reason 'not' kill each other in a zombie apocalypse. You're deluded. Shooting on sight might just be your key to survival - any interaction you take with another person would be entirely at your own risk. Who's to say they won't just shoot you first?

TEN Reasons why I would kill anyone I met in real life during a zombie apoc:

(assuming they ignored warnings to keep away .. or I just needed something)

1. Supplies. They are short' date=' and two mouths to feed is harder than one. And face it, you might just be carrying something I can use.

2. Liability. If at any point they are bitten / converted / hungry / infected / hurt I would have to use rationed supplies of medical gear to support and/or aid them. Medical gear that I could use on myself.

3. Trust. Who is this stranger? Are they going to kill me for my limited supplies? How can I trust him/her. There is a high possibility at the point in which I sleep I may never wake up again.

4. Experience. Everyone reacts to a disaster differently. There are some that huddle together and pray, others that loot the rubble of a city shattering earthquake and others again that simply learn rapidly to adapt to their surroundings. There is no telling what kind of murderous experiences this person has had to do to survive. Including killing friends, family members and relatives.

5. Fear. Quite simply at the point where a world has been turned upside down I'd be petrified of just about everything. A realistic approach to any situation. Panic sets in and fight or flight takes over - trust goes out the window.

6. Disease. I don't know who you are, where you've been or what you are carrying. My survival may rely on what little medical supplies I could scavenge together and in a world where a cold or diarrhea could be fatal - I want you as far away from me as possible.

7. Mental Distress. Many disorders occur during high stress situations, including mental distress, dementia, over self preservation, delusion etc. There is no telling what kind of mental state a person is in after that kind of traumatic experience. There is also no telling what mental state I would be in - you have to factor in the fact that you might just go bat shit crazy. You never know, maybe its you who are the crazed bandit that finds power in numbers and goes around killing and taking what you need. Whats stopping you?

8. Bandit Packs. I hate to say this but yes, it would happen. People would band together and forge a new life for themselves, strongest first. Weakest second. The meek are not the mighty.

9. Oppression. Women would become a commodity. People have needs and without law and order, people take what they want. And often kill for it. A persons rights no longer exist when there is no law or repercussions. I for one would immediately turn away anyone of female gender as a companion due to their pull and / or value in such a situation. (I know this is sexist, but lets be 'realistic' here for a minute.)

10. Area Denial. If you're making a living in a 256 x 256 square mile radius and there are fifty other people or more trying to stay alive in the same area - you're going to have some conflict. Zombies or no someones going to want to take someone out. Whats mine is mine, whats yours can also be mine.

So saying 'IN A REAL SITUATION!!' is moot really ... in a 'real' situation it would be doggy dog and people would kill each other just as viciously as they do in the game.

[/quote']

You can apply every single one of those rules to real life when we were simply cave men. All of those fears are valid and were valid back when we were very small bands of creatures that wandered around nomadically. However we didnt kill eachother. Our groups got bigger. And bigger. And bigger. If you were right we would STILL be tiny bands of people bashing eachothers brains out. But we arnt. We formed society. If what youre saying is true society wouldnt exist. It does. Ergo you have to be wrong.

If you can explain WHY people formed larger and larger groups from doggy dog head bash bandit groups and STILL tell me all of the above is true ill be impressed.

[Sorn 0]

So saying 'IN A REAL SITUATION!!' is moot really ... in a 'real' situation it would be doggy dog

"dog eat dog" which is amusing because the game is "human eat human"

"In a real situation" :

you'd have to live with the real emotional repercussions of your actions.

you'd die of things like tetanus, staph and strokes.

you'd yearn for contact with other living, breathing human beings.

you'd be suffering from PTSD.

I think when people say "realistically" they're referring to the humanizing effects of real life.

It's easy to steal in a video game, it isn't as easy in real life.

It's easy to kill in a video game, it isn't as easy in real life.

In a video-game I don't think our brains connect these actions with other human beings. They are victim-less crimes because we can't see, smell or touch the people they're being done to.

The question, in my mind, is whether we want the game to enforce this social aspect on us with mechanics or not. It appears that Rocket does not want to do this, which is of course his prerogative.

