Realistic weapon progression/spawn locations regarding the disaster

[chickenmcfuggits 49]

I wrote this in another thread and I thought maybe it deserved its own topic to talk about if anyone else is interested. Of course the game is alpha and everything is subject to change, which is all the more reason to talk about it.

 

 

While melee does need some work, I don't think making firearms rare would be any kind of a solution. I have a feeling that in the context of DayZ this would mean 50% of the server pop running along the coast looking to hit someone with a splitting axe until they got bored and just quit playing. You shouldn't get a gun when you walk into any old house, but it should be reasonable enough that once you take care of the basics and head to the right places nearby you would have a good chance of arming yourself, even if its one of the lesser effective firearms in the game. Obviously, higher forms of badassery (incl melee) should be harder to acquire, with exceptions being places where these things rightfully belong, such as military bases.

 

Speaking of power progression and military bases, it would be interesting to see when they add more military weapons/vehicles to the game if they might add areas inside civilian areas where, say... battles were previously fought against the zombie uprising and there are combat vehicles and weapon spawns, as well as destroyed military equipment strewn about with the possibility of there being some, or none at all, working weapons/vehicles. If we think about what happened just as society collapsed in Chernarus and all the battles being fought, military tech would be spread around the country not only at military bases, but at chokepoints and civilian centers as well. I could imagine the stary/novy area might be one such chokepoint with its wide open and distant view as well as a sort of center for the civilian population, given the apocalypse was an infection you could also expect significant military presence near every major and even minor hospital, not only to handle zeds but for keeping an ever growing frantic civilian population at bay as well. Every major city and port could be expected to have some sort of military presence, even if its just remnants of a mobile unit; perhaps some of these would be NATO units called in to help as the disaster progressed, with the possibility of NATO loot spawning that currently only spawns on heli crashes, I mean if they are bringing in helicopters and armed teams they should have a base of ops at least somewhere in the country right? Currently the vast majority of high tier military equipment and presence seems to be at the military installations, as if the Chernarun government just didn't give a shit about anything when the zombies were rolling through their cities.

 

They could even use highly contested areas like elektro and throw in some battered military equipment there from a battle lost to the zeds to spur on players to fight for these areas even more, or try to spread the points of interest out a little more to naturally spread out players and make a small amount of higher tier gear availible to players who go to these areas.

 

Sorry I got a little off topic, but my brain started spontaneously working.

 

So mainly what the title is referring to is the second paragraph, the fact that there doesn't seem to be much of a military presence, or any loot spawns, in any areas of Chernarus where the military might want to defend. Realistically, there would be some military presence in high population, hospital, port or other areas of interest and given the fact that zeds are really only after a beating heart or brain, there could potentially be some working military equipment left over even if we're talking some time after the zombie uprising.

 

Devs could also use this to sort of 'balance the map' and spread out areas of interest so small areas (Elektro, for example) don't get bogged down with most of the players on a server. By no means am I saying you should be able to kill yourself over and over until you spawn on top of a tank or AKM, but in some cities it sort of looks like a ghost town, like everyone just *poof* disappeared and these areas weren't contested at all, perhaps this would be true for some small farmer john towns, but not every civilian area that doesn't have a military base. So there is a sort of dual purpose to what I'm saying, for both immersion and for balance purposes. As said in the quote, this could be a venue to add more spawn points for NATO equipment from their mobile units and operating points, instead of relying solely on helicopter crash sites.

 

Just writing my thoughts down incase anyone feels the same or wants to discuss.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Chzy

[ToySmokes 116]

I think your right about this. As it is now, as you said, mostly all the smaller towns look like no one lived there. And no one cared when the infected tried to kill everyone. The map needs some temporary bases of operation a bit of everywhere. But they don't have to spawn loot all the time. Also this would be a nice place to put in a lot of corpses for immersion. Dead bodies that can have loot on them. Maybe a can of tactical bacon, or a canteen. And maybe this could be randomly placed every server restart or on different servers. Because as it is now, if you've played the game for a decent amount of time. Then you know where the military loot spawns and then of corse how to get there. If these places was randomly placed. No one would know exactly where they are all the time.

[chickenmcfuggits 49]

If you go to the izurvive map and filter all of the loot indicators except "Various Military" (These are the military tent loot spawns) at the bottom, you can see they are all pretty much in one place with exception to a few here and there. DayZRP lore is pretty interesting because according to it the zombie infection actually started in Myshkino and that tent base was erected as either a cause or an effect of the zombie plague, though it doesn't specific which I don't think. Regardless of where it started, I can imagine temporary bases, fortifications and tent cities being erected as the zombies spread throughout Chernarus overtaking the defenses there and forcing the military to move back to a new defensive position. As the war raged on and areas were lost some equipment and temporary bases would be left behind to be discovered by players after Chernarus was lost and the game as we know it begins.

