Gold AKM for Loot Management System?

[alexeistukov 272]

Sweet, I was going to post this there, but I decided I could elaborate on how it could go hand in hand with the loot management system so I tied them both into one thread, but thank you.

 

Hope you don't mind me using some of your information to support why it should be in the game though.

 

 

I completely agree with ya though man.

 

 

No problem! 

 

 

God Bless!

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Hope you don't mind me using some of your information to support why it should be in the game though.

 

 

I completely agree with ya though man.

 

 

No problem! 

 

 

God Bless!

Fine with me, the community weapon suggestions thread is honestly the most likely place the devs will listen to weapon suggestions on the forum, because of how popular it is. Generally I like to think that suggestions here are just ways to get other DayZ player's opinions on ideas, but the devs do take input from it.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[rybec 339]

I'd like to scribble my name on the weapon ingame with a sharpie so the next wielder gets to look at it.

[alexeistukov 272]

Added the Gold Plated AKM to the Community's Weapon Suggestion List  :D

[bobotype3334 160]

Please no. Everyone keeps forgetting Chernarus is poor. This isn't an oil rich area like in the middle east where you guys are citing examples, this is a post-Soviet farming community.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Please no. Everyone keeps forgetting Chernarus is poor. This isn't an oil rich area like in the middle east where you guys are citing examples, this is a post-Soviet farming community.

Well apparently they're rich enough to get FNX45s, M4A1s, expensive Blaze 95 hunting rifles, etc. Now, of course, the FNX and M4A1 could be foreign, but I doubt anyone's going to be landing in a foreign country with double rifles.

 

That's just forgetting the fact that an active insurgency occurred before the apocalypse and there are gold AKMs in ArmA 2, used by some of the insurgents. These insurgents also have G36Cs. Maybe they were supplied, but they still exist in the lore regardless of how they got there.

 

I'd reckon the quality of life is fairly better for Chernarussian farmers than your average Middle Eastern denizen. Cases my vary, but I'd definitely rather live in the Czech Republic than in Afghanistan. Most of the golden AKs you see aren't owned by particularly rich people, just guerrilla leaders or members with a large ego.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[audax 207]

Just add a diamond sword.

 

Edited July 27, 2014 by Edoissimo

[bobotype3334 160]

Well apparently they're rich enough to get FNX45s, M4A1s, expensive Blaze 95 hunting rifles, etc. Now, of course, the FNX and M4A1 could be foreign, but I doubt anyone's going to be landing in a foreign country with double rifles.

 

That's just forgetting the fact that an active insurgency occurred before the apocalypse and there are gold AKMs in ArmA 2, used by some of the insurgents. These insurgents also have G36Cs. Maybe they were supplied, but they still exist in the lore regardless of how they got there.

 

I'd reckon the quality of life is fairly better for Chernarussian farmers than your average Middle Eastern denizen. Cases my vary, but I'd definitely rather live in the Czech Republic than in Afghanistan. Most of the golden AKs you see aren't owned by particularly rich people, just guerrilla leaders or members with a large ego.

And how is ArmA canon linked to DayZ canon? Are we saying Chernarus experienced first an insurgency, then a zombie apocalypse? I just assumed that the two occur in different timelines.

Couldn't the FNX45s and M4s and so on be state issued? I'm not a weapons expert but I think it's far more plausible that a poor country with a surprisingly high military presence would have such things distributed by the government, and they wouldn't be handing out golden weapons if they were doing so.

Edited July 27, 2014 by bobotype3334

[King Raptor 191]

What could this possibly add to DayZ? It's a zombie survival simulator, not a Miami coke-lord simulator. People tend to forget that way too easily. Probably because the game is broken as hell atm and doesn't actually feature any zombies.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

And how is ArmA canon linked to DayZ canon? Are we saying Chernarus experienced first an insurgency, then a zombie apocalypse? I just assumed that the two occur in different timelines.

Couldn't the FNX45s and M4s and so on be state issued? I'm not a weapons expert but I think it's far more plausible that a poor country with a surprisingly high military presence would have such things distributed by the government, and they wouldn't be handing out golden weapons if they were doing so.

"I could tell you how Chernarus isn't Russia and I could explain the research I have conducted on my own by visiting gun shops in Russia and in Czech Republic and the massive variety of guns and ammo you can find there. I could tell you that the back story of Chernarus rides on the back of ArmA2 in which there was large amounts of NATO forces and US personnel conducting an FID mission." - Scubaman3D (Lead Artist Chris Torchia)

 

[source: http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/23ruwz/scoped_pistol_screenshot_from_chris_torchias/ch0oc74 ]

 

The developers are working with the idea that ArmA 2 did occur at some point in the DayZ universe's past. Hell, there are even CHzDK (the insurgent faction from ArmA II) berets, so the faction must've existed, and they were the group that had Golden AKMs and G36Cs.

And that was also the faction that was fighting against the CDF and the CHernarussian government, so they would've procured most of their weapons through arms dealers or foreign aid, and that far increases the chance of some "custom" AKs appearing.

Regardless, I don't want them to be common, at all. Hence why I suggested using the loot management system, meaning there could only be 100 or so, in all of DayZ. You'd be very lucky to meet someone with one, let alone find it yourself. It's not like 50% of the AKs are going to be gold.

 

What could this possibly add to DayZ? It's a zombie survival simulator, not a Miami coke-lord simulator. People tend to forget that way too easily. Probably because the game is broken as hell atm and doesn't actually feature any zombies.

It's not a simulator.

What could it possibly add? Aesthetic. Yes, that's a marginal, low priority reason to add something, but it'd be no real different than the 1911 Engraved they made. It just adds to the idea that not everyone you're encountering is the same, which is something that the game has had a tremendous improvement on over the mod.

 

The only point of using this over a regular AKM would be as a status symbol or because it's rare, but at the same time you'd also be more easily visible and a more likely target. It's just something to give people things to keep looking for, because a lot of people who are really dedicated to the game would love to have rare stuff (it's why I tend to use my 1911 Engraved over the FNX-45 even though the FNX is clearly superior)

Granted, I'm not suggesting this be added any time soon. It has to wait for the loot management system, and even then, it's low priority. But it's not like applying a metallic gold layer over the model's texture and adding it as a new weapon nearly identical to the AKM is going to take that much time.

[bobotype3334 160]

"I could tell you how Chernarus isn't Russia and I could explain the research I have conducted on my own by visiting gun shops in Russia and in Czech Republic and the massive variety of guns and ammo you can find there. I could tell you that the back story of Chernarus rides on the back of ArmA2 in which there was large amounts of NATO forces and US personnel conducting an FID mission." - Scubaman3D (Lead Artist Chris Torchia)

 

[source: http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/23ruwz/scoped_pistol_screenshot_from_chris_torchias/ch0oc74 ]

 

The developers are working with the idea that ArmA 2 did occur at some point in the DayZ universe's past. Hell, there are even CHzDK (the insurgent faction from ArmA II) berets, so the faction must've existed, and they were the group that had Golden AKMs and G36Cs.

And that was also the faction that was fighting against the CDF and the CHernarussian government, so they would've procured most of their weapons through arms dealers or foreign aid, and that far increases the chance of some "custom" AKs appearing.

Regardless, I don't want them to be common, at all. Hence why I suggested using the loot management system, meaning there could only be 100 or so, in all of DayZ. You'd be very lucky to meet someone with one, let alone find it yourself. It's not like 50% of the AKs are going to be gold.

 

It's not a simulator.

What could it possibly add? Aesthetic. Yes, that's a marginal, low priority reason to add something, but it'd be no real different than the 1911 Engraved they made. It just adds to the idea that not everyone you're encountering is the same, which is something that the game has had a tremendous improvement on over the mod.

 

The only point of using this over a regular AKM would be as a status symbol or because it's rare, but at the same time you'd also be more easily visible and a more likely target. It's just something to give people things to keep looking for, because a lot of people who are really dedicated to the game would love to have rare stuff (it's why I tend to use my 1911 Engraved over the FNX-45 even though the FNX is clearly superior)

Granted, I'm not suggesting this be added any time soon. It has to wait for the loot management system, and even then, it's low priority. But it's not like applying a metallic gold layer over the model's texture and adding it as a new weapon nearly identical to the AKM is going to take that much time.

Good evidence. But even with that in mind, "only" 100 gold shiny AKMs are a completely ridiculous figure, as I'm sure you can see.

As for "not a simulator", you might want to rethink that one. It's based on ARMA, a military simulator; it uses very no "gamey" concepts like bosses or health bars or levelling up, it implements/plans to implement one of the most realistic vehicle and physics engines out there, and bullets are projectiles affected by the environment. It IS one of the most realistic zombie games out there and strives to be as much as any game involving the "undead" can be, and the mod originated as Rocket's realistic survival sim for the military.