In closing: You might still kill, rape and steal, no doubt. But you'd suffer consequences, consequences that are not to be found in this mod. This is the "realistic" people refer to.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

You're actually lucky that the game is limited in scope. Look at any part of history' date=' humans are dicks -- Why would you possibly think otherwise? Even now, with all our pretty laws there are still serial killers, people who rob, rape, murder and torture for monetary gain, pleasure or power.

[/quote']

You are looking at a little portion of the total population.

Even without rules and laws most of the actual population won't reverse to killer cavemen until at least 4-5 generations.

A small portion of the population is not a number to take in consideration when making assumptions about overall humankind.

Law of large numbers in sociology.

Don't be naive.

Have you seen the effects of what humans do when they think they can get away with it? Group mentality that results in the most disgusting atrocities and murders? What "law abiding" people do during natural disasters or riots? What happens during wars which are not strongly regulated?

Please.

There's a reason there's laws in the first place and they're not just a set of "please follow this" they are backed up with threats. Even religious laws are backed up with threats of eternal damnation.

Take a look at what happened in Africa or the Balkans not long ago. Were they all holding hands and being awesome together when they thought there would be no repercussions to their actions? No, they killed hundreds of thousands of people "because they could". To remove them as a threat, for fun, for power for their stuff.

Everyone would be Vikings. And the only reason people would begin grouping up is to become more effective Vikings to kill and steal from bigger groups more effectively. That happens already in game, find a group of friends and get on Teamspeak.

Do you know how countries with laws came into existence? Here's a hint -- It wasn't a bunch of people going "lets all be friends". It was because one tribe was so damn good at stealing and killing that it became enormous and ate up all the other tribes. The big honcho in charge wanted to control his minions a lot more effectively -- You can't take on another country if your people feel unsafe and are fighting each other. Even now countries are STILL fighting other countries for their stuff.

Don't state you can't "make friends in game" I have, use your mic -- You can get invited to peoples team speaks too.

[vanilladragon 1]

its impossible to have a rational argument with someone who believes human beings would devolve into psychopaths killing everyone they saw given a zombie apocalypse. theyre obviously chemically imbalanced.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

its impossible to have a rational argument with someone who believes human beings would devolve into psychopaths killing everyone they saw given a zombie apocalypse. theyre obviously chemically imbalanced.

Read a history book then read a psychology book.

[vanilladragon 1]

its impossible to have a rational argument with someone who believes human beings would devolve into psychopaths killing everyone they saw given a zombie apocalypse. theyre obviously chemically imbalanced.

Read a history book then read a psychology book.

where in history have humans beings walked around shooting every person they see on sight? you make the claim show me the evidence.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

its impossible to have a rational argument with someone who believes human beings would devolve into psychopaths killing everyone they saw given a zombie apocalypse. theyre obviously chemically imbalanced.

Read a history book then read a psychology book.

where in history have humans beings walked around shooting every person they see on sight? you make the claim show me the evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Get a clue. Know what you'd be when the big day comes? A victim.

[vanilladragon 1]

its impossible to have a rational argument with someone who believes human beings would devolve into psychopaths killing everyone they saw given a zombie apocalypse. theyre obviously chemically imbalanced.

Read a history book then read a psychology book.

where in history have humans beings walked around shooting every person they see on sight? you make the claim show me the evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Get a clue. Know what you'd be when the big day comes? A victim.

a politically organised genocide perpetrated for ideological reasons.

individuals were not skulking around shooting people for the simple reason they could see them, like what is happening in this game.

hardly applicable.

[billw 1]

its impossible to have a rational argument with someone who believes human beings would devolve into psychopaths killing everyone they saw given a zombie apocalypse. theyre obviously chemically imbalanced.

Read a history book then read a psychology book.

where in history have humans beings walked around shooting every person they see on sight? you make the claim show me the evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Get a clue. Know what you'd be when the big day comes? A victim.

Right, so your own evidence refutes your claim. Everyone DOESN'T run around killing everyone. SOME PEOPLE do. There has NEVER been a time or event in the entire history of humanity where everyone killed everyone else on sight. If your argument is that you are safer if you do then that is totally different. But the original argument is phrased to imply that everyone would do this, where as this blatantly isn't true. And there is no evidence you can bring to bear to show that it is because all examples that you could show of some people killing some other people are only SOME PEOPLE. Like I said before, assholes like to try and convince themselves that being an asshole is somehow inevitable and that its only laws that stop us all from raping and killing each other. Even though our laws came from our underlying morality and not the otherway around.

