survivor visual changes and an extra animation and trade

[papajo 13]

Well while I broke my personal surviving record I had that idea and thought mentioning it here but I forgot to do so luckily (at least for me :P ) I remembered :D here it is:

What about showing visual changes the more time you are alive in this game (logged off doesnt count) like growing being unshaved later on growing a beard etc also your body skin become more dirty.

Also what about adding a military salute as a F key animation (you know that thingy when you raise your hand on your head in the army etc)

last but not lease give us a trade dialog so you can exchange stuff even with people you dont fully trust or know because dropping things is not that secure one might drop what he promised for the deal the other one could just pick that up and leave... (or atleast try to before getting killed by the other guy)

Ok I know thats is questionable since even having a trade dialog anybody could kill anybody after it and taking back the stuff he/she traded but besides that its useful because it makes life easier if you know you have to deal with friendlies people your trust etc.. and its also a frist step to gain trust with a stranger .. like the native americans did... oh well that was not a good example :P 

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

Alrighty, as for the whole beard system goes, love it, it'd show the "Vets" from the "Newbs" but you should have the option to shave it, and to turn the system off completely imo. Also, how would this work with female models?

 

As for the dirtying system, I'm all for it too, as long as done properly. You should be able to clean yourself off, and you shouldn't be drenched in mud from walking 3 miles. It would have to take time, and you should be able to splash some water on yourself (Be it from a pond, bottle, well, etc.) without "Soaking" yourself and freezing your arse off.

 

Finally, for the trading system, absolutely not. Nothing should be "secure". You have to take a risk when trading something with someone in reality, why not in a game. Just drop your items at your feet, and circle around and grab them. If you don't trust the trade, don't do it. If they try robbing you (And succeed, bad on you) then just deal with the pest.

 

Keep in mind these are my opinions, no need to get that aggro on me ;)

[papajo 13]

Alrighty, as for the whole beard system goes, love it, it'd show the "Vets" from the "Newbs" but you should have the option to shave it, and to turn the system off completely imo. Also, how would this work with female models?

 

As for the dirtying system, I'm all for it too, as long as done properly. You should be able to clean yourself off, and you shouldn't be drenched in mud from walking 3 miles. It would have to take time, and you should be able to splash some water on yourself (Be it from a pond, bottle, well, etc.) without "Soaking" yourself and freezing your arse off.

 

Finally, for the trading system, absolutely not. Nothing should be "secure". You have to take a risk when trading something with someone in reality, why not in a game. Just drop your items at your feet, and circle around and grab them. If you don't trust the trade, don't do it. If they try robbing you (And succeed, bad on you) then just deal with the pest.

 

Keep in mind these are my opinions, no need to get that aggro on me ;)

Women could grow mustaches they do it in real life too :P ok women just can go dirty :P besides who makes a woman char with the ideals of becoming a vet? :P mostly they do it for fun or if they are women themselves.. and which woman has men ideals of veterancy  showing badassidy and leanmean killing machinacity? so yea :P

As for the trading system I disagree because real life and pc simulation cant be 100% accurate so if you want something to be more close to real life you have to do it in a superficial way thats not real (like a trading window) in order to have a real life effect.

Because in real life you dont throw your stuff at a stranger wait for him to take it and then to throw some stuff at you... there are ways to simultaneously pass your goods hand to hand or give it in a way that he couldnt certainly steal it from you without you being able to grab it back or grab him to take it back.. but you cant possible simulate those things on the game.. so you need a trade window to compensate for that. 

Edited December 2, 2014 by papajo

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

Women could grow mustaches they do it in real life too :P ok women just can go dirty :P besides who makes a woman char with the ideals of becoming a vet? :P mostly they do it for fun or if they are women themselves.. and which woman has men ideals of veterancy  showing badassidy and leanmean killing machinacity? so yea :P

As for the trading system I disagree because real life and pc simulation cant be 100% accurate so if you want something to be more close to real life you have to do it in a superficial way thats not real (like a trading window) in order to have a real life effect.

Because in real life you dont throw your stuff at a stranger wait for him to take it and then to throw some stuff at you... there are ways to simultaneously pass your goods hand to hand or give it in a way that he couldnt certainly steal it from you without you being able to grab it back or grab him to take it back.. but you cant possible simulate those things on the game.. so you need a trade window to compensate for that. 

Fair points on the trading (Which is all that I'll be discussing since we've reached a common ground on the whole beard thing) however, in real life we don't have "Trade Windows" either, kind of making your argument cave in on itself. The main reason I'd like to stick with the "Drop and cycle" type of trading instead of a preset trade window is solely due to the risk. With a trade window, it's a surefire trade (Not necessarily meaning you'll survive, just that the trade will without a doubt go through properly) which doesn't make much sense when in reality you could easily rob someone in a trade (An example being grabbing the item from their hand and running), which is best simulated through the traditional route of trading (imo). Counterargument?

[papajo 13]

Fair points on the trading (Which is all that I'll be discussing since we've reached a common ground on the whole beard thing) however, in real life we don't have "Trade Windows" either, kind of making your argument cave in on itself. The main reason I'd like to stick with the "Drop and cycle" type of trading instead of a preset trade window is solely due to the risk. With a trade window, it's a surefire trade (Not necessarily meaning you'll survive, just that the trade will without a doubt go through properly) which doesn't make much sense when in reality you could easily rob someone in a trade (An example being grabbing the item from their hand and running), which is best simulated through the traditional route of trading (imo). Counterargument?