Maybe gold spraypaint is a good idea for guns, but I just think that in the aftermath of canon ARMA conflict, the money a gold-plated AKM is worth to a poor Chernarussian farmer would be worth more to him than keeping such a weapon himself. 100 is a bloody insane figure, and even having over 10 is unlikely as hell.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Good evidence. But even with that in mind, "only" 100 gold shiny AKMs are a completely ridiculous figure, as I'm sure you can see.

As for "not a simulator", you might want to rethink that one. It's based on ARMA, a military simulator; it uses very no "gamey" concepts like bosses or health bars or levelling up, it implements/plans to implement one of the most realistic vehicle and physics engines out there, and bullets are projectiles affected by the environment. It IS one of the most realistic zombie games out there and strives to be as much as any game involving the "undead" can be, and the mod originated as Rocket's realistic survival sim for the military.

Maybe gold spraypaint is a good idea for guns, but I just think that in the aftermath of canon ARMA conflict, the money a gold-plated AKM is worth to a poor Chernarussian farmer would be worth more to him than keeping such a weapon himself. 100 is a bloody insane figure, and even having over 10 is unlikely as hell.

ArmA is marketed as a simulator, yes, but the only similarities between DayZ & and ArmA 2 is that they utilize similar engines and DayZ uses the map of Chernarus and lore from ArmA 2. Many of the factors in DayZ are realistic, however, a simulator almost always takes everything to the most realistic extent possible within the limitations of the engine and software, almost completely disregarding gameplay. (There are some instances, like Microsoft Flight Simulator, that allow you to do unrealistic/gamey things, but it's very minor)

 

DayZ has not followed that route. There are plenty of things that are well within the confines of the engine that would be necessary for a simulator to have that DayZ does not. For instance, using morphine permanently fixes your leg. While this is good in the interest of gameplay, the best morphine could do in real life is give you some temporary relief to possibly allow you to walk for a short time, assuming the wound was not bad enough. Also, one need not actually hold onto a splint and nurse your broken leg back to health, simply applying it allows you to run full speed yet again, even though in reality you'd be fairly immobile and only have one arm free most of the time. Again, this benefits gameplay, and it's definitely more realistic than some games that allow you to just "heal up", but it's not simulating survival.

 

Not everyone fighting in the Chernarussian conflict was poor farmers, in fact, most of the poor farmers were just part of the "Green" guerrilla groups. The rest of them were trained insurgents and military troops, with backing from Russia and the United States. Granted, depending on the canonical outcome of ArmA 2, how Chernarus would be is entirely different, but it's not likely that all of the insurgents would've just laid down arms, and many would just return to their homes with their weapons.

 

In the interest of gameplay, limiting it to '10' golden AKs for the many thousands of DayZ players is a bad design decision. I mean, the actual number would probably be like 500, which seems like a lot. But if you consider there are many thousands of players at one time, and over a million copies have been sold, less than a thousand of them is an insignificant number.

I get how you're thinking, because if we went under the assumption that all of the stuff that's ever spawned in the game would've been at one point in the real world, then finding 500 golden AKs in a terrain that's only a couple hundred square kilometers would be odd, but across the entire board that's very few.

[bobotype3334 160]

ArmA is marketed as a simulator, yes, but the only similarities between DayZ & and ArmA 2 is that they utilize similar engines and DayZ uses the map of Chernarus and lore from ArmA 2. Many of the factors in DayZ are realistic, however, a simulator almost always takes everything to the most realistic extent possible within the limitations of the engine and software, almost completely disregarding gameplay. (There are some instances, like Microsoft Flight Simulator, that allow you to do unrealistic/gamey things, but it's very minor)

 

DayZ has not followed that route. There are plenty of things that are well within the confines of the engine that would be necessary for a simulator to have that DayZ does not. For instance, using morphine permanently fixes your leg. While this is good in the interest of gameplay, the best morphine could do in real life is give you some temporary relief to possibly allow you to walk for a short time, assuming the wound was not bad enough. Also, one need not actually hold onto a splint and nurse your broken leg back to health, simply applying it allows you to run full speed yet again, even though in reality you'd be fairly immobile and only have one arm free most of the time. Again, this benefits gameplay, and it's definitely more realistic than some games that allow you to just "heal up", but it's not simulating survival.

 

Not everyone fighting in the Chernarussian conflict was poor farmers, in fact, most of the poor farmers were just part of the "Green" guerrilla groups. The rest of them were trained insurgents and military troops, with backing from Russia and the United States. Granted, depending on the canonical outcome of ArmA 2, how Chernarus would be is entirely different, but it's not likely that all of the insurgents would've just laid down arms, and many would just return to their homes with their weapons.

 

In the interest of gameplay, limiting it to '10' golden AKs for the many thousands of DayZ players is a bad design decision. I mean, the actual number would probably be like 500, which seems like a lot. But if you consider there are many thousands of players at one time, and over a million copies have been sold, less than a thousand of them is an insignificant number.

I get how you're thinking, because if we went under the assumption that all of the stuff that's ever spawned in the game would've been at one point in the real world, then finding 500 golden AKs in a terrain that's only a couple hundred square kilometers would be odd, but across the entire board that's very few.

"DayZ has not followed that route"

I'll stop you right there. Dean specifically called his mod the "anti-game" because it doesn't follow normal genre conventions of balance or not making players frustrated, and yes, the game does "almost always takes everything to the most realistic extent possible within the limitations of the engine and software, almost completely disregarding gameplay." Even though we all know how bad KoS is, there's no spawn protection, for instance, and as I said before, the game goes to the effort of having projectiles affected by fall-off for guns, rather than simple hitscan weapons. They could add pretty basic vehicles in soon, but instead they're going all out to get a realistic simulator-level helicopter and very realistic car physics. There is no way you can argue DayZ is gamey, even the very zombies are realistic "virus" zombies rather than magical undead who rise from their graves and only die to headshots.

The whole morphine thing is a placeholder for their fixing of the medical system in the future. If DayZ was really taking that "gamey" route, then hell, blood bag use would be light-years easier, sights would just give you a flat "accuracy bonus", etc. The game takes into account factors such as exposure and disease, and there are plenty of items which aren't even "balanced" and are technically bloat. I think you'll find morphine giving unrealistic healing is the exception rather than the rule to DayZ's simulator nature.

And sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you meant up to 100 in every server, which would be fucking ridiculous. Anyway, on a server basis, I'm saying being able to find even 10 in the Chernarus wide area, if they were canon, would be unrealistic.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

"DayZ has not followed that route"

I'll stop you right there. Dean specifically called his mod the "anti-game" because it doesn't follow normal genre conventions of balance or not making players frustrated, and yes, the game does "almost always takes everything to the most realistic extent possible within the limitations of the engine and software, almost completely disregarding gameplay." Even though we all know how bad KoS is, there's no spawn protection, for instance, and as I said before, the game goes to the effort of having projectiles affected by fall-off for guns, rather than simple hitscan weapons. They could add pretty basic vehicles in soon, but instead they're going all out to get a realistic simulator-level helicopter and very realistic car physics. There is no way you can argue DayZ is gamey, even the very zombies are realistic "virus" zombies rather than magical undead who rise from their graves and only die to headshots.

The whole morphine thing is a placeholder for their fixing of the medical system in the future. If DayZ was really taking that "gamey" route, then hell, blood bag use would be light-years easier, sights would just give you a flat "accuracy bonus", etc. The game takes into account factors such as exposure and disease, and there are plenty of items which aren't even "balanced" and are technically bloat. I think you'll find morphine giving unrealistic healing is the exception rather than the rule to DayZ's simulator nature.

And sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you meant up to 100 in every server, which would be fucking ridiculous. Anyway, on a server basis, I'm saying being able to find even 10 in the Chernarus wide area, if they were canon, would be unrealistic.

I would never want there to be up to 100 per server. 1-2 per server at most, although with a loot management system with a limit of 100 there would probably none of them on almost every server, which is fair enough.

 

I should've clarified when I said "DayZ has not followed that route" and said "DayZ has not entirely followed that route". That could've changed the entire context of what I said, but regardless. I don't think DayZ is "gamey" in that it's like an RPG or FPS where you "level up" and everything has (or attempts to have) completely balanced stats. I'm just willing to go to the lengths of calling it a simulator, because they're doing more than just simplifying the wound system.

