NSPU NVG Scope

[Chaingunfighter 917]

There's been a lot of concern about night vision, and thermal optics, which arguably give huge advantages to people who have them (And I will admit they probably do).

One of the big problems with NVGs in the mod was that they had their own slot for storage (and you still had a separate one for binoculars or rangefinders), and they could be used without consequence (turned on or off with the press of a button).

 

 

NVGs are in the game's files, and will probably be implemented at some point, most likely after the loot management system is done. But what if there was an alternative, that isn't so "overpowered" (I use the term for lack of a better word)?

 

The answer may lie in the NSPU (Night Small-arms Scope Unified), or 1PN34. The NSPU was designed for SVD rifles to be utilized during the nighttime, as would be obvious. As these were a relatively early form of night vision, the quality wasn't exactly the best, and they had a huge flaw if the mission turned over to daytime - you can't use the scope without power on. The obvious drawback to this is that being powered on enabled the night vision, which would render it useless at day.

 

 

So how would this affect DayZ? Well, for starters, something like this would still be rare as hell. You could use it on the guns that use the PSO-1 (AKM, AK101, and upcoming SVD), as well as others, like the PKM, and it would incur a huge advantage at night time. However, you're forced to make a heavy decision. Why?

The thing is MASSIVE. It would take up so many slots in your inventory to carry one, so quickly swapping it out and holding it until nighttime would be at the cost of most of your backpack space. And if you tried to keep it on the rifle and just free-aim, well, good luck sniping, and the massive profile will mean you'll get spotted very quickly.

 

You also cannot, in almost any circumstance, use the thing in the daytime (unless you're indoors, or something like that.)

 

So it'd be a hefty choice to make - do I want this rare scope that could help me out a lot at night time? Or should I leave it, because during the day it's just going to be taking up space? (And weigh a lot if said system gets added)

[gibonez 3633]

Sure why not it has that old school cool soviet vibe.

 

Won't matter anyway nobody will play on night servers making this useless though.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Holy Fuck!  That thing looks like it's heavier than the gun it's mounted on.

[captain_finnish 134]

Yea. I would be OK if this would come in DayZ. I just dont think that devs would make it useless in dayservers. But if it would be useless in those servers, people who think it is overpowered can just switch to dayserver. Also I dont think that it would be realistic that it would take a huge amount of space in inventory since axe takes like 5 slots.

[humdizzle 5]

If they want people to play nights they need to make an incentive to do so. There is no reason to play right now.. you can't see loot and turning on ur light leaves you exposed. Maybe they will add some in game night only missions (defend turf from zombie horde, travel from A to B, hostage escort, etc..) that reward you with high level gear.

[slim_pikins 30]

Any nvg's are practically useless until they sort out the gamma/brightness problem.

[foxdie_01 121]

I have no problem with this, especially given how redundant night vision is in this current build

[gibonez 3633]

The other reason this would make sense is that it would totally fit the setting.

 

This is a weapon I would expect to find in a crate in an abandon military base in eastern russia or the ukraine.

 

It makes sense it is not jarring or out of place.

[hothtimeblues 128]

Will Dayz's engine really be able to handle a working night vision scope? I can't fathom it being implemented. It sounds too demanding.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Holy Fuck!  That thing looks like it's heavier than the gun it's mounted on.

Hope so.

 

Would support a NVG scope only though, but thermals are out of question no in my opinion.

Unless they refine the stamina/dexterity system and they're heavy as hell, but even then...

 

That said, most of the servers i've seen on my list are daytime only or perma-night.  May change with shards.

Also dupers...

[mercules 1290]

Will Dayz's engine really be able to handle a working night vision scope? I can't fathom it being implemented. It sounds too demanding.

 

ARMA II, the mod, ARMA III, and such all handle Night Vision fine so I can't see any reason this similar engine won't as well.

