Insanity from the player

[ToySmokes 116]

So this is an idea that will force people to either talk to them selves or others. The idea is pretty much like this:

As you probably know we humans have to socialize with each other to stay healthy mentally. At least most of us have to, otherwise you can start talking to yourself ect. Now some of you probably think that I want to make so that if you don't talk to people, you character starts talking to itself. No. That's not what I'm going for.

Because you have to keep a good "socialize" you have to, as I said, talk to others OR youself. So if you haven't talked to anyone for a while, a new status indicator shows up. And on that it could stand something like "Socializing". To keep this status on a good level, you will have to talk. Once again, either with someone else, or with youself. If you don't do this in a long time, your character will starting to become insain and you will loose control over it more and more. No random sounds from it, only maybe so it stops on random places and put it hands over its face or just sits down or whatever (ofcorse not in a intense situation). And you couldn't just press the "talk button" and don't ay anything to make it go away. You would actually have to talk. I don't know if that works or if you can even have that kind of sensor so that the game knows when your actually talking. But if it could work. Then this would be a cool feature.

Imagine youself walking down a road in the dark somewhere near Chero. When you walk by a house you can hear someone whispering to him/her self. Saying just random stuff. What would you do? Try to make contact, kill him/her, or just run away to stay away from that psychotic person.

[Rags! 1966]

No. Don't shoehorn in game mechanics that force me to be nice when I don't want to be nice. 

[Destructo_Brat 45]

No. Don't shoehorn in game mechanics that force me to be nice when I don't want to be nice. 

 

God forbid you might EVER actually HAVE to interact.... NOOOOOOOO  the horror of it all.

[Rags! 1966]

God forbid you might EVER actually HAVE to interact.... NOOOOOOOO  the horror of it all.

 

If I want to interact with other players, then I'll choose to do that. I do not want nor need Bohemia Interactive's coercion into playing a role I do not wish to play. 

[Destructo_Brat 45]

If I want to interact with other players, then I'll choose to do that. I do not want nor need Bohemia Interactive's coercion into playing a role I do not wish to play. 

 

I never said nor intimated you HAD to.  I just felt you shudder when faced with the possibility you might NEED to.

[Rags! 1966]

I never said nor intimated you HAD to.  I just felt you shudder when faced with the possibility you might NEED to.

 

If you're implying that I don't want players to interact with each other, then that would be contrary to the last four months where I have been a strong advocate of encouraging players to cooperate and converse instead of shooting anything that moves.  

 

I don't like it when players kill each other on sight, no questions asked. But if they want to play that way...so be it. Don't add in these silly bullshit "insanity/morality" systems attempting to put actual numerical values to emotional and mental health statuses based on impossible to track player intention to force people to play in ways they don't want to. 

 

It's better to let you be free to do evil instead of forcing you to do good. 

[ToySmokes 116]

If I want to interact with other players, then I'll choose to do that. I do not want nor need Bohemia Interactive's coercion into playing a role I do not wish to play.

Well the idea is that you don't acctually HAVE to talk to others. It work even if you just talk to yourself. So you can be a lone wolf all the way and don't interact with enyone. You can still keep the "insanity" level or whatever on a good level without worrying about you character going mad.

[Rags! 1966]

 It work even if you just talk to yourself. 

 

[DayZoey 110]

It's not terrible but I don't see it lasting very long on this forum. I was making suggestions for sanity based mechanics in the game almost five years ago now when the game was still in mod format and the promise of standalone was a distant dream in the future, the community is still as ravenously dedicated to their deathmatch/military classism sim as they were then. Needless to say, the idea was shot down because heaven forbid there be consequences for gunning down every random schmuck you came across. :\

 

Notice how your idea doesn't even come close to the consequences I'm talking about and there's already a screaming naysayer? He's worried that he'd have to change anything about what he does in the game to actually get away from what he does (five bucks says he dashes to the nearest weapon spawn, grabs something and murders every bambi he comes across)