 

The simplification of calibers, while it does benefit good gameplay, is not something you'd find in real life, in reality there'd be 9x18mm and 7.62x54mmR and 5.45x39mm all over the place in an Eastern Bloc country, but we're not getting 9x18mm and probably not 54R or 5.45 for a while. And actually, with the most recent experimental updates, optics now decrease dispersion, for some reason. That's not to mention the different M4 stocks and handguards that have done so since the beginning of the game. Also, let's not forget the fact that you can attach any part on the fly, even if it would take some time or need a special mount (see Mosin LRS). In the interest of gameplay it's better, but that's not realistic (although I wouldn't be opposed to an animation playing for swapping out parts)

 

Dean has gone all over the place with what he's called DayZ. He calls it the "anti-game" because there's no set objectives, no quests, it's just an open sandbox where your only goal is to survive (and even that can be debated). However, he also loves the term "authenticity" over "realism" because he knows that you cannot just make everything as realistic as possible and have a good experience.

DayZ is more realistic than most other zombie games, but it's not a simulator.

[stielhandgranate 480]

You obviously didn't get it. It doesn't change thw metal just the cosmetic. The mosin isn't made out of green metal is it?

 

You are implying we should spray paint our guns gold. This defeats the idea of a rare ornate golden AKM.

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

"DayZ has not followed that route"

I'll stop you right there. Dean specifically called his mod the "anti-game" because it doesn't follow normal genre conventions of balance or not making players frustrated, and yes, the game does "almost always takes everything to the most realistic extent possible within the limitations of the engine and software, almost completely disregarding gameplay." Even though we all know how bad KoS is, there's no spawn protection, for instance, and as I said before, the game goes to the effort of having projectiles affected by fall-off for guns, rather than simple hitscan weapons. They could add pretty basic vehicles in soon, but instead they're going all out to get a realistic simulator-level helicopter and very realistic car physics. There is no way you can argue DayZ is gamey, even the very zombies are realistic "virus" zombies rather than magical undead who rise from their graves and only die to headshots.

The whole morphine thing is a placeholder for their fixing of the medical system in the future. If DayZ was really taking that "gamey" route, then hell, blood bag use would be light-years easier, sights would just give you a flat "accuracy bonus", etc. The game takes into account factors such as exposure and disease, and there are plenty of items which aren't even "balanced" and are technically bloat. I think you'll find morphine giving unrealistic healing is the exception rather than the rule to DayZ's simulator nature.

And sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you meant up to 100 in every server, which would be fucking ridiculous. Anyway, on a server basis, I'm saying being able to find even 10 in the Chernarus wide area, if they were canon, would be unrealistic.

Realistic?

So i guess i have a really small stomache irl? Cuass i have to eat 4 entire cans to get full on here and drink like an entire well or a whole 6-pack of sodas to not die every 10sec.

And getting shot will only make my vision go grey? And who needs hospitals when i can just eat more food to be perfectly fine?

Who ever heard of getting your entire torso blown off by a shotgun and actaully DIEING? Thats insain!

Yeah the aliens came and destroyed all the army's tanks and EVERY SINGLE CAR before the zombies came. They didn't touch a single building though.

I think i'll eat two entire bags of rice here...

Wait, why is there a perfect orange in here? This house has been abandoned for months. 

Man, i didn't know the military uses Reflective Bright-Colored backpacks! 

 

That's just what i can list off the top of my head. There's a ton of "Gamey" things in DayZ.

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

Now, before you throw a fit and yell; "THIS ISNT COD OR SOME FPS", just hear me out.

 

With the new loot management system coming at some point, any object the devs choose to limit will only be able to exist in the set quantity on any server. (although no word on how it will affect private hives exists, but I digress)

 

So, I was thinking, a good pioneer item for this new system would be;

 

An AKM with a gold plated metal parts

Those are some gold polished AK rifles (not sure if they're AKMs or AK47s) seized during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

 

As ridiculous as having gold-plated weaponry is, it seems to be very popular among different guerrilla or militia leaders across the globe. Hell, even ArmA 2 had an easter egg AKMS with gold plating.

 

Similar to the 1911 Engraved, the Gold-Plated AKM would function identically to the standard AKM (Fuck Far Cry 2's 100x durability AK) and could probably accept all of the parts and attachments (Tacticool Railed Gold AK with a Bipod anyone? Gibonez?)

 

There's nothing overpowered about having the Gold AK (in fact it would be more likely to expose you with its shiny colors) but it could be an awesome status symbol. I mean, being one of the 100 people in all of DayZ to have one would be pretty damn cool. It's not anything game changing like Thermal or NVG scopes, or DMRs, or GPMGs, or Rocket Launchers, etc, just a reskin of a pre-existing weapon. And they're very plausible for the game's setting.

 

Something like this would be a great way to enter into the new loot management system, so we could really see how well it plays out without adding major game altering items.

 

Opinions?

Well it seems someone beat me to this... 

I actaully played on a mod server months ago where the admin handed out a Gold AKS. Everyone on the server was obsessed with having it. I think it got destroyed eventually, but it showed the interesting situations that happen just Becuase of a rare item. It was basically be a huge Display of your Awesomeness to have stolen it. (I myself had it for awhile before being murdered). It's the type of thing i would love in the standalone.

As for it not functioning well, that's fine, it's more of a display item.

Other examples of this type of thing would be the C96 and such.

 

Also the AKs in the pic look like Zastava variants to me.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Well it seems someone beat me to this... 

I actaully played on a mod server months ago where the admin handed out a Gold AKS. Everyone on the server was obsessed with having it. I think it got destroyed eventually, but it showed the interesting situations that happen just Becuase of a rare item. It was basically be a huge Display of your Awesomeness to have stolen it. (I myself had it for awhile before being murdered). It's the type of thing i would love in the standalone.

As for it not functioning well, that's fine, it's more of a display item.

Other examples of this type of thing would be the C96 and such.

 

Also the AKs in the pic look like Zastava variants to me.

Yeah I think they're Zastava M70AB2s, but they're still essentially AK-47/AKM variants in operation.

 

Honestly I don't think any golden AK rifles should perform any differently than the regular one (better OR worse). It's just a thin layer of gold covering the externals, it wouldn't really affect the weapon's performance that much.

A Mauser C96 would be pretty cool but I don't know if they added it whether it would be something truly rare. It's not unique in the same sense as a 1911 Engraved is to the 1911 or a Golden AKM is to the regular AKM, it's just a standard firearm. I'm not saying there can't be completely unique firearms that have no "standard" variant, but I'd be hard pressed to accept most regular weapons being put on the loot management system for the unique factor alone.

[bobotype3334 160]

I would never want there to be up to 100 per server. 1-2 per server at most, although with a loot management system with a limit of 100 there would probably none of them on almost every server, which is fair enough.

 

I should've clarified when I said "DayZ has not followed that route" and said "DayZ has not entirely followed that route". That could've changed the entire context of what I said, but regardless. I don't think DayZ is "gamey" in that it's like an RPG or FPS where you "level up" and everything has (or attempts to have) completely balanced stats. I'm just willing to go to the lengths of calling it a simulator, because they're doing more than just simplifying the wound system.

 

The simplification of calibers, while it does benefit good gameplay, is not something you'd find in real life, in reality there'd be 9x18mm and 7.62x54mmR and 5.45x39mm all over the place in an Eastern Bloc country, but we're not getting 9x18mm and probably not 54R or 5.45 for a while. And actually, with the most recent experimental updates, optics now decrease dispersion, for some reason. That's not to mention the different M4 stocks and handguards that have done so since the beginning of the game. Also, let's not forget the fact that you can attach any part on the fly, even if it would take some time or need a special mount (see Mosin LRS). In the interest of gameplay it's better, but that's not realistic (although I wouldn't be opposed to an animation playing for swapping out parts)

 

Dean has gone all over the place with what he's called DayZ. He calls it the "anti-game" because there's no set objectives, no quests, it's just an open sandbox where your only goal is to survive (and even that can be debated). However, he also loves the term "authenticity" over "realism" because he knows that you cannot just make everything as realistic as possible and have a good experience.

DayZ is more realistic than most other zombie games, but it's not a simulator.

"The simplification of calibers, while it does benefit good gameplay, is not something you'd find in real life, in reality there'd be 9x18mm and 7.62x54mmR and 5.45x39mm all over the place in an Eastern Bloc country"

Yes. And you wouldn't find a gold plated AKM in an Eastern Bloc country either, would you? We can rationalize the calibers with foreign military intervention, which makes sense in a zombie outbreak.

Anyway, you can find certain ammunition like 9x18mm. For Makarovs, I'm pretty sure. And you said yourself they haven't got around to doing it yet, which means they're going to do it, so what's your issue there?

