Melee attack button

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I'd love it if we got that and a melee attack button but it probably won't happen since it'd make it easy to kill people so I guess people won't be a fan of this.

 

But why the hell not? If you make the snap decision to stab someone they have to be freaking fast on their feet to avoid it, unless you're slow.

You should need a knife and a sheath to do it, or anything else that fits in the sheath like a shiv or whatever.

 

Having to press 3 to equip your knife and then slash is just inadequate not to mention useless for anything other than skinning.

How about tap R or whatever to slash and hold to bring your knife out? (I sense urgh it's not CoD comments...)

 

As long as it doesn't insta-kill people simply by you cutting their shoe there's really nothing wrong with the concept, I guess if you could stab people in the neck it'd be too easy(even though that's realistic) but still a quick slash is still going to be helpful, maybe you just want a bambi to suffer for attacking you so make them bleed or you don't want to waste the bullets. And maybe knives could actually be useful against zombies other than in desperate situations.

 

Or maybe they could actually add a stealth attack for sneaking up on zombies and maybe people, if you sneak up on someone you deserve to be able to stab them surely? That would give a melee button great use you could stealthily work your way through a town taking out zombies instead of smashing them over the head really quite conspicuously.

 

 

So please, actually think about this one instead of instantly labelling it a CoD/casual thing when it's really quite basic, knives are dangerous but in DayZ unless you're skinning an animal, might as well use your fists.

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I am all for hotkeys, as for stealth attacks as you described makes me think of cinematic events ingame which I dislike greatly.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I am all for hotkeys, as for stealth attacks as you described makes me think of cinematic events ingame which I dislike greatly.

Doesn't have to be cinematic it's just an animation with more than 1 being involved.

 

It should be possible, only a moron would slash with a knife when they want to kill but in face to face combat that wouldn't work against people in this game.

 

 

It'd be annoying getting stealth killed for sure but if you let them sneak up on you it's not their problem.

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Doesn't have to be cinematic it's just an animation with more than 1 being involved.

 

It should be possible, only a moron would slash with a knife when they want to kill but in face to face combat that wouldn't work against people in this game.

 

 

It'd be annoying getting stealth killed for sure but if you let them sneak up on you it's not their problem.

 

When you sell it that way, sounds a bit better. 

[sachad 1016]

As long as it isn't a quick insta-kill with 100% success rate I don't see why it couldn't be added. If you're good enough that you can sneak up an a guy without him noticing you deserve a free shot, but it'd need good hit detection on the body. You could slash him in the neck or stab him in the head and kill him instantly, or you could botch up and only do superficial damage, giving him time to counter.

[Mos1ey 6301]

If you're sneaking up on someone then it shouldn't matter if you do it with your melee weapon in your hands. Being able to quick-stab someone while you have a rifle in your hands doesn't sound very authentic to me, sorry.

[lauri7x3 100]

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/163391-melee-key-and-handcuff-change/

 

anyway if u all had read the status report u would know its already planned

Edited November 1, 2014 by Lauri7x3

[Xbow 362]

Ohhhhh! yeah that's what we need automation so that dummies that don't know the controls  can suddenly become Rambo-Joe-Stealthkillman.

 

Clue 1: In RL the hardest thing imaginable is sneaking up on someone that is being reasonably alert and delivering an instantly lethal silent attack with a melee weapon.

 

Clue 2: Remaining undetected during your approach becomes  exponentially harder the closer you get.  

 

For those reasons  I guess that's why sub sonic ammunition and high performance suppressors have become popular.

 

Screw that fantasy disco button and make some of these available..

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0

 

perhaps what is really needed is a wrist mounted Stealth Boy that pipes Pink Panther Music to your ears while you are invisible. 

Edited November 1, 2014 by Xbow

[UltimateGentleman 355]

If you're sneaking up on someone then it shouldn't matter if you do it with your melee weapon in your hands. Being able to quick-stab someone while you have a rifle in your hands doesn't sound very authentic to me, sorry.

So it's impossible to shoulder your rifle in your magical slot and quickly grab someone, take your knife out and then stab them?

