DayZ Development progress makes no sense

[GhostDivision (DayZ) 22]

 

 ...just want to get a 'good feeling' from defending the developers and pretending they're morally superior. The absolute fact is that at this rate, we will never get a full-featured and polished game - it will go on like this, at a snail's pace of 'development' just to keep the poor saps who bought it complacent, then they will quietly abandon it with some excuses about new projects or financial limitations.

 

That's a great way of putting it. 100% agreed.

[Accolyte 1727]

Scrolling down further on the status report, we are just left with item after item of what would be beta-status changes: New 55-gallon drum art, New zombie skins, AK101 retexture. Of all these art changes, the only ones which make any sense are the addition of the smoke grenades (new mechanic - smoke nades) and waterproof bags. Every single other art change is something which should be occuring in beta. The animation changes are also what should be done in beta: "BugFixing" - this is a purely Beta+ feature. An alpha, by nature, SHOULD be full of bugs, since fixing them isn't the top priority. Beta is when you remove bugs and increase usability. "Bow animation polishing" - I don't even need to comment on this.

 

Scripting is the one area which gets some actual credit:

• Vehicle classification prototyping
• Vehicle component prototyping

This is what SHOULD be done during a beta.

 

I've not read all of your post(s), but let me address this. Vehicle prototyping is something that should definitely be done in alpha, not beta.

 

What you say in your quote above is the same argument that pops up in every single one of the rant threads that get posted here, only you worded it a bit better.

Why would the artist and animators not work on fixing stuff and adding more stuff no matter what stage the game is in? Are you suggesting that they should sit in their chairs and do nothing at all while they wait until programming support for say vehicles is finished? Obviously not. Please stop, you're making no sense.

[trtk 81]

I've not read all of your post(s), but let me address this. Vehicle prototyping is something that should definitely be done in alpha, not beta.

 

What you say in your quote above is the same argument that pops up in every single one of the rant threads that get posted here, only you worded it a bit better.

Why would the artist and animators not work on fixing stuff and adding more stuff no matter what stage the game is in? Are you suggesting that they should sit in their chairs and do nothing at all while they wait until programming support for say vehicles is finished? Obviously not. Please stop, you're making no sense.

 

You do a skillful job of selecting only the bad arguments and sidestepping the good ones, as is usual protocol for Bohemia damage control.

[Karmaterror 982]

I do agree with the OP a little bit, when I see minor tweaks to already functioning systems. Adding more weapons is just as others have said, cant have everyone working on one thing at once. Also wiki alpha definition does say adding weps is an alpha thing. Don't forget the map work that's ongoing aswell, the world should be pretty much done by beta and (as much as I hate it) they are infesting the north wilderness with new towns. 

 

 

The game now is still very, very similar to the one launched back in December

 

 

Gotta disagree with that though.....I couldn't make a fire or cook or even see an animal when dropped. Now theres a lot more, the mod may have some of the same features and more....but even an old mod feature introduced to the SA is technically a new feature written from the ground up. First they have to build dayz...then make it a "standalone" :)

[stielhandgranate 480]

Why don't you wait until the game is finished? Or read the fucking disclaimer? Y'know, that the game isn't finished?

 

Right because constructive criticism is never valid. I guess you should have "read the fucking disclaimer" and waited for the game to be finished when lobbying about the direction the devs were taking with weapons.

 

If you would have taken the three minutes to read the OP, would have taken note that he does have some valid points rather than it being another generic rant thread, compared to the development of other games like Starcraft 2, it is very haphazard.

 

 

 

The only people who complain about the development of this game are people who do not have real professional jobs. If they did, they would understand that doing anything right takes an incredible amount of work.

 

I complain a lot and have a professional Job, the military. Lets see how my conduct would read if I acted like a dev-

 

Staff Sergeant, did you complete the weapons parts inventory?

 

The inventory is in alpha, I know you were expecting by XXX time, but I I'm going to need about a year and a half to finish it, I got the letterhead and about 1/15th of it done, can you approve my leave?

 

Staff Sergeant, teach these three personnel how to use an M2 machinegun in three days

 

After three days, I can safely say these three individuals can drive and operate an MRAP. I know you were looking forward to seeing them be proficient on an M2 and hopefully in about four months we can get an M2 team ready for mobility. 

 

Staff Sergeant, when can the Armory be ready for it's annual inspection?

 

Its been great working with you sir, after a satisfying career of six years, I am ready to receive my full pension. Good luck to you.

