gut feelings

[TulaNoyes 5]

not in every case. but in most instances i just feel like meeting someone who has killed alot of people without a care in the world in real life would have a totaly different feel, then meeting someone in game that just killed a bunch of people knowing its just a game and they will respawn. its just not something you can replicate when the person on the end of the microphone hasent actually hacked up 5 new spawns with an ax just for the fun of it in real life.

[TulaNoyes 5]

And so for the millionth time again,

 

The real question is, why should there be any kind of "retribution" for killing other players? Because lets face it, sometimes the goal IS to make you leave the server or deny you to play.

i guess i dont really see it as retribution or a punishment, just a way to signify the changes in people. kinda how actually killing people might change a person.

[TulaNoyes 5]

Why? Woud you get a floating text in real life if you had a bad feeling about a guy?

And why would you want the game to decide if you have a bad feeling about a player?

 

Talk to the guy and judge by yourself.

 

That is, if you are actually willing to talk to someone. Most of the people just shoot first, then ask questions later

why would you say im cooling off or warming up, or i can feel blood dripping?  how would you get any kind off tell from a players voice that fake killed someone in a game, there is no emotional changes like there would be for most people if they started killing random people to survive.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Why should that be allowed? Everyone has the right to enjoy the game don't they? I don't see why that sort of attitude should be tolerated.

 

Anyway not much of an issue here are bad players going to cry because a message comes up for people suggesting they might be?

They're probably aiming to kill who they're talking to anyway so...what's the issue?

 

Boo hoo it might be a bit harder to deceive people but it's already dull in that that's almost all there is in the game, it's not like negative gameplay styles are being rejected it's the positive ones that don't get a helping hand.

Why should everyone feel obligated to be a dick? It being 50/50 would be way more interesting. Currently if you don't immediately assume someone you see is going to attack well you haven't played the game long enough.

 

I don't see what people find so exciting about it all being murder and torture.

 

 

It should never be so black and white as you are bad or you are good karma but some indication that you would obviously get in real life would be fantastic for people who want to co-operate and survive. People who don't have plenty guns etc to kill people with, so what's the harm?

Why should it not be allowed, wasn't this supposed to be the anti game?

 

"It might be harder to deceive people?" You guys are suggesting to make it impossible, just to compensate your inability to realize that you are putting yourself in a stupid situation to begin with. And don't get started with the whole "IRL we have tell tale visual cues that someone is lying". Lying is a lucrative job in the real world and everyone is doing it, many people got rich from it and you wouldn't know unless they where strapped to a polygraph.

 

What is this "indication" you would get in real life? Most people in the real world are blinded by prejudice and it only takes a suit and a well groomed appearance to be the most trustworthy person on the planet. Don't pretend that people somehow "sense" psychopaths because if we did we wouldn't be surprised every-time one of them does the news.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Why should it not be allowed, wasn't this supposed to be the anti game?

 

"It might be harder to deceive people?" You guys are suggesting to make it impossible, just to compensate your inability to realize that you are putting yourself in a stupid situation to begin with. And don't get started with the whole "IRL we have tell tale visual cues that someone is lying". Lying is a lucrative job in the real world and everyone is doing it, many people got rich from it and you wouldn't know unless they where strapped to a polygraph.

 

What is this "indication" you would get in real life? Most people in the real world are blinded by prejudice and it only takes a suit and a well groomed appearance to be the most trustworthy person on the planet. Don't pretend that people somehow "sense" psychopaths because if we did we wouldn't be surprised every-time one of them does the news.

Forgetting that people in this landscape would be completely different, hungry, angry, desperate.

It'd be damn easy to work out what people really wanted from you by looking at them it's not shady businessmen who lie for a living it's people who'd do anything to survive.

And there's a huge difference between a white lie and a "soon as your turn around I'm going to kill you" lie.

 

You'd have to be a pretty poor judge of character to not realize someone simply wants your stuff.