[hothtimeblues 128]

Working silencers have eluded DayZ for a long time but you think working night vision scopes are totally possible? I am announcing it right now that we will never see working night vision scopes in the SA. I love the idea, so I appreciate the great idea.

[pickle patch 1]

 Maybe they will add some in game night only missions (defend turf from zombie horde, travel from A to B, hostage escort, etc..) that reward you with high level gear.

missions ??? wtf is this idea !!?

[ZomboWTF 527]

Working silencers have eluded DayZ for a long time but you think working night vision scopes are totally possible? I am announcing it right now that we will never see working night vision scopes in the SA. I love the idea, so I appreciate the great idea.

you never actually played the mod have you?

 

NVGs were in the mod from day 1, since they were standart in arma

 

with batteries being needed for some stuff in the standalone (though i think they never run out of charge) i am sure nightvision will get introduced at some point

 

don't expect it to be common loot though, and i really hope they get the duping out of the game when they put them in

[Ceallach 56]

I'd like it. It looks balanced well enough.

 

Here's the 1PN34 in action.. at least in a movie, which is already a rather rare occurence. :D

 

[hellcane 63]

Will Dayz's engine really be able to handle a working night vision scope? I can't fathom it being implemented. It sounds too demanding.

/facedesk

 

Working silencers have eluded DayZ for a long time but you think working night vision scopes are totally possible? I am announcing it right now that we will never see working night vision scopes in the SA. I love the idea, so I appreciate the great idea.

They worked perfectly in the mod, and I imagine once the correct ammo is added in-game for standalone they will work again.

 

If they want people to play nights they need to make an incentive to do so. There is no reason to play right now.. you can't see loot and turning on ur light leaves you exposed. Maybe they will add some in game night only missions (defend turf from zombie horde, travel from A to B, hostage escort, etc..) that reward you with high level gear.

 World of warcraft is ------------------------------------------>

[Katana67 2907]

Why not? Even though the thing looks about as silly as an optic can get.

 

Although, I have been considering the utility of head-mounted NVGs versus weapon-mounted NV optics.

 

No doubt, head-mounted NVGs are more flexible. So maybe NV optics might be a good way of mitigating some of the benefits that people cite with head-mounted NVGs (i.e. being able to use them all of the time).

 

Perhaps it'd be better to have the optic be night vision rather than forcing weapons to utilize head-mounted NV. You'd have to spot the player first, without the assistance of ambient NV whilst unscoped.

 

Might also give further use to looted rail systems in being able to put a NV optic in front of a normal optic.

 

Edited August 15, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Working silencers have eluded DayZ for a long time but you think working night vision scopes are totally possible? I am announcing it right now that we will never see working night vision scopes in the SA. I love the idea, so I appreciate the great idea.

The reason suppressors don't work now is because of problems with switching the weapon's sound and noise properties when applying the attachment, it's unrelated to the NVGs. The NVGs are just a night filter applied through a scope, nothing to do with sound, really.

 

Hope so.

 

Would support a NVG scope only though, but thermals are out of question no in my opinion.

Unless they refine the stamina/dexterity system and they're heavy as hell, but even then...

 

That said, most of the servers i've seen on my list are daytime only or perma-night.  May change with shards.

Also dupers...

I can't see something like this being a super high end attachment. I mean, sure, it's high end for the simple fact that you get night vision, but because of how bulky the thing is, and the fact that you can't really see through the scope in the daytime, would make it pretty selective.

Also, yes, most people like to play at daytime, so you wouldn't see too many people carrying this thing around. That, and your dexterity with this thing on is going to be really low.

 

Duping could probably be a problem, but it's really no worse than other kitted out M4A1s and AKs that get duped. I wouldn't advocate for adding stuff like this until a solution for duping comes around, though.

 

I think something like this would probably be the rarest of the stuff that ISN'T managed, i.e. there's no maximum, but they're super rare. Modern night vision goggles and scopes that can be switched on/off, among other things, would be managed items.