You wouldn't even need to put your gun away really unless it was something hefty.

 

And it's only instant when you manage to sneak up on them otherwise it's just a quick melee attack without having to switch to a completely different weapon...because who would? THAT isn't authentic.

*in a life or death fight with a guy*

"Hold on a minute I need to put my rifle down!"

"No problem, I'll stand here and close my eyes too"

 

 

Ohhhhh! yeah that's what we need automation so that dummies that don't know the controls  can suddenly become Rambo-Joe-Stealthkillman.

 

Clue 1: In RL the hardest thing imaginable is sneaking up on someone that is being reasonably alert and delivering an instantly lethal silent attack with a melee weapon.

 

Clue 2: Remaining undetected during your approach becomes  exponentially harder the closer you get.  

 

I guess that's why sub sonic ammunition and high performance suppressors have become popular.

Excuse me but I fail to understand what you mean by "don't know the controls"

 

Is there some kind of way to use a knife in this game beyond press your hotkeyed knife button and then click with the mouse to slash? Are you trying to suggest that's a sufficient way to use a knife? Because lol.

*sneaks up on someone*

*slashes their back* who in the hell would do that? Unless they were just playing with them,

 

1 Assuming everyone is decently alert...

And what about hiding behind a door or something, if it's not expected nobody can really prevent it unless they're expertly trained.

 

2 Not really it'd only be hard with a backpack full of cans and huge clunky boots on, I sneak up on people all the time and don't even intend to in real life, it's all in the walk.

This is something you'd realistically have to take a big risk doing and take your backpack off or have to do while you were under-equipped and desperate, or had a team mate covering you from afar.

 

Really don't see why you're hostile towards the idea how does it not make sense? Especially against zombies.

If you HAD to kill a zombie facing a store because you were starving and needed in there would you go up there with your knife and slice them across the back, initiating a fight and most probably alerting every other zombie nearby?

 

You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to do that but slashing is all we have currently.

 

 

I'm sure lots of sub sonic rounds would be in Chernaus for all the covert operations and shit they do, not to mention that it's not a very modern place.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/163391-melee-key-and-handcuff-change/

 

anyway if u all had read the status report u would know its already planned

Yeah but in what fashion? It should require a sheath or the boots with a knife slot not be like press R3 and your knife comes out of nowhere, CoD style.

Needs to be something quick for a fighting option and something that requires skill and patience(or a really dumb victim) to perform.

 

 

It would be somewhat easy against zombies but if you fucked up at all it'd go real bad and there's not exactly a guarantee there's just going to be one zombie facing the opposite direction in an area.

It's a fairly logical thing to be able to do.

Perhaps they could also add in things on the ground to make noise in various places, like smashed glass, crunchy leaves etc.

[freethink 984]

I can imagine spamming whatever key it would be in the forlorn hope that it had any effect. I struggle to take my axe at at the best of times and mainly have to drag it in inventory.

[lauri7x3 100]

ok lets be clear. i hope there will be nothing like "cod style" . never ever

[rybec 339]

Seeing the title I thought more along the lines of a buttstroke with your rifle. Obviously with compact, light weapons this would be an issue but the ones carrying something like a mosin could really smack someone around with it. Assuming you don't have the bayonet on it could give someone a nice solid whack.

[arlingtine 27]

In the status report it shows this is already planned. Not to make sneak attacks easier cuz that is not needed but so that anything and everything can be used as a weapon. It would also allow u to attack with a gun without shooting.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Not to make sneak attacks easier cuz that is not needed

But...why not?

 

Are we always going to have to take on a horde of zombies with a 75 drum mag just to loot a city? It should be possible to sneak in zombies aren't very aware of anything that isn't in front of them(regardless of distance seemingly)

 

Sure you can 1 hit kill them with an axe chop to the head from behind...but doing so should make a big noise, can't remember if it attracts zombies but it should.

A quick stab in the neck or temple is not especially difficult, not to a stupid dying creature with no peripheral vision.

 

It's still going to be damn difficult to stealth your way through a town but imagine the rewards, you could own that town essentially go somewhere high up and then someone comes along shooting zombies you have a perfect opportunity to kill them or just wait for the zombies to do it if you're not geared enough.