 

 

How would it be impossible to deceive people? KOSers would make it harder for themselves really if people get a gut feeling from them and they do just kill them everyone will run away or start a fight upon getting a gut feeling.

Just because you want to be a dick with no consequences doesn't mean everyone wants to put up with it. Why shouldn't friendly gameplay be encouraged? It's not going to turn in to a friendly only game is it?

 

At best it's going to be 50/50 there will always be CoD kiddies and people who just want a fight playing the game, why do you all have to act like any friendliness is a bad thing it's not like we're asking for friendly fire or anything lame like that, just something that makes people think "Oh hey maybe I won't kill this guy after all let's be bro's"

It's still going to be a rare event but as it is now...why play DayZ when you can get just as much fun playing an FPS since it's just about killing?

[Askelon 36]

Forgetting that people in this landscape would be completely different, hungry, angry, desperate.

It'd be damn easy to work out what people really wanted from you by looking at them it's not shady businessmen who lie for a living it's people who'd do anything to survive.

And there's a huge difference between a white lie and a "soon as your turn around I'm going to kill you" lie.

 

You'd have to be a pretty poor judge of character to not realize someone simply wants your stuff.

 

 

How would it be impossible to deceive people? KOSers would make it harder for themselves really if people get a gut feeling from them and they do just kill them everyone will run away or start a fight upon getting a gut feeling.

Just because you want to be a dick with no consequences doesn't mean everyone wants to put up with it. Why shouldn't friendly gameplay be encouraged? It's not going to turn in to a friendly only game is it?

 

At best it's going to be 50/50 there will always be CoD kiddies and people who just want a fight playing the game, why do you all have to act like any friendliness is a bad thing it's not like we're asking for friendly fire or anything lame like that, just something that makes people think "Oh hey maybe I won't kill this guy after all let's be bro's"

It's still going to be a rare event but as it is now...why play DayZ when you can get just as much fun playing an FPS since it's just about killing?

I agree with Kyrah. There should be no indication that a bandit is a bandit. If there was to be a gut feeling, it shouldn't be artificial. It should be your own.

 

Removing the deceptive factor makes things more dull, it takes away tension from encounters if you have a way of telling whether someone is hostile or not.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

I agree with Kyrah. There should be no indication that a bandit is a bandit. If there was to be a gut feeling, it shouldn't be artificial. It should be your own.

 

Removing the deceptive factor makes things more dull, it takes away tension from encounters if you have a way of telling whether someone is hostile or not.

 

This is completely off-topic, but your profile picture is awesome.

 

Seriously though, did you make it yourself or find it somewhere else?

[Askelon 36]

This is completely off-topic, but your profile picture is awesome.

 

Seriously though, did you make it yourself or find it somewhere else?

Found it. It was a pain looking for images of the flag of the ChDKZ, but I found this after looking for a while.

[doctorbadsign 645]

I met a guy once who was being reluctant to do what I said, and was not talking using a mic. It very soon became apparent that they were stalling and waiting for their friends to come to the location so we shot him in the face.

 

You get your own gut feelings in DayZ...

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Forgetting that people in this landscape would be completely different, hungry, angry, desperate.

It'd be damn easy to work out what people really wanted from you by looking at them it's not shady businessmen who lie for a living it's people who'd do anything to survive.

And there's a huge difference between a white lie and a "soon as your turn around I'm going to kill you" lie.

 

You'd have to be a pretty poor judge of character to not realize someone simply wants your stuff.

Desperate people can have quick changes of heart.

 

You meet this guy and fraternise, you are a little bit scared and he is afraid you might kill him too but you decide to do a bit of road together anyway, at some point you turn around and let your guard down, at this very moment in his head there is a dilemna: It would only take a bullet, maybe a whack of his axe to the back of your skull and he could have everything you had, and the loot he shared with you while you where together. After all its not like he really knew you, he was nice but he was simply trying to survive by not being a threat.

 

So maybe he kills you, feeling slightly ashamed of himself but convinced that it was just a matter of time until you would have had the same thought.