DayZ IS in essence a simulator. Rocket just knows if he explicitly says "simulator", he might lose an audience. This isn't call of duty where weapon ports are on the wrong side of guns or you fire from an ammo "pool". This is as realistic as you get. Morphine and optics are only two things you've pointed out to me that were actually unrealistic. Dispersion is affected by weapon kick so grips decreasing dispersion makes sense, doesn't it? Crafting is coming in depth, implying weapon modifications are going to take more time. A lot of your problems with realism seem to be more with the fact they're placeholders for the final game because this is in fact an alpha.

 

 

because he knows that you cannot just make everything as realistic as possible and have a good experience.

But we've already covered this. He knows this, and doesn't give a shit. Realism has been the priority over "good experience". This is common knowledge in the community, friend.

[bobotype3334 160]

Realistic?

So i guess i have a really small stomache irl? Cuass i have to eat 4 entire cans to get full on here and drink like an entire well or a whole 6-pack of sodas to not die every 10sec.

And getting shot will only make my vision go grey? And who needs hospitals when i can just eat more food to be perfectly fine?

Who ever heard of getting your entire torso blown off by a shotgun and actaully DIEING? Thats insain!

Yeah the aliens came and destroyed all the army's tanks and EVERY SINGLE CAR before the zombies came. They didn't touch a single building though.

I think i'll eat two entire bags of rice here...

Wait, why is there a perfect orange in here? This house has been abandoned for months. 

Man, i didn't know the military uses Reflective Bright-Colored backpacks! 

 

That's just what i can list off the top of my head. There's a ton of "Gamey" things in DayZ.

"And getting shot will only make my vision go grey?"

Yes. it will only make your vision go grey, and not cause shock and bleeding at all like it does ingame, amirite?

"And who needs hospitals when i can just eat more food to be perfectly fine?"

Yes, you don't need to bandage yourself and get blood transfusions, that's definitely not a feature of DayZ.

" a whole 6-pack of sodas to not die every 10sec"

Yes, I'm sure you die every ten seconds from thirst in the game.

"Wait, why is there a perfect orange in here? This house has been abandoned for months"

Because DayZ isn't set day-z after the apocalypse at all?

"Man, i didn't know the military uses Reflective Bright-Colored backpacks!"

News update: Taloon backpack is now called "military backpack"

"I think I'll eat two bags of rice here"

Gosh, yeah, it isn't possibly because early access games have minor issues, it just must be because the developers HATE realism.

"Yeah the aliens came and destroyed all the army's tanks and EVERY SINGLE CAR before the zombies came"

Yeah I see where you're coming from, it's not like the GAME IS IN ALPHA AND HAS UNRELEASED CONTENT

You're being very, very stupid. Stop it. And work on your abysmal English skills.

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by bobotype3334

[Chaingunfighter 917]

"The simplification of calibers, while it does benefit good gameplay, is not something you'd find in real life, in reality there'd be 9x18mm and 7.62x54mmR and 5.45x39mm all over the place in an Eastern Bloc country"

Yes. And you wouldn't find a gold plated AKM in an Eastern Bloc country either, would you? We can rationalize the calibers with foreign military intervention, which makes sense in a zombie outbreak.

Anyway, you can find certain ammunition like 9x18mm. For Makarovs, I'm pretty sure. And you said yourself they haven't got around to doing it yet, which means they're going to do it, so what's your issue there?

DayZ IS in essence a simulator. Rocket just knows if he explicitly says "simulator", he might lose an audience. This isn't call of duty where weapon ports are on the wrong side of guns or you fire from an ammo "pool". This is as realistic as you get. Morphine and optics are only two things you've pointed out to me that were actually unrealistic. Dispersion is affected by weapon kick so grips decreasing dispersion makes sense, doesn't it? Crafting is coming in depth, implying weapon modifications are going to take more time. A lot of your problems with realism seem to be more with the fact they're placeholders for the final game because this is in fact an alpha.

 

But we've already covered this. He knows this, and doesn't give a shit. Realism has been the priority over "good experience". This is common knowledge in the community, friend.

Going to have to completely disagree with you, then. I'm not able to work on a hunch that someone is just "being quiet" about it, I'm taking what Rocket, who has been very open, is saying.

He's not catering to any crowd, he's making the game that HE wants to make. It favors realism in most cases, but that is not the complete trend, there are plenty of unrealistic things that are completely intentional and aren't just "temporary" or "waiting to be expanded on".

 

Now to specifically address you.

 

Dispersion is affected by a multitude of factors, but the fact that the weapon kicks back on you because you weren't holding it steady has nothing to do with the bullet in motion. Sure, the overall power of the bullet/gunpowder and weapon itself do affect dispersion, but throwing on a MagPul handguard will not do anything but make it more comfortable to hold and maneuver. I'd rather them just make using "better" quality handguards/grips increase your weapon maneuverability if they really need to do anything other than look cool (foregrips I can support though).

Then there's the realism issue of all of the custom M4 parts being there to begin with. I mean, AR-15s are everywhere and I'm not going to argue over the realistic placement of items, but if the game was supposedly realistic in content then the MagPul stuff and the CQB stock wouldn't be there. The standard parts, optics, and RIS are fine, though. Again, this issue (which isn't an issue) does not bother me at all, but if the game were trying to strictly adhere to realism, tricked out M4s would not be a common sight, at all.

 

You could very well find a Gold plated AK in an Eastern European country. It wouldn't be common, but they're definitely there. Tricked-out AKs in places where the AK still sees heavy use are just like tricked out AR-15s in the United States, they love them, as impractical as they can be. Sure, they're rarer, because there's not as much money to go around and the general availability is lower, but they exist, and it's more than just "one or two".

 

Call of Duty is a very unrealistic shooter, I'll agree. DayZ is much more realistic, but even with specific weapons there are some things wrong with DayZ's weapons. The Mosin 9130 has a bent bolt, which was utilized for the PU-scope variants. However, the Mosin comes as standard without the PU scope ingame, and most people use the LRS, so it's super anachronistic. Not impossible, per say, but it's very unrealistic.

The SKS also spawns without a bayonet, which is done to benefit gameplay, but almost every SKS is standard with a bayonet.

And don't get me started on the MP5-K, it has comes with a PDW-styled stock, but that can be removed incredibly easily, and underneath it is a sling port that only exists on the standard MP5K, which should make it impossible for the PDW stock to be mounted on it. It also has a really weird rail setup even though rail mounts aren't too common. And the pronged flash hider that's not yet in-game is also a nonexistant type attachment for the MP5K (it seems more like a UMP flash hider).

 

And when I was talking about caliber simplification, I actually mean that weapon calibers have been intentionally simplified in order to benefit gameplay rather than adhere to realism.

The chances of us getting 9x18mm are incredibly slim, because .380 ACP which they added as a replacement is incredibly similar in ballistics and is chambered in most weapons available in 9x18mm, as well as many more. Why did they add .380 ACP? Because you can do a lot more with it, hence why the Makarov ingame is .380 ACP and the PM73 RAK is as well, even though the only real common versions are the 9x18mm ones.

5.45x39mm and 7.62x54mmR are Russian calibers that are incredibly common in Eastern Europe (and all over, really). 7.62x54R is the Mosin's real ammo, even though it shoots 7.62x51 NATO in the game, and 5.45x39 is used in the AK-74 and its variants. 7.62x54R is a possibility at the moment, but 5.45x39 isn't planned, which means no AK-74 or AKS-74U for a while, even though those are typically the most common guns in Eastern militaries.

The AK-74M we had was subsidized by the AK-101, which is a 5.56x45mm export variant that had very few sales, but it was added because they wanted a use for the model without having to add more ammo types. In reality the AK-74M would be a much better choice, but to benefit gameplay it's not in (yet).

More likely than not we'll get the 7.62x39mm replacements for different AK-74 variants, like the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U, which is nearly identical, but not nearly as common. Still unrealistic.

 

 

And what about the other guns?