Just because CoD and most other FPS use knives doesn't mean they aren't legitimate weapons, they're just not so deadly a cut anywhere equals death...

[Xbow 362]

Excuse me but I fail to understand what you mean by "don't know the controls"

 

Is there some kind of way to use a knife in this game beyond press your hotkeyed knife button and then click with the mouse to slash? Are you trying to suggest that's a sufficient way to use a knife? Because lol.

*sneaks up on someone*

*slashes their back* who in the hell would do that? Unless they were just playing with them,

 

Are you trying to suggest that you have a clue about how to use a knife? Tell me have you ever been in a knife fight?  Didn't think so. Ever stalked and then silently removed a sentry with a knife? Didn't think so. (me neither)

 

I wont say that the melee system is top notch. And I agree that there is room for a couple of knife attack technique keys if that's what you are talking about. But I would prefer having them add CC techniques with the rifle and bayonet such as horizontal & vertical butt strokes, head and body bayonet thrusts, and vertical, horizontal and diagonal slashes myself. Perhaps a player should be able to program a key to deliver a combination of techniques with a melee weapon such as:

 

(Rifle and Bayonet)

 

•from the on guard position

 

1)thrust to the head

2)Horizontal or Vertical Butt Stroke

3)Reverse direction horizontal or vertical slash

 

•Return to the on guard position

 

And by the way sneaking up on someone is rather dependent on the type of ground you are traversing, the clothing and gear you are wearing among other things  so how do you intend to control those critical variables? Do you suggest a magic Joe-stealth button that creates a zone of invisibility and silence around your character as well? :blush:

 

Yes the melee system needs work but there are more pressing concerns for the devs to deal with at the moment.   

Edited November 2, 2014 by Xbow

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Have you ever been in a knife fight?  Didn't think so.

Are you suggesting fighting an unarmed untrained person or a zombie with a knife would be a fight?

 

Unless a person knows how to disarm you, you're not putting your heart in to it, you're an idiot or they have something to defend themselves with they should be dead humans are quite weak and fleshy, knives slide right in.

 

Obviously stabbing in this game wouldn't work for combat I mean what would happen if two guys use knives and stab at the same time? It'd be silly but a take down move, nothing wrong with that.

Maybe you could even aim it as someone said and just stab them in the leg, leave them as bait or something.

 

 

Nobody in their right mind would slash someone wearing a thick jacket that's a good way to get yourself punched in the face and knocked the crap out.

[Xbow 362]

Are you sug

 

Are you suggesting fighting an unarmed untrained person or a zombie with a knife would be a fight?

 

Unless a person knows how to disarm you, you're not putting your heart in to it, you're an idiot or they have something to defend themselves with they should be dead humans are quite weak and fleshy, knives slide right in.

 

Obviously stabbing in this game wouldn't work for combat I mean what would happen if two guys use knives and stab at the same time? It'd be silly but a take down move, nothing wrong with that.

Maybe you could even aim it as someone said and just stab them in the leg, leave them as bait or something.

 

 

Nobody in their right mind would slash someone wearing a thick jacket that's a good way to get yourself punched in the face and knocked the crap out. :lol:

"Are you suggesting fighting an unarmed untrained person or a zombie with a knife would be a fight?" Of course it would be a fight but the dumber and slower your opponent is makes it one that is easier to win for you barring random events that are not in your favor. But your initial assumption should be that your opponent armed or not is dangerous enough to end you. If you don't have that mindset you could easily end up having your knife shoved up your ass by an untrained but aggressive opponent. And FYI there just happens to be a world of crazy un-tained berserk fighters out there that can kill a host of trained fighters (of course the opposite is also true).       

 

Things are just happening too fast in a real fight to calculate exactly where you intend to drill someone (if you are thinking of it you are too slow) which is exactly why good fighters of any kind use combinations. When an opportunity presents itself it happens and openings by the way often last less than a second. So in the end its muscle memory that determines the survivor most of the time and either you have MM that is developed in training or in fights OR you don't. And guess what a normal sized trained fighter is very often at a distinct disadvantage against a large powerful berserker type with a significant reach and weight advantage. Your actions may end up killing the guy but that may be after he has taken you out.