 

Though the whole "talking to yourself" bit is a bit of a stretch, I can't say I support it fully myself. The idea is solid but implementation is... not realistic. How would we talk to ourselves? Just walking along and mouse wheel down to "Initiate Conversation". Seems very mechanical and not very organic to me, after awhile conversing with yourself or your friends would become a chore rather than something that influences gameplay.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

It's not terrible but I don't see it lasting very long on this forum. I was making suggestions for sanity based mechanics in the game almost five years ago now when the game was still in mod format and the promise of standalone was a distant dream in the future, the community is still as ravenously dedicated to their deathmatch/military classism sim as they were then. Needless to say, the idea was shot down because heaven forbid there be consequences for gunning down every random schmuck you came across. :\

 

Notice how your idea doesn't even come close to the consequences I'm talking about and there's already a screaming naysayer? He's worried that he'd have to change anything about what he does in the game to actually get away from what he does (five bucks says he dashes to the nearest weapon spawn, grabs something and murders every bambi he comes across)

 

Though the whole "talking to yourself" bit is a bit of a stretch, I can't say I support it fully myself. The idea is solid but implementation is... not realistic. How would we talk to ourselves? Just walking along and mouse wheel down to "Initiate Conversation". Seems very mechanical and not very organic to me, after awhile conversing with yourself or your friends would become a chore rather than something that influences gameplay.

 

God forbid someone disagree with an idea... or they're a "screaming naysayer."

 

There's a staggering difference between having consequences and/or benefits to particular playstyles and putting in arbitrary and not necessarily realistic game mechanics solely designed to limit a particular playstyle.

 

Insanity and morality as in-game mechanics simply would not work well given that they're far too arbitrary and subjective to say that they would inherently apply to all players who commit a certain action the same way. Yes, there are those who don't like the idea of morality simply because they want to kill everyone, but there are also those who find that there are actual problems with some form of sanity based system.

 

How is the game going to judge such a mechanic - some system like; "someone goes insane if they kill X numbers of players?" Then how does the game know that they weren't justified? It can't. There's simply no good way to make such a system work well that would realistically apply to all players and still be valid in the situations it does apply, because there are too many variables for it to work.

 

Same reason why I disagree with this - not everyone goes insane from not talking to people, and on the contrary talking to yourself doesn't always mitigate insanity either - it goes every direction for different people.

 

 

Rather than trying to put faux consequences on loner playstyles we should be making more advantages to participating in group play.

[Draco122 412]

I would imagine at a much later date, one would be inclined to find an animal companion to at least interact and talk to. It might not be a human but there have been records of hermits and loners keeping animals as company to at least interact and talk to, at least to maintain their sanity.

[DayZoey 110]

God forbid someone disagree with an idea... or they're a "screaming naysayer."

 

No. Don't shoehorn in game mechanics that force me to be nice when I don't want to be nice. 

There's disagreement and then there's arbitrary shooting an idea down without any regard to it's merit, I never said people can't disagree. The above isn't a disagreement, it's a "your idea is stupid and you're stupid for thinking it's good". This sort of post is nothing but rancor as it offers no explanation beyond "I don't like this F*** off".

 

God forbid someone disagree with an idea...

God forbid you read the entirety of my post where I don't fully agree with the idea myself, I'm just not being a douche about my opinion on the idea.

[Rags! 1966]

 

God forbid you read the entirety of my post where I don't fully agree with the idea myself, I'm just not being a douche about my opinion on the idea.

 

What people think about me is no concern of mine. But if you want to start pulling out insults in what used to be a rather civil discussion only goes to show that you have absolutely no ammunition left to use on your behalf. I have confidence in my opinion because my opinion is correct, and yours is wrong. We aren't debating ballistic damage mitigation due to clothing, we aren't discussing zombie behavior or density, we aren't talking about rarity of loot. 