[KOS11 0]

You're actually lucky that the game is limited in scope. Look at any part of history' date=' humans are dicks -- Why would you possibly think otherwise? Even now, with all our pretty laws there are still serial killers, people who rob, rape, murder and torture for monetary gain, pleasure or power.

[/quote']

You are looking at a little portion of the total population.

Even without rules and laws most of the actual population won't reverse to killer cavemen until at least 4-5 generations.

A small portion of the population is not a number to take in consideration when making assumptions about overall humankind.

Law of large numbers in sociology.

Don't be naive.

Have you seen the effects of what humans do when they think they can get away with it? Group mentality that results in the most disgusting atrocities and murders? What "law abiding" people do during natural disasters or riots? What happens during wars which are not strongly regulated?

Please.

There's a reason there's laws in the first place and they're not just a set of "please follow this" they are backed up with threats. Even religious laws are backed up with threats of eternal damnation.

Take a look at what happened in Africa or the Balkans not long ago. Were they all holding hands and being awesome together when they thought there would be no repercussions to their actions? No, they killed hundreds of thousands of people "because they could". To remove them as a threat, for fun, for power for their stuff.

Everyone would be Vikings. And the only reason people would begin grouping up is to become more effective Vikings to kill and steal from bigger groups more effectively. That happens already in game, find a group of friends and get on Teamspeak.

Do you know how countries with laws came into existence? Here's a hint -- It wasn't a bunch of people going "lets all be friends". It was because one tribe was so damn good at stealing and killing that it became enormous and ate up all the other tribes. The big honcho in charge wanted to control his minions a lot more effectively -- You can't take on another country if your people feel unsafe and are fighting each other. Even now countries are STILL fighting other countries for their stuff.

Don't state you can't "make friends in game" I have, use your mic -- You can get invited to peoples team speaks too.

uH ! that was perfect loool. please read my post on general forum and let me know what you think and or if it sums up the behavior in DAYZ accurately.

WELL SAID love your response.

[gopher_p 1]

Because DayZ is a videogame' date=' people get bored from surviving and start shooting each other. And have fun at that.

[/quote']

"Because I was bored" and "Because it's fun" are rarely valid justifications for questionable behavior. Not it "real life" and not in games (video or otherwise).

And then feel guilty for it.

Guilt is a natural reaction when you've done something wrong.

And then start apologetic threads like these' date=' because they fail to distinguish between video game and reality.

[/quote']

The people playing are real. The emotional reactions that people have as a result of playing the game (including the fun and guilt that you mentioned) are real. The problem is not that people fail to distinguish between video games and reality. The problem is that some people have not yet realized that their digital interactions with other people qualify as the "real world". They are different mediums for interaction, and they do not have the same "rules". But their rulesets are more alike than they are different.

Accept that its simply fun to kill people in dayz. It doesnt mean that youre a potential mass murderer.

I would ask you where it is that you find fun in killing people in this game. If it's fun because you know that you've harmed another person (another person, not another person's character), then that is a sign of immaturity at best and may qualify as antisocial/sociopathic behavior. If it's fun for another reason, I would encourage you to consider the amount of "not fun" you are causing when you kill. I'm not suggesting that you change the way you play. I'm just saying that you should consider the consequences of your in-game actions relating to other players and decide for yourself what is the proper course of action.

[KOS11 0]

Didnt read all post so not sure if it was mentioned already' date='but the prevalent reason of rampart killing in DayZ is not any kind of "real life simulation", but simply because we have means and are allowed to.

Also to the guy saying that he couldnt trust even his friends he has known for 10 years or more...dude, you're a sad person really.

[/quote']

you call me sad, i call myself realist. feel free to wrap your self up in a blanket and watch t.v. this morning.

[DeathHaze420 0]

Women would become a commodity.