[dgeesio 1034]

this is why you never pay builder upfront

 

 

as soon as they have your money its turns up / finish when they want.

 

 

they knew exactly how this project was going to progress thats why they put in red capitals the get out clause

 

 

WARNING: THIS GAME IS EARLY ACCESS ALPHA. PLEASE DO NOT PURCHASE IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO ACTIVELY SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT OF THE GAME AND ARE PREPARED TO HANDLE WITH SERIOUS ISSUES AND POSSIBLE INTERRUPTIONS OF GAME FUNCTIONING

 

now they can do whatever they want not finish take time you havent got a leg to stand on.

Edited September 6, 2014 by dgeesio

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Right because constructive criticism is never valid. I guess you should have "read the fucking disclaimer" and waited for the game to be finished when lobbying about the direction the devs were taking with weapons.

 

If you would have taken the three minutes to read the OP, would have taken note that he does have some valid points rather than it being another generic rant thread, compared to the development of other games like Starcraft 2, it is very haphazard.

 

 

 

 

I complain a lot and have a professional Job, the military. Lets see how my conduct would read if I acted like a dev-

 

Staff Sergeant, did you complete the weapons parts inventory?

 

The inventory is in alpha, I know you were expecting by XXX time, but I I'm going to need about a year and a half to finish it, I got the letterhead and about 1/15th of it done, can you approve my leave?

 

Staff Sergeant, teach these three personnel how to use an M2 machinegun in three days

 

After three days, I can safely say these three individuals can drive and operate an MRAP. I know you were looking forward to seeing them be proficient on an M2 and hopefully in about four months we can get an M2 team ready for mobility. 

 

Staff Sergeant, when can the Armory be ready for it's annual inspection?

 

Its been great working with you sir, after a satisfying career of six years, I am ready to receive my full pension. Good luck to you.

This analogy is ridiculous. Can you and Doomlord tell me how much time it should take for BI to finish each and every phase? Are you in the dev team? If you are, then I'll stop badgering you. Because then you would be in the know. How long is BI supposed to be in Alpha? Beta? Completed? Has every game developed used the same amount of time? Average? I still have no clue how somebody not in the loop could possibly know the answer to any of these questions. If you can do better, and get a game, the scope of Dayz, out before BI I'll buy it. How could a professional bring such BS against a fellow professional. You are not fixing bugs right now. You are complaining how long it's taking. That to me is just utter nonsense coming from a so called professional. Yeah, I want you on my team. Dale, most of this is directed at Doomlord. But I still don't like your analogy. It doesn't fit because we don't have the exact times and it's a lot more complicated then an inspection. Sorry. 

[RAM-bo4250 213]

this is why you never pay builder upfront

 

 

as soon as they have your money its turns up / finish when they want.

 

 

they knew exactly how this project was going to progress thats why they put in red capitals the get out clause

 

 

WARNING: THIS GAME IS EARLY ACCESS ALPHA. PLEASE DO NOT PURCHASE IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO ACTIVELY SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT OF THE GAME AND ARE PREPARED TO HANDLE WITH SERIOUS ISSUES AND POSSIBLE INTERRUPTIONS OF GAME FUNCTIONING

 

now they can do whatever they want not finish take time you havent got a leg to stand on.

Exactly right. And would exactly stand up in court. You read and signed an agreement. It wasn't hidden. It wasn't in small print. It might as well have been a huge neon sign. Is it becoming clear yet?

Edited September 6, 2014 by RAM-bo4250

[trtk 81]

Exactly right. And would exactly stand up in court. You read and signed an agreement. It wasn't hidden. It wasn't in small print. It might as well have been a huge neon sign. Is it becoming clear yet?

 

fyi you are 100% entitled to a refund of this game if you live anywhere in europe, and no 'disclaimer' they make can change that. Any company that refuses such a refund gets sued by the government of the party refused for violating their trade laws whilst vending their products there.

[dgeesio 1034]

if you got to get legal on how you produce a game

 

then obviously something is wrong !

 

to state that as soon as they started to sell it shown the intentions.

 

if not why put it ? its to clear the team backs for lack lustre work. which has happened but that little paragraph can be held up at any point .

 

" Hey guys we told you it would be buggy wouldnt work but you gave us millions of pounds while we messed it up but you were told about it so you kinda screwed anyway "

 

the funny thing is that the dev team dont even see this !

 

they think they have it covered !

 

they dont !