• The AWC Amphibian S (Amphibia S) is an internally suppressed variant of the Ruger MK2 that is really only used by Navy SEALs (in extremely limited quantities) and rich gun owners. It's highly unlikely that even the richest of Chernarussian farmers would have it, the CDF has no real reason to use them, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me a SEAL team just happened to enter Chernarus with a foreign intervention team, only to use them and then lose them. And even if that were to be convincing, there'd have to be like one of them in the entire game, and other common SEAL weapons like the HK-416, P226, and MK23 SOCOM would have to spawn.
• The AK-101, for the same reasons as mentioned previously in the post, is an odd weapon.
• The Blaser B95 (Blaze 95) is an expensive over/under hunting rifle that's unique in the fact that both barrels can fire separate calibers. However, it costs many thousands of dollars and is a relatively rare weapon on the market. I honestly doubt many Chernarussians would buy one of these when they have much more affordable weapons around.
• The Colt Python (Magnum) is similar to the Blaser B95 in that it's just a really expensive .357 Magnum revolver that is no longer in production. Unlike some of the other guns, a few of these are plausible, but they'd still have to be super rare, which cannot be done to accommodate gameplay.
• The FNX-45 is a very new derivative of the FNP series of handguns. In fact, this specific model came into public production in 2012. While it's not entirely impossible that some FNP models could've been brought to Chernarus, it's highly unlikely considering how new to the market they are. That's not to mention the aftermarket MRD sight, which is rare itself.
• The Thompson G2 Contender (LongHorn) is not something you see too often outside of the United States. Granted, they are growing in popularity, but they haven't really grown to any major use outside of the United States yet.
• The MP5-K itself is quite a weird choice. It's not the worst weapon and the MP5 series is certainly internationally popular, but the MP5-K isn't very common because it was intended to be a compact SMG for concealment and for vehicle/aircraft crews. It can't mount a suppressor without modification and rails aren't easily added either, so generally it falls short of other models like the MP5A3 or even the SD variants.
• The PM-73, as I addressed earlier, is not common at all. While the PM-63 (9x18mm) variants are everywhere, the export variant in .380 was pretty unpopular. Still added to accommodate gameplay.

There's plenty of other unrealistic stuff I could list off. Nearly all of the things that I listed don't bother me at all, but they clearly don't adhere to realism and most of them are intentional and probably will not be changed.

 

 

"And getting shot will only make my vision go grey?"

Yes. it will only make your vision go grey, and not cause shock and bleeding at all like it does ingame, amirite?

"And who needs hospitals when i can just eat more food to be perfectly fine?"

Yes, you don't need to bandage yourself and get blood transfusions, that's definitely not a feature of DayZ.

" a whole 6-pack of sodas to not die every 10sec"

Yes, I'm sure you die every ten seconds from thirst in the game.

"Wait, why is there a perfect orange in here? This house has been abandoned for months"

Because DayZ isn't set day-z after the apocalypse at all?

"Man, i didn't know the military uses Reflective Bright-Colored backpacks!"

News update: Taloon backpack is now called "military backpack"

"I think I'll eat two bags of rice here"

Gosh, yeah, it isn't possibly because early access games have minor issues, it just must be because the developers HATE realism.

"Yeah the aliens came and destroyed all the army's tanks and EVERY SINGLE CAR before the zombies came"

Yeah I see where you're coming from, it's not like the GAME IS IN ALPHA AND HAS UNRELEASED CONTENT

You're being very, very stupid. Stop it. And work on your abysmal English skills.

 

"Yes, you don't need to bandage yourself and get blood transfusions, that's definitely not a feature of DayZ"

You have to bandage yourself to stop bleeding, but otherwise just eating a bunch of food will still bring you back up to full health. Using blood transfusions just restores a lot of blood more quickly.

"Because DayZ isn't set day-z after the apocalypse at all?"

Then how come some buildings are cracked or in disrepair beyond belief and the cars lying around look like they've been rusting around for years? Did every car get bombed out or catch on fire? The rate of apocalyptic disorder is completely inconsistent.,

"News update: Taloon backpack is now called "military backpack""

And that's the question, why? If it's implied that they were military issue then why do all of the colorful variants exist? Taloon backpack was a better name.

"Gosh, yeah, it isn't possibly because early access gamess have minor issues, it just must be because the developers HATE realism"

Now you're going too far. Nowhere have I nor he implied that the developers "hate" realism. You're arguing that they're strictly adhering to realism in practically every case possible and that everything unrealistic is just "temporary", and also that because it's more realistic than other games that it makes it a simulator, and we disagree (although the merit of his arguments is rather poor, I may add). But I'm not sure exactly what they're going to change about eating the rice, it's already implemented so it's not like they'll redo the entire model or change the quantity, which seems set.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[bobotype3334 160]

Going to have to completely disagree with you, then. I'm not able to work on a hunch that someone is just "being quiet" about it, I'm taking what Rocket, who has been very open, is saying.

He's not catering to any crowd, he's making the game that HE wants to make. It favors realism in most cases, but that is not the complete trend, there are plenty of unrealistic things that are completely intentional and aren't just "temporary" or "waiting to be expanded on".

He never said he was making some of the things you listed completely intentionally, that's just putting words in his mouth.

And when you're listing weapon inaccuracies which don't change the gameplay in any way, such as the Mosin bolt anachronism, they are CLEARLY not intentional, and definitely not a result of concession to gameplay over realism. Maybe they are temporary, maybe they only had certain models and stuff on call. Doesn't mean they won't be changing things down the track.

 

Now to specifically address you.

 

Dispersion is affected by a multitude of factors, but the fact that the weapon kicks back on you because you weren't holding it steady has nothing to do with the bullet in motion. Sure, the overall power of the bullet/gunpowder and weapon itself do affect dispersion, but throwing on a MagPul handguard will not do anything but make it more comfortable to hold and maneuver. I'd rather them just make using "better" quality handguards/grips increase your weapon maneuverability if they really need to do anything other than look cool (foregrips I can support though). But wouldn't dispersion increase if you were shooting without a proper grip and kickback made the gun move around more? The steadiness of the gun increases the chance of the bullet firing in a straight line, correct?

Then there's the realism issue of all of the custom M4 parts being there to begin with. I mean, AR-15s are everywhere and I'm not going to argue over the realistic placement of items, but if the game was supposedly realistic in content then the MagPul stuff and the CQB stock wouldn't be there. The standard parts, optics, and RIS are fine, though. Again, this issue (which isn't an issue) does not bother me at all, but if the game were trying to strictly adhere to realism, tricked out M4s would not be a common sight, at all.

Read:

 

You could very well find a Gold plated AK in an Eastern European country. It wouldn't be common, but they're definitely there. Tricked-out AKs in places where the AK still sees heavy use are just like tricked out AR-15s in the United States, they love them, as impractical as they can be. Sure, they're rarer, because there's not as much money to go around and the general availability is lower, but they exist, and it's more than just "one or two". And Chernarus is not the United States, which everyone with their headcanon seems to believe. It's not even the Middle East, which is an oil-rich region where a lot of money changes hands. This is an Eastern European area which is too poor to warrant such things, and if you're using the "left over from ARMA" argument then such guns would have been confiscated or sold to buy a plow or something. You would be extremely lucky to find even "one or two", and that's already making the assumption that ARMA canon is even in the same timeline as Dayz. Stop applying your headcanon to the game's back story.

 

Call of Duty is a very unrealistic shooter, I'll agree. DayZ is much more realistic, but even with specific weapons there are some things wrong with DayZ's weapons. The Mosin 9130 has a bent bolt, which was utilized for the PU-scope variants. However, the Mosin comes as standard without the PU scope ingame, and most people use the LRS, so it's super anachronistic. Not impossible, per say, but it's very unrealistic. That's an inaccuracy you're listing, not a concession of gameplay over realism. They didn't give a bent bolt Mosin to make gameplay better, it's just a mistake. They are striving for realism. 

The SKS also spawns without a bayonet, which is done to benefit gameplay, but almost every SKS is standard with a bayonet. Nearly all guns spawn without magazines, too; but one can't say it's done to benefit gameplay, in fact it does the reverse. They did it to give the impression that weapons have fallen apart or been scattered while disassembled.

And don't get me started on the MP5-K, it has comes with a PDW-styled stock, but that can be removed incredibly easily, and underneath it is a sling port that only exists on the standard MP5K, which should make it impossible for the PDW stock to be mounted on it. It also has a really weird rail setup even though rail mounts aren't too common. And the pronged flash hider that's not yet in-game is also a nonexistant type attachment for the MP5K (it seems more like a UMP flash hider).Once again, you're either listing inaccuracies or placeholder mechanisms, not concessions to gameplay over realism. "Not too common" means nothing here. Flash hider is just, again, an inaccuracy, not a shiny gold gun.

 

And when I was talking about caliber simplification, I actually mean that weapon calibers have been intentionally simplified in order to benefit gameplay rather than adhere to realism.

The chances of us getting 9x18mm are incredibly slim, because .380 ACP which they added as a replacement is incredibly similar in ballistics and is chambered in most weapons available in 9x18mm, as well as many more. Why did they add .380 ACP? Because you can do a lot more with it, hence why the Makarov ingame is .380 ACP But the Makarov uses 9x18mm, read the weapon description, it's just an ALPHA PLACEHOLDER and the PM73 RAK is as well, even though the only real common versions are the 9x18mm ones.