Counter argument is the same argument as in my previous post. you cant simulate real a life situation in a program exactly as it is in real life so you have to make a superficial dialog or script that doesnt exist in real life obviously but grands the same effect of real life.

because as I said I could trade a pistol for a vest lets say I have the pistol on my right hand you have the vest on your left and we exchange that simultaneously... that cant be programmed in a game exactly as it happens in real life (because there are many factors involved like peoples instincts and reflexes etc ) and if you do it then again it will be resource consuming bringing high loads to the server and the client which means terrible lagg... thus the solution of a superficial fix like a trade window .

If you run away I can shoot and kill you, if you trade using the window I again can shoot and kill you... so freedom of choice isnt harmed by this implementation it just makes life easier for friendlies. 

Edited December 2, 2014 by papajo

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

Counter argument is the same argument as in my previous post. you cant simulate real a life situation in a program exactly as it is in real life so you have to make a superficial dialog or script that doesnt exist in real life obviously but grands the same effect of real life.

because as I said I could trade a pistol for a vest lets say I have the pistol on my right hand you have the vest on your left and we exchange that simultaneously... that cant be programmed in a game exactly as it happens in real life (because there are many factors involved like peoples instincts and reflexes etc ) and if you do it then again it will be resource consuming bringing high loads to the server and the client which means terrible lagg... thus the solution of a superficial fix like a trade window .

If you run away I can shoot and kill you, if you trade using the window I again can shoot and kill you... so freedom of choice isnt harmed by this implementation it just makes life easier for friendlies. 

xD I guess I'll bring up my argument again then. I'm not saying that the window is a generally bad idea, it just wouldn't fit, being that their isn't enough risk in it. In reality, the hand swap technique usually works fine, however sometimes when doing this, someone could easily quickly nab the thing your holding, and after taking it, book it. Yes, you could shoot at them typically, however they just robbed you, and you wouldn't want to ruin what they took, so either take the risk or don't. In game however, without the hand swap, you just do the drop and cycle technique, and again with this technique you have that inherited risk of getting robbed, which wouldn't happen with the window. Yes, a window would absolutely make things easier for a friendly, but it would make things completely unfair for a thief. In the idea of not "restricting freedom of choice" and of risks (which in a way is what DayZ is about), a trade window just wouldn't fit.

[papajo 13]

xD I guess I'll bring up my argument again then. I'm not saying that the window is a generally bad idea, it just wouldn't fit, being that their isn't enough risk in it. In reality, the hand swap technique usually works fine, however sometimes when doing this, someone could easily quickly nab the thing your holding, and after taking it, book it. Yes, you could shoot at them typically, however they just robbed you, and you wouldn't want to ruin what they took, so either take the risk or don't. In game however, without the hand swap, you just do the drop and cycle technique, and again with this technique you have that inherited risk of getting robbed, which wouldn't happen with the window. Yes, a window would absolutely make things easier for a friendly, but it would make things completely unfair for a thief. In the idea of not "restricting freedom of choice" and of risks (which in a way is what DayZ is about), a trade window just wouldn't fit.

Ok I try to step a little on your ground to make this easier :P ok that sometimes could happen... but why to brake the balls of people that would do a legit trade most of the time because of a minority case of plausibilities?

and even in those cases KoS is an option so no harm done in terms decision freedom (no game assured result no bonds of conduct etc) .

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Trading window in my opinion has no merit in this game ... Trading is fine , Papajo , have you tried trading with someone and they backstabbed you ? If so just go on the trading section of the forums there's some trusted traders that will never do this to you . otherwise I believe this is the only way as dayz is supposed to be as realistic as possible (the only things we cut out for the sake of the game are things like needing to crap in game , those are things that truly don't need to make it into the game world ) but a trading window is just too arcadey/unrealistic for any game trying to have free open world decisions ; If you wanna trade in the apocalypse you must take the risk of getting robbed, because in your argument, the only reason why we need this is so you don't get killed whilst making the deal which removes all aspects of apocalypse and fear...

Besides all that even if there was some nice little trading window , who's to say the guy you just successfully traded with doesn't shoot you after the deal is done ? That's what makes trading sections of the forums flourish , people love to make unofficial trades in the game that usually ends in blood because people are just dicking around , but if you're serious to trade then it only makes sense to find the other traders dedicated to it which IMO is a great way to trade in the apocalypse lol ..

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

Ok I try to step a little on your ground to make this easier :P ok that sometimes could happen... but why to brake the balls of people that would do a legit trade most of the time because of a minority case of plausibilities?

and even in those cases KoS is an option so no harm done in terms decision freedom (no game assured result no bonds of conduct etc) .

Why thank you for coming to my side of reasoning xD

 

But because it wouldnt have an effect on someone who was doing a legit trade (Both ends), but it wouldn't restrict the (However small) player base that would attempt that robbery. Why choose Majority Safe over Majority Free in a game based AGAINST safety and FOR FREEDOM. It just doesn't make sense cx