 

Or he does nothing and as you see him frozen in his thoughts you go "You're okay man?", and then he snaps out of it "Yeah I'm good, lets keep moving."

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Desperate people can have quick changes of heart.

 

You meet this guy and fraternise, you are a little bit scared and he is afraid you might kill him too but you decide to do a bit of road together anyway, at some point you turn around and let your guard down, at this very moment in his head there is a dilemna: It would only take a bullet, maybe a whack of his axe to the back of your skull and he could have everything you had, and the loot he shared with you while you where together. After all its not like he really knew you, he was nice but he was simply trying to survive by not being a threat.

 

So maybe he kills you, feeling slightly ashamed of himself but convinced that it was just a matter of time until you would have had the same thought.

 

Or he does nothing and as you see him frozen in his thoughts you go "You're okay man?", and then he snaps out of it "Yeah I'm good, lets keep moving."

 

Which has nothing to do with lying or guy feelings.

You shouldn't get a gut feeling over a sudden decision, what are you even talking about?

 

Should only happen for initial non combat meetings to let you know if you definitely should be wary or if you should chill out, dumb to trust anyone but smart to simply be careful not hostile.

 

 

The situation you described is very unlikely, another person to bash zombies heads in would be very beneficial only once they become a burden or if sacrificing them would save you would that be considered.

Other than by psychopaths.

[sachad 1016]

You should ALWAYS be wary. Even when I'm playing with RL friends I always try to stay behind them because one of them might decide it's hilarious to shoot me in the back and take my shit at any point in time... 

[Askelon 36]

Which has nothing to do with lying or guy feelings.

You shouldn't get a gut feeling over a sudden decision, what are you even talking about?

 

Should only happen for initial non combat meetings to let you know if you definitely should be wary or if you should chill out, dumb to trust anyone but smart to simply be careful not hostile.

 

 

The situation you described is very unlikely, another person to bash zombies heads in would be very beneficial only once they become a burden or if sacrificing them would save you would that be considered.

Other than by psychopaths.

It's unlikely, but possible.

 

Your artificial gut feelings would make it even more unlikely. "There goes my spidey senses, time to kill this guy.". As I've said, you shouldn't get any in-game way to tell whether someone is a bandit or not. Rely on your own gut feeling.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Askelon

[doctorbadsign 645]

The issue with gut feelings is that they can only enforce a black and white moral perspective.

 

There is no room for this person who didn't want to, but had to murder someone in self defence. Any such system could only take account of the kill itself. 

 

Also a bandit who rather than killing people likes to break people's legs and leave them to starve to death would not register as being a murderer. 

 

So sadists who haven't technically killed anyone would slip through the system and people who have killed in self defence would be branded as a bandit.

 

I've killed a few players, but I don't really play as a bandit. I have KOS'ed on occasion when I felt like it, but that is not my main play style. I don't want my character to be treated differently because a couple of days ago I had to kill someone or other when I was in the mood to do that.

 

A system that says either you're good or bad based on your kill count is painfully over simplistic for a game with the moral depth and ambiguity of DayZ.

Edited October 15, 2014 by DoctorBadSign

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

Most of the people just shoot first, then ask questions later

If I have to shoot first, there's rarely anyone left alive to answer any questions.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The issue with gut feelings is that they can only enforce a black and white moral perspective.

 

There is no room for this person who didn't want to, but had to murder someone in self defence. Any such system could only take account of the kill itself. 

 

Also a bandit who rather than killing people likes to break people's legs and leave them to starve to death would not register as being a murderer. 

 

So sadists who haven't technically killed anyone would slip through the system and people who have killed in self defence would be branded as a bandit.

 

I've killed a few players, but I don't really play as a bandit. I have KOS'ed on occasion when I felt like it, but that is not my main play style. I don't want my character to be treated differently because a couple of days ago I had to kill someone or other when I was in the mood to do that.