5.45x39mm and 7.62x54mmR are Russian calibers that are incredibly common in Eastern Europe (and all over, really). 7.62x54R is the Mosin's real ammo, even though it shoots 7.62x51 NATO in the game, and 5.45x39 is used in the AK-74 and its variants. 7.62x54R is a possibility at the moment, but 5.45x39 isn't planned, which means no AK-74 or AKS-74U for a while, even though those are typically the most common guns in Eastern militaries.

The AK-74M we had was subsidized by the AK-101, which is a 5.56x45mm export variant that had very few sales, but it was added because they wanted a use for the model without having to add more ammo types. In reality the AK-74M would be a much better choice, but to benefit gameplay it's not in (yet). Exactly, yet. it's not a gameplay thing, they're just WORKING ON IT.

More likely than not we'll get the 7.62x39mm replacements for different AK-74 variants, like the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U, which is nearly identical, but not nearly as common. Still unrealistic. Except you can't list something as unrealistic they haven't even done yet.

 

 

And what about the other guns?

• The AWC Amphibian S (Amphibia S) is an internally suppressed variant of the Ruger MK2 that is really only used by Navy SEALs (in extremely limited quantities) and rich gun owners. It's highly unlikely that even the richest of Chernarussian farmers would have it, the CDF has no real reason to use them, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me a SEAL team just happened to enter Chernarus with a foreign intervention team, only to use them and then lose them. And even if that were to be convincing, there'd have to be like one of them in the entire game, and other common SEAL weapons like the HK-416, P226, and MK23 SOCOM would have to spawn.
• The AK-101, for the same reasons as mentioned previously in the post, is an odd weapon.
• The Blaser B95 (Blaze 95) is an expensive over/under hunting rifle that's unique in the fact that both barrels can fire separate calibers. However, it costs many thousands of dollars and is a relatively rare weapon on the market. I honestly doubt many Chernarussians would buy one of these when they have much more affordable weapons around.
• The Colt Python (Magnum) is similar to the Blaser B95 in that it's just a really expensive .357 Magnum revolver that is no longer in production. Unlike some of the other guns, a few of these are plausible, but they'd still have to be super rare, which cannot be done to accommodate gameplay.
• The FNX-45 is a very new derivative of the FNP series of handguns. In fact, this specific model came into public production in 2012. While it's not entirely impossible that some FNP models could've been brought to Chernarus, it's highly unlikely considering how new to the market they are. That's not to mention the aftermarket MRD sight, which is rare itself.
• The Thompson G2 Contender (LongHorn) is not something you see too often outside of the United States. Granted, they are growing in popularity, but they haven't really grown to any major use outside of the United States yet.
• The MP5-K itself is quite a weird choice. It's not the worst weapon and the MP5 series is certainly internationally popular, but the MP5-K isn't very common because it was intended to be a compact SMG for concealment and for vehicle/aircraft crews. It can't mount a suppressor without modification and rails aren't easily added either, so generally it falls short of other models like the MP5A3 or even the SD variants.
• The PM-73, as I addressed earlier, is not common at all. While the PM-63 (9x18mm) variants are everywhere, the export variant in .380 was pretty unpopular. Still added to accommodate gameplay.

There's plenty of other unrealistic stuff I could list off. Nearly all of the things that I listed don't bother me at all, but they clearly don't adhere to realism and most of them are intentional and probably will not be changed.

But there isn't plenty of other unrealistic stuff you could list off. Those are inaccuracies, not gameplay concessions over realism. They will patch them as people complain. This is an alpha. You've only listed weapon inaccuracies and you can bet that if people make complaints they will change some of these things in the interest of realism, unless they can't be bothered.

 

"Yes, you don't need to bandage yourself and get blood transfusions, that's definitely not a feature of DayZ"

You have to bandage yourself to stop bleeding, but otherwise just eating a bunch of food will still bring you back up to full health. Using blood transfusions just restores a lot of blood more quickly.

And what's to be remembered in this situation once again is this game is in alpha. They're going to fill in the gaps once they get time. Eating also doesn't stop unconsciousness. Please stop trying to defend this guy; he didn't think before he wrote anything, he was just looking to get some "sarcastic comment shut down" beans.

"Because DayZ isn't set day-z after the apocalypse at all?"

Then how come some buildings are cracked or in disrepair beyond belief and the cars lying around look like they've been rusting around for years? Did every car get bombed out or catch on fire? The rate of apocalyptic disorder is completely inconsistent.,

It makes complete sense if you consider all the working-order cars were driven out of Chernarus by survivors fleeing the countryside; in a poor farming community working cars are  kind of uncommon already. The buildings are cracked and in disrepair for the same reason, nobody employed in upkeep, or even no inhabitants some of the time. Here's some pictures of locations in Czechoslovakia which exist without any apocalypses right now, thanks to the Russians invading, building huge pieces of infrastructure which were never used, and leaving them to be abandoned. The apocalypse just contributed to the general shitty look of the place. Rusty cars? Farmers don't splash out on Armorall.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/28/article-2513733-19A6DD2800000578-688_964x723.jpg 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/28/article-2513733-19A6DA8C00000578-207_964x648.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46991000/jpg/_46991488_paulkaye-ironcurtainbybike-13.jpghttp://urbexzone.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/16143_229734048487_227803708487_4307979_3645574_n.jpg?w=614

http://www.praguepost.com/images/acrous/palach-house-1.jpg

"News update: Taloon backpack is now called "military backpack""

And that's the question, why? If it's implied that they were military issue then why do all of the colorful variants exist? Taloon backpack was a better name. I WAS BEING SARCASTIC. They aren't. Taloon and Mountain are both shiny, but neither of them are military, which is what I was pointing out as to his criticism that the military issues "shiny backpacks".

"Gosh, yeah, it isn't possibly because early access gamess have minor issues, it just must be because the developers HATE realism"

Now you're going too far. Nowhere have I nor he implied that the developers "hate" realism. You're arguing that they're strictly adhering to realism in practically every case possible and that everything unrealistic is just "temporary", and also that because it's more realistic than other games that it makes it a simulator, and we disagree (although the merit of his arguments is rather poor, I may add). But I'm not sure exactly what they're going to change about eating the rice, it's already implemented so it's not like they'll redo the entire model or change the quantity, which seems set. I think you might want to take him up on going too far, in that case; I'm only working at his level so he can understand. They're working on stomach capacity and that whole "eating" thing and aren't done with it yet, they don't have to change quantity or model, and that's not where the realism problem is anyway.

Edited August 2, 2014 by bobotype3334

[Chaingunfighter 917]

 

Going to have to completely disagree with you, then. I'm not able to work on a hunch that someone is just "being quiet" about it, I'm taking what Rocket, who has been very open, is saying.

He's not catering to any crowd, he's making the game that HE wants to make. It favors realism in most cases, but that is not the complete trend, there are plenty of unrealistic things that are completely intentional and aren't just "temporary" or "waiting to be expanded on".

He never said he was making some of the things you listed completely intentionally, that's just putting words in his mouth.

And when you're listing weapon inaccuracies which don't change the gameplay in any way, such as the Mosin bolt anachronism, they are CLEARLY not intentional, and definitely not a result of concession to gameplay over realism. Maybe they are temporary, maybe they only had certain models and stuff on call. Doesn't mean they won't be changing things down the track.

 

Now to specifically address you.

 

Dispersion is affected by a multitude of factors, but the fact that the weapon kicks back on you because you weren't holding it steady has nothing to do with the bullet in motion. Sure, the overall power of the bullet/gunpowder and weapon itself do affect dispersion, but throwing on a MagPul handguard will not do anything but make it more comfortable to hold and maneuver. I'd rather them just make using "better" quality handguards/grips increase your weapon maneuverability if they really need to do anything other than look cool (foregrips I can support though). But wouldn't dispersion increase if you were shooting without a proper grip and kickback made the gun move around more? The steadiness of the gun increases the chance of the bullet firing in a straight line, correct?

Then there's the realism issue of all of the custom M4 parts being there to begin with. I mean, AR-15s are everywhere and I'm not going to argue over the realistic placement of items, but if the game was supposedly realistic in content then the MagPul stuff and the CQB stock wouldn't be there. The standard parts, optics, and RIS are fine, though. Again, this issue (which isn't an issue) does not bother me at all, but if the game were trying to strictly adhere to realism, tricked out M4s would not be a common sight, at all.