 

We are talking about having my character get hit with an arbitrary -1 statistic because I killed somebody either in defense, for survival, of just because I wanted to have a giggle. Statistics aren't God or Allah. It can't differentiate between either of these. It certainly can't read my mind and ascertain my intentions, because even the most fresh of moral scholars knows that intention is of paramount importance in moral choices. 

 

DayZ can't stop zombies from walking through walls. It certainly can't apply numerical values to complex scenarios involving survival and death with any amount of even a hope of accuracy.

 

There will be no morality system. It is a stupid idea. It always has been. Morality is far far far too complex and subjective to add in your silly little numerical value system that negatively effects killing in a horrible blanket solution that will destroy the foundation of player freedom. So keep fighting your good fight for another five years and see where it gets you.   

 

I said it before, but clearly you missed it, so I'll say it again and I'll hope it sinks in:

 

It's better to let you be free to do evil instead of forcing you to do good.

[ToySmokes 116]

What people think about me is no concern of mine. But if you want to start pulling out insults in what used to be a rather civil discussion only goes to show that you have absolutely no ammunition left to use on your behalf. I have confidence in my opinion because my opinion is correct, and yours is wrong. We aren't debating ballistic damage mitigation due to clothing, we aren't discussing zombie behavior or density, we aren't talking about rarity of loot. 

 

We are talking about having my character get hit with an arbitrary -1 statistic because I killed somebody either in defense, for survival, of just because I wanted to have a giggle. Statistics aren't God or Allah. It can't differentiate between either of these. It certainly can't read my mind and ascertain my intentions, because even the most fresh of moral scholars knows that intention is of paramount importance in moral choices. 

 

DayZ can't stop zombies from walking through walls. It certainly can't apply numerical values to complex scenarios involving survival and death with any amount of even a hope of accuracy.

 

There will be no morality system. It is a stupid idea. It always has been. Morality is far far far too complex and subjective to add in your silly little numerical value system that negatively effects killing in a horrible blanket solution that will destroy the foundation of player freedom. So keep fighting your good fight for another five years and see where it gets you.   

 

I said it before, but clearly you missed it, so I'll say it again and I'll hope it sinks in:

 

It's better to let you be free to do evil instead of forcing you to do good.

I don't know where you got all that talk about that I want to punish people becaus they shoot someone. That was not even the suddgestion and I'm also against punishing people for shooting others btw so where in the same boat on that one. This doens't even force anyone to do anything more than just push "Caps" and speak. As I said. It doesn't have to be with another player. You can just talk to the air or to a house or just nothing. It still works. I respect that you don't like the idea. But I feel like you didn't really got what I was saying. And the idea is that it will sound crazy. One thing that I forgot to mention is that in my opinion it should take a very long time for the character to acctually becoming even a little crazy. Maybe a good 7 hours of playing with the same character. So some people would probably not even experians this "morality" thing. Thank you for giving your opinion :)

[Rags! 1966]

 This doens't even force anyone to do anything more than just push "Caps" and speak. As I said. It doesn't have to be with another player. You can just talk to the air or to a house or just nothing. It still works. I respect that you don't like the idea. But I feel like you didn't really got what I was saying. And the idea is that it will sound crazy. 

 

No, I understand you perfectly. 

 

You want to add a mechanic that forces players to talk to themselves so they don't go bonkers. 

[pale1776 375]

What if there wqs a world in DayZ after death... its a massive underground cave with fire and brimstone, and a massive, evil laugh and the screams of the dead...one where the only way out is to slaughter 100 players/NPCs... that way the KoSers get their fill and the Heroes will spend several years.

All in all, add DayZ Hell. 10/10 woild palay agin

[sachad 1016]

What if there wqs a world in DayZ after death... its a massive underground cave with fire and brimstone, and a massive, evil laugh and the screams of the dead...one where the only way out is to slaughter 100 players/NPCs... that way the KoSers get their fill and the Heroes will spend several years.