 

While actual military bases should of course have the lions share of military grade gear, it seems like it would spice up the game some to have sparse leftover military gear spread out in some of these places with maybe some small military tent areas area and some destroyed or functional military vehicles (when they add them). I've seen a bunch of threads on here and reddit about players complaining about the lack of AKM/SKS ammo almost everywhere but these tents, so they could be a valuable stash of certain weapon/ammo/gear types that aren't availible anywhere else, especially NATO gear in places where temporary nato bases might be. I could see NATO forces coming from a carrier somewhere in the black sea and setting up operating points around major ports or coastal airfields. You could also expect lots of badly damaged gear considering it was the scene of a battle against the zeds, maybe even some defensive or explosive equipment like mines and grenades that were used for the battle.

 

Dead bodies and walking up onto the scene of a massacre would be cool, but I think I read somewhere that the devs didn't want to spawn already dead bodies for performance reasons. However, since these areas would contain valuable loot and were the scene of a battle its stands to reason that they would be occupied by a relatively large number of zeds then say a little town like Mcta or somewhere. Having a horde of zeds around the area would help offset the ability of the players to just stroll up and be well geared right off the bat without flying in the face of realism, and after players drop all the zeds it would look like a battlefield anyways.

 

I like the idea of small temp bases being random too, seems like that would add a lot to "replayability", if thats the right word for this game. Maybe the temporary NATO bases could even be randomly spawned if they wanted to stick with the randomness of finding NATO gear like it is with heli crashes. Yet another idea for including more NATO loot spawns into the map could be docked NATO warships or relief ships of some kind to show that the world was desperately trying to stop the zombie plague from spreading, maybe some of them could even be keeled over or even fully capsized making it somewhat dangerous, or even impossible, for players to enter all the way into the ship. I don't know if that would be too much to ask from the graphics devs or not though.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Chzy

[Etherious 907]

I guess I wouldn't mind FOBs, however I would not want military vehicles in DayZ (ex. APCs, Tanks, Armed Helis). 

[Killawife 599]

Military bases and outposts and large citys should be overrun with zombies. Hundreds of them, making it a challenge to go there. As it is now theres barely more zeds in Elektro than i Msta. Can't render that many objects? Here's an idea, remove a thousand or so books thats just laying around everywhere.

[Dagwood 680]

Military bases should have the best military loot. Period. But, they should also be death traps. The wrecked military vehicles we have now are a good way of distributing lower tier military gear around the map without making the military bases unnecessary.

[Pyongo Bongo 235]

I wish guns (especially in millitary bases) were locked away in some kind of armory or gunlocker, not just lying on the floor ;(, imagin a millitary base where the door is made of thick steel with 30 guns and ammo in it that you had to break open and stuff (and they would never respwn on private servers atleast, or would they? i dont know something needs to change please thanks Dean Hall)

[gibonez 3633]

Military bases should have the best military loot. Period. But, they should also be death traps. The wrecked military vehicles we have now are a good way of distributing lower tier military gear around the map without making the military bases unnecessary.

 

Agreed.

 

However there should only be 1 military base.

 

There are far too many military loot locations in the map and that alone lowers its value. Only the North West airfield should be the only static military loot location all other military loot should be dynamic.

[Dagwood 680]

Agreed.

However there should only be 1 military base.

There are far too many military loot locations in the map and that alone lowers its value. Only the North West airfield should be the only static military loot location all other military loot should be dynamic.

In the mod, this was essentially the situation. Two barracks on the whole map, a scattering of military tents, and the fire stations. This worked when there were over 50 players on the map in some cases.

But what happens when you hit the only military base on the map and you don't find the item you are looking for and persistence is enabled? In the mod, players "loot cycled" (forced loot to respawn by meta gaming the loot mechanics). With the new persistence mechanic, this kind of meta gaming will not be possible (hopefully).

This new dynamic will hopefully incentivize groups to then travel to different military bases in the hope of finding suitable gear. With the current spawn rates, I agree, the number of military bases is having a negative effect on gameplay. But, if and when spawn rates are cut back, numerous military bases will be necessary and will affect gameplay in a positive way. The inclusion of more numerous and dangerous infected will also (hopefully) evolve looting beyond the military shopping sprees we engage in currently.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Agreed.

 

However there should only be 1 military base.

 

There are far too many military loot locations in the map and that alone lowers its value. Only the North West airfield should be the only static military loot location all other military loot should be dynamic.

 

But that doesn't make much sense when you take in the context of the lore.