Read:

 

You could very well find a Gold plated AK in an Eastern European country. It wouldn't be common, but they're definitely there. Tricked-out AKs in places where the AK still sees heavy use are just like tricked out AR-15s in the United States, they love them, as impractical as they can be. Sure, they're rarer, because there's not as much money to go around and the general availability is lower, but they exist, and it's more than just "one or two". And Chernarus is not the United States, which everyone with their headcanon seems to believe. It's not even the Middle East, which is an oil-rich region where a lot of money changes hands. This is an Eastern European area which is too poor to warrant such things, and if you're using the "left over from ARMA" argument then such guns would have been confiscated or sold to buy a plow or something. You would be extremely lucky to find even "one or two", and that's already making the assumption that ARMA canon is even in the same timeline as Dayz. Stop applying your headcanon to the game's back story.

 

Call of Duty is a very unrealistic shooter, I'll agree. DayZ is much more realistic, but even with specific weapons there are some things wrong with DayZ's weapons. The Mosin 9130 has a bent bolt, which was utilized for the PU-scope variants. However, the Mosin comes as standard without the PU scope ingame, and most people use the LRS, so it's super anachronistic. Not impossible, per say, but it's very unrealistic. That's an inaccuracy you're listing, not a concession of gameplay over realism. They didn't give a bent bolt Mosin to make gameplay better, it's just a mistake. They are striving for realism. 

The SKS also spawns without a bayonet, which is done to benefit gameplay, but almost every SKS is standard with a bayonet. Nearly all guns spawn without magazines, too; but one can't say it's done to benefit gameplay, in fact it does the reverse. They did it to give the impression that weapons have fallen apart or been scattered while disassembled.

And don't get me started on the MP5-K, it has comes with a PDW-styled stock, but that can be removed incredibly easily, and underneath it is a sling port that only exists on the standard MP5K, which should make it impossible for the PDW stock to be mounted on it. It also has a really weird rail setup even though rail mounts aren't too common. And the pronged flash hider that's not yet in-game is also a nonexistant type attachment for the MP5K (it seems more like a UMP flash hider).Once again, you're either listing inaccuracies or placeholder mechanisms, not concessions to gameplay over realism. "Not too common" means nothing here. Flash hider is just, again, an inaccuracy, not a shiny gold gun.

 

And when I was talking about caliber simplification, I actually mean that weapon calibers have been intentionally simplified in order to benefit gameplay rather than adhere to realism.

The chances of us getting 9x18mm are incredibly slim, because .380 ACP which they added as a replacement is incredibly similar in ballistics and is chambered in most weapons available in 9x18mm, as well as many more. Why did they add .380 ACP? Because you can do a lot more with it, hence why the Makarov ingame is .380 ACP But the Makarov uses 9x18mm, read the weapon description, it's just an ALPHA PLACEHOLDER and the PM73 RAK is as well, even though the only real common versions are the 9x18mm ones.

5.45x39mm and 7.62x54mmR are Russian calibers that are incredibly common in Eastern Europe (and all over, really). 7.62x54R is the Mosin's real ammo, even though it shoots 7.62x51 NATO in the game, and 5.45x39 is used in the AK-74 and its variants. 7.62x54R is a possibility at the moment, but 5.45x39 isn't planned, which means no AK-74 or AKS-74U for a while, even though those are typically the most common guns in Eastern militaries.

The AK-74M we had was subsidized by the AK-101, which is a 5.56x45mm export variant that had very few sales, but it was added because they wanted a use for the model without having to add more ammo types. In reality the AK-74M would be a much better choice, but to benefit gameplay it's not in (yet). Exactly, yet. it's not a gameplay thing, they're just WORKING ON IT.

More likely than not we'll get the 7.62x39mm replacements for different AK-74 variants, like the AKMSU instead of the AKS-74U, which is nearly identical, but not nearly as common. Still unrealistic. Except you can't list something as unrealistic they haven't even done yet.

 

 

And what about the other guns?

• The AWC Amphibian S (Amphibia S) is an internally suppressed variant of the Ruger MK2 that is really only used by Navy SEALs (in extremely limited quantities) and rich gun owners. It's highly unlikely that even the richest of Chernarussian farmers would have it, the CDF has no real reason to use them, and you'd be hard pressed to convince me a SEAL team just happened to enter Chernarus with a foreign intervention team, only to use them and then lose them. And even if that were to be convincing, there'd have to be like one of them in the entire game, and other common SEAL weapons like the HK-416, P226, and MK23 SOCOM would have to spawn.
• The AK-101, for the same reasons as mentioned previously in the post, is an odd weapon.
• The Blaser B95 (Blaze 95) is an expensive over/under hunting rifle that's unique in the fact that both barrels can fire separate calibers. However, it costs many thousands of dollars and is a relatively rare weapon on the market. I honestly doubt many Chernarussians would buy one of these when they have much more affordable weapons around.
• The Colt Python (Magnum) is similar to the Blaser B95 in that it's just a really expensive .357 Magnum revolver that is no longer in production. Unlike some of the other guns, a few of these are plausible, but they'd still have to be super rare, which cannot be done to accommodate gameplay.
• The FNX-45 is a very new derivative of the FNP series of handguns. In fact, this specific model came into public production in 2012. While it's not entirely impossible that some FNP models could've been brought to Chernarus, it's highly unlikely considering how new to the market they are. That's not to mention the aftermarket MRD sight, which is rare itself.
• The Thompson G2 Contender (LongHorn) is not something you see too often outside of the United States. Granted, they are growing in popularity, but they haven't really grown to any major use outside of the United States yet.
• The MP5-K itself is quite a weird choice. It's not the worst weapon and the MP5 series is certainly internationally popular, but the MP5-K isn't very common because it was intended to be a compact SMG for concealment and for vehicle/aircraft crews. It can't mount a suppressor without modification and rails aren't easily added either, so generally it falls short of other models like the MP5A3 or even the SD variants.
• The PM-73, as I addressed earlier, is not common at all. While the PM-63 (9x18mm) variants are everywhere, the export variant in .380 was pretty unpopular. Still added to accommodate gameplay.

There's plenty of other unrealistic stuff I could list off. Nearly all of the things that I listed don't bother me at all, but they clearly don't adhere to realism and most of them are intentional and probably will not be changed.

But there isn't plenty of other unrealistic stuff you could list off. Those are inaccuracies, not gameplay concessions over realism. They will patch them as people complain. This is an alpha. You've only listed weapon inaccuracies and you can bet that if people make complaints they will change some of these things in the interest of realism, unless they can't be bothered.

 

"Yes, you don't need to bandage yourself and get blood transfusions, that's definitely not a feature of DayZ"

You have to bandage yourself to stop bleeding, but otherwise just eating a bunch of food will still bring you back up to full health. Using blood transfusions just restores a lot of blood more quickly.

And what's to be remembered in this situation once again is this game is in alpha. They're going to fill in the gaps once they get time. Eating also doesn't stop unconsciousness. Please stop trying to defend this guy; he didn't think before he wrote anything, he was just looking to get some "sarcastic comment shut down" beans.

"Because DayZ isn't set day-z after the apocalypse at all?"

Then how come some buildings are cracked or in disrepair beyond belief and the cars lying around look like they've been rusting around for years? Did every car get bombed out or catch on fire? The rate of apocalyptic disorder is completely inconsistent.,

It makes complete sense if you consider all the working-order cars were driven out of Chernarus by survivors fleeing the countryside; in a poor farming community working cars are  kind of uncommon already. The buildings are cracked and in disrepair for the same reason, nobody employed in upkeep, or even no inhabitants some of the time. Here's some pictures of locations in Czechoslovakia which exist without any apocalypses right now, thanks to the Russians invading, building huge pieces of infrastructure which were never used, and leaving them to be abandoned. The apocalypse just contributed to the general shitty look of the place. Rusty cars? Farmers don't splash out on Armorall.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/28/article-2513733-19A6DD2800000578-688_964x723.jpg 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/28/article-2513733-19A6DA8C00000578-207_964x648.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46991000/jpg/_46991488_paulkaye-ironcurtainbybike-13.jpghttp://urbexzone.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/16143_229734048487_227803708487_4307979_3645574_n.jpg?w=614

http://www.praguepost.com/images/acrous/palach-house-1.jpg

"News update: Taloon backpack is now called "military backpack""

And that's the question, why? If it's implied that they were military issue then why do all of the colorful variants exist? Taloon backpack was a better name. I WAS BEING SARCASTIC. They aren't. Taloon and Mountain are both shiny, but neither of them are military, which is what I was pointing out as to his criticism that the military issues "shiny backpacks".