 

every forum to do with gaming i go on massive gaming forums they all think the SA is a joke now.

 

the devs need to pull their fingers out get the core stuff done bring people around get it out. show the money has been spent on bringing people the game they paid for and not another kickstart pipe dream.

Edited September 6, 2014 by dgeesio

[Doomlord52 62]

I've not read all of your post(s), but let me address this. Vehicle prototyping is something that should definitely be done in alpha, not beta.

 

What you say in your quote above is the same argument that pops up in every single one of the rant threads that get posted here, only you worded it a bit better.

Why would the artist and animators not work on fixing stuff and adding more stuff no matter what stage the game is in? Are you suggesting that they should sit in their chairs and do nothing at all while they wait until programming support for say vehicles is finished? Obviously not. Please stop, you're making no sense.

 

Oh no, I just realized I typed beta there. You're right, it should be done in alpha. That was my mistake, and it's fixed in OP.

 

What should the artists be doing in the mean-time? Well, there's still tons of art-related stuff to do. Even without the programming behind the vehicles done, the assets needed for that entire system could be made. The mod had 27 vehicles in it, and of course, those all could have variants. Then, as rocket said in an interview a while ago, parts from vehicles need to work on other vehicles as well (to some degree): this would mean stand-alone type parts, such as doors, windshields, etc. Those by themselves could already be in the game as static geometry, with no need for scripting. Other parts which would need to be added to the loot system could also be made: things like the alternator or spark plugs (again, quoting rocket) could be modeled, set to pick-able, created with flavor text, inventory icons, etc. They could even be added to the game as 'junk' pickups, since they would have no use until drivable vehicles were added. Depending on the detail that was being targeted, the vehicles might also need several different states, such as ones with the front-end severely damaged (beyond just a blend-layer over the normal texture....), that would require a different set of models as well.

 

Other than vehicles, you have the base-building type of things. Storage crates, mobile fuel tanks, maybe some kind of BBQ for cooking meat, large tents, sandbags, barricades, etc. also all need to be made. The existing models could be used for this, but personally, I think they would be far too 'military' to suit the survival aspect the game is trying to go for. However, one could argue that new 'civilian' versions of existing props should be done in beta, since it's an art pass. In that case, inventory UI icons are still needed (but that wouldn't take long).

Of course, eventually the game may hit a point where the programming back-log is simply too great, and the artists need to be moved into a more 'beta-oriented' production schedule. This is likely. since DayZ does borrow heavily from ARMA2 in many areas in terms of art, but few in terms of gameplay and mechanics. At this point, even something as simple as a statement saying "the art department has begun an art cleanup while the programmers work on new systems" would be extremely beneficial for the community, not only from the standpoint of knowing where the dev team is at in terms of progress, but also because it would signify impending improvements.

 

Such an art cleanup would be greatly beneficial, since many of the assets from ARMA 2 (and even ARMA3, but that's not important) aren't exactly what I would call excellent. Reduced polycount is always a benefit, and replacing objects with more instance-friendly ones would also be great in terms of performance.

 

 

That's just off the top of my head, and with the information that's been published. Im sure that within BI's DayZ team there is a much better list of things the art team could do, that will be needed in the near future.

 

/edit

 

To alleviate this problem entirely, where part of the community thinks that progress is too slow/random/illogical/etc. you could always make the internal change log (i.e. the day-to-day stuff) public (except for security/anti-cheat). That way people like me would know that "hey, the code for vehicle wheel movement is finally in" or "that missing collider has been fixed".

Edited September 7, 2014 by Doomlord52

[RAM-bo4250 213]

fyi you are 100% entitled to a refund of this game if you live anywhere in europe, and no 'disclaimer' they make can change that. Any company that refuses such a refund gets sued by the government of the party refused for violating their trade laws whilst vending their products there.

That still doesn't change what's going on here. People are complaining about how long it's taking based on false expectations. I live in America. When we are of sober mind and body and we sign something as straightforward as the buy in of Dayz Alpha with all it's clear warnings, it's binding. Especially since work is continuing to be put in on Dayz. They didn't take anyones money and run. 

      If it's true what you said about in Europe, than please you and all others avail yourself of that right and get your money back. And stop coming here and whining about how long it's taking. 

[RAM-bo4250 213]

if you got to get legal on how you produce a game

 

then obviously something is wrong !

 

to state that as soon as they started to sell it shown the intentions.