 

But we were talking about stealth kills with a knife weren't we? And getting an instant silent kill with a knife is an exception and not the rule no matter how skilled someone is (unless the target is asleep, stoned or blind dumb and stupid. Better to use a machete or sword for that purpose and amputate pieces of the guys body and then deliver the kill shot. And  five will get you ten that a ripping diagonal slash delivered by your sharp ass bayonet affixed to your rifle will defeat a heavy jacket and cut meat most of the time.If you cut enough meat you have created a cripple. In bayonet training I have seen tires cut deeply via a hard slashing blow and that renders your notion that a jacket will deflect any and all slashes absurd. And that beings me to the notion that we should be able to reinforce our clothing with leather and other materials to make them better at resisting melee damage that is delivered by a blade. As for crushing weapons such as the new sledge hammer good luck you'll need some serious plate armor to dissipate a solid blow from one of those.  

 

Melee combat is far more complex than running and gunning and it is far more complex to program into a simulation as well. Still that doesn't alter the fact that some improvements are necessary so on that we may be in agreement. One thing I know is that without a skill development system of some sort a melee attack button makes little sense since everyone will have it hence nothing changes. Probably the best solution is to give a behind the curtain melee attack power and accuracy bonus to those that rack up a good number of kills with melee weapons. Lets say after a certain number melee kills you get a button. Experience is the best teacher and advantages should be earned.

 

Shouldn't a player also suffer a permanent wound damage penalty for repetitive injuries to a limb or the head? I think that is reasonable. However In a persistence world you can jump off a building re-spawn and head back to where you stashed your best gear. Which is really a monumental cheat so shouldn't at least some of your gear vaporize as a result of your previous death?  

Edited November 2, 2014 by Xbow

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

I don't know what's the deal with people and knives, maybe too many movies.

 

If you manage to sneak on someone you SHOOT HIM DEAD. You do not pull out your knife. The only time you'll pull out your knife is when it's the last thing you have.

[Xbow 362]

I don't know what's the deal with people and knives, maybe too many movies.

 

If you manage to sneak on someone you SHOOT HIM DEAD. You do not pull out your knife. The only time you'll pull out your knife is when it's the last thing you have.

I couldn't possibly agree with you more Lady Kyrath the myth of the instant silent knife kill is 99.9% of the time absurd movie stuff. I'll take a silenced pistol and subsonic ammunition (or a sawed off shotgun) over a knife every time .  SHOOT HIM DEAD is the best advise given in this thread thus far. The Knife Is A Weapon Of Last Resort

 

I think the knife deal is some sort of perverted I wanna be a Ninja fantasy. Whenever I kill another player that is unaware of my presence I do so with my rifle, pistol or Longhorn from as far away as possible and then I get gone, just in case he has some buddies lurking around that I haven't seen. I may circle back and observe the kill site from a safe distance and if I deem it to be clear  I might loot the corpse. But a fully geared corpse can be a honey pot that can get you killed.

 

You simply must have some beans!!! :beans:

Edited November 2, 2014 by Xbow

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I couldn't possibly agree with you more Lady Kyrath the myth of the instant silent knife kill is 99.9% of the time absurd movie stuff. I'll take a silenced pistol and subsonic ammunition (or a sawed off shotgun) over a knife every time .  SHOOT HIM DEAD is the best advise given in this thread thus far. The Knife Is A Weapon Of Last Resort

 

I think the knife deal is some sort of perverted I wanna be a Ninja fantasy. Whenever I kill another player that is unaware of my presence I do so with my rifle, pistol or Longhorn from as far away as possible and then I get gone, just in case he has some buddies lurking around that I haven't seen. I may circle back and observe the kill site from a safe distance and if I deem it to be clear  I might loot the corpse. But a fully geared corpse can be a honey pot that can get you killed.

 

You simply must have some beans!!! :beans:

 

I don't know what's the deal with people and knives, maybe too many movies.