All in all, add DayZ Hell. 10/10 woild palay agin

There is a DayZ Hell. It's called Experimental.

[Karmaterror 982]

No, I understand you perfectly. 

 

You want to add a mechanic that forces players to talk to themselves so they don't go bonkers. 

 

Then why say...

 

 

No. Don't shoehorn in game mechanics that force me to be nice when I don't want to be nice. 

 

You only have to talk to yourself.....you don't have to be nice....you can sit there and call yourself a twat for 5 mins if you want ;)

 

I actually like this idea, but not so much the talking to yourself part. That part seems like it would just feed any pshycological problem that's going on. Animals however...animals can be very therapeutic, provide companionship and are great listeners.  So for people that don't speak to players they could find an animal and get close then speak...that could sort the status out.

 

Obviously companion animals would be better for this but maybe wild ones aswell. If there was a zone around the animal a little greater than the "scare them off" zone. Just sitting in that and taking could do the trick :)

Edited December 22, 2014 by Karmaterror

[aseliot 23]

I think the best solution for this would actually be to have something like appareantly CONTROVERSIAL like PTSD-like symptoms. We could simply call it paranoia or something like that to prevent insulting people.

 

Think about it, even hardened soldiers can suffer from this condition.

 

The effect in the game should be very mild though but lets just assume you go on a killing spree and kill 8 people in a row every day then it will become very annoying to deal with.

 

Ways it could be simulated in the game, then will not be overly dramatic:

 

- Loud hearbeat drowning out other sounds, like a shellshock dampening effect.

- Gunshots and footsteps etc. infrequently sound louder than normal

- Gunshots can make the edges of the screen have a black fade thingy that gives you a little tunnel vision

- Uncontrollable shaking while aiming with a gun

- Screen may blur when you are supressed

 

Alot of people can go around here saying, but nooo i want to be a psycopath maniac who kills 20 people on a daily basis and cannibalize them without any effects to my sanity at all because that is authentic as I would also be able to do this in reality. Well no, not really.

 

Some other effects not related to ptsd but just general paranoia would be:

 

- Seeing phantom players/animals/cars/helicopters in the distance

- Hearing phantom helicopter/car/zombie/gunshot sounds 

 

Now before you start saying that things like blurry screens are not realistic, how else do you want to represent these things in a game where you can only make us of imagery or sound. This is just pretty much the only way to simulate paranoia/disorientation.

 

All of these things i listed above would not have to happen every few minutes but maybe just a chance of happening every half hour or so.

 

And there is also offcourse the chance that you kill 8 people in a row and don't get any side effects at all if every kill would yield a certain percentage of adding insanity/paranoia.

[Mater (DayZ) 1]

I think the best solution for this would actually be to have something like appareantly CONTROVERSIAL like PTSD-like symptoms. We could simply call it paranoia or something like that to prevent insulting people.

 

Think about it, even hardened soldiers can suffer from this condition.

 

The effect in the game should be very mild though but lets just assume you go on a killing spree and kill 8 people in a row every day then it will become very annoying to deal with.

 

Ways it could be simulated in the game, then will not be overly dramatic:

 

- Loud hearbeat drowning out other sounds, like a shellshock dampening effect.

- Gunshots and footsteps etc. infrequently sound louder than normal

- Gunshots can make the edges of the screen have a black fade thingy that gives you a little tunnel vision

- Uncontrollable shaking while aiming with a gun

- Screen may blur when you are supressed

 

Alot of people can go around here saying, but nooo i want to be a psycopath maniac who kills 20 people on a daily basis and cannibalize them without any effects to my sanity at all because that is authentic as I would also be able to do this in reality. Well no, not really.

 

Some other effects not related to ptsd but just general paranoia would be:

 

- Seeing phantom players/animals/cars/helicopters in the distance

- Hearing phantom helicopter/car/zombie/gunshot sounds 

 

Now before you start saying that things like blurry screens are not realistic, how else do you want to represent these things in a game where you can only make us of imagery or sound. This is just pretty much the only way to simulate paranoia/disorientation.