 

If they want people to play nights they need to make an incentive to do so. There is no reason to play right now.. you can't see loot and turning on ur light leaves you exposed. Maybe they will add some in game night only missions (defend turf from zombie horde, travel from A to B, hostage escort, etc..) that reward you with high level gear.

I don't think missions are going to be a thing, especially not NPC ones, because Rocket and the rest of the devs have expressed discourse at the entire idea - they want it to be more of a sandbox. I do think some more incentives to play at night would be nice, like actual increased stealth (avoiding zombies easier at night should be a thing), but adding vision sources that aren't as risky would certainly help.

 

Holy Fuck!  That thing looks like it's heavier than the gun it's mounted on.

Potentially could be, but that's what makes it balanced, you get heavily reduced dexterity and a larger profile.

 

Sure why not it has that old school cool soviet vibe.

 

Won't matter anyway nobody will play on night servers making this useless though.

Night servers are underpopulated because the lighting system is pretty poorly optimized, you can't sneak around zombies any easier, and there aren't any good sources of vision. Night vision would certainly give people another reason to try it out, because it's much less risky.

 

 

 

Why not? Even though the thing looks about as silly as an optic can get.

 

Although, I have been considering the utility of head-mounted NVGs versus weapon-mounted NV optics.

 

No doubt, head-mounted NVGs are more flexible. So maybe NV optics might be a good way of mitigating some of the benefits that people cite with head-mounted NVGs (i.e. being able to use them all of the time).

 

Perhaps it'd be better to have the optic be night vision rather than forcing weapons to utilize head-mounted NV. You'd have to spot the player first, without the assistance of ambient NV whilst unscoped.

 

Might also give further use to looted rail systems in being able to put a NV optic in front of a normal optic.

 

 

That could work, too. I was just thinking scopes that have a lower profile, can be used at night and in the day, and wouldn't take up as much space, would be rarer, and probably part of the loot management system. Goggles would be, too.

Things like this would basically be your only reliable method of getting night vision, otherwise you'll have to look very carefully, or take someone out.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[Katana67 2907]

That could work, too. I was just thinking scopes that have a lower profile, can be used at night and in the day, and wouldn't take up as much space, would be rarer, and probably part of the loot management system. Goggles would be, too.

Things like this would basically be your only reliable method of getting night vision, otherwise you'll have to look very carefully, or take someone out.

 

While I'm quite sure they'll be adding head-mounted NVGs (as they're in the game files, with a whitebox model) I'm not really convinced they should. Or at the very least, I'm not sure it should be the only form of night-vision.

 

I think that night-vision should absolutely be added. I'm just unsure as to what form I want it to take.

 

Now that I've given it some thought (thanks to your thread), I'm going to go ahead and say that they need to look into having NV optics for weapons (rather than NVGs).

 

It's a case of having NV only work when you're scoped (weapon-mounted) or unscoped (head-mounted). And I think being able to use NVGs whilst unscoped is a bigger advantage (especially when both are combined, like we saw in the mod with the DMR).

 

Target identification is everything, and head-mounted NVGs help tremendously with it initially. But NV optics only help you see your target once you've already identified it.

 

So perhaps that might be a good way of balancing it. One option gives the player the ability to use NV while sighted. The other gives the player the ability to use NV while running around, but not sighted.

 

The only way in which it could be considered overpowered (I don't consider it to be, if it's appropriately rare/difficult to acquire/maintain both abilities separately) is if the player can both use NV optics when sighted and use NVGs while running around.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

While I'm quite sure they'll be adding head-mounted NVGs (as they're in the game files, with a whitebox model) I'm not really convinced they should. Or at the very least, I'm not sure it should be the only form of night-vision.

 

I think that night-vision should absolutely be added. I'm just unsure as to what form I want it to take.

 

Now that I've given it some thought (thanks to your thread), I'm going to go ahead and say that they need to look into having NV optics for weapons (rather than NVGs).