Yep. In a major apocalypse of any time women go back to being a commodity. any woman who thinks otherwise would be killed in that situation. Don't need someone not willing to cooperate.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Humans fights each other only AFTER they have formed factions (in the ancient, and even today in some zones of the earth they were simply tribes). They can be distinguished by the nationality, or by any other convincment (ie: the religion). Only then they start to fight for the supremacy or for a specific resource (ie: a war for natural resources; a war to impose a certain religion..).

You never have a situation like "all against all" (death-match), it never existed (neither when the society that we know today had yet to be formed); but you would have eventually a situation like: a faction (or more) against other factions (in a videogame it would be a "team death-match).

Ironically that was exactly what we had before with the skin: basically "survivors" VS "bandits" ... that was much more realistic (considering the antrolpological aspect) of the current situation ... what wasn't realistic was about the "magic clothings transformation", but that would have been fixed eventually with a different (more real solution).

So please, stop saying that in a zombie apocalypse most of ppl will kill the others INDIVIDUALLY, it wouldn't happens... you must have watched too many action movies or such.

In DayZ it happens because IT IS A VIDEOGAME, it's not your life, you play it for some hours, but your life needs are (of course) outside of the monitor... seems pretty obvious, in fact it is! :)

[DeathHaze420 0]

Didnt read all post so not sure if it was mentioned already' date='but the prevalent reason of rampart killing in DayZ is not any kind of "real life simulation", but simply because we have means and are allowed to.

Also to the guy saying that he couldnt trust even his friends he has known for 10 years or more...dude, you're a sad person really.

[/quote']

you call me sad, i call myself realist. feel free to wrap your self up in a blanket and watch t.v. this morning.

Don't worry man, I think you're realistic in that idea. If that was the state of real life no-one could be trusted.

[Esoteric 2]

These conditions would only be met after a heavy, long going, no cure insight sort of apocalypse.

Assuming all of a sudden there was a bunch of zombies roaming around, infecting others, killing etc, there would -still- be a government, everyone would flock to this govenrment initially, as the human population goes down then I believe things might get pretty crazy. The 'government' would just appear to be a bandit group, others would form their own groups, granted they probably won't be as large or civilized as the initial group, it'd still be a group.

Lonewolves would be extremely rare, people find security in groups, people themselves are resources and therefore valuable to groups.

In this game however, you can easily survive on your own, forever and ever and ever. So theres no real need for groups.

[Slyguy65 499]

1. No supplies are plentiful, plus most times i see other kill or die myself...im not even looted. (i get sniped and am then left to die i sit there with no one even coming over)

2. you pretty much just reiterated point 1 and MADE up reasons "infection" ya that is not in the game.

3. Interesting i wasn't aware shooting strangers was a good thing i mean by your logic the whole trayvon martin thing should be pretty cut and dry the nigger obviously should have been shot since he was a stranger to the poor paranoid white man yep....sound and fair logic.

4. really were supposed to just assume are character had a life before I MADE HIM/HER? wow thats the second time you making something up

5. Fear...finally something realistic and agreeable yes...fear MAY cause shoot on sight but last time i checked most of us can't pull the trigger unless they know they are about to die...

6. Disease....wow ok another "bullets solve everything" logic....ok well by this REALISTIC LOGIC we should all gear up and hunt down every mother fucker with AIDS...and any incurable disease that can spread....ya cause that is very real....just avoid them you homicidal maniac.

7. Ah yes you bring a good point here....but like "infection" it does not exist in the game though i think there should be a "sanity" or mental health meter.

8.Yes exactly they would also have more distinguished looks....they would not look identical to a scavenger...i assure you but apparently the game thinks we are wrong so the game is unrealistic in that sense.

9. Also true...but because of the extreme hypocrisy of people where murder is A-OK and rape is pure evil beyond compare...it is obvious why this will not be a feature though prisoner/slave/captured element feature would be nice.

10. Your logic is flawed....asian culture proves you don't need much space to live at all to live in your thinking in american buddy.

Shit in REALITY the russians (game takes place in russia) would think the space to people ratio is more than generous.

JUST ADMIT

The reason people kill eachother and are assholes is because this is IN REALITY just a game and fucking with others gets computer people off...in a sick way.

[TheMachine 803]

People crying about shoot on sight just want safe zones or PvP free servers, that's what they're driving at.

Why not just come out and say it, instead of skirting the issue?