 

If you manage to sneak on someone you SHOOT HIM DEAD. You do not pull out your knife. The only time you'll pull out your knife is when it's the last thing you have.

 

Um...no.

What if you don't have a gun? What if you don't have bullets? What if you don't have a silencer or sub sonic rounds?

Shooting would be daft if you didn't, you're going to alert their buddies and/or zombies. A knife to the throat is a much quieter option than an un-silenced gun, it's unreasonable to assume everyone would have access to silencers it's not TWD where they have infinite ammo and silencers unless the plot demands otherwise.

 

Stabbing in the neck or temple would be a great way to kill someone, slash them or stab them elsewhere and they might fall to the ground, whip out a pistol and shoot you. They'll probably die anyway unless they have a doctor and supplies handy but you'll probably die too.

Guns are a huge risk unless you're in open combat where it doesn't matter anyway.

 

 

Unless it's stated that we're all trained soldiers with martial arts skills there's no reason why stabbing from behind shouldn't be possible. Again if someone does it to you then that's your fault just like in real life you should have been paying attention not sitting looking through a scope for hours on end or just waiting for noobs to round a corner.

Melee weapons need to be a lot deadlier than they are it shouldn't require a headshot with an axe or pickaxe even to take someone down, that of course takes someone down but nobody with a pickaxe stabbed in to their back is going to live very long without divine intervention.

 

It's true that knives aren't insta-kill everywhere, there's a woman in my town who got stabbed 50 times and still lives but there are area's on the body you can insta-kill or as good as if you have the opportunity. Any horizontal stab to the neck is going to be fatal, downwards in to the shoulder potentially not but elsewhere and the side  of the head = dead

 

 

I don't see the problem with being able to kill people in one attack, it's not like stealth kills would be easy, not as easy as just shooting them but that's not always going to be an option if you sneak up on someone sitting waiting to kill people it's not a viable option to run away and find some handcuffs or a gun then come back 20 minutes later and shoot them. Unless they have no sense at all.

[Xbow 362]

Um...no.

What if you don't have a gun? What if you don't have bullets? What if you don't have a silencer or sub sonic rounds?....................................

 

UG, What part of 'weapon of last resort' didn't you get? Now be that as it may you are not going to get your, Super-Rambo-Ninja-Stealth-Instant Kill Button anytime soon IF EVER.  And in the light of your  Super-Rambo-Ninja-Stealth-Instant Kill Button  shouldn't there be a  Super-Rambo-Sentry-Mode-Impenetrable-Defense Button.  

 

It really sounds like what you want is Bethesda's V.A.T.S system as implemented in Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas......Good Luck With That!! :P 

 

UG wrote, "I don't see the problem with being able to kill people in one attack, it's not like stealth kills would be easy, not as easy as just shooting them but that's not always going to be an option if you sneak up on someone sitting waiting to kill people it's not a viable option to run away and find some handcuffs or a gun then come back 20 minutes later and shoot them. Unless they have no sense at all."

 

Huh? What? Dude are you trying to say that belting someone's unprotected head from behind with an axe will not render them instantly unconscious inert and bleeding out most of the time right now?  I beg to differ.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

UG, What part of 'weapon of last resort' didn't you get? Now be that as it may you are not going to get your, Super-Rambo-Ninja-Stealth-Instant Kill Button anytime soon IF EVER.  And in the light of your  Super-Rambo-Ninja-Stealth-Instant Kill Button  shouldn't there be a  Super-Rambo-Sentry-Mode-Impenetrable-Defense Button. 

 

It really sounds like what you want is Bethesda's V.A.T.S system as implemented in Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas......Good Luck With That!! :P 

 

UG wrote, "I don't see the problem with being able to kill people in one attack, it's not like stealth kills would be easy, not as easy as just shooting them but that's not always going to be an option if you sneak up on someone sitting waiting to kill people it's not a viable option to run away and find some handcuffs or a gun then come back 20 minutes later and shoot them. Unless they have no sense at all."

 

Huh? What? Dude are you trying to say that belting someone's unprotected head from behind with an axe will not render them instantly unconscious inert and bleeding out most of the time right now?  I beg to differ.