 

It's a case of having NV only work when you're scoped (weapon-mounted) or unscoped (head-mounted). And I think being able to use NVGs whilst unscoped is a bigger advantage (especially when both are combined, like we saw in the mod with the DMR).

 

Target identification is everything, and head-mounted NVGs help tremendously with it initially. But NV optics only help you see your target once you've already identified it.

 

So perhaps that might be a good way of balancing it. One option gives the player the ability to use NV while sighted. The other gives the player the ability to use NV while running around, but not sighted.

 

The only way in which it could be considered overpowered (I don't consider it to be, if it's appropriately rare/difficult to acquire/maintain both abilities separately) is if the player can both use NV optics when sighted and use NVGs while running around.

I mean, using NVGs with regular red-dot optics (such as the aimpoint) is fine, but because we have 3D scopes now, I'd reckon actually aiming with NVGs would be pretty difficult.

Still, I think the actual wearable goggles should be some of the rarest items, simply for the fact that you can use them when unscoped.

 

Certain night vision scopes, like the one you depicted on that picture of the M110/SR25, would still be fairly rare, because they can be toggled off and be used as a regular scope in the daytime, but you still have to be sighted in to use them.

 

The NSPU would only be different for the fact that it's a nighttime only optic. You only get put at a disadvantage when using it during the day. That's why I don't think it warrants being a manged item, simply because the downsides are very prevalent.

[Katana67 2907]

I mean, using NVGs with regular red-dot optics (such as the aimpoint) is fine, but because we have 3D scopes now, I'd reckon actually aiming with NVGs would be pretty difficult.

Still, I think the actual wearable goggles should be some of the rarest items, simply for the fact that you can use them when unscoped.

 

Certain night vision scopes, like the one you depicted on that picture of the M110/SR25, would still be fairly rare, because they can be toggled off and be used as a regular scope in the daytime, but you still have to be sighted in to use them.

 

The NSPU would only be different for the fact that it's a nighttime only optic. You only get put at a disadvantage when using it during the day. That's why I don't think it warrants being a manged item, simply because the downsides are very prevalent.

 

Right, but I think having the player choose between using night-vision for close/long-range is a good thing. That could be manifested if the player had to choose between using a weapon with a scoped NV optic, or, using NVGs and having that be useless for anything other than close-range.

 

I absolutely agree, both should be rare in the first place. And they should require optic-specific batteries to power, which would of course run out eventually. I'm pretty sure though, that I'd want it to be a regulated item. But I'd be willing to concede that NV optics (vice NVGs) do not necessarily need to be regulated, because their use is limited by the fact that you have to first spot your target regardless of whether the optic is night-only or not.

 

But the true rarity should be manifested in having the player find/maintain both items (i.e. NVGs and a NV optic) separately.

 

And yeah, I think the night-only optic would be a good idea too. Like the FAL w/ NVS from the mod.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Right, but I think having the player choose between using night-vision for close/long-range is a good thing. That could be manifested if the player had to choose between using a weapon with a scoped NV optic, or, using NVGs and having that be useless for anything other than close-range.

 

I absolutely agree, both should be rare in the first place. And they should require optic-specific batteries to power, which would of course run out eventually. I'm pretty sure though, that I'd want it to be a regulated item. But I'd be willing to concede that NV optics (vice NVGs) do not necessarily need to be regulated, because their use is limited by the fact that you have to first spot your target regardless of whether the optic is night-only or not.

 

But the true rarity should be manifested in having the player find/maintain both items (i.e. NVGs and a NV optic) separately.

 

And yeah, I think the night-only optic would be a good idea too. Like the FAL w/ NVS from the mod.

Yeah, but the FAL with the NVS was really bad because you couldn't ever detach it and the FAL was already underused, at least compared to the M14 and DMR (which were both better, because they had a red-dot and sniper scope, respectively)