 

if not why put it ? its to clear the team backs for lack lustre work. which has happened but that little paragraph can be held up at any point .

 

" Hey guys we told you it would be buggy wouldnt work but you gave us millions of pounds while we messed it up but you were told about it so you kinda screwed anyway "

 

the funny thing is that the dev team dont even see this !

 

they think they have it covered !

 

they dont !

 

every forum to do with gaming i go on massive gaming forums they all think the SA is a joke now.

 

the devs need to pull their fingers out get the core stuff done bring people around get it out. show the money has been spent on bringing people the game they paid for and not another kickstart pipe dream.

I'm done with you. Sir, you are a donkey.

[Rags! 1966]

The fact is that this game is not going anywhere. 

 

 I've owned the game for a good six months now, and the differences and improvements that have been made since then are incredible. I have no idea how somebody can say that after nine months the game isn't going anywhere. To say that the game hasn't gone anywhere is so asinine and blatantly false that I cannot for the life of myself comprehend how an intelligent and sentient human being thinks that thought and then agrees with himself for thinking it. 

[ZomboWTF 527]

snip

That is something i thought about many times

 

I was in the alpha and beta of Fallen Earth, which was a great game for some time, and in alpha, the main thing to do is progress, which happened about twenty times as fast as here, bugs are a byproduct that will be adressed later

the top priority is to get the game to a stage where everything you want to be in the game is there, the next step is to ensure the quality of the content

 

if this game would be a piece of metal the devs are working on, they are now polishing it, just to re-heat it later, form it to another thing just to polish it again

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

Even with references it's not a reputable source. As I stated, anyone and I mean anyone can write on Wikipedia. Try to use Wikipedia on an educational paper. The teachers would give you an "F".

No. Not exactly. I've written multiple papers and essays throughout highschool, and used Wikipedia. Like I said above, all information on Wikipedia is sited at the bottom. All you have to do is take an extra 30 seconds and confirm the information.

[mercules 1290]

The issue with sticking to standard Alpha and Beta definitions is that by those definitions not a single player should have been invested by Alpha. The latest batch of games that are selling access during the early stages of development don't fit standard Alpha/Beta/Release schedules. 

Here is why I say that. Because people are actively playing you can't leave major gaping holes in the code like you normally would during alpha. Typically in an alpha if it crashed the game server when some performed a series of actions in a certain sequence you would make note of it, ask the testers and coders not to do that, and move on until you did a bug pass. When you have thousands of people playing the game you can't ignore that. You literally have to fix it before you can move on. This is something you would do later in Alpha or maybe even in Beta and you have to do it right away or some a-hole player out there will go around doing it just for fun to everyone's server. 

Instead they have to do a bunch of mini-alpha & mini-beta passes. They put in a new feature(typically an alpha task) but then need to make sure that feature doesn't make the game unplayable for the majority of the people playing. They can't just let it sit till later. 

[mercules 1290]

No. Not exactly. I've written multiple papers and essays throughout highschool, and used Wikipedia. Like I said above, all information on Wikipedia is sited at the bottom. All you have to do is take an extra 30 seconds and confirm the information.

 

There has been at least one citation I know of from wikipedia that was demonstrably false. About all Wikipedia is good for is looking of the sources cited and then tracking those sources down to actually use them. At that point you might as well have just gone to the library and done the research as you would have likely found more. It's a good source for quick general ideas about something, but not in any way a definitive source.

[trtk 81]

 I've owned the game for a good six months now, and the differences and improvements that have been made since then are incredible. I have no idea how somebody can say that after nine months the game isn't going anywhere. To say that the game hasn't gone anywhere is so asinine and blatantly false that I cannot for the life of myself comprehend how an intelligent and sentient human being thinks that thought and then agrees with himself for thinking it. 

 

I provided a list, but you chose to disregard it and just plainly state 'NO THAT'S WRONG' because you have no other argument.

[Rags! 1966]

I provided a list, but you chose to disregard it and just plainly state 'NO THAT'S WRONG' because you have no other argument.

 

I guess if I cared more about all you people whining like children on forums about "develop faster for me, company!" I could go through all the lists of things that they've added, too. But I won't because that would require more work on my part than I think posting on an online forum is worth for a game that I play to somebody that can look it up for himself. 

 

But if you look at the last nine months and seriously believe that nothing is happening you are just plain wrong. I actually have more games to play than DayZ on my computer, and I don't sit there and mope and complain online because a meager thirty dollars that I spent isn't being specifically rewarded exactly how I want it to when I want it to be for one of the games that I have paid for, especially one that makes it very clear that you're paying the company to play the game early like the guinea pig you are for them.