"Gosh, yeah, it isn't possibly because early access gamess have minor issues, it just must be because the developers HATE realism"

Now you're going too far. Nowhere have I nor he implied that the developers "hate" realism. You're arguing that they're strictly adhering to realism in practically every case possible and that everything unrealistic is just "temporary", and also that because it's more realistic than other games that it makes it a simulator, and we disagree (although the merit of his arguments is rather poor, I may add). But I'm not sure exactly what they're going to change about eating the rice, it's already implemented so it's not like they'll redo the entire model or change the quantity, which seems set. I think you might want to take him up on going too far, in that case; I'm only working at his level so he can understand. They're working on stomach capacity and that whole "eating" thing and aren't done with it yet, they don't have to change quantity or model, and that's not where the realism problem is anyway.

 

But the Makarov uses 9x18mm, read the weapon description, it's just an ALPHA PLACEHOLDER

They're not adding 9x18mm Makarov, it's not temporary, it was a deliberate design decision.

 

"It was decided there will not be two 9mm bullets in the game and the 'realism' argument was not compelling in our discussions but the gameplay argument was. We reached a compromise to avoid confusion, we're adding 380 Auto. Baikal made a Makarov pistol in 380 and there was a version of the RAK in that caliber too but so help me the first person who says 'b-but that's not probable'.

This is what you're getting for now. Deal. Its a matter of a few lines of text in a cfg so some day when the game is open for modding you can change the 380 to 9mmM and your immersion will be restored and the world will be at peace." -- Chris Torchia, Lead Artist

 

"It makes complete sense if you consider all the working-order cars were driven out of Chernarus by survivors fleeing the countryside; in a poor farming community working cars are  kind of uncommon already. The buildings are cracked and in disrepair for the same reason, nobody employed in upkeep, or even no inhabitants some of the time. Here's some pictures of locations in Czechoslovakia which exist without any apocalypses right now, thanks to the Russians invading, building huge pieces of infrastructure which were never used, and leaving them to be abandoned. The apocalypse just contributed to the general shitty look of the place. Rusty cars? Farmers don't splash out on Armorall."

Not only are the random cars just sitting in farms rusty, but also even the military blockades and fortifications that were clearly set up as the result of a disaster. And it's not just that they're working solely on models they re-used from ArmA 2, they added a brand new destroyed BVP-2 (amphibious APC) model that exists within the various bases and locations that are clearly run down.

I also find it really hard to believe that every single car in a 225 square kilometer region would be rusted beyond belief, even if they weren't working. Yes, I know working vehicles are on their way, but to say that every single car would've been driven away is ridiculous.

And even places that should be in well working order are looking run down, the apartment blocks which haven't been cleared out of furnishings still have signs of major disuse, in fact, ALL of new buildings that they've added look run down. Even all of the buildings that you can enter are clearly rotting, not a single building looks like it was spared, which I simply find hard to believe.

I WAS BEING SARCASTIC. They aren't. Taloon and Mountain are both shiny, but neither of them are military, which is what I was pointing out as to his criticism that the military issues "shiny backpacks".

Okay, I apologize for this misconception. I haven't actually bothered to go near any Taloon backpacks in a while so I was just assuming you were making a serious argument.

But there isn't plenty of other unrealistic stuff you could list off. Those are inaccuracies, not gameplay concessions over realism. They will patch them as people complain. This is an alpha. You've only listed weapon inaccuracies and you can bet that if people make complaints they will change some of these things in the interest of realism, unless they can't be bothered.

People have been complaining about weapon inaccuracies since the alpha was released, frequently visiting this forum proves that. Plenty of people advocate for "realistic" calibers and it's been said over and over again that that's not the dev's design plan.

Also, inaccuracies are just as valid of an argument when you're trying to make a simulator. That means no concessions, outside of design/engine/programming limitations should really be made, unless absolutely necessary. Modelling realistic weapons, or at the very least, realistic variations of them, is probably not a huge problem for the devs. In order to improve gameplay and expand the attachment system, they made some concessions.

Realistically speaking you'd be less likely to find some of the weapons ingame than a golden AKM (I'll get to that later). But I highly doubt they're going to remove any weapons from the game.

 

Exactly, yet. it's not a gameplay thing, they're just WORKING ON IT.

When I said yet, I was just implying that it's not completely out of the question that it could one day be in.

 

(From Twitter):

Tom Blagg: "@ctorchia Is there plans to add a .44 Magnum to DayZ?"

Chris Torchia: "@Tom_Blagg not right now - we're gong to stick with the more common 357 mag. I'd sooner prefer to see 5.45mm added."

David Chilcott: "@ctorchia @Tom_Blagg So the answer to that question is Soon."

Chris Torchia: "@davidchilcott15 @Tom_Blagg no, it more of a "maaaybe some day..."

 

It's not impossible, but that doesn't mean that it's probable, either.

 

Except you can't list something as unrealistic they haven't even done yet.

I wasn't actually listing that off as a specific reason, it was more of a follow up to what I'd said before.

 

He never said he was making some of the things you listed completely intentionally, that's just putting words in his mouth.

And when you're listing weapon inaccuracies which don't change the gameplay in any way, such as the Mosin bolt anachronism, they are CLEARLY not intentional, and definitely not a result of concession to gameplay over realism. Maybe they are temporary, maybe they only had certain models and stuff on call. Doesn't mean they won't be changing things down the track.

I would reckon that saying he's said that they're strictly adhering to realism is just as much "putting words in his mouth".

As for whether it affects gameplay, fine, the specific instance that the Mosin has a bent bolt is not going to affect gameplay in of itself, but the fact that the Mosin can accept the LRS and PU scope on the fly, which is not possible in real life without extensive modification, does affect gameplay. The fact that the Mosin's compensator reduces dispersion, does affect gameplay, the fact that deploying a bipod just reduces dispersion but not kick, does affect gameplay. The fact that the MP5-K has rails that it shouldn't have does affect gameplay, and the fact that a pronged flashhider reduces dispersion does affect gameplay. The fact that the AK-101 and AKM can interchange parts does affect gameplay.

But is all of it necessarily realistic? No.

 

I wouldn't try to say that it wasn't intentional, though. Unless you're actually on the dev team, how can you claim to speak for them?

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

"And getting shot will only make my vision go grey?"

Yes. it will only make your vision go grey, and not cause shock and bleeding at all like it does ingame, amirite?

"And who needs hospitals when i can just eat more food to be perfectly fine?"

Yes, you don't need to bandage yourself and get blood transfusions, that's definitely not a feature of DayZ.

" a whole 6-pack of sodas to not die every 10sec"

Yes, I'm sure you die every ten seconds from thirst in the game.

"Wait, why is there a perfect orange in here? This house has been abandoned for months"

Because DayZ isn't set day-z after the apocalypse at all?

"Man, i didn't know the military uses Reflective Bright-Colored backpacks!"

News update: Taloon backpack is now called "military backpack"

"I think I'll eat two bags of rice here"

Gosh, yeah, it isn't possibly because early access games have minor issues, it just must be because the developers HATE realism.

"Yeah the aliens came and destroyed all the army's tanks and EVERY SINGLE CAR before the zombies came"

Yeah I see where you're coming from, it's not like the GAME IS IN ALPHA AND HAS UNRELEASED CONTENT

You're being very, very stupid. Stop it. And work on your abysmal English skills.

 

 

1: I f you get shot, you shouldn't be able to just keep running around shooting while gallons of blood pour out of your face.

2: I never said you don't need Bandages. what I meant by that is all you have to do is Eat a ton of food and Water, and as long as you can avoid being hit for a few minutes, You'll regenerate.

3: Ever heard of being sarcastic? The point is you have to drink way to much, seeing as your dinking an Entire can of soda (Which shouldn't even hydrate you anyway)

4: The game obviously is set at least a few weeks after Day-Zero, Because the Burned-Out cars don't rust overnight, and not that many people could get infected that fast.

5: Mountain Backpacks. 

6: Have they mentioned changing how much food you can eat? It's been that way since the start and it would be incredibly easy to change.

7: I'm not talking about Drivable cars. I'm saying it's ridiculous that ALL the tanks look like they've been sitting if Afghanistan  since '89. And btw, how did they get blown up anyway? 

 

And just FYI, I wrote that at 4am after my dog decided to vomit in my hallway, so excuse my English (Which sucks anyway)

 

All of those things are acceptable for a normal game, but not for a Simulator. they break immersion, and aren't realistic at all.  

 

Edit: Thanks Chaingun. I didn't really look at those Text walls until after I posted. You made pretty much every point I tried to.

Edited August 2, 2014 by thedogfoodyayho

[methr1k2dop3 323]

Have you ever fired a gold plated weapon?

 

Much less, seen one fired?

 

It's a status symbol. They typically don't function well, if at all. Gold is not a functional metal. So, I think Call of Duty should continue to have the market cornered on blinged out weapons.

Its gold PLATED.