 

All of these things i listed above would not have to happen every few minutes but maybe just a chance of happening every half hour or so.

 

And there is also offcourse the chance that you kill 8 people in a row and don't get any side effects at all if every kill would yield a certain percentage of adding insanity/paranoia.

 

I kinda like the OP idea and the quoted one but also have some doubts about it. First of all,if you want to consider this idea,Mental Health should get in to the game. As physical health is already an important part of our survival in DayZ, our mental state should be as well. I know this would make the game more complicated,but also more interesting. 

 

Trauma factor: You wake up in the middle of nowhere,with nothing but a few clothes. You realize,that everything you had is lost. Your family,your loved ones,your life and your belongings,even your dreams are gone. You are alone (in the beginning) and the only thing you have is your instinct to survive. Such a trauma is surely huge enough for a man/woman to handle. Thats our starting point in the case of Mental Health. Let's be honest, if we want to stay on the ground of realism, any other trauma after this could and would increase the chance of getting ill.

 

Karma: So if you start killing other players just for fun,you are surely going to be a sociopath and eventually loose your mind (= be insane). This state should have its own symptoms,such as the laughing,crying,shaking effects of cannibalism. Ok,if we split the mental health meter to let's say 7 segments,now we have the starting state [zero] and the insane state [-3]. If you start to collect things after spawn,go out looting,hunting,exploring your surroundings, you start to feel ok. [+1] You interact with people,make some friends,do some group playing [not banditing] you get more and more comfortable with your new life. [+2] If you play a "good guy" -i know these two words would lead to another conflict,but let's name them heroes,or whatever- you start to feel somewhat well, or useful. [+3] On the other hand,if you start to hit others with your sledgehammer 5 mins after you spawned and even kill somebody for no reason,you feel bad. [-1] After multiple occasions you behave like this, you will get evil. [-2] Now we have 7 states,each has different side-effects,if has any at all. In my opinion only (-3) should have a permanent one. The other's side-effects should last only for hours.

There have been doubts about the way these mental states could be analysed. I think the statistic and achievement system should be enough to work this out. As devs are already planning to bring in some achievement-system, therefor the background of statistic-system is already on its way. These statistics surely will include the "who shot who" facts and let's assume they gonna be well worked out and detailed. As a point-based system,Mental Health states could work as Physical Health works now. With different actions,you get or loose points. The most important part would be killing of course. So a player dies. We should know who shot him and how. Both parameters could be featured as statistics. [assuming server-based calculations] Let's see a 1v1 situation. How long have been the players be on the same server,has been any shots between each other? From this,we could know who shot first. If the first person shooting dies,we can assume it was self-defense on the other players perspective. And so on... As group-mechanics will also get in to the game later,this feature could work. It has a lot to do with,but may worth it. 

 

There are some serious problems with that of course. What if you were just shooting a zombie, and a guy jumped out of the house near you and hit you with his axe. How would the system know,who did right or who did wrong. This is not an easy task,but everything is possible,so if there were some brainstorming on the matter,these problems could get worked out.

 

Some would say,that mental health is different at each person and shouldn't be handled as everyone has the same level on that. But hey,every player has the same physical attributes [even female characters], so why would mental attributes be so different?

 

These are my first ideas on the matter. If devs give a go on the suggestion of mental health,more ideas are the better.

[wisper 61]

The original suggestion is good, kudos :-) Talking to oneself might be a bit too much but antidepresants (and their side effects) are not... As for those who don't like the restraints of such a mechanic, it is far more realistic then a camper who sits comfortable eating while his/her character is in stalking mode in game. (Famous snipers could stay in 1 position for a long time but this extraordinary stoicism turn them into legends and that is what your average patato couch is not.) In real life, being alone for a long time is not only unbearable emotionaly, but can affect u also physicaly, so it does make a good/realistic insentive to socialize in game.