 

A system that says either you're good or bad based on your kill count is painfully over simplistic for a game with the moral depth and ambiguity of DayZ.

Exactly, as i said before (in other topics) such a system will never carry the context of your actions.

[rybec 339]

Why? Woud you get a floating text in real life if you had a bad feeling about a guy?

And why would you want the game to decide if you have a bad feeling about a player?

Ingame you can't see someone's eyes or facial expressions change. Looking at someone's face can give you an idea of what they're like.

 

The method of shooting everyone regardless of their attitude towards you remains the safest choice with zero downsides I suppose.

[TulaNoyes 5]

The issue with gut feelings is that they can only enforce a black and white moral perspective.

 

There is no room for this person who didn't want to, but had to murder someone in self defence. Any such system could only take account of the kill itself. 

 

Also a bandit who rather than killing people likes to break people's legs and leave them to starve to death would not register as being a murderer. 

 

So sadists who haven't technically killed anyone would slip through the system and people who have killed in self defence would be branded as a bandit.

 

I've killed a few players, but I don't really play as a bandit. I have KOS'ed on occasion when I felt like it, but that is not my main play style. I don't want my character to be treated differently because a couple of days ago I had to kill someone or other when I was in the mood to do that.

 

A system that says either you're good or bad based on your kill count is painfully over simplistic for a game with the moral depth and ambiguity of DayZ.

 

if a person doesnt really have a kill count or much to go off of. your guy would just say he doesnt know what to think of him. they could make a few different levels of how bad or good a person is like 1 seems a little shady 2 somethings definatly off with this guy 3. im getting a real diliverance vibe.. you could also gain points to redeem yourself, say if someone is spawn snipeing and is more on the evil side and you sneek up an cap him you would get props for takeing him out.

[Askelon 36]

if a person doesnt really have a kill count or much to go off of. your guy would just say he doesnt know what to think of him. they could make a few different levels of how bad or good a person is like 1 seems a little shady 2 somethings definatly off with this guy 3. im getting a real diliverance vibe.. you could also gain points to redeem yourself, say if someone is spawn snipeing and is more on the evil side and you sneek up an cap him you would get props for takeing him out.

No. That is just as bad, if not worse.

 

There should be NO indication of how many people a person has killed.

 

You're trying to force one playstyle onto other players, even more so than the ordinary gut feeling.

 

That system is also just as broken. "This person is shady! KILL THEM TO REDEEM MY CRIMES!!!!!". You're adding a moral system here, something that DayZ SA should never have.

[TulaNoyes 5]

No. That is just as bad, if not worse.

 

There should be NO indication of how many people a person has killed.

 

You're trying to force one playstyle onto other players, even more so than the ordinary gut feeling.

 

That system is also just as broken. "This person is shady! KILL THEM TO REDEEM MY CRIMES!!!!!". You're adding a moral system here, something that DayZ SA should never have.

how would any of this force a play style on to anyone its a simple message. i havent been playing long but if i dont have much im not gunna stop for some guy thats all ready geard up and yells hey stop what you where doing i know you ran past me and i had to track you down but im going to put these hand cuffs on you so i feel safe. if  it makes bandits feel better they could hold off messages till someone is cuffed so they could still get their rocks off trolling people. or they could make the skill earnable through your contact with other players so bandits could still harass the people that havent earned it. some people cant but some people can look at people and just know they are fake something you dont get with an animated character and a happy go lucky guy on a mic.

[Askelon 36]

how would any of this force a play style on to anyone its a simple message. i havent been playing long but if i dont have much im not gunna stop for some guy thats all ready geard up and yells hey stop what you where doing i know you ran past me and i had to track you down but im going to put these hand cuffs on you so i feel safe. if  it makes bandits feel better they could hold off messages till someone is cuffed so they could still get their rocks off trolling people. or they could make the skill earnable through your contact with other players so bandits could still harass the people that havent earned it. some people cant but some people can look at people and just know they are fake something you dont get with an animated character and a happy go lucky guy on a mic.