 

Chernarus= Highly militarized country. Formerly Soviet. Home to a very large parachute training base converted into a conventional airfield. Three separate wars with multiple guerilla and insurgent factions, also bordering two large and militarized countries. Strategic ally of the United States.

 

We don't need to start ripping out the bases we have.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Personally, I don't understand the argument of not wanting military vehicles in the game.

 

You can't argue for "REALISM" and then turn around and say "well...but not military vehicles, because I don't want them and they would unbalance gameplay blah blah" I mean I personally find it hilarious that this game has ZERO vehicles near driveable condition. (yes I am aware vehicles aren't really very far in development) It's like "OH LOOK! The apocalypse. All cars are now rusty, missing tires, and look like they have been fire bombed"

 

Screw it. I'm all for adding some light armored vehicles into the game and making their parts incredibly difficult to come by. 

 

I really don't get what the push-back against military vehicles is all about.

[gibonez 3633]

But that doesn't make much sense when you take in the context of the lore.

 

Chernarus= Highly militarized country. Formerly Soviet. Home to a very large parachute training base converted into a conventional airfield. Three separate wars with multiple guerilla and insurgent factions, also bordering two large and militarized countries. Strategic ally of the United States.

 

We don't need to start ripping out the bases we have.

 

We do there is far too many at the moment.

 

Even with Balota gone there is what ? 5 or 6 major military loot locations ? not including the dynamic military loot such as crashes and wrecks.

 

1 static military base and 1 minor military camp is all that is needed. Combine that with the dynamics and you have a good amount of military loot without being overzealous like the game is now with the huge amount of military loot locations.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

We do there is far too many at the moment.

 

Even with Balota gone there is what ? 5 or 6 major military loot locations ? not including the dynamic military loot such as crashes and wrecks.

 

1 static military base and 1 minor military camp is all that is needed. Combine that with the dynamics and you have a good amount of military loot without being overzealous like the game is now with the huge amount of military loot locations.

 

The number of milspawn locations isn't really the issue I think. I think it's just because the zeds are a non-factor at the moment.

[Dagwood 680]

The number of milspawn locations isn't really the issue I think. I think it's just because the zeds are a non-factor at the moment.

And spawn rates at these locations are too high. At least with how easy it is to access these locations currently. I guess when it's a real chore to get into one, it would feel pretty shitty not to find anything. Finding at least a makarov or an sks wouldn't be too shabby either; given that guns are as hard to come by as Some believe they will in the future.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

The number of milspawn locations isn't really the issue I think. I think it's just because the zeds are a non-factor at the moment.

 

I think that a major rehaul of the zombies and an increase to their lethality would do far more than just plucking out all the military weapons at whim.

[gibonez 3633]

I think that a major rehaul of the zombies and an increase to their lethality would do far more than just plucking out all the military weapons at whim.

 

Has nothing to do with military weapons but the sheer amount of locations that they current spawn in.

 

Due to there being so many military loot locations there is nothing special or rare about mil gear.

[PFC 5]

I wish guns (especially in millitary bases) were locked away in some kind of armory or gunlocker, not just lying on the floor ;(, imagin a millitary base where the door is made of thick steel with 30 guns and ammo in it that you had to break open and stuff (and they would never respwn on private servers atleast, or would they? i dont know something needs to change please thanks Dean Hall)

You're not breaking through a class 3 armory door. The only way you're getting through such a door is if you're the company armorer and know the lock code. Now lets say you did somehow manage to bust your way in, all you'd find is a crap ton of weapons. The ammo is stored elsewhere.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Has nothing to do with military weapons but the sheer amount of locations that they current spawn in.

 

Due to there being so many military loot locations there is nothing special or rare about mil gear.

 

Okay Gibz that's cool and all, but here's our point...

 

The problem is not inherently with the number of milspawn locations. It's the fact they're so easy to get to. I'm sure by the end of the development military bases will be incredibly difficult to loot due to the fact the zombies will be crawling all over them, as well as players sneaking through to loot. 

 

I mean would YOU run in guns blazing and try to take out all the zombies knowing there might be somewhere there watching and waiting for you to be preoccupied with killing hordes of zeds, while they move in for the kill and take your gear after doing their job for them?

 

Bottom line, it's not the number of military spawns. Military gear is just readily available because they're easy to get to atm.

 

Not to mention how much harder it will be to move through large towns, so the Elektro, Cherno, Balota, Zeleno, GM, etc. route will probably take 5x as long.

 

Besides, military gear is always going to be the norm for the most part. It's the best gear in the game, so the majority of players are going to go for it.

Edited January 25, 2015 by DeatHTaX