[EyeoftheYeti 44]

OP you lost me at "doggy dog"

[Echonian 2]

Well, this thread has been interesting to read.

I see claims that human beings would devolve into psychopaths immediately. While it is true that society would be more brutal after something such as a zombie apocalypse, this would almost certainly be caused by poor attempts at rebuilding civilization (dictatorships would be on the rise, as people would be willing to risk terror for a chance of safety).

As to the overall idea that killing others would give you an advantage (with ill-informed evolutionary references) over others, that really doesn't apply as well as some people seem to think. While I doubt killing others would be an enormous difficulty for certain insane individuals, doing so would actually decrease their chances of surviving in the long term.

They would be very unlikely to form a group, even with those who think like them, as anybody with a shoot-on-sight mentality is going to shoot someone who they think is threatening long before trying to do a team up. People more willing to work together would have an advantage by being able to split up roles in survival, which is how human society functions at its most basic level already.

"Bandits" would exist, as there are plenty of people who are ignorant and psychotic enough to kill other people if something like this happened. Fortunately for modern society, they are a very small minority of the population.

Bottom line is that groups would have an advantage in surviving by splitting up their duties for things they specialize in. A group that trusts one another would have a distinct advantage when put up evenly against a group that does not, and would vastly outnumber groups of killers for the simple reason that such groups would implode much more readily. This is without even considering human nature, which is a mixed bag.

Can't believe I wasted time reading this or even posting this. I feel as if I'm responding to either trolls, or individuals who do not have the faintest idea how society or human nature behave on a large scale. Especially when said individuals point to LARGE SCALE government atrocities or tiny-scale murder sprees as their evidence for everyone becoming trigger happy (despite those still being a very small minority in the world a whole).

[Andrej Dudev 50]

Can't believe I wasted time reading this or even posting this. I feel as if I'm responding to either trolls' date=' or individuals who do not have the faintest idea how society or human nature behave on a large scale. Especially when said individuals point to LARGE SCALE government atrocities or tiny-scale murder sprees as their evidence for everyone becoming trigger happy (despite those still being a very small minority in the world a whole).

[/quote']

Oh well, this summarize most of my points ( 1 | 2 )

It's hard to discuss about this matter if the other part pretends and assume to be able to determine humankind reactions to everything with no apparent basis except their personal opinions.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

You're right guys, if the world ended and there were no rules or laws we'd all sit down together and have a picnic. We totally don't exploit animals and other people in disgusting ways on a daily basis. Every single person without exception would start a giant hippy communion and we'd all live happily ever after.

Because that's how the real world works.

:heart: "All you need is love." :) - John Lennon... Know what happened to him? He got shot.

While you're building your hippy camp I'll be waiting until you've almost finished so I can execute you all and take your hippy camp.

[TheMachine 803]

You're right guys' date=' if the world ended and there were no rules or laws we'd all sit down together and have a picnic. We totally don't exploit animals and other people in disgusting ways on a daily basis. Every single person without exception would start a giant hippy communion and we'd all live happily ever after.

Because that's how the real world works.

And while you're building your hippy camp I'll be waiting until you've almost finished so I can execute you all and take your hippy camp.

[/quote']

Yeah, I'm down for that, but we should keep some of them as sex slaves.

Perhaps some others as worker drones.

Each week we'll have a sacrifice, like the mayans and aztecs would do, just to keep people in line.

[Nalamin 0]

KOS11

Wow...your an ill-educated bore who can't get out an intelligent thought out without name calling and spewing hate. Hell, you can't get an intelligent thought out at all.

1) I own guns myself and have used them...have you? Some how I think you may have raped or murdered someone. Seeing as how you sound like a sociopath.

2) I lived through Katrina myself. Not in New Orleans but not super far. My neighbors and I made sure anyone like you was sent packing. You are the one with stupid attitudes about what happened.

In "reality" people would group up and kill people like you. It is just human nature to remove threats.

However, in DayZ, reality is not in play, PK'rs are pretty much anonymous and death is not a permanent state. This allows people who enjoy killing to get their rocks off without getting sent to prison or executed.

Maybe its even therapeutic in some way to kill in game. Do you feel better after murdering in game all evening? Has your rage decreased? Lets hope so.

P.S. From your writing skills I think I can assure you that my education level is well above yours.