That's...that's not what I said at all at the bottom there.

 

It wouldn't take only an axe level weapon to take someone out in one attack but currently it's the only option so yeah you can stealth/surprise kill people with axes and that's fine but axes aren't the only thing that can kill people with one attack if someone stabs a knife in to the side of your head it's miraculous for you to survive and you're not fighting back at all.

 

I really don't get what you think is so hard about killing someone. IF you get the drop on them it's easy nobody can defend against a knife piercing in to their neck or head from an attacker they didn't know was right behind them.

And it's only IF.

V.A.T.S. is a very poor example not sure why you're comparing that to my idea, what you described is nothing like it at all that's the same as Battlefields counter knife thing where if you attack someone from the front they need only press a button and they stab you instead.

 

How about reading this I am only suggesting an instant stealth kill from behind

It still requires patience, judgement and luck to pull of it's never going to happen to extremely careful players for instance.

Attacking from the front just results in a regular slash because it would be unfair if you could take a combat knife and go on an unstoppable CoD rampage.

 

Stealth killing would be an act of skill and/or desperation, it's a huge risk to take but if someone pulls off sneaking up on you they damn well deserve the pay-off.

Instead of what we currently have which is:

*walks up to guy laying on the ground aiming a gun, not paying attention*

*takes out knife*

*slashes the guy doing basically nothing but causing some bleeding*

*guy turns round and shoots them with their Mosin, bandages himself and continues with what he was doing*

 

^tell me that situation makes any kind of realistic sense and type that with a straight face and you deserve money my friend.

 

What would happen is the guy would get a knife in his back/head/neck faster than he could defend himself.

 

Once again it's only possible IF you pull off sneaking up to them, which against a lot of players is a big if it's not like everyone would succeed.

[sachad 1016]

Seeing the title I thought more along the lines of a buttstroke with your rifle. Obviously with compact, light weapons this would be an issue but the ones carrying something like a mosin could really smack someone around with it. Assuming you don't have the bayonet on it could give someone a nice solid whack.

 

 

I wouldn't dismiss lighter arms. That's still a fairly heavy piece of metal, and especially a heavy handgun like the Magnum could deliver quite a blow.

[Xbow 362]

That's...that's not what I said at all at the bottom there.............

 

 

You said, "I really don't get what you think is so hard about killing someone. IF you get the drop on them it's easy nobody can defend against a knife piercing in to their neck or head from an attacker they didn't know was right behind them.

And it's only IF."  

 

First off I don't think its hard to kill someone in this game in fact I think its easy. I have dispatched a good number of clueless ones with melee weapons but I also don't like the fact that it may take five hits with a machete and a couple of hits in the head with an axe to incapacitate or KO your target even if you deliver the opener from behind on an unaware target.  

 

It comes down to the targets and the attackers relative positions. And for that something simple like points of position could be used to add or subtract  the amount of damage a melee weapon can inflict on the target.

 

If you attacking a target from behind yes you should get a reward of more damage delivered to the target.

 

•Standing attacker Prone Target From Behind....... .How about  6x damage 

•Standing attacker Kneeling target From Behind.....How about  4x damage

•Standing attacker Standing Target from Behind.....How about  3x damage  

 

But it must be remembered that the game is in ALPHA and the melee system is in a word  terrible especially with respect to accuracy as the reticle on the screen does not accurately reflect where the blow will land. that needs to be fixed.

 

I see no reason why nailing an unprotected head with a machinists hammer wouldn't be a one hit KO.  I am anxious to see how effective the new sledge hammer is because that weapon should be a one hit kill. to an unprotected head most if not all of the time. The knife however has problems as  it does not deliver the shock required to knock out the target instantly (in the game) and is completely dependent on the accuracy needed to destroy the throat, the pump, or the lower brain.  And I am not sure the system is mature enough to simulate any of that at this point.  

 

I see some serious and badly needed changes coming to the Melee system

Edited November 3, 2014 by Xbow

[cale 32]

I am all for hotkeys, as for stealth attacks as you described makes me think of cinematic events ingame which I dislike greatly.

 

 

Im all for you baby.