 

You know what else you could buy with thirty dollars? A book. To read. Instead of being here on the internet. With people like us. Who don't want your negativity here. I just don't understand...what's the message? What's the point of threads like these? Don't we already have people like you who are seriously upset that this game they bought, warnings and all, isn't being created fast enough for them?

 

Want me to provide a list? How about you just go to your own post list, where you just complain and whine and do nothing but be a downer about everything. 

"The devs don't care about anything"

 

"clusterfuck of cheaters"

 

Seriously. I'm convinced that all you want to do is hate on this game and have come to this site for just that exact reason. Everything you say is negative. Everything you post is nothing but calling out the negatives. Which is odd considering that you posted today at 6:02 PM...

 

"You do a skillful job of selecting only the bad arguments and sidestepping the good ones, as is usual protocol for Bohemia damage control."

 

Talk about being a hypocrite! All you do here is do nothing but talk about how negative things are, how bad things are, how horrible the future is, how the "Devs don't care about anything this time around"...absolutely stellar that you've given me something so blatantly hypocritical to call you out on. It just goes to show what kind of a person you are, and what you hope to accomplish on these forums. 

 

You don't want to have a discussion. You want to come online and look for whatever opportunity you can that's worth your time to talk smack about the game and the people who enjoy it, because anybody who likes the game and doesn't feel angry about how development is going on this ambitious project is part of the...what was your phrase..."Bohemia damage control".

[trtk 81]

I guess if I cared more about all you people whining like children on forums about "develop faster for me, company!" I could go through all the lists of things that they've added, too. But I won't because that would require more work on my part than I think posting on an online forum is worth for a game that I play to somebody that can look it up for himself. 

 

OK. Thanks for unambiguously saying that you are forfeiting the argument, because it seemed for a moment like you still had some delusion that you could remain in it while ignoring every point your opponents put forward and expecting others to prove your points for you. That's not how the burden of proof works.

 

The rest of your post is some cocktail of emotional appeals and irrelevant stuff, and you gave up on the argument by your own admission, so I'll ignore it.

Edited September 7, 2014 by trtk

[TheFarm 158]

The op makes some good points, but as most of you know this is not how Bohemia works. Would they benefit from pretending they are blizzard working on sc2? Maybe, but in this reality most of bi's work is experimentation. I dont think I would need to explain why r&d work has fluctuating, unpredictable deadlines, but basically creating and designing something nobody that you know has done before, is very different than counting how many barrels of fuel are in the company's inventory.

That being said I have 2 problems with how dayz is being developed.

First, the weapons and gear in general. As the op said, why are we getting retextures and hd models in alpha? I would expect the small objects to look closer to minecraft than their current crysis level of detail. Get all the weapons blocked in and functioning, then make it look good and create dozens of animations for it?

Second, contrary to the op's opinion I think the loot management stuff should have been done by now. Dayz is looting and shooting at its core, that should be alpha task #1 like gunfights were.

I would not take a refund, it is the most interesting current game project and I plan to stick around to see where it goes.

[Rags! 1966]

OK. Thanks for unambiguously saying that you are forfeiting the argument, because it seemed for a moment like you still had some delusion that you could remain in it while ignoring every point your opponents put forward and expecting others to prove your points for you. That's not how the burden of proof works.

 

The rest of your post is some cocktail of emotional appeals and irrelevant stuff, and you gave up on the argument by your own admission, so I'll ignore it.

 

When my point is obvious to any intelligent person, I'm not going to waste my time posting it in text format so anybody underneath them can perceive it. 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Imo what he said makes perfect sense. Why are they adding clothes and shit that aren't necessary to test?

Are you fucking kidding?  Every item in this game needs to be tested to see if they are working properly.  I could see it now.  "I put all my items in this coat and backpack and they all fucking disappeared!!?!?!  Your game sucks, fuck this shit I want my money back rabble rabble rabble."

[trtk 81]

Are you fucking kidding?  Every item in this game needs to be tested to see if they are working properly.  I could see it now.  "I put all my items in this coat and backpack and they all fucking disappeared!!?!?!  Your game sucks, fuck this shit I want my money back rabble rabble rabble."

 

Which is ABSOLUTELY NOT how it should go with these systems, especially oo systems. More shitty coding.