It would force it because if you get a warning for doing certain activities, it makes you instantly a target, discouraging said activities and forcing the "No KoSing, No Banditry, No Killing" playstyle on others.

 

Rely on your own gut feeling. If you are very poor at that, that's your problem. The game shouldn't give you an artificial way that is GUARANTEED to be correct. It removes a deceptive element. Your own gut feeling is not precise, and so you have to ask yourself whether or not to act. Giving people a way out removes that element, in addition to attempting to discourage an activity through a morality system, which is something the devs stated they do not want in DayZ.

 

The best way to bring down banditry and KoSing is via survival elements. Shoot a gun and it draws zombies, lots of zombies, making you ask yourself whether killing that poor fellow is really worth it. Making ammunition rarer adds to this.

 

Skills are a no-no as well.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Askelon

[TulaNoyes 5]

i was just spit balling. like i said i havent played long so havent been held captive or KOS to often i just thought it would be kinda cool to know what other players have done, im not gunna go through to whole role playing captive thing regardless i die first.

[Askelon 36]

i was just spit balling. like i said i havent played long so havent been held captive or KOS to often i just thought it would be kinda cool to know what other players have done, im not gunna go through to whole role playing captive thing regardless i die first.

The point is, you don't get to know what other players have done unless they tell you or they start to shoot.

 

But roleplay is fun!

[UltimateGentleman 355]

The best way to bring down banditry and KoSing is via survival elements. Shoot a gun and it draws zombies, lots of zombies, making you ask yourself whether killing that poor fellow is really worth it. Making ammunition rarer adds to this.

 

Skills are a no-no as well.

I guess, since most of them will leave when it becomes difficult to find ammo or guns...

 

But still it wouldn't create a black and white morality system if done right, no need to kill people over a gut feeling unless they start acting strange. Just because someone has killed another player doesn't mean they want to kill you too.

 

It already is a black and white system, leaning most heavily on the bad side(I would say black but that sounds racist) "trust no one" goes without saying but where's the fun in almost never being able to have a civil conversation besides with people you know or people who don't have weapons.

 

Especially geared players, meeting doesn't have to turn in to a meaningless fight. Meaningless because whoever wins the other is never going to be able to carry all the stuff they have whereas a "this guy seems alright" gut feeling could create a friendship.

 

 

I don't see why people shouldn't be encouraged to act the way normal people would in a survival situation such as this. People would work together not just fight, groups would be made and they'd fight why can't that be encouraged?

It shouldn't be up to friends on Steam alone to organize groups but otherwise everyone's so ridiculously hostile that it's nearly impossible to without using out of game features.

[TulaNoyes 5]

I guess, since most of them will leave when it becomes difficult to find ammo or guns...

 

But still it wouldn't create a black and white morality system if done right, no need to kill people over a gut feeling unless they start acting strange. Just because someone has killed another player doesn't mean they want to kill you too.

 

It already is a black and white system, leaning most heavily on the bad side(I would say black but that sounds racist) "trust no one" goes without saying but where's the fun in almost never being able to have a civil conversation besides with people you know or people who don't have weapons.

 

Especially geared players, meeting doesn't have to turn in to a meaningless fight. Meaningless because whoever wins the other is never going to be able to carry all the stuff they have whereas a "this guy seems alright" gut feeling could create a friendship.

 

 

I don't see why people shouldn't be encouraged to act the way normal people would in a survival situation such as this. People would work together not just fight, groups would be made and they'd fight why can't that be encouraged?

It shouldn't be up to friends on Steam alone to organize groups but otherwise everyone's so ridiculously hostile that it's nearly impossible to without using out of game features.

true if i was in a zombie type end of the world scenario my last thought would be man that guy has better gear. he could help fighting off zombies but meh i really like his back pack, ill just kill him. it would be a hard sytem to try and work out so most people would agree with it but i think it would be worth it.

Edited October 16, 2014 